TonyDown Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 On 11/24/2023 at 8:21 PM, marylander1940 said: “Women’s sports is not the place for mediocre male athletes who compete as women,” Martina Navratilova OP note: It's more than that or that's the reason they transition in some cases? Martina Navratilova makes stance clear on men playing women's sports, responds to latest NCAA controversy WWW.FOXNEWS.COM Tennis legend Martina Navratilova made her stance on men in women's sports clear on Tuesday and responded to another controversy in NCAA women's swimming. Chris Evert discussed Rene Richard's unfair advantage in women's tennis when Richard's transitioned M - F. You can Google it if interested. This does seem like a sports ethics question. One might ask why these athletes choose to compete when they have this advantage. Perhaps the sports ethics folks can address it. I don't know the answer. thomas 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marylander1940 Posted March 23 Author Share Posted March 23 (edited) 11 hours ago, TonyDown said: Chris Evert discussed Rene Richard's unfair advantage in women's tennis when Richard's transitioned M - F. You can Google it if interested. This does seem like a sports ethics question. One might ask why these athletes choose to compete when they have this advantage. Perhaps the sports ethics folks can address it. I don't know the answer. No need to google it, I'm aware of it. Edited March 23 by marylander1940 + Vegas_Millennial and thomas 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSR Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 On 3/22/2024 at 7:30 PM, TonyDown said: Chris Evert discussed Rene Richard's unfair advantage in women's tennis when Richard's transitioned M - F. You can Google it if interested. This does seem like a sports ethics question. One might ask why these athletes choose to compete when they have this advantage. Perhaps the sports ethics folks can address it. I don't know the answer. In 1977 Renee Richards sued for and won the right to compete on the WTA Tour but has since changed her stance: "Having lived for the past 30 years, I know if I’d had surgery at the age of 22, and then at 24 went on the tour, no genetic woman in the world would have been able to come close to me. And so I’ve reconsidered my opinion. There is one thing that a transsexual woman unfortunately cannot expect to be allowed to do, and that is to play professional sports in her chosen field. She can get married, live as woman, do all of those other things, and no one should ever be allowed to take them away from her. But this limitation—that’s just life. I know because I lived it." samhexum, TonyDown and thomas 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy768 Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 I think it's possible to question the fairness of trans-women competing in sports (and possibly other arenas) against cis-women without crossing the line into ridiculing transgender people - which unfortunately I think Navratilova has done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSR Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 6 hours ago, Andy768 said: I think it's possible to question the fairness of trans-women competing in sports (and possibly other arenas) against cis-women without crossing the line into ridiculing transgender people - which unfortunately I think Navratilova has done. How did Navratilova ridicule trans people? I'm not seeing it. Pipe1940 and thomas 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy768 Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 On 3/24/2024 at 8:46 PM, BSR said: How did Navratilova ridicule trans people? I'm not seeing it. Well, I just imagine that if I were a trans woman and someone referred to me as a "mediocre male athlete competing as a woman," I think I would feel like they're trying to jab/ridicule me and my identity as much as (if not more so) than make an argument about fairness in sports. Of course Navratilova - who is a legend whom I respect immensely - has the right to express herself however she chooses. I just think when there's a choice, why not choose kindness? Identity issues can be tough for anyone; I say this as a cis man. So, I mean, just being respectful of other people's struggles by not ridiculing them doesn't seem like too big an ask to me. And I do think there can be a point at which there's too much walking on eggshells, but that doesn't mean we forgo basic etiquette. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc in Calif Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 (edited) 9 hours ago, Andy768 said: Well, I just imagine that if I were a trans woman and someone referred to me as a "mediocre male athlete competing as a woman" That's not ridiculing all transgender people. It's describing only certain trans athletes in competitive sports. Edited March 26 by Marc in Calif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSR Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 1 hour ago, Marc in Calif said: That's not ridiculing all transgender people. It's describing only certain trans athletes in competitive sports. Referring back to the article I cited earlier, I think Navratilova is referring specifically to trans women who have not undergone hormone therapy (69% haven't) and are therefore biologically and physically the same as any man. Even trans women who have undergone hormone therapy still enjoy physical advantages (e.g., height, armspan, greater lung capacity) over cis women. pubic_assistance, thomas and Marc in Calif 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc in Calif Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 1 hour ago, BSR said: Referring back to the article I cited earlier, I think Navratilova is referring specifically to trans women who have not undergone hormone therapy (69% haven't) and are therefore biologically and physically the same as any man. Even trans women who have undergone hormone therapy still enjoy physical advantages (e.g., height, armspan, greater lung capacity) over cis women. True. But you also believe that Martina did not "ridicule" trans people with her description. On 3/24/2024 at 5:46 PM, BSR said: How did Navratilova ridicule trans people? I'm not seeing it. So we both agree that the following statement was incorrect. On 3/24/2024 at 11:19 AM, Andy768 said: I think it's possible to question the fairness of trans-women competing in sports (and possibly other arenas) against cis-women without crossing the line into ridiculing transgender people - which unfortunately I think Navratilova has done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marylander1940 Posted April 9 Author Share Posted April 9 College sports association bans biological men from women’s sports | Catholic News Agency WWW.CATHOLICNEWSAGENCY.COM Colleges such as Benedictine College and Ave Maria University are members of the NAIA, which issued a ban on biological men competing in women’s sports. + Vegas_Millennial and pubic_assistance 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pipe1940 Posted April 12 Share Posted April 12 As a gay man, I am 100% agree with Martina. marylander1940 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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