harm reduction advice about doing a steroids

[NYXboy]

I'm not sure if this breaks the rules of this forum - if so please delete the thread. 

I have done a little research and  I want to try and do a small cycle of steroids. 

 

I am looking at doing Anavar (with milk thistle etc and other liver/kidney protection drugs). I understand I won't get the most gains with it, but it is taken orally and seems as though it has the smallest amount of side effects - which is important to me. I'm only looking for something somewhat modest, 

 

I'm 41 - always been really slim. I just want to spend a few months committed to eating right and working out and getting the best results I can before I am too old to do it with decent results. 

 

what I am asking for here is advice on how I can do it as safely as possible, not a lecture. 

So - advice about non-judgemental doctors, personal trainers, etc 

 

I have found the Reddit forums and information online rather overwhelming and want some harm-reduction guidance before jumping in. 

I asked my doctor and he cut me off before i could even finish my sentence, which I found to be poor attitude. 

 

 

[56harrisond]

Based on the information presented I don't understand the desire to use steroids, especially if you are new to or just getting back into working out. 

Start by eating right and sticking to a diet plan presumably to gain weight, and a workout plan that meets your goals to increase mass. To use any steroid without having your diet and workout in place would just be a waste.

[NYXboy]

3 hours ago, 56harrisond said:

Based on the information presented I don't understand the desire to use steroids, especially if you are new to or just getting back into working out. 

Start by eating right and sticking to a diet plan presumably to gain weight, and a workout plan that meets your goals to increase mass. To use any steroid without having your diet and workout in place would just be a waste.

maybe you didn't read where I said " I just want to spend a few months committed to eating right and working out " 

 

I don't know where it was implied that I was asking for you to understand my desire - but thanks for the input. 

[+ nycman]

Oral steroids are a horrible idea. 

If you’re going to do steroids, do steroids…and inject them. 

In my early 30’s, I seriously considered doing steroids. Thankfully, my trainer at the time was smarter than me. He said "let’s do everything we can with a clean diet and heavy lifting. If you commit to that 100% and you’re still not happy with the results, then we’ll talk about adding steroids to the routine. After all, if you can’t manage committing to a clean diet and heavy lifting, steroids aren’t going to do much for you anyways".

In the end, I was happy with the results of a clean dirt and heavy lifting, and thus never tried them. 

"Face it. If it came in a bottle, everyone would have a great body" - Cher.

Edited September 14, 2023 by nycman
Are, aren’t….fuck off.

[NYXboy]

58 minutes ago, nycman said:

Oral steroids are a horrible idea. 

If you’re going to do steroids, do steroids…and inject them. 

In my early 30’s, I seriously considered doing steroids. Thankfully, my trainer at the time was smarter than me. He said "let’s do everything we can with a clean diet and heavy lifting. If you commit to that 100% and you’re still not happy with the results, then we’ll talk about adding steroids to the routine. After all, if you can’t manage committing to a clean diet and heavy lifting, steroids are going to do much for you anyways".

In the end, I was happy with the results of a clean dirt and heavy lifting, and thus never tried them. 

"Face it. If it came in a bottle, everyone would have a great body" - Cher.

what I am asking for here is advice on how I can do it as safely as possible, not a lecture. 

So - advice about non-judgemental doctors, personal trainers, etc  

[+ nycman]

5 hours ago, NYXboy said:

what I am asking for here is advice on how I can do it as safely as possible

And thats exactly what you got…..

6 hours ago, nycman said:

Oral steroids are a horrible idea. 

If you’re going to do steroids, do steroids…and inject them

Everything else was just my personal experience and advice.
It wasn’t meant to be a lecture. I could care less whether or not you do steroids
Sometimes on the internet you get more (or less) than you ask for. 
It’s best to have thick skin. Best of luck. 

[Guest]

15 hours ago, NYXboy said:

I'm not sure if this breaks the rules of this forum - if so please delete the thread. 

I have done a little research and  I want to try and do a small cycle of steroids. 

 

I am looking at doing Anavar (with milk thistle etc and other liver/kidney protection drugs). I understand I won't get the most gains with it, but it is taken orally and seems as though it has the smallest amount of side effects - which is important to me. I'm only looking for something somewhat modest, 

 

I'm 41 - always been really slim. I just want to spend a few months committed to eating right and working out and getting the best results I can before I am too old to do it with decent results. 

 

what I am asking for here is advice on how I can do it as safely as possible, not a lecture. 

So - advice about non-judgemental doctors, personal trainers, etc 

 

I have found the Reddit forums and information online rather overwhelming and want some harm-reduction guidance before jumping in. 

I asked my doctor and he cut me off before i could even finish my sentence, which I found to be poor attitude. 

 

 

You're doing the responsible thing by researching and asking questions however if hepatotoxicity and side effects are your main concerns, there are better and even safer choices. Anavar has its time and place but like I said, there are better options. 

[NYXboy]

16 minutes ago, Vin_Marco said:

You're doing the responsible thing by researching and asking questions however if hepatotoxicity and side effects are your main concerns, there are better and even safer choices. Anavar has its time and place but like I said, there are better options. 

my main concerns are gynecomastia amongst other things - i guess i am just looking of advice that is not too overwhelming or simplified for a beginner in this area who wants to start slowly 

 

what do you suggest?

[Guest]

Loads of anabolic agents don't aromatize so gyno isn't a concern with them. 

[Guest]

Anyone responsible enough to give their opinion would need a lot information about you. It's a not so simple.... these are powerful drugs that can be used responsibly. It doesn't sound like your doc is on board and best case scenario is to  have a medical doctor who knows what's going on... I can't stress to you how important labwork is.. it's vital. Metrics and values that shouldn't be ignored. 

[Guest]

Well, no anabolic steroids (or other drugs) have been studied for, much less FDA-approved for, bodybuilding and/or improving one's physical appearance. Therefore, prescribing a medication (such as this AAS/androgenic anabolic steroid), which is a scheduled medication (controlled substance), for such purposes would be illegal and many would say unethical. Of course, there are diplomatic and ruder ways of turning a patient down. That being said, I'd guess most physicians would rather not get into this legally dubious prescribing practice, so I feel it's unfair to label a physician who turns you down as having a "poor attitude," as you put it. In fact, it might be more fair to describe a physician who would prescribe it as having a "shady attitude." 

I've never actually met a physician who's prescribed AAS's for bodybuilding/cosmetic purposes, nor have I ever encountered a patient on Anavar/oxandrolone. Therefore, I had to look it up on Wikipedia, and it looks as though the FDA withdrew the approval for this medication fairly recently:

"...Oxandrolone was one of the few AASs that remained available for medical use in the United States. The others (as of August 2023) are testosterone, testosterone cypionate, testosterone enanthate, testosterone undecanoate, methyltestosterone, fluoxymesterone, and oxymetholone. On June 28th, 2023, the FDA formally withdrew approval for oxandrolone for all indications, stating that possible adverse effects of the drug were sufficiently serious to warrant removal from the U.S. market. As of August 2023, neither the brand nor generic versions of oxandrolone are marketed.
Outside of the United States, the availability of oxandrolone is quite limited. With the exception of Moldova, it is no longer available in Europe. Oxandrolone is available in some less-regulated markets in Asia such as Malaysia. It is also available in Mexico. Historically, oxandrolone has been marketed in Argentina, Australia, Brazil, France, Italy, Japan, and Spain, but it appears to no longer be available in these countries...". 

If I were to recommend steroids for bodybuilding (which I don't), I'd probably recommend the topicals (i.e. gels or patches). Be aware that if you use steroids to get your free testosterone levels above physiological (normal) levels, your pituitary will attempt to shut down what it will perceive as an over-active set of testicles. This means that your testicles will shrink (and eventually pretty much vanish) over time. This would affect your ability to have children, if that's a concern. There are ways around that, to an extent, such as injecting hCG, which stimulates the testicles. 

Depending on where you live, you will probably be able to find a physician who's willing to prescribe AAS's for bodybuilding/cosmetic reasons. That physician would probably be the best source of advice on how to minimize adverse consequences of AAS use. Bear in mind, though, that any method for minimizing these adverse consequences will not have been subjected to rigorous scientific inquiry, but rather be based on empirical data, and theorizing from known basic science. 

[SFGateboy]

In my limited experiences (as I've also been interested and did quite a bit of research), the general consensus seems to be to start with just testosterone, at an amount that would put you up to the 1500 range, then layer on top of that. Testosterone seems to have the least potential for side effects, depending on your personal chemistry, and it should be monitored with baseline and periodic labs. From there, maybe something like anavar/deca/tren, but like others have said, injectables seem to be the way to go in all cases

[Rudynate]

Guys generally use anavar to get lean and cut.  They use other compounds for mass building.

[+ BenjaminNicholas]

First, the op needs to consult with a endocrinologist or T-level doc who can create a program for him.

Orals are bullshit and tough on your system.  Don't do them.

There's so much gray area here.  Don't ask an anonymous message board.  Ask a doctor.  And like Vin said above, you need regular labs to keep track of your levels and if you're doing harm to your body.

Bottom line, a few months- one cycle- isn't going to magically get you to where you want to be.  

 

Edited September 16, 2023 by BenjaminNicholas

[Guest]

21 hours ago, Rudynate said:

Guys generally use anavar to get lean and cut.  They use other compounds for mass building.

And also 4-5 weeks.... it's a popular hardener used at the tail end of contest preps. It's like applying the wax to a clean car. Loads of folks make the mistake of taking it way too early causing more possible harm than necessary. 

[NYXboy]

1 hour ago, BenjaminNicholas said:

First, the op needs to consult with a endocrinologist or T-level doc who can create a program for him.

There's so much gray area here.  Don't ask an anonymous message board.  Ask a doctor.  And like Vin said above, you need regular labs to keep track of your levels and if you're doing harm to your body.

You are there - that's what I am asking for -

" advice about non-judgemental doctors, personal trainers, etc "

 

Do you have anyone in New York that you can put me in the direction of? WHat labs work should i ask my doctor to monitor? 

1 hour ago, BenjaminNicholas said:

Bottom line, a few months- one cycle- isn't going to magically get you to where you want to be.  

 

I don't have unrealistic expectations. I just want to test the waters in the safest way possible. 

[+ BenjaminNicholas]

2 hours ago, NYXboy said:

You are there - that's what I am asking for -

 

" advice about non-judgemental doctors, personal trainers, etc "

 

Do you have anyone in New York that you can put me in the direction of? WHat labs work should i ask my doctor to monitor? 

I don't have unrealistic expectations. I just want to test the waters in the safest way possible. 

You can easily google T-clinics in Manhattan or the boroughs.  There are tons of these docs around now.

My advice:  Wouldn't you rather talk to your GP about this, who could ideally look at your medical history and make suggestions on how to proceed?

Blood work should include CBC, CMP 14, and tests for hormones like cortisol, insulin, T3, TPO antibodies, TSH, LH, FSH, and sex steroids testosterone, progesterone, and estradiol.  

You do have unrealistic expectations if you think you're going to be where you want to be in just three months.  Using a steroid or testosterone cycle means using multiple cycles and then having a solid PCT in-between.

If you want specific names of doctors, most here won't be helpful on that.

 

[Rudynate]

4 hours ago, BenjaminNicholas said:

You can easily google T-clinics in Manhattan or the boroughs.  There are tons of these docs around now.

My advice:  Wouldn't you rather talk to your GP about this, who could ideally look at your medical history and make suggestions on how to proceed?

Blood work should include CBC, CMP 14, and tests for hormones like cortisol, insulin, T3, TPO antibodies, TSH, LH, FSH, and sex steroids testosterone, progesterone, and estradiol.  

You do have unrealistic expectations if you think you're going to be where you want to be in just three months.  Using a steroid or testosterone cycle means using multiple cycles and then having a solid PCT in-between.

If you want specific names of doctors, most here won't be helpful on that.

 

Mainstream docs think that hormone replacement is simply measuring a guys total and or free Testosterone and writing a  script.  You will only get the kind of treatment Benjamin is describing by going to someone who specializes in hormone optimization.

[NYXboy]

5 hours ago, BenjaminNicholas said:

You can easily google T-clinics in Manhattan or the boroughs.  There are tons of these docs around now.

My advice:  Wouldn't you rather talk to your GP about this, who could ideally look at your medical history and make suggestions on how to proceed?

 

YES - which is why in my original post I write :

"What I am asking for here is advice on how I can do it as safely as possible, not a lecture. 

So - advice about non-judgemental doctors, personal trainers, etc "

 

5 hours ago, BenjaminNicholas said:

 

You do have unrealistic expectations if you think you're going to be where you want to be in just three months.  Using a steroid or testosterone cycle means using multiple cycles and then having a solid PCT in-between.

If you want specific names of doctors, most here won't be helpful on that.

 

How do you know where I want to be in 3 months?  I haven't mentioned anything but my goals.  You are making huge amount of assumptions here!   😃

 

Thanks for the advice - I will just search up the clinics and try my luck rather than have recommendations. ( i was hoping for a DM for a referral rather than a post on the pulic forum)

 

 

[NYXboy]

1 hour ago, Rudynate said:

Mainstream docs think that hormone replacement is simply measuring a guys total and or free Testosterone and writing a  script.  You will only get the kind of treatment Benjamin is describing by going to someone who specializes in hormone optimization.

 Any recomendations of clincs?

[Guest]

53 minutes ago, NYXboy said:

 Any recomendations of clincs?

Google TRT or anti-aging clinics near you. 

[+ Notor]

I have been on test cyp for over 20 years as directed by a well known hospital. The advice Benjamin Nicholas gives is exactly correct!