no show escort for weekend trip

[woodlawn]

RE: Nails, Oxes and Obligations

 

>woodlawn:

>

>I am sure cougar will appreciate the sympathy and

>understanding shown in your posting.

 

I really don't care about that. I do hope he knows good advice when he sees it. The problems clients have when they forget that hiring an escort is purely a business arrangment is an endlessly repeated theme on this message board. Cougar is not the first poster to show up here with a tale of woe on this issue, he's more like the 500th.

 

> It is clear that you have

>hired many escorts and

>quickly overcome any temptation to become emotional involved.

>Good for you.

 

I can't take credit for overcoming any such temptation, as I have never felt any.

[woodlawn]

RE: Nails, Oxes and Obligations

 

>I have to say that seems a bit cold

 

The fact that you even say that shows you STILL have a problem understanding the difference between a business relationship and a personal relationship.

 

>your points are valid. When you're with someone sexually,

>especially more than once, some of us (me included) can't help

>but feel an emotional connection with that person.

 

Then maybe you shouldn't do it -- did that ever occur to you? If you had a problem with alcohol would it make sense for you to go to parties where there is a lot of heavy drinking?

 

 

>lot of clients are going for the WARMTH too (or at least

>feeling of warmth)...not just the sex. After you've been

>around someone long enough who's been warm to you, you can't

>help but feel a mutual affection exists sometimes.

 

You don't seem to get it. People who can't deal with the basic principle that a hooker is seeing you for the money and the money alone should not be hiring hookers. Because they are bound to get hurt at some point. If you learn nothing else from reading this board, learn that.

 

 

>People are often VERY illogical creatures, especially when

>looking for sex or emotional warmth, so saying that it's silly

>for people to get emotionally attached to escorts seems a

>little...well...silly...to me.

 

All you are doing is repeating that some people can't deal with the fundamental nature of a relationship with a hooker. And I repeat that such people should not be hiring. If they do, they will inevitably cause problems for themselves or the hooker or both.

[guptasa1]

RE: Nails, Oxes and Obligations

 

>>I have to say that seems a bit cold

>

>The fact that you even say that shows you STILL have a problem

>understanding the difference between a business relationship

>and a personal relationship.

 

Excuse me, but why does saying something sounds cold indicate I have a problem? I'm perfectly aware hiring an escort is a business transaction...but because it's such a personal service, it DOES move into a more personal space than other things, at least for some of us. In fact, other business relationships sometimes have personal aspects to them, but this one especially does (or can anyways).

 

>>your points are valid. When you're with someone sexually,

>>especially more than once, some of us (me included) can't

>help

>>but feel an emotional connection with that person.

>

>Then maybe you shouldn't do it -- did that ever occur to you?

>If you had a problem with alcohol would it make sense for you

>to go to parties where there is a lot of heavy drinking?

 

Who said that's a problem? I certainly don't feel emotional closeness with someone I'm having sex with to be a problem. Your drinking analogy doesn't work, because that deals with addiction. While escorts certainly can be addicting (and truthfully I do have to be careful of that), I don't see how it relates - what's wrong with liking and feeling close to an escort you're with as long as you're realistic about it (don't expect unrealistic things or assume the close relationship will exist after the appointment)?

 

>>lot of clients are going for the WARMTH too (or at least

>>feeling of warmth)...not just the sex. After you've been

>>around someone long enough who's been warm to you, you can't

>>help but feel a mutual affection exists sometimes.

>

>You don't seem to get it. People who can't deal with the

>basic principle that a hooker is seeing you for the money and

>the money alone should not be hiring hookers. Because they

>are bound to get hurt at some point. If you learn nothing

>else from reading this board, learn that.

 

I "get it" just fine. I know escorts see people for the money. I disagree that it's necessarily for the money alone or some of them would have chosen another profession (I'm sure it is only for cash in some cases, but there are also escorts out there who seem to legitimately enjoy what they do as well, so I think in some cases they legitimately like getting to know clients).

 

At any rate, sure clients who get too emotionally attached get hurt, which is why client who are prone to this have to be careful and not let their feelings run away with them so as to minimize any pain they do experience (and there likely will be some as you said). This is still completely different than not having feelings or emotions toward an escort at all - it just needs to be kept in check. And as for regulars, I don't think it's unreasonable for clients to expect the escorts treat them with respect and genuine friendliness. I also don't think it's unreasonable to hope after several visits with an escort a geniune friendly affection develops.

 

>>People are often VERY illogical creatures, especially whn

>>looking for sex or emotional warmth, so saying that it's

>silly

>>for people to get emotionally attached to escorts seems a

>>little...well...silly...to me.

>

>All you are doing is repeating that some people can't deal

>with the fundamental nature of a relationship with a hooker.

>And I repeat that such people should not be hiring. If they

>do, they will inevitably cause problems for themselves or the

>hooker or both.

 

No, I'm explaining not everyone shares your point of view. Quite frankly, if you were to eliminate people who are looking for something emotional too in an escort experience, I would doubt you'd have all that many clients left. I'm sure there are those out there like yourself who look for only sex and feel nothing at all for any escorts, but I'm not like that, and I'm glad I'm not. I think from reading these forums and reviews here I'm far from alone in that too.

 

There's a big difference between, say, feeling affection for an escort during an encounter...and getting obsessed and stalking the escort afterwards. Not all or even MOST people who feel something emotionally for an escort are going to start causing problems - they respect the person and realize the escort encounter for what it is and move on. But they can still enjoy it when it does happen.

 

>I can't take credit for overcoming any such temptation, as I have

>never felt any.

 

This just reaffirms what I've said. If you have no temptation to be emotionally connected with an escort, likewise I don't think you have much of an understanding of what it's like to want that closeness as part of the experience. It's not the same as wanting a long-term permanent relationship or being obsessed with someone - it's simply wanting to feel cared about when you DO spend time with the escort.

[woodlawn]

RE: Nails, Oxes and Obligations

 

>Excuse me, but why does saying something sounds cold indicate

>I have a problem?

 

Because that statement doesn't make any sense in reference to a business transaction. A business transaction isn't about emotion.

 

 

>Who said that's a problem?

 

I did. And as evidence I can point to this thread and quite a few others in which clients complain about getting their feelings hurt by escorts. Getting your feelings hurt is only possible if you have feelings about what should be strictly a business arrangement.

 

 

>Your drinking analogy doesn't work, because that deals with

>addiction.

 

It deals with any situation in which you do something that you know isn't good for you.

 

>At any rate, sure clients who get too emotionally attached get

>hurt,

 

>This is still completely different than

>not having feelings or emotions toward an escort at all - it

>just needs to be kept in check.

 

"I can control my [drinking] [gambling] [overeating] [heroin] [insert other problem] anytime I want." Uh huh.

 

And as for regulars, I don't

>think it's unreasonable for clients to expect the escorts

>treat them with respect and genuine friendliness. I also

>don't think it's unreasonable to hope after several visits

>with an escort a geniune friendly affection develops.

 

The problem arises because of your use of the word "genuine." You can't pay someone to have "genuine" feelings for you. You can only pay him to pretend that he has such feelings. You do get that, don't you?

 

>No, I'm explaining not everyone shares your point of view.

 

I know. But you'll notice that I am not one of the people starting a thread to complain that escorts have hurt my feelings. It's a problem I don't have.

 

>Quite frankly, if you were to eliminate people who are looking

>for something emotional too in an escort experience, I would

>doubt you'd have all that many clients left.

 

So what?

 

>I think from reading these forums and

>reviews here I'm far from alone in that too.

 

There are a lot of people in the world who enjoy illusions. No question about that.

 

>Not all or even MOST people

>who feel something emotionally for an escort are going to

>start causing problems - they respect the person and realize

>the escort encounter for what it is and move on. But they can

>still enjoy it when it does happen.

 

I hope you're not foolish enough to imagine that you are in a position to tell us what MOST clients would do in any given situation.

 

>This just reaffirms what I've said. If you have no temptation

>to be emotionally connected with an escort, likewise I don't

>think you have much of an understanding of what it's like to

>want that closeness as part of the experience.

 

Right. Just as I have no understanding of what it feels like to want to drink until you pass out or to gamble until the casino management tosses you out the door. I can only feel sorry for people who do.

 

>it's simply wanting to feel cared

>about when you DO spend time with the escort.

 

I don't see how that applies to this thread. Obviously there was more going on in this case than the client wanting the escort to provide him with certain feelings during the time they spent together.

[woodlawn]

RE: Nails, Oxes and Obligations

 

>I can control my anytime I want

 

Should read:

 

"I can control my (drinking) (gambling) (overeating) (heroin)

(insert other problem) anytime I want." Uh huh.

 

 

We've all heard this before, right? If you want to hear it again, see the "Compulsive Gambler" thread in the Lounge.

[guptasa1]

RE: Nails, Oxes and Obligations

 

>Because that statement doesn't make any sense in reference to

>a business transaction. A business transaction isn't about

>emotion.

 

This is my last response on this as I don't want to get the thread too off topic, and I have a feeling it's just another "agree to dsiagree" issue. But this topic did have an emotional tone underlying it. Just because you don't see emotions as coming into play here doesn't mean others don't. From that perspective, the response seemed cold.

 

>>Who said that's a problem?

>

>I did. And as evidence I can point to this thread and quite a

>few others in which clients complain about getting their

>feelings hurt by escorts. Getting your feelings hurt is only

>possible if you have feelings about what should be strictly a

>business arrangement.

 

Sure, clients get hurt by escorts. I'm quite sure I could get a little hurt by an escort, especially a regular. I also know that's a risk going in and don't let it stop me. If you don't have any feelings going into an encounter, that's fine, but not everybody can or will do that. Your needs for an escort encounter may be completely different than my needs or someone else's needs, and some of the non-sexual needs make it easier to get hurt than others.

 

>>Your drinking analogy doesn't work, because that deals with

>>addiction.

>

>It deals with any situation in which you do something that you

>know isn't good for you.

 

That's pretty general. A lot of things aren't good for people, but they still do them. And who's to say an encounter with an escort or regular relationship with an escort that has some emotion involved, even if it's one-sided, is necessarily a bad thing? It can relieve stress and bring comfort if kept in perspective - those aren't bad things.

 

>>This is still completely different than

>>not having feelings or emotions toward an escort at all - it

>>just needs to be kept in check.

>

>"I can control my [drinking] [gambling] [overeating] [heroin]

>[insert other problem] anytime I want." Uh huh.

 

People can't control their emotions in many respects - that much is true. But they can set themselves up. If I said going into an eescort ncounter "Let's see what happens - maybe he'll want to spend his life with me after our date," yeah, of course that's a mistake, and it's going to hurt me and be awkward for him. But people can say, "Hey - I really like this guy, and I'm going to enjoy his company for a while tonight with the realization that afterwards I can't have any expectations." Now I agree, if you can't do that second part, escorting is probably not a good idea. But I know I certainly CAN do that, and there's no making excuses about it. Would it hurt me if an escort I liked being with never wanted to have me as a client again? Sure it would. Would it devestate me or make me hound him? Nope - I knew beforehand I couldn't make any expectations. It might legitimately be a problem for some people to let go, but it isn't for others, and I think you need to stop assuming any emotional feeling involved is a problem - it simply isn't necessarily.

 

> And as for regulars, I don't

>>think it's unreasonable for clients to expect the escorts

>>treat them with respect and genuine friendliness. I also

>>don't think it's unreasonable to hope after several visits

>>with an escort a geniune friendly affection develops.

>

>The problem arises because of your use of the word "genuine."

>You can't pay someone to have "genuine" feelings for you. You

>can only pay him to pretend that he has such feelings. You do

>get that, don't you?

 

First of all, I said hope in regards to affection - not expect. Big difference. Friendliness can indeed be genunine. For example, there's an escort I've only seen once, but he's e-mailed me back and forth to say hi a few times - just a friendly gesture of no benefit to him (at least directly). Similarly, if I remember right, he told me I could drop by to visit (NOT for an appointment) if I ever was in the area. I believe in that case, we just hit it off, and he genuinely liked me in a friendly way. Similarly, I think certain clients and escorts hit it off, and despite it still being a business transaction, in limited cases a genuine affection CAN develop. I'm not saying it happens often. It's like a bar having a favorite customer or a customer having a favorite bartender.

 

>>No, I'm explaining not everyone shares your point of view.

>

>I know. But you'll notice that I am not one of the people

>starting a thread to complain that escorts have hurt my

>feelings. It's a problem I don't have.

 

That's wonderful for you. But not all of us can (or care to be) quite so stoic.

 

>>Quite frankly, if you were to eliminate people who are

>looking

>>for something emotional too in an escort experience, I would

>>doubt you'd have all that many clients left.

>

>So what?

 

My point was only that for a lot of clients, that's a pretty big part of the experience. (I don't have any studies to back this up of course, but the posts and reviews here should be evidence enough.)

 

>>I think from reading these forums and

>>reviews here I'm far from alone in that too.

>

>There are a lot of people in the world who enjoy illusions.

>No question about that.

 

Of course people enjoy the illusion of affection. And you're right - many times the emotions are fairly one sided. People also enjoy video games and movies because they take them to another place. What's wrong with that?

 

>>Not all or even MOST people

>>who feel something emotionally for an escort are going to

>>start causing problems - they respect the person and realize

>>the escort encounter for what it is and move on. But they

>can

>>still enjoy it when it does happen.

>

>I hope you're not foolish enough to imagine that you are in a

>position to tell us what MOST clients would do in any given

>situation.

 

Above I mentioned that I think a lot of clients go to escorts for a partially emotional reason. I stand by that. IF that holds true, I think it's safe to say most clients who feel some emotion towards escorts aren't a problem. I outright say I have no empirical proof about this. Nor do you have any empirical proof that clients who do feel emotions generally end up causing problems.

 

>>This just reaffirms what I've said. If you have no

>temptation

>>to be emotionally connected with an escort, likewise I don't

>>think you have much of an understanding of what it's like to

>>want that closeness as part of the experience.

>

>Right. Just as I have no understanding of what it feels like

>to want to drink until you pass out or to gamble until the

>casino management tosses you out the door. I can only feel

>sorry for people who do.

 

Apples and oranges. Just like wanting to drink occasionally by itself isn't a problem, but drinking until you pass out is, wanting to feel emotionally close to an escort isn't a problem unless taken to an unhealthy extreme and past the boundaries of the appointment. Just like with drinking, some people can keep it in check, and I'm sure other people cannot. But don't assume everyone who involves emotions in their experiences need to be pitied - some of us enjoy that part of it as much as the sex itself but still know how to keep it real and minimize getting hurt later if something does happen.

 

>>it's simply wanting to feel cared

>>about when you DO spend time with the escort.

>

>I don't see how that applies to this thread. Obviously there

>was more going on in this case than the client wanting the

>escort to provide him with certain feelings during the time

>they spent together.

 

I disagree. The client in this case made the trip and heard nothing from the escort about it being cancelled for quite some time, thus feeling the escort didn't care as much as he thought he should have given their "regular" status. That'd bother me too. You're just talking courtesy and professional politeness there - same exists in business, but emotions complicated it a bit further in this case.

 

Just my two cents.

[+ cougar]

RE: Nails, Oxes and Obligations

 

Guptasa,

Thanks for your insight, you make some very good points. Your abliity to understand, without judgement, is nice. I am unable to just sweep this under the rug and say "thats the escort business". He was the first escort I ever hired and I was his first client. Maybe if I had more experience in this business, I would be able to more clearly see things - as they turned out. At any rate, I think I now see that this is how things can happen. Although, his actions or lack of, is new and unfamiliar to me. It has been a learning process for me.