Rumor of Escort Bust

[Boston Guy]

Theron -

 

Forgive me for jumping in here, but I'd like to make a couple of minor observations.

 

First, if someone has information that you'd like to have and that information may be important to you, being nice to that person -- or at least cordial -- would be the approach most people would generally choose. Taking an argumentative approach would seem counter-productive.

 

Second, attorneys often devise procedures for transferring information or documents that can seem convoluted to the rest of us. However, there are generally sound reasons underlying those procedures. It's far easier and more efficient to simply follow the procedure than to fight it.

 

Pickwick said that he had a couple of references he was willing to share. He thought those references were germane to what you were doing. Since he seems to be pretty bright, there's at least a chance that he's right.

 

He said he would share that information with you by providing it to attorney. He asked to have that attorney contact him via email. It's a reasonable assumption that he would verify that attorney's credentials before providing the information.

 

I am not an attorney and I don't claim to understand the risk he perceives. Nor is it important that I do. It's enough that he perceives a risk to himself (through, I imagine, some sort of conspiracy theory, but that's just a highly-uneducated guess).

 

He is offering to provide the information in a way that he believes does not present a risk to himself. Why not simply follow the procedure he offered to you and have your attorney email him instead of just arguing over what are really pretty petty points?

[Guest Theron]

Hi :-)

 

Thank's, Boston Guy, for sharing.  I think you are a reasonable guy from everything I have observed, so your opinions carry weight with me.

 

This all started, when I shared being a part of a project that would help escorts avoid arrest.  Pickwick was quick to doom it with his statements of legal charges for "obstruction of justice."  What resulted was healthy discussion about that possibility.  I provided quite a bit of information about why I did not believe it was obstruction of justice, and in response Pickwick persistently claimed it was, but without citing anything.  Finally, I asked him to provide some examples of people who have been charged with obstruction of justice for the reasons he stated. 

 

There is one thing that simply does not set right with me.  I can think of no reason why the information could not have been provided here, can you?  There has never been a reason to involve anyone else.  Posting the references would not have violated anyone's confidentiality, since it has already appeared in print, and arrests and convictions are public information.

 

I have to trust my instinct.  Sadly, it tells me that Pickwick has been spreading gloom and doom for personal reasons, and that he has been fronting.  I believe this is why he has complicated what would otherwise be the passing of basic information with ease. Please, think about it.  Why wouldn't a reasonable person just say, "oh, here are the references?"

 

Hugs,

 

Theron

Based Out of Chicago

http://theronb.homestead.com/files/home.html

[Bilbo]

Picky,

Dwelling on this subject is not healthy for me. So, I am going to be happy that you met me what you seem to think is half way. I'm still going to pretend that while you are rejoicing that nothng worse happened to me, you do realize that losing one's livelihood is a pretty bad thing.

 

I am sorry to hear that if the wrong sorts of people, by which I mean the vice cops, - well, one can find good people anywhere, but if thery're there and focusing on this subject, they are misguided - if they spent a lot of taxpayer money on nabbing you for something that is none of their business and did terribly mean things to you, I am very sorry to hear that you wouldn't share it with us here. I, for one, would relish the opportunity to morally support you through such a crisis, even as much as I have sometimes hated your bleeding guts in the past. None of my brothers is perfect, but they are all still family.

[Bilbo]

Theron, While I basically agree with you, it seems clear to me that Pickwick is afraid that the very charge which he sought to warn you against, obstruction of justice, could be brought against him if he helped you. Or at least aiding and abetting obstruction of justice. To a lawyer, I can see how that would be career threatening. Although Pickwick doesn't feel that the loss of a career is a major thing, he still feels that it would be important enough to try not to do it. What I do not understand is why he doesn't send you his email adress privately, either through your inbox or by going to your website and sending it from there? I think that he wants to know that your lawyer has seen this site and is therefore implicating himself by sending an email through it. Therefore, should your lawyer happen to recognize Pickwick's name, etc, Picky would still be protected by the same sorts of protection which protect any semicloseted person who runs into another semicloseted person in a gay bar. I hope that it is that because the alternatives I can dream up are much less friendly.

[Boston Guy]

Ummm... he has provided an email address at hotmail... just click on the email icon (not the internal email icon, the other one).

[Guest Theron]

>Ummm... he has provided an email

>address at hotmail... just click

>on the email icon (not

>the internal email icon, the

>other one).

 

Hi :-)

 

Yes, I noticed that. In response I sent to him the firm name, name, business telephone number and e-mail address of an attorney that he could provide the information to. And since Pickwick raised the issue that he would profide the information only if he was satisified with the attny's credentials, to facalitate a smooth exchange of information, the attorney I referred him to is a lead partner at his firm and also a law professor, and has been an Associate Judge. The attorney has also agreed that it is not necessary for Pickwick to provide identifying about himself inorder to transfer the information he says he has. Sooooo, Pickwick has been provided a way to easily exchange this information with someone who has excellent credentials in a totally confidential way. He has elected not to do that, though -- just as he elected not to post the journal references here, and there is no reason why he could not have done that, it was never necessary in the first place to involve an outside party to exchange this public information. Pickwick, who is known as nothing but a handle here had noting personally to lose by posting public information about the arrests and convictions he says he knows of for obstruction of justice.

 

Frankly, I believe that Pickwick devised this unnecessary and elaborate way to comunicate basic public information to kill communication, not facilitate it. Maybe he thought I would not be able to provide an attorney with adequate credentials, I don't know? I believe he has made claims, and has been spreading gloom and doom to cast doubt on a project I am working on for personal reasons, and without necessary support back those claims up.

 

Ask yourself, if he had information, and he sincerey wanted to help, and that information could be easily communicate...then why, if it was his desire to do that, did he simply not just provide the informaiton? Possibly because it does not exist in the first place. Possibly he never wanted to provide any helpful infromation, only pick at me and spread gloom and doom for personal reasons. Now that he has been asked to come forward, if he can't, well he loses credibility -- so of course, the logical thing to do then would be to complicate it all further, which is exactly what he has done -- and quite unnecessarily. Think about it. If you had basic simple and public information you wanted to provide to help someone wouldn't you have just merely done that in the easiest and fastest way possible? I think most of us would.

 

 

Theron

Based Out of Chicago

http://theronb.homestead.com/files/home.html

[Guest curtenz]

>He is offering to provide the

>information in a way that

>he believes does not present

>a risk to himself.

>Why not simply follow the

>procedure he offered to you

>and have your attorney email

>him instead of just arguing

>over what are really pretty

>petty points?

 

Why not? What I see here is a pattern in which this guy gets into screaming and namecalling fights with anyone who says anything he doesn't like. This is the second time he did the same thing in the past two weeks. Someone offers to provide some information you might be able to use as a favor and you call him a liar and other names because he won't provide it the precise way you want him to? What kind of jerk would do that? I always assumed escorts might not be the most well adjusted people in the world but some of the people I am seeing on this website go way past anything I imagined.

[Guest pickwick]

>you do

>realize that losing one's livelihood

>is a pretty bad thing.

 

Frankly I didn't realize that your livelihood depends on a state license to give massages. You are assuming that I know a lot more about you than I do. I'm not even sure what town you live in, just that it is somewhere in Texas.

 

>I am very sorry to

>hear that you wouldn't share

>it with us here. I,

>for one, would relish the

>opportunity to morally support you

>through such a crisis

 

 

LOL! This website is the last place I would go for moral support in any situation. If I can't even offer some information I ran across that might be relevant to a subject being discussed without being screamed at by some hooker, why would I even consider coming here to ask for sympathy? The kind of people who come here can't even discuss arranging a party without yelling at each other (see bluboy's latest thread).

 

>even

>as much as I have

>sometimes hated your bleeding guts

>in the past.

 

See what I mean?

 

Not that I owe you or anyone else here an explanation of anything I say or do, but the fact is that during the past ten years two friends and colleagues of mine have been prosecuted by the feds in unrelated situations. Each was prosecuted because of some peripheral involvement in an enterprise that the feds deemed to have involved some unlawful behavior. One of them ran into this situation as a result of providing his services free of charge to Japanese-Americans whose property was confiscated when they were interned by our government during WWII. Both men were ultimately exonerated, but only after long legal battles that were draining both financially and emotionally. Very few people who have not had a lot of experience with our criminal justice system, and one prostitution bust does not qualify as a lot of experience in my book, have any idea how easy it is for the innocent to be caught up in one of these things or any idea of the damage they can suffer even if they win. You may think I'm paranoid, but that just shows how little you know. I hope you never have to learn more about this subject than you know now. I'm going to make sure I don't.

[Guest Theron]

>Why not? What I see

>here is a pattern in

>which this guy gets into

>screaming and namecalling fights with

>anyone who says anything he

>doesn't like. This is

>the second time he did

>the same thing in the

>past two weeks. Someone

>offers to provide some information

>you might be able to

>use as a favor and

>you call him a liar

>and other names because he

>won't provide it the precise

>way you want him to?

> What kind of jerk

>would do that? I

>always assumed escorts might not

>be the most well adjusted

>people in the world but

>some of the people I

>am seeing on this website

>go way past anything I

>imagined.

 

Oh, you do not seem so well adjused yourself, curtenz, lol. I think we can all recall the many lovely things you have said to others. You can always be counted on to come rushing in and make tasteless statements. Why I can already think of three situations you have done it. For the record, Pickwick didn't exactly "offer" to provide any information. No, instead, he presistently offered gloom and doom about the project without citing any reasons, other that charges of obstruction of justice being filed. It was only when he was finally asked to provide something of substance, a basis for the claim, he mentioned knowing of two situations, and devised an elaborate method to transfer it, that could not even be satisifed by contacting a man who is an attorney, law professor, and former associate judge, who offered him absolute discretion.

 

Theron

Based Out of Chicago

http://theronb.homestead.com/files/home.html

[Guest Theron]

>Not that I owe you or

>anyone else here an explanation

>of anything I say or

>do, but the fact is

>that during the past ten

>years two friends and colleagues

>of mine have been prosecuted

>by the feds in unrelated

>situations. Each was prosecuted

>because of some peripheral involvement

>in an enterprise that the

>feds deemed to have involved

>some unlawful behavior. One

>of them ran into this

>situation as a result of

>providing his services free of

>charge to Japanese-Americans whose property

>was confiscated when they were

>interned by our government during

>WWII. Both men were

>ultimately exonerated, but only after

>long legal battles that were

>draining both financially and emotionally.

> Very few people who

>have not had a lot

>of experience with our criminal

>justice system, and one prostitution

>bust does not qualify as

>a lot of experience in

>my book, have any idea

>how easy it is for

>the innocent to be caught

>up in one of these

>things or any idea of

>the damage they can suffer

>even if they win.

>You may think I'm paranoid,

>but that just shows how

>little you know. I

>hope you never have to

>learn more about this subject

>than you know now.

>I'm going to make sure

>I don't.

 

I am sincerely sorry to learn of the unfortunate experiences of your friends. Fortunately, they were successful in the end. I do understand though what they must have gone through, even if they were innocent, and I am confident it was not pleasant.

 

Yes, I do feel, as a result of that situation you might be being a little paranoid. Still, it can be difficult to forget unpleasant experiences. I do hope that you will try, because being overly cautious in the extreme can't be very good either. Someone once told me: "Life is short, pain is temporary, rewards are forever -- risk it!" Although, I do understand, that is not always easy to do :-)

 

Thank you for providing this information. It certainly helps me to better understand your reservations. I hope you can see that without providing further information about the reservations how they did appear unreasonable.

 

Now that a new light has been cast upon this, I would like to offer you my sincere apologies. I've learned something valuable from this situation.

 

Theron

Based Out of Chicago

http://theronb.homestead.com/files/home.html

[MiamiLooker]

I've never read Aaron Lawrence's book on escorting, but I'd bet it must have a chapter or two discussing escorting and the law. I don't believe either he or his publisher have been arrested.

[Guest cassius]

>LOL! This website is the

>last place I would go

>for moral support in any

>situation. If I can't

>even offer some information I

>ran across that might be

>relevant to a subject being

>discussed without being screamed at

>by some hooker, why would

>I even consider coming here

>to ask for sympathy?

>The kind of people who

>come here can't even discuss

>arranging a party without yelling

>at each other (see bluboy's

>latest thread).

 

I think it is really sad if a few people use insults and personal attacks to discourage others from posting thoughts and opinions they do not like. This has been going on since I started following this message board and I think it is a real shame because it discourages the frank exchange of opinions and information that is the whole reason for having forums like this in the first place. There are some of us who follow this message board but do not often post because we do not want to put up with shrill personal attacks and name-calling from a few people who seem to have nothing better to do with their time. I have really enjoyed some of the things you have said here so I hope a few bad apples will not discourage you from continuing.

[Guest Theron]

>I think it is really sad

>if a few people use

>insults and personal attacks to

>discourage others from posting thoughts

>and opinions they do not

>like. This has been

>going on since I started

>following this message board and

>I think it is a

>real shame because it discourages

>the frank exchange of opinions

>and information that is the

>whole reason for having forums

>like this in the first

>place. There are some

>of us who follow this

>message board but do not

>often post because we do

>not want to put up

>with shrill personal attacks and

>name-calling from a few people

>who seem to have nothing

>better to do with their

>time. I have really

>enjoyed some of the things

>you have said here so

>I hope a few bad

>apples will not discourage you

>from continuing.

 

Hiya :-)

 

I do believe it was Pickwick, in the thread "Another Loss," who just said a few days ago, when the issue of negitivity in posts was raised, that he valued those types of exchanges because there were "entertaining." He actually encourage those type of posts to continue, and he, himself, has been insulting in posts with others in the past. Just food for thought before you jump in with both feet :-)

 

Theron

Based Out of Chicago

http://theronb.homestead.com/files/home.html

[Guest cassius]

>I do believe it was Pickwick,

>in the thread "Another Loss,"

>who just said a few

>days ago, when the issue

>of negitivity in posts was

>raised, that he valued those

>types of exchanges because there

>were "entertaining." He actually

>encourage those type of posts

>to continue, and he, himself,

>has been insulting in posts

>with others in the past.

> Just food for thought

>before you jump in with

>both feet

 

I read the thread you mentioned above and that is not what I saw at all. I am not going to address any further posts to you because I do not want to be part of this name-calling game you seem to enjoy so much. You are free to play this game all you want to but you are not going to suck me into it. I just hope that you and the others who do it don't turn off other people who really have something to say.

[Guest Theron]

>I read the thread you mentioned

>above and that is not

>what I saw at all.

> I am not going

>to address any further posts

>to you because I do

>not want to be part

>of this name-calling game you

>seem to enjoy so much.

> You are free to

>play this game all you

>want to but you are

>not going to suck me

>into it. I just

>hope that you and the

>others who do it don't

>turn off other people who

>really have something to say.

 

Hi :-)

 

I suggest you go back and read messages #53, 56 and 58 in the tread Another Loss. In those threads the discussion was between Pickwick and me about the negitivity of posts, and Pickwick made his feelings clear. He did admit to finding them entertaining, and compared some of he more pleasant exchanges as "boring as reading soup lables." In message #58 when I said to him, "In life we get an opportunity, in our exchanges with people, to try and bring out the best in others, or to attempt to tear them down. There really is no special skill required to tear another person down -- even a child knows how to antagonize and bully others. The real skill, and class, has always been how to influence the lives of others in positive ways," Pickwick replied, "In my world, which I suspect is the same as his, the skill he has is sought after."

 

And by the way, I am not upset with you :-) I just have a different opinion, that is all.

 

Theron

Based Out of Chicago

http://theronb.homestead.com/files/home.html

[Guest pickwick]

>I have really

>enjoyed some of the things

>you have said here so

>I hope a few bad

>apples will not discourage you

>from continuing.

 

Thanks for your kind words. I think we need to differentiate between those who make provocative remarks about the sorts of issues this forum is meant to discuss and those who make provocative remarks about other posters in an attempt to silence those with whom they disagree. I enjoy the former but share your distaste for the latter. I for one will continue to share my thoughts and opinions with anyone who cares to take the time to read them, while trying to avoid big-bandwidth pissing contests with those who just want to vent their ample spleen.

[Bilbo]

oops, sorry

[Guest Theron]

>Thanks for your kind words.

>I think we need to

>differentiate between those who make

>provocative remarks about the sorts

>of issues this forum is

>meant to discuss and those

>who make provocative remarks about

>other posters in an attempt

>to silence those with whom

>they disagree. I enjoy

>the former but share your

>distaste for the latter.

>I for one will continue

>to share my thoughts and

>opinions with anyone who cares

>to take the time to

>read them, while trying to

>avoid big-bandwidth pissing contests with

>those who just want to

>vent their ample spleen.

 

Ahhh, the classic argument often presented by a few posters who share a similar style to you Pickwick. When all else fails, raise the issue what type of discussion is appropriate for the forum. That appears to be oppressive behavior, by the way -- an attempt to decide for everyone what is appropriate, and a way to look down your nose, and there by discourage, others from freely sharing their opinions. In case you have not noticed this forum has multiple purposes. The lounge, incidentally, has been set up for people to discuss anything, so raising the issue of relevancy only makes you look silly. But, I think most would agree, a discussion about busting escorts, and debate about if those who gather and publish inofrmation to help escorts avoid arrest are guilty of "obstructing justice" are relevant to the forum.

 

 

Theron

Based Out of Chicago

http://theronb.homestead.com/files/home.html