WAS I WRONG?

[Guest majormeat37]

On a recent trip to Vegas I contacted a m4m escort to arrange for evening "companionship." However, the escort I called would not discuss his rates or what he would or would not do over the phone. He said that doing so would put him at risk legally -- since he could not be certain of whom he was talking to. Since I had never encountered this before (with an escort), I abruptly, albeit politely ended the conversation and called someone else. Was I wrong?

[Guest MrB]

If a guy chooses to escort, he's not going to get a lot of business by refusing to discuss his services. I would certainly have called someone else, as you did.

[Guest LAtommy]

MR B says it all! You are very right to call someone else, espically in Las Vegas. . . I you went to that guy I'm sure you have had problems to report to us!

 

Happy New Year!

[Guest Kevin 2]

Not at all, I would have done the same thing you did. If an escort is concerned that you might be in law enforcement perhaps they should just ask.

[Bilbo]

Unfortunately, entrapment only works as a defense on the felony level, not on misdeamonors like these, at least that is the way it is here in Texas. Our "defenders of the public morals" consider it completely moral, evidently, for a policeman to lie and anyone asking over the phone if a policeman is a law enforment officer cannot depend on the veracity of the answer.

[Guest Stephan-Lacoste]

I really think the guy made a bad jugdment. Myself i have no problems talking about my service on the phone because i do talk about it everywhere on the net. Now it is just a question of professionnalism of the escort.

If somebody hold me on the phone for an half of hour then, i would think differently.

But it seems that in this case you made a good choice

 

 

Stephan Lacoste

1-702-206-7603

http://www.stephanlacoste.com

http://www.eboysvideo.com

[adriano46]

This is a kind of tricky questions anyway.

 

About two years ago, while cruising hustlers in NYC, at least 4 of them wanted me to show some kind of ID that I was NOT in Law Enforcement. Not sure I should have been flattered or angry, but the question always came up about the time we began negotiating "$$".

 

Europe is so much more civilized in all this. When will the States catch up - or catch on, or whatever? What adults do in their private life is THEIR business, and theirs alone.

 

Damn America is schizoid: look at the trash on day time talk shows, and tell me that they are less evil than two consenting men getting together for a private encounter? The law enforcement people should arrest those who go on these talk shows as well as the hosts and the audiences!

 

Maybe that's a New Year's wish?

[Rod Hagen]

>Europe is so much more civilized

>in all this. When will

>the States catch up ?

 

Uhhm, last I checked prostitution, in all its guises, was largely illegal in Europe too.

 

But I LOVED reading "America is Schizoid"! This made me roll on the floor laughing. Wonderfully funny phraseology. Keep it up.

 

 

http://www.rodhagen.com

[Justice]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-31-00 AT 07:55PM (EST)[p]I agree. What two or more consenting adults do in the private is nobody's business but their own. Sadly, legalized (or decriminalized) prostitution is not going to happen anytime soon. Some people consider it to be immoral. (Talk about the separation of church and state!) Feminists consider it to be exploitive, a form of rape, and a human rights violation. There's concerns about STD's. (Concern about HIV caused more than one city to shut down their gay bath houses.) And then there's the so called quality of life concerns -- no one wants a brothel, massage parlour, street walker or hustler in their neighborhood. There's concerns about Pimps and underaged prostitutes. Therefore, any attempt to make it legal will unite the people like Jerry Falwell (sp?) and Gloria Steinem (sp?). I also can't see any governor or state legislator supporting it. Especially those with national political ambitions. The only way that we might be able to get legislation passed is to put it on the ballot in those states that have initiative and referendum. (Are you listening California?) The problem is SOMEONE has to propose it, work hard finance and get it passed, and then we all have to hope that it survives the enevitable court challenges. The task is daunting and very unlikely. At least not in my lifetime. As for me. The fear of getting arrested has made me resolve to stop seeing escorts. I've also joined the Libertarian party. Many of their views are VERY extreme and do not appeal to me, but they're the only political party that openly advocates the repeal of laws prohibiting prostitution. I usually don't get involved in politics. My support probably won't make a difference, but at least I'm secure in the knowledge that I just didn't sit back and do nothing. My best wishes for a happy, healthy New Year. I look forward to the day when people who indulge don't have to live in fear of getting arrested.

[+ Lucky]

In my own opinion, anybody who offers sex for money to a complete stranger, over the phone, is an idiot. Having worked in law enforcement, I can tell you that there are a lot of sick cops out there getting their jollies busting innocent, horny gay guys. While I am at it, the reviews on this site are usually accompanied by a HOOBOY disclaimer that it is assumed that the money spent was for time, not sex. I think the reviewers should be clear aabout this distinction as they proceed to graphically detail their sexual encounters. This is my last rant of the year. Actually, it's also my first! :-)

[Guest vrsatilguy]

On the political front, I agree that Europe (tho no less schizoid about the subject)is light years ahead of the U.S. Prostitution is illegal in most European countries but like many European laws compliance is the exception. Altho I think U.S. domination of the world scene has prevented a serious European discussion of legalizing prostitution (as well as the sinister force of the Catholic Church), it will no doubt happen. Right now, as with drugs in some countries)Europeans realize that escorting ain't going away, so they prefer to tolerate it, and in some cases, safer. The U.S., on the other hand, tries the more juvenile approach and actively enforces ridiculous laws that can never "solve" the problem. And, of course, it chooses to do that in many arenas. Drugs, welfare reform, SDI...the list goes on. It is my opinion that legalization, in large part, minimizes the ill effects of prostitution (many of which occur simply because of its illegality) and can, if taxed, provide revenue for further minimization. Am I naive, or what?

BTW, this also was my first rant of the year. (Of course, its only 9:00 a.m. on 1-1-01).

[Justice]

Everything that you say make sense. Unfortunately, for the reasons noted in my previous post (post number 8) it won't become legal anytime soon. Very few mainstream politicians are going to come out in favor of it. Even Jesse Ventura has backed away from comments that indicated that he supported decriminalizing it.

[adriano46]

Guys,

 

On the European front, in partial answer to some of the comments... (esp. to Rod Hagen) Europe IS light years ahead: even in Merry Olde (stodgy) U.K., they have legit escort houses, and the same goes for Spain, Germany, Belgium, the Czech Republic, and of course the Netherlands (and there are probably a few others I missed). And one should not forget the Government controls on legitimate prostitution (health checks, salaries, working conditions).

 

As for blaming the "Catholic Church" in Europe I'd follow that path with serious doubt: even in Catholic Italy, "closed houses" were legal until the first part of this century (and remember... the Italians only took over Italy as a modern State in the late 19th century so their "lay" Government closed the houses, not the Church!"). Heck, spearheading the move now to reopen such houses are priests who minister among prostitutes! Their worst critics are the so-called "laici" or those who profess no ties to religion in their politics.

 

France and the UK, which have the more complicated "puritanical" rules on houses for escorts... well... they certainly cannot be accused of being "catholic". Nor for that matter can the U.S. And remember "Victorianism" and "puritanical" etc... are exports from U.K.

 

Even the names mentioned from US who would be most opposed (Falwell etc...) not one is Catholic, thank God. I don't want to get a whole thread opened on the Catholic Church and gay issues (another thing which is very SCHIZOPHRENIC, to use my turn of phrase above) but... the US is very PROTESTANT, as are the most blatently repressive countries for these issues in Europe (and in other parts of the world, what about ISLAM and HINDUISM???).

 

Back to the topic... until the Government reigns in its law enforcement agencies... who continue to FORGET that they are there to serve the State, not to determine State policy, this form of harrassment will continue.

[Matt_Vancouver]

My first post of the year, super HUGE ASS headache today: ) but I had fun: )

anyhow, I think you did the right thing in moving on to the next guy, but I also understand the escorts fear of possible prosecution.

In Canada, escorting, although not completly legal, we are much more liberal in policing it. We have a quasi-legal situation where prostitution isn't legal but if certain guidlines are followed, you can work relatively hassle free.

Some of the guidlines are... an exchange of monetary gain for sex, cannot be discussed in a public place, (this makes street workers for the most part illegal, thus protecting neighbourhoods from unsavory types:) of course street walkers will be here forever)

You must be licensed(in order to get one you have to go through a police screening to ensure that you don't have a criminal record, thus protecting the clients) and affiliated with a licensed agency. ( Said agency must provide a driver, book all appointments, and provide security) This actually is a good idea, but a lot of the people that run the agencies are pretty slimey, and break the rules and treat the escorts like shit, so it doesn't work well.

When I started out escorting a couple of years ago, I followed all of the guidelines, but discovered the problems soon enough. So I got together with several local escorts in my city, and started a discussion with local law enforcement going to change the bylaws in our community to allow for licensed independant escorts. It's still being debated.

Anyhow I think it's a decent system and has the potential to protect both clients and escorts alike, from rip offs, and possible dangers.

I understand completly that the mindset is not quite as liberal in the US, but it's got to start somewhere, and we all know hookers will be here with cockroaches when everything else is long gone. We aren't going anywhere, so lets make it work for everyone.

my sappy bit of huggy lovey mush for today.

Happy new year everyone, time for me to get some coffee and an ice pack.

Matt(suffering from massive head injuries)

 

http://go.to/mattsplace

matt_escort@yahoo.com

[Justice]

LAST EDITED ON Jan-01-01 AT 02:46PM (EST)[p]That's it, I'm moving to Canada! :-). (I actually have cousins in Toronto and an aunt in Montreal.) Seriously though, laws like this would make life some much easier for all of us. It's sensible way to resolve a so-called problem. It would also be a win-win situation for the government -- they won't have to prosecute innocent people and they'd gain additional revenues from taxes and licensing fees. Hopefully, this will happen in my lifetime. In the meantime, as noted in post number 8, I'm voting Libertarian. If enough people start supporting third party candidates (and not just the Libertarians), then maybe, just maybe, the mainstream political parties will stop pandering to their extreme constituencies and will start supporting issues that really matter (and I don't just mean legal prostitution -- I'm talking about things like gay rights, taxes, education and the environment).

 

P.S. Matt, feel better! :-)

[Guest albinorat]

Unfortunately, I think Bilbo had it about right. There are no real protections for either escort or client. Asking if someone's a cop doesn't make a difference -- they can lie if they are (and if it gets that far, which it never does, they can lie on the stand about whether or not they "entraped" the accused. In any case, entrapment is hard to prove and ofen thrown out as a defense, since anybody who places or responds to an add is showing a "clear predisposition to commit a crime" which means all's fair from the police point of view.

 

In general, it seems as though enforcement is fairly lax when it comes to phones and the 'Net. Street walkers (of all sexes) run more risks everywhere and they and bars are very likely to be targets in times of "crack down" which happen everywhere in USA every few years.

 

The biggest protection we have on phone and 'net is there is little drama in busting people that way (rounding up "street ho's" and impounding the cars of "johns" gets the cops more press attention and makes it look like they're doing their jobs -- though last time there was a big crack down in NYC it was revealed all the cops from the given precinct were visiting a whore house about two blocks away from the streets where they arrested about 50 people). Also it's a slow process, one by one rather than a group that provides a photo op.

 

Still I find it wise, particularly on AOL where both AOL monitors and vice dicks have access to the chat rooms to make it clear (at some point in an IM or chat) that no drugs are involved and only people of legal age are considered. Also it's a good idea it seems to me for both escort and client to establish some kind of 'net rapport before getting around to acts and discussing them in vague terms. And I usually ask "how much is an hour of your time" -- and I suggest humbly escorts think about saying "I charge such and such for time only".

 

One thing I've done on AOL too is where I'm suspicious is suggest we meet at a near by coffee shop for five minutes right before our "date" with no absolute committment either way. (Luckily I live in Chelsea, the neighborhood of queens so that's pretty easy).

 

But we have to face that there is always some risk however small -- and of course that extends to the escort not being what he claims to be, or into what he claims he's into or the john being a filthy rip off.

 

Al

[Guest MattAdams]

You were exactly right especially in Las Vegas. You can see ample warnings on what you can expect if you are not careful from various posts and reviews.

 

The fact that people are duped by agencies using 10 year old photos of porn stars that don't work for the agency tells you something. Clients believe what they want to believe.

 

My website http://www.whatshotnews.com/referals is open to any reputable escort in Las Vegas. There is no charge to be on this site and the local escort community is well aware of what business practices I won't tolerate.

 

This site started earlier this year as an unpublicized underground site. It is now pretty much a guaranteed safety net for clients to the point clients will ask escorts who are not listed why they are not listed before hiring them. The response you receive will generally give you an idea of comfort with the escort.

 

I hope you all have an enjoyable visit to Las Vegas and help to keep Nevada Green

 

Matt Adams

Author, Hustlers, Escorts and Porn Stars

http://www.whatshotnews.com

[Rod Hagen]

>Guys,

>

>On the European front, in partial

>answer to some of the

>comments... (esp. to Rod Hagen)

 

I did say "largely" (ie not completely) illegal. But thanks for the info. I lived in Germany for a year and could have REALLY used the money. Whorehouses are not my ideal source of income, but every little bit helps. Where are/were they in Germany? Berlin? (I was in Bavaria and the Black Forest)

 

http://www.rodhagen.com

[adriano46]

Rod,

 

They are in major cities, like Frankfort, Hamburg, Berlin (of course), Cologne and Munich. There may be others. My favourite was always one in Frankfort which has a very good selection of boys/men, nice ambiance (tho the "lava lights" are a bit dated), and reasonable costs.

[Bilbo]

No matter how well you describe yourself in words, the prospective client is going to flavor that with what he hopes you will look like, coming up sometimes with something which you cannot be considered to look like. Therefore, after one particular person left me waiting in the lobby of his hotel for an hour by cruising by and rejecting me without letting me know of that rejection (when I called him he said I didn't look enough like a master to him. There are just some lobbies where full leathers would not fit in.), I never meet a client in person. It also often involves involving the business or street where you meet in your business. That's totally unfair in my mind if you are meeting in a gay business where escorts do not openly ply their trade.

Also, it often seems to me that Americans worship childhood. We are all supposed to kowtow to and protect children whether they are ours or not. To the point that for many people the only reason for marriage is propogation and child rearing. DOMA. And anti-singles tax breaks. I only benefit indirectly from school taxes - hopefully there are fewer gangs or adult illiterates. And if I want to do something where a child would not fit into the mix, I am automatically suspect. So calling our neroses juvenile is quite apt.

[GinoMancuso]

For what it's worth, this is how I handle the fees issue:

 

If I'm asked for my fees via email or instant message, I refer clients to my website, which includes a fee schedule and disclaimer. If it's by telephone, it depends. If someone simply asks what my fees are, and hasn't mentioned any sexual act, I tell them. If I'm asked for example, "how much for you to come fuck me?" I blow them off because a) it's called solicitation and b)very few real clients would phrase it that way, anyway. But an escort could also say, "I don't charge for sex, I'm an escort and I charge X dollars per hour for my companionship" without worrying much about the vice squad bursting through his door.

 

As for clients, remember that solicitation works both ways. Never ask an escort what he charges for a specific act. He could be wearing a REAL police uniform. If the escort doesn't have a website or an ad anywhere, or you don't know him or know of him via Hooboy's site or elsewhere, first ask him what he charges for his time. Then, as far as I'm concerned, it's fair game to discuss what you're into, as long as you don't end up blowing it all by summarizing the conversation with something like, "so it would be $250.00 for you to spank me and call me Ruth, right?"

 

No need to be overly paranoid. Just stay on guard and never allow yourself to get roped into discussing fees for certain sexual acts - whether you're an escort or a client. Capisce?

 

Class dismissed.

 

G

 

ginomancuso@earthlink.net

http://www.ginonyc.com

[+ Lucky]

Class Dismissed? But it was a very good class, by a teacher who obviously knows what he is talking about! It should be part of our mandatory education program in grades 18+. :-)

[Matt_Vancouver]

spank me and call me ruth...wins my award for best quote of the week: )

matt(who made me the judge? )

http://go.to/mattsplace

matt_escort@yahoo.com

[HooBoy]

>spank me and call me ruth...wins

>my award for best quote

>of the week: )

>matt(who made me the judge? )

 

I agree. It actually made me roll on the floor and laugh. ROFL.

 

With Gino's permission, I'd like to add it to the FAQ.

 

HooBoy

Email: HooBoy@male4malescorts.com

[GinoMancuso]

>>spank me and call me ruth...wins

>>my award for best quote

>>of the week: )

>>matt(who made me the judge? )

>

>I agree.

>

>With Gino's permission, I'd like to

>add it to the FAQ.

 

>HooBoy

 

Permission granted, Hooboy! Maybe file it under "Spanking/Ruth/Proper ways to avoid prosecution?"

 

G

 

http://www.ginonyc.com