Rumor of Escort Bust

[scudman]

I've heard from a couple of escorts that the Dallas police have busted 3 or 4 escorts separately in the past few weeks. The rumor is that the cops acted as clients and had the escorts come to a hotel room, where they were arrested once something incriminating happened.

 

I know that this occurs from time to time, but I hadn't heard of it in Dallas. This crap really scares me. Does anyone know more about these particular incidents, or is it just an unfounded rumor?

[+ deej]

It's possible, but sounds like urban legend to me.

 

Can you find *anything* about it in a reputable news source?

 

This kind of sting is inordinately expensive to pull off and yields very little for the effort. Still, if they really have time on their hands, it may have happened.

[Guest kamikaze483]

It is not at all surprising that the police are using their time to hassle, annoy, and inconvenience we dangerous criminal minds. As you know, we escorts and clients are a serious threat to public wellbeing and must be swiftly and seriously punished. :-)

 

As ridiculous as it is, they are trying their damndest to stop the expendature of money in anyway that is non-taxable. That is why there is such a huge effort "waging war" on prostitution, narcotics distribution, and those other things that are of little threat to anyone not directly involved. If this kind of illicit activity was able to be taxed, there would be little time and effort into prosecuting them.

 

This is, nevertheless, how it works. Nothing is fair. Life's a bitch and then you die, so we have no choice but to either live as they dictate, or research and learn the mistakes that others have made in the past so we are more likely to avoid getting caught.

 

The postings so far have made references to laws, but remember that the laws vary from state to state. As far as I know, prostitution is still illegal in every state, but the entrapment and disclosure laws are different. There are some states that require the disclosure of authority of law enforcement. (Meaning that if you ask if they are a cop, they cannot lie to you. But you may have to phrase the question in a certain way.) The State of Georgia restricts law enforcement from initiating any form of sting operation within three tenths of a mile from any church. It makes little sense, but whenever possible, I try to suggest to a client that they stay at a certain Marroiot Hotel, that is next door to a large church. Ridiculous laws? Surely, but the more you know about the ridiculous laws, the better chance you have of merely avoiding the issue entirely.

 

And I always follow my instincts. They are rarely wrong, and tend to alert me to anything that doesn't "feel right." I went on a hotel call one time and heard more than one voice in the room, and some kind of fuzzy static. Whether it was the television or something else mattered little and I took my little whore ass and hoofed it on home. I figured out later that it was indeed a sting operation that took down 6 other guys the same night. I would rather lose the money and dissapoint a client than go to jail. What would my mamma say? LOL!!

 

The only things in life you will regret are the ones you don't do. So THINK!! Be SAFE, SMART, and SKEPTICAL.

 

"Better safe than sorry."

 

Scott

"Carpe Diem" (Seize the day, unless its gonna get you busted :-))

[buttnovice]

yes. . . beware! A few weeks ago I made an appointment with an SF gent with an AOL profile and independent web site. He was visiting my city. When I went to his hotel room, I heard multiple male voices inside. It was at the hour of our appointment, so really doubt it was a roomate/travel companion situation. Needless to say, I walked. It didn't feel right; and then isn't that what it's all about?

[vers7]

I have a friend in Dallas who indicated that he had heard the same thing. In any event, in Las Vegas, the police regularly set up a hotel room (with camaras) and set up dates with female escorts and bust them. Within the past year they did the same with male escorts for the first time. Las Vegas is fairly liberal; although prostitution is illegal. (Many people don't realize that.) There is no reason to believe that other police forces would not do the same thing.

[Justice]

A couple of months ago, there was a fairly credible post that described the horrifying details of an internet based sting of a male escort at the Marriot Marquis in New York. (The Marriot is directly across the street from the Gaiety) The report was so credible and so horrifying that I posted a warning on the Muscle Service site. One of the people who responded to that post described an extraordinarily large police presence near both the Marriot and the Gaiety around the time of the alleged incident. Although there was nothing in the press, I'm convinced that something happened at the Marriot. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if one or more escorts did in fact get busted. (Also, Jason Reardone recently described an incident that made him so suspicious that he decided not to keep a scheduled date. He noted in his post -- and during his chat -- that something that he observed upon arriving at a hotel made him decide to trust his instincts. I think that he was right to the hell out of there.) Unfortunately, people can and do get arrested from time to time. Everyone needs to be careful and every report needs to be treated as credible. Sigh!

[Guest Theron]

Hi :-)

 

It's not only possible, but has been happening. The Internet changed the way prostitutes and those who wish to hire them communicate, and has grown rapidly over the past 5 years. It has just taken the vice squad a little time to catch up. Within the past year this has changed, and the vice squads in many cities have been cracking down on on-line prostitution. As a matter of fact, in Southern California, the police department issued a press statement to the gay press that they would be going after on-line prostitutes.

 

In response to the arrests, I am now a part of a project. The project seeks to gather information about the arrests that occur so we can better understand the methods of selection, etc. Say for example the vice squad in Chicago decided to crack down. Would they be more likely to contact someone who was in an AOL chat room, or are they actually investigating the various web sites that promote escorts? This is just one of many things we hope to learn, but we won't have any answers for at least 1 1/2 years, because we must first gather information and data about arrests over a period of time.

 

So far, the arrests have been happening in hotels. The vice cop is in the room with the escort, and the vice squad in the adjoring room. They tape the conversation, and then arrest the escort.

 

As we all know, escorting is not illegal, but the exchange for sex and money are. Escorts have to be cautious with first time clients. Especially those who want to meet in hotels. It is really important to be clear, when talking to first time clients, that you are selling your time and companionship, and not have conversations with regard to providing any type of sexual service. I limit conversations to speaking in general terms about things I enjoy. There is a difference between telling someone what you enjoy, and contracting to perform specific services.

 

Another tip for escorts, if you have first time clients who want to meet in a hotel room, get the room number they will be in before you arrive, and arrive about 30 mins early. Hang out in the hall, and wait to see if you notice any activity between the room the client is in the the one immediately next to it. If you do then go downstairs, call the client and cancel the appointment.

 

So far, in the "Internet" arrests we have seen, the vice squad is playing by the rules. This does not mean they always do, but so far they are trying to get a clean and documented arrest.

 

Hugs,

 

Theron

Based Out of Chicago

http://theronb.homestead.com/files/home.html

[Guest Theron]

Oh, and one more thing...the police are NOT obligated to admit to you that they are a police officer if you ask them. The law only requires a police officer to reveal his identity to you at the time he executes his authority, and that folks is as he makes the arrest and reads your rights.

 

Hugs,

 

Theron

Based Out of Chicago

http://theronb.homestead.com/files/home.html

[Paul Revere]

>As ridiculous as it is, they

>are trying their damndest to

>stop the expendature of money

>in anyway that is non-taxable.

> That is why there

>is such a huge effort

>"waging war" on prostitution, narcotics

>distribution, and those other things

>that are of little threat

>to anyone not directly involved.

> If this kind of

>illicit activity was able to

>be taxed, there would be

>little time and effort into

>prosecuting them.

>

 

Sorry, but I just couldn't let this remark pass unchallenged, and I fear we may get off-topic and start a new ugly debating thread.

 

I agreee that going after escort/client relationships the way we discuss them on this board seems like a foolish waste of public expense on essentially victimless crimes.

 

BUT to equate that with narcotics trafficing is a big leap. Narcotics trafficing and narcotics use in this country are major sources of crime at all levels. Many muggings, robberies, car thefts and such are often related to folks supporting their habits. I do not see getting someone addicted to narcoticas as a victimless crime. The new addict is a victim, and many of the ways that support their new habits create a whole new set of victims. I don't view narcotics use as recreational. It is much more complex and damaging than that.

 

Now going back to the original subject, my friends in Montreal are much more enlightened on this subjet (sort of). It is not illegal for an escort to go to your hotel room and exchange sex for money, but oddly enough it is illegal for you to go to his home and exchange sex for money. If you go to his house, then he is running a house of prostitution, which is illegal. Exchanging sex for money in a hotel room is not illegal. C'est la vie!

[Guest cmp]

> "[...] prostitution, narcotics distribution, and those other things that are of little threat [...]"

 

Seeing an escort is no threat to society, but don't bundle the second item into this package.

[Guest pickwick]

A word to the wise. The penalties for prostitution are in most cases not severe. But the act of advising others how to commit crimes without being caught or the act of organizing the efforts of others for that purpose can be the basis of much more serious charges for which the penalties are severe.

[Guest Theron]

>Now going back to the original

>subject, my friends in Montreal

>are much more enlightened on

>this subjet (sort of). It

>is not illegal for an

>escort to go to your

>hotel room and exchange sex

>for money, but oddly enough

>it is illegal for you

>to go to his home

>and exchange sex for money.

> If you go to

>his house, then he is

>running a house of prostitution,

>which is illegal. Exchanging

>sex for money in a

>hotel room is not illegal.

> C'est la vie!

 

Hiya :-)

 

Isn't Montreal in Canada? I do not know if you are aware of this or not, but prostitution has been legalized in Canada. In the United States it is illegal to exhcange sex for money in a hotel.

 

Hugs,

 

Theron

Based Out of Chicago

http://theronb.homestead.com/files/home.html

[Guest Theron]

Hiya :-)

 

In Illinois the law is the same for both soliciting and engaging in prostitution --it is a misdemeanor the first two times you are arrested and convicted for either offense. After two convictions subsequent arrests are charged as a felony.

 

Hugs :-)

 

Theron

Based Out of Chicago

http://theronb.homestead.com/files/home.html

[Guest pickwick]

>Hiya :-)

>

>In Illinois the law is the

>same for both soliciting and

>engaging in prostitution --it is

>a misdemeanor the first two

>times you are arrested and

>convicted for either offense.

>After two convictions subsequent arrests

>are charged as a felony.

 

 

That's interesting. But I think you'll find that conspiracy and obstructing justice are always felonies.

[Bilbo]

My dearest Picky, You really should specify what you mean as "not severe" in terms of punishment for escorting. There can be all sorts of peripheral damage that doesn't necessarily show up when you're trying to look at the prostitution laws, per se. My lawyer and my judge were surprised and understanding about the fact that I could lose not only my income as an escort, but also my license to practice legitimate massage, although the closest it had come to being involved in my entrapment was that I suggested to the vice cop that he looked like he needed a massage and should contact me for my regular "day job" as well. So for that reason, and possibly some others, the judge did not find me guilty, promising me that my nose would be clean after my probation with the deferred adjudication he handed me. However, the state health laws made it clear that, nonguilty as I was, a deferred adjudication was quite enough here in Texas to mandate revocation of my massage license. Also, the sexual nature of the offence caused me a less happy situation in public service than it might have been, and on my cynical days, I am glad that I am not a convicted sexual offender - I don't have to report my whereabouts to any police station. So, please, Pickwick, these boys are in near enough danger already, they don't really need you pointing out to them that they may be handing themselves even more.

 

and, please, men, do pay very close attention to those flag feelings. There were flags on my play, and I felt them, but I allowed other considerations to keep me walking into it. And yet, this board does suggest that clients are very clear about what they want to do before they even hire us. And also there are many clients who if they can't have you as immediately as possible they'll go to someone else. (There are also those hateful types who run races.) Where in merciful Heaven do you get that extra half hour to stand around in the motel/hotel hallway with noone noticing??

[Guest pickwick]

>My dearest Picky, You really should

>specify what you mean as

>"not severe" in terms of

>punishment for escorting.

 

 

Okay. By "not severe" I mean a jail term of less than thirty days. Loss of a massage license and community service are not even on my radar screen as far as penalties go.

 

 

So, please,

>Pickwick, these boys are in

>near enough danger already, they

>don't really need you

>pointing out to them that

>they may be handing themselves

>even more.

>

 

 

You didn't understand the conversation so I'll put it another way. The penalties for prostitution are minor. The loss of a massage license, community service and even a day or two in the county jail are nothing compared to the penalties that the criminal justice system metes out for many other offenses. Another post in this thread suggested that prostitutes could organize to monitor police activity with the object of learning how to evade the police. That could give rise to some criminal penalties compared to which the ones you are talking about are nothing. I'm simply trying to point out how foolish it is to commit a serious crime so that you can avoid arrest for a minor one. If a cop signaled you to pull over because you ran a red light would you ram him with your car to get away? Same thing.

[Guest Theron]

Hi :-)

 

It is not illegal to do research about arrests, or to publish the results of the research. This type of reseach has been being done for years, for a multitude of reasons.

 

One reason one might reseach arrests are to better understand the methods to learn if entrapment is involved.

 

Hugs,

 

Theron

Based Out of Chicago

http://theronb.homestead.com/files/home.html

[Guest pickwick]

>Hi :-)

>

>It is not illegal to do

>research about arrests, or to

>publish the results of the

>research. This type of reseach

>has been being done for

>years, for a multitude of

>reasons.

>

 

Whether such actions are legal or not depends entirely on the intentions of those involved as demonstrated by the evidence. I can assure you that on the basis of what you have already posted on this board, if you follow through with that plan a prosecutor would have no trouble at all getting an indictment. I'm not responsible for you and I don't want to spend any more of my time trying to persuade you not to do something that may cause problems for you, but not for me. So go ahead and do whatever you want to do.

[Guest Theron]

Hiya :-)

 

Well, consider this. As I think many of us are aware, the police have engagned in sting operations for years in attempts to arrest gay men for having sex in bathrooms and public parks. As a result of those activities, many people have conducted research about those arrests, and informed people about sting operations in progress. These reports have been published from time to time on Internet, but even before that in the gay press for at least the last twenty years, possibly longer. Can you give me one example of an individual who has been charged with obstructing justice for informing people of these sting operations, or telling people about typical behaviors of vice cops or how to avoid arrest?

 

Hugs,

 

Theron

Based Out of Chicago

http://theronb.homestead.com/files/home.html

[Guest TexasTaurus]

While it is true that anything can happen here in Texas, I have not heard of this particular bust.

 

I have talked with a couple of "street hustlers" in the last few weeks that have been busted. But not anything from escorts, at least not here in Dallas.

 

Now in Houston, yes.... There have been "several" busts in Houston and they "are" using Hotel rooms to make the busts so this kind of thing going on in Dallas would not surprise me.

[Guest pickwick]

>Can you give

>me one example of an

>individual who has been charged

>with obstructing justice for informing

>people of these sting operations,

>or telling people about typical

>behaviors of vice cops or

>how to avoid arrest?

>

 

I can recall reading of two such incidents during the past ten years, one in Seattle and the other in L.A. But as I said, there is no benefit to me in trying to persuade you so I won't bother. Do what you want. Just don't complain about the consequences later.

[Guest Theron]

Hi :-)

 

Interesting that you should say you know of two such situations. Let me tell you want I did prior to escorting. I was the executive director of a state wide organization that represented the civil rights for every gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender person in one state. I have not heard of any people who were charged with obstruction of justice for the reasons you have stated, and spoke with some friends of mine, (one who happens to be an assistant States Attorney, another an openly gay State Representative, and two activists, that combined have more than 30 years experience in the civil rights movement --one who works for a national organization in a position of leadership.) I also asked four other friends of mine, who happen to be publishers of gay weekly's, (one in Missouri, one in central Illinois, and two in Chicago), and have published articles in the past that provided details of active sting operations, and also informed people how they could avoid arrest. They were not aware of anyone who has been charged with obstruction of justice for this reason, either. Additionally, the publishers of the gay weekly's, despie having high profiles, with readership for two of the publications at 30,000 weekly, have not reported ever being charged with obstruction of justice. This is not to say it could not happen, but it would be highly irregular, and irregular enough that I know quite a few people who would be interested in learnig more about it. If you could be so kind as to provide the dates, names and locaions of individuals who were charged, I would greatly appreciate it. It would be a matter of public record, so you could easily provide that information with out revealing any information that would be considered confidential.

 

Thank you,

 

Theron :-)

Based Out of Chicago

http://theronb.homestead.com/files/home.html

[Bilbo]

The loss of half of your income from something you are good at and have been doing for 16 years is minor??? I was about to apologize for having overreacted, but if you have two incomes, wanta give me one? (Is that anything like, get a life!?)

[Guest pickwick]

There are some users of this message board who will promise not to continue a discussion and will then continue it anyway because they can't resist having the last word. That seems childish and petty to me so I will not do that. If you would like to have one of your friends who is an attorney email me privately I will provide him with the names of the journals in which the articles I referred to appear. Other than that, I have said all I care to say.

[Guest pickwick]

>The loss of half of your

>income from something you are

>good at and have been

>doing for 16 years is

>minor??? I was about to

>apologize for having overreacted, but

>if you have two incomes,

>wanta give me one? (Is

>that anything like, get a

>life!?)

 

It's very minor compared to some of the other things that could happen. Very, very minor. You were lucky.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you knew that what you were doing is a crime, didn't you? What did you think you would get if you were caught, a round of applause? I'm sorry if that sounds insensitive, but I never know how to sound sympathetic when someone does something that he knows is likely to lead to trouble and then complains when the trouble shows up.