minimal expectations

[JT Brooklyn]

IMHO. There are many "Blatino" Brazilians,from very Light Skinned to Black, for those of us who have seen the guys in the Kristen Bjorn Videos. Of course speaking "Portugese" as the First Language, proves that for those who are that concerned about the being Brazilian Issue. BUT IF a guy Physically turns someone on, No Matter what his Features.. what is the big deal? :+

[Guest]

Here's my opinion on these...

 

>1) Charge a fair market rate based on what you have to offer.

 

If by that you mean that the escort should do a great job if he charges a great price, I agree. If by that you mean that an escort should charge similar rates for the same service as other escorts in his area, I disagree. An escort with a great reputation, or with a great body, or with a great face has every right to charge more than a plainer escort (or even more so than an escort who doesn't show his face or body on his website).

 

>2) Show up. No excuse not to unless you are hospitalized.

 

Well, there are other (rare) but valid excuses for having to cancel. However, the only valid excuses for not calling to cancel when the reason for cancelling arises are unconsciousness and death.

 

>3) Be on time. No excuse not to.

 

Similarly, being late should be a rare exception, even if living in a large city. Not notifying the client is only acceptable in the case of temporary unconsciousness (I guess in the case of death, the escort will never be coming).

 

>4) Turn your cell phone off. How rude to take calls on my

>time.

 

I agree, if the appointment is for 3 hours or less. If it's a long-term engagement, the escort has a right to receive messages and answer discreetly, except during the actual time of initmacy, of course. I don't believe for one second the story of the escort rushing to the hospital and saying his last words to his grandparent minutes before the grandparent died. In my many years as a physician, I've never heard of anything like this ever happening. I have known patients to be struck by lightning, however. It's more likely to be struck by lightning multiple times than to get a call in the middle of an intimate session which allows you to say your last words to a loved one. And anyone who has a relative who gets panicky if his/her cell phone message isn't answered within three hours, has a relative with serious psychopathology.

 

>5) It has to get hard. No excuse not to.

 

Well, this may be beyond the escort's control. However, if the escort advertizes as a top, the escort should either cancel the session without charge and reschedule, or at least offer a serious discount. The notion of a client offering an escort Viagra (etc.) is silly since these medications take an hour to kick in (first of all), and also because dispensing medication without a license is illegal (well, so is prostitution in most states, I realize).

 

>6) Be able to cum if I want you to; I'll let you know.

 

I disagree, here, unless you have specifically hired him for that purpose. Some escorts do see more than one client a day, and that's OK. If he came and saw another client, he couldn't meet your requirements number 5 & 6 again, now, could he?

 

>7) Don't call me more than once to ask if I want you to come

>back.

 

This is surely common sense. You could also try being direct with the escort "I'll let you know if and when I want to hire you again." Anybody who doesn't understand that is pretty darned stupid.

 

>Are any of these unfair?

>

Now for the escort's...

 

I. Thou shalt have good hygeine

 

Of course

 

II. Thou shalt be on time

 

Yes, the Golden Rule applies.

 

III. To thine own self keep thy hands and be discreet in public places

 

If this is a safety issue, then I'll agree. For example I agree that it's dangerous to show same-sex public affection in East LA, Watts, Iran, or Saudi Arabia. If the issue, however, is that you're simply ashamed of an older guy showing affection towards you in a safe place (i.e. Mark's restaurant in West Hollywood), then you should find another line of work. You should not be in this work if you're ashamed of your clients.

 

IV. Thou shalt not attempt to milk every last drop figuratively and literally

 

Sounds reasonable.

 

V. Thou shalt not call me outside of NORMAL hours

 

Either silence your phone when you go to bed, or don't and don't complain about it. You can get an alarm at any drugstore for $10.

 

VI. Thou shalt cancel or notify as soon as a problem arises

 

No doubt about the propriety of this one.

 

VII. Thou shalt have the money on the table and/or visible and available.

 

I've hired about 50-60 escorts, and have only had one or two ask me to do this. I think most get a sixth sense about this after a while. If the guy wouldn't give his phone number, I guess this would seem more important. I've also rarely been asked by a restaurant to pay up-front (other than some buffets where everyone pays in advance). Is "dash and dine" really that prevalent?

 

VIII. Mine dick after an orgasm is sensitive, please don’t think its name is Bessie.

 

Quite reasonable

 

IX. The phrases “no” and “I’m not into that” MEAN what they say.

 

Of course.

 

X. Thou shalt understand before and respect the rates after without attempts to bargain.

 

I don't quite understand your grammar here. If by this statement you mean that clients shouldn't try to bargain rates after the session is over, that's totally true, of course.

[SAdler]

>An escort

>with a great reputation, or with a great body, or with a great

>face has every right to charge more than a plainer escort (or

>even more so than an escort who doesn't show his face or body

>on his website).

 

You're one of the few people in this forum outside of escorts that carries that opinion

 

>However, the only valid excuses for not calling to

>cancel when the reason for cancelling arises are

>unconsciousness and death.

 

DEFINITELY applies to clients as well

 

> I agree, if the appointment is for 3 hours or less.

 

My sessions have no time limits on them. Sometimes they last two hours, some times they last seven. No price difference. Just depends on the chemistry etc.

 

>If

>it's a long-term engagement, the escort has a right to receive

>messages and answer discreetly, except during the actual time

>of initmacy, of course.

 

The point is, getting up to answer a call during intimacy is a no-no, goes without saying. My phone is the only way to get in touch with me for my friends and family. No house phone etc. If someone is calling me over and over again and or sends me an urgent text message, how is it ANY different to you if I DISCREETLY ... without you even being told ... answer the call by the front of the restaurant or near the bathrooms or go TO the bathroom. I'm not saying Im going to take a half hour on the phone but REALLY. Clients do play this phone game too. Everyone does.

 

My cleaning guy spent TWENTY MINUTES on his cell phone while cleaning my bathroom the other day, occasionally even running to his notebook and writing down numbers and addresses for auditions and what not. When he finally hung up I looked at him and established that since his talking on the phone SIGNIFICANTLY deterred from the service he was supposed to provide he was making up for it. In this case when LOOKING at the phone discreetly isn't taking away from the appointment or rarely taking an emergency call for the length it takes to piss and wash hands, get over it.

 

>I don't believe for one second the

>story of the escort rushing to the hospital and saying his

>last words to his grandparent minutes before the grandparent

>died. In my many years as a physician, I've never heard of

>anything like this ever happening. I have known patients to

>be struck by lightning, however. It's more likely to be struck by lightning multiple times than to get a call in the

>middle of an intimate session which allows you to say your

>last words to a loved one. And anyone who has a relative who

>gets panicky if his/her cell phone message isn't answered

>within three hours, has a relative with serious

>psychopathology.

 

LOL. Well I can definitely speak from experience that you're wrong and as a result MY psychology has conditioned me to accept dire circumstances as a possiblity. Although this wasn't work related, my grandmother called my parents and I in the middle of dinner saying that my grandfather (despite a CLEAR bill of heart health days earlier) had a heart attack when he had to push his golf cart up a hill with a friend. If we hadn't DROPPED dinner and left cash on the table we would have not gotten to say goodbye to him as he died very shortly after we got there. It was traumatizing but it happened and I dont regret it for a moment because at least we got to say goodbye.

>

>>5) It has to get hard. No excuse not to.

>

> Well, this may be beyond the escort's control. However,

>if the escort advertizes as a top, the escort should either

>cancel the session without charge and reschedule, or at least

>offer a serious discount.

 

I agree. If you advertise as a top you need to expect to be hard for the session. Unless it's something the client did, there's no exuse.

 

>The notion of a client offering an

>escort Viagra (etc.) is silly since these medications take an

>hour to kick in (first of all), and also because dispensing

>medication without a license is illegal (well, so is

>prostitution in most states, I realize).

 

For a physician you're 0/2 on these things.

 

http://my.webmd.com/drugs/drug-7417-Viagra+Oral.aspx?drugid=7417&drugname=Viagra+Oral

 

It's always been advertised to activate in about half an hour. When you're dealing with a healthy young gay male taking 50 mg let alone 100 mg with some generous clients, the effects are more than evident in an hour session let alone longer one. Nobody said ANYTHING about dispensing meds illegally. It's EASY to get Viagra, you just have to pay for it ... including the legit stuff. ANY doctor will give it to you if you say you need it in lieu of unsafe sex.

 

>III. To thine own self keep thy hands and be discreet in

>public places

>

> If this is a safety issue, then I'll agree. For example

>I agree that it's dangerous to show same-sex public affection

>in East LA, Watts, Iran, or Saudi Arabia. If the issue,

>however, is that you're simply ashamed of an older guy showing

>affection towards you in a safe place (i.e. Mark's restaurant

>in West Hollywood), then you should find another line of work.

> You should not be in this work if you're ashamed of your

>clients.

 

Uh. NO. No...no...no. It's not a matter of shame it's SIMPLY a matter of discretion. If I'm a "socialite" in WeHo I don't need you trying to grope my ass on Santa Monica blvd. It looks cheap and dirty, if you need that you need someone else. It has NOTHING to do with shame. I dont want people knowing I'm an escort and you don't want people knowing you're hiring them .... as people in the Deli would have us believe I'm happy to have lunch with you there as long as you're not trying to fondle me. I dont suck face or hold hands with my boyfriends in public, no reason I should do it in my "hobby" life either.

 

>Either silence your phone when you go to bed, or don't and

>don't complain about it. You can get an alarm at any

>drugstore for $10.

 

It's not the ALARM aspect. I don't have a house phone ... I have one phone number. I happen to guard the secret of my phone number well. The problem is for other escorts who get crystal meth head clients calling at four in the morning. It's rude. Have some social decency. Goes hand in hand with the above. Take a look at yourself and what you'd expect. Escorts are not objects or meat, they're people too.

>

>VII. Thou shalt have the money on the table and/or visible and

>available.

>

>I've hired about 50-60 escorts, and have only had one or two

>ask me to do this. I think most get a sixth sense about this

>after a while. If the guy wouldn't give his phone number, I

>guess this would seem more important. I've also rarely been

>asked by a restaurant to pay up-front (other than some buffets

>where everyone pays in advance). Is "dash and dine" really

>that prevalent?

 

I'm not saying pay me first. I'm just making sure dual trust is established. If you're a first time client. You can talk a whole lot of fabulousness but be playing a game like ANY other hustler. I'm not saying it's a deal breaker, but if an escort asks just to make sure the cash is available on a hunch, you should be READY to comply. Going again with the above, we're not restaurants or pieces of meat. You pay a co-pay at the doctor and a retainer for an attorney. Think of it that way

 

>X. Thou shalt understand before and respect the rates after

>without attempts to bargain.

>

>I don't quite understand your grammar here. If by this

>statement you mean that clients shouldn't try to bargain rates

>after the session is over, that's totally true, of course.

 

The grammar is spoofing the Ten Commandments, sorry fi the humor was lost on you. I'm saying the rates are established BEFORE the session and that is partially your responsibility to find out what they are as well so there are no surprises, assume nothing. OF COURSE you dont bargain afterward unless you expect a can of whoop-ass

[Guest]

>It's always been advertised to activate in about half an hour.

> When you're dealing with a healthy young gay male taking 50

>mg let alone 100 mg with some generous clients, the effects

>are more than evident in an hour session let alone longer one.

> Nobody said ANYTHING about dispensing meds illegally. It's

>EASY to get Viagra, you just have to pay for it ... including

>the legit stuff. ANY doctor will give it to you if you say

>you need it in lieu of unsafe sex.

 

I don't understand your last sentence. As indicated in your website, Viagra starts to work in 30 mins, and doesn't reach its peak effect for an hour. One would therefore be silly to take it at the start of a 60 or 90-minute session. Even the online Viagra sites have a doctor with a medical license backing it up. A client may not give an escort a prescription medication unless he's licensed to prescribe (i.e. an MD, NP, or PA).

 

>

>>III. To thine own self keep thy hands and be discreet in

>>public places

>>

>> If this is a safety issue, then I'll agree. For

>example

>>I agree that it's dangerous to show same-sex public

>affection

>>in East LA, Watts, Iran, or Saudi Arabia. If the issue,

>>however, is that you're simply ashamed of an older guy

>showing

>>affection towards you in a safe place (i.e. Mark's

>restaurant

>>in West Hollywood), then you should find another line of

>work.

>> You should not be in this work if you're ashamed of your

>>clients.

>

>Uh. NO. No...no...no. It's not a matter of shame it's

>SIMPLY a matter of discretion. If I'm a "socialite" in WeHo I

>don't need you trying to grope my ass on Santa Monica blvd.

>It looks cheap and dirty, if you need that you need someone

>else. It has NOTHING to do with shame. I dont want people

>knowing I'm an escort and you don't want people knowing you're

>hiring them ....

 

Yes, it does have to do with shame. You wouldn't object if some hot guy was pawing you. You're being honest when you say that you just don't want people knowing you're an escort. Butcha are, Blanche. And since your face and body are posted on the worldwide web as an escort, you're not discreet about it either (not that there's anything wrong about that). As for the client worrying about whether other people might think he's hired an escort, that's up to the client to decide. Throughout history, there have been many goodlooking women or men who've hooked up with less attractive or older gentlemen (or women) for financial or status reasons. Look at the late Princess Diana, and look at Madonna's boytoys. If someone hires you for X number of hours, all you have to do is be nice to him for X number of hours. It ain't that difficult.

 

>>Either silence your phone when you go to bed, or don't and

>>don't complain about it. You can get an alarm at any

>>drugstore for $10.

>

>It's not the ALARM aspect. I don't have a house phone ... I

>have one phone number. I happen to guard the secret of my

>phone number well. The problem is for other escorts who get

>crystal meth head clients calling at four in the morning.

>It's rude.

 

I don't understand your whole crystal meth thing. Obviously, if every Tom, Dick, and Harry has your phone number, it's not a guarded secret.

 

>>VII. Thou shalt have the money on the table and/or visible

>and

>>available.

>>

>>I've hired about 50-60 escorts, and have only had one or two

>>ask me to do this. I think most get a sixth sense about

>this

>>after a while. If the guy wouldn't give his phone number, I

>>guess this would seem more important. I've also rarely been

>>asked by a restaurant to pay up-front (other than some

>buffets

>>where everyone pays in advance). Is "dash and dine" really

>>that prevalent?

>

>I'm not saying pay me first. I'm just making sure dual trust

>is established. If you're a first time client. You can talk

>a whole lot of fabulousness but be playing a game like ANY

>other hustler. I'm not saying it's a deal breaker, but if an

>escort asks just to make sure the cash is available on a

>hunch, you should be READY to comply. Going again with the

>above, we're not restaurants or pieces of meat. You pay a

>co-pay at the doctor and a retainer for an attorney.

 

I've never paid (or co-paid) a doctor or attorney in advance, nor have I heard of one who asked for cash in advance. Though I guess bankruptcy attorneys probably do. I've always wondered how bankruptcy attorneys make money. Maybe they let their clients charge their visits before they have their clients default on their credit card payments???

[SAdler]

>>ANY doctor will give it to you if you say

>>you need it in lieu of unsafe sex.

>

>I don't understand your last sentence.

 

If you go to your doctor and say, "As a gay man and in this era of rampant disease, it scares me to think that I can't maintain a solid erection to put on a condom. Is there anything that you can give me to ensure that I'm not left with the option of unsafe sex?" Provided you're not on conflicting meds a doctor would be remiss to not offer some form of "ED" medicine to you.

 

>As indicated in your

>website, Viagra starts to work in 30 mins, and doesn't reach

>its peak effect for an hour. One would therefore be silly to

>take it at the start of a 60 or 90-minute session. Even the

>online Viagra sites have a doctor with a medical license

>backing it up.

 

Perhaps it's PEAK effect might take an hour but it GOES into effect within half an hour. I don't know about you but when I meet someone even for hourly I don't walk in and shove my dick in their hole. Judging by some of your responses it would appear you might be the type of client that meets someone, closes the door, and takes off their pants...or perhaps you dont have them on to begin with?

 

Any escort that's young enough to have the body you're hiring will feel the effects much quicker as the drug was designed for people with *dysfunctional* erectile experiences. I mean, I get my dick rubbed and I'm hard .... the viagra is just to keep it that way if I want to make sure.

 

>A client may not give an escort a prescription

>medication unless he's licensed to prescribe (i.e. an MD, NP,

>or PA).

 

GIVE ME A BREAK! You haven't taken a friend's Vicodin or a sleeping pill? Not to sound like a pill popper but people share presciptions all the time. To have an expectation that ONLY people who prescribe medication distribute it is ludicrous.

 

>Yes, it does have to do with shame. You wouldn't object if

>some hot guy was pawing you. You're being honest when you say

>that you just don't want people knowing you're an escort.

>Butcha are, Blanche.

 

LOL. PAWING at me? Do you PAW at your escorts in public? If I'm drunk and dancing on the floor with my shirt off, OF COURSE somebody is going to paw. If I'm having dinner and walking around the city ... uh no. Who DOES that? Is there an expectation that I'm DRUNK and free spirited while maintaining an erection now?

 

>And since your face and body are posted

>on the worldwide web as an escort, you're not discreet about

>it either (not that there's anything wrong about that).

 

There is a BIG difference between posting a picture where there's an "expectation" that the only people seeing it are the ones that you want to and broadcasting your business to the world.

 

>As

>for the client worrying about whether other people might think

>he's hired an escort, that's up to the client to decide.

>Throughout history, there have been many goodlooking women or

>men who've hooked up with less attractive or older gentlemen

>(or women) for financial or status reasons.

 

And people are always criticized for it. It's common in society but everyone is talking about them behind their back. The point is, the escort is a person too and THEY have a right to decide if they're comfortable with what people might think or interpret. It's not all up to you. You can ASK but don't ASSUME it's ok.

 

>Look at the late

>Princess Diana, and look at Madonna's boytoys.

 

Both fabulous women surrounded by hot gay men, Madonna her boytoys and Diana her sons....well a guy can dream can't he?

 

>If someone

>hires you for X number of hours, all you have to do is be nice

>to him for X number of hours. It ain't that difficult.

 

Being nice and holding hands or having your ass rubbed on a public street are QUITE different. An escort ESCORTS (as in attends and is present for), if you want to hire a personal living doll there are other ways of handling it I'm sure. The assumption without question is the problem I'm explaining.

 

>>It's not the ALARM aspect. I don't have a house phone ... I

>>have one phone number. I happen to guard the secret of my

>>phone number well. The problem is for other escorts who get

>>crystal meth head clients calling at four in the morning.

>>It's rude.

>

>I don't understand your whole crystal meth thing. Obviously,

>if every Tom, Dick, and Harry has your phone number, it's not

>a guarded secret.

 

Meth heads are up at all hours due to the drugs they're on. They also happen to be frequent in the "market" as it were. They are too drugged up to have a concept of what time it is. Or as a non drug user (I'm assuming) are you saying that if you wake up at 4 AM you wouldn't think twice about calling someone off of HooBoy to run right over?

 

As to my phone number. Do you have it? Only people I see regularly and people I'm comfortable with on a first meeting have it. Again, I referenced OTHER escorts who get calls at 3,4, and 5 in the morning. It's just rude and classless.

 

>I've never paid (or co-paid) a doctor or attorney in advance,

>nor have I heard of one who asked for cash in advance.

 

What's your insurance agency. I doubt you have no co-pay unless you are THAT wealthy to have house calls Most attorneys probably at least expect to know HOW you are going to pay them beforehand, not expecting the money up front. Likewise, I'm not saying pay me in advance (so not ok if an escort does that to you -- run if it happens), I'm saying make the money visible and available so there's not going to be a question as to payment. In 5 star hotels this is usually a foregone conclusion but ironically those clients are the ones that HAVE the money on the table ... to demonstrate that they trust me and they're giving ME a reason to trust them.

 

>Though

>I guess bankruptcy attorneys probably do. I've always

>wondered how bankruptcy attorneys make money. Maybe they let

>their clients charge their visits before they have their

>clients default on their credit card payments???

 

I'd imagine there are contractual payments scheduled long term. Although, I know there are a BUNCH of more qualified people to answer questions that one here.

[Guest]

>>>ANY doctor will give it to you if you say

>>>you need it in lieu of unsafe sex.

>>

>>I don't understand your last sentence.

>

>If you go to your doctor and say, "As a gay man and in this

>era of rampant disease, it scares me to think that I can't

>maintain a solid erection to put on a condom. Is there

>anything that you can give me to ensure that I'm not left with

>the option of unsafe sex?" Provided you're not on conflicting

>meds a doctor would be remiss to not offer some form of "ED"

>medicine to you.

>

I don't think you have to come up with such a silly story to get a doctor to prescribe Viagra (or whatever) for you (although a workup is needed before prescribing it). Obviously if you're the inserter, then if you're hard enough to pass someone's anal sphincter, you're hard enough to wear a condom. If you're the receiver, then Viagra has nothing to do with safe or unsafe sex. If you gave that story to your doctor, he probably groaned internally when he heard it. The Viagra class of medications are not controlled substances, so physicians do not have any responsibility to avoid drug diversion (as they do for Valium or Vicodin, for instance). All one should have to do is advise the doctor that one has a problem keeping the erection, and the doctor's responsibility is to rule out any treatable cause (although erection difficulties in a 20 year-old are distinctly unusual).

 

>Judging by some of your responses it would

>appear you might be the type of client that meets someone,

>closes the door, and takes off their pants...or perhaps you

>dont have them on to begin with?

>

Like most clients, I hire most of my escorts for an hour. We might have a few minutes' chit-chat, but 90% of the time we'll be naked on the bed together within 5 minutes, and I'm sure that's what happens with 90% of client-escort encounters. I hire escorts to have sex, not to get to know them. If I'm going to have pillow-talk, I'd rather do that after the sex, during the "recovery period."

 

>Any escort that's young enough to have the body you're hiring

>will feel the effects much quicker as the drug was designed

>for people with *dysfunctional* erectile experiences. I mean,

>I get my dick rubbed and I'm hard .... the viagra is just to

>keep it that way if I want to make sure.

>

I suspect that Viagra's effect on you is mostly psychological/placebo effect if you're noticing an effect in the first 30 minutes. Most 20 year-olds don't have any trouble getting or maintaining an erection at any time.

 

>>A client may not give an escort a prescription

>>medication unless he's licensed to prescribe (i.e. an MD,

>NP,

>>or PA).

>

>GIVE ME A BREAK! You haven't taken a friend's Vicodin or a

>sleeping pill? Not to sound like a pill popper but people

>share presciptions all the time.

 

I said "may not," not "cannot." Obviously you can shoot someone in the head with a shotgun. The fact than you can do something doesn't make it legal or safe. I haven't taken anyone else's Vicodin, in part because I don't find it helpful (OTC Aleve works better, quite frankly). Also, I don't think the medical board would be too happy if it knew I was self-prescribing controlled substances. Taking another person's medication isn't as dangerous as shooting someone in the head with a shotgun, obviously. However, it's illegal unless the recipient or giver of the medication is a licensed prescriber, and it can be dangerous if the people involved don't know what they're doing. (Viagra-type drugs do have their contraindications and drug interactions, for example)

 

>There is a BIG difference between posting a picture where

>there's an "expectation" that the only people seeing it are

>the ones that you want to and broadcasting your business to

>the world.

>

You may find your expectation isn't quite reality. Lots of people look at pictures of escorts even if they have no intention to hire them. If you think that the only people who look at escort websites are potential clients, you need a reality check. And if you date someone, how long do you think you can keep your job a secret from him? Unless you're a skilled spinner of complex lies (which you're not), you're goign to have to tell your date pretty early on in the process. Some guys might actually find it hot. Those who don't find it hot probably aren't going to be long-term dates, anyways (and one-time sexual encounters are very unlikely to care either way).

 

 

>Meth heads are up at all hours due to the drugs they're on.

>They also happen to be frequent in the "market" as it were.

>They are too drugged up to have a concept of what time it is.

>Or as a non drug user (I'm assuming) are you saying that if

>you wake up at 4 AM you wouldn't think twice about calling

>someone off of HooBoy to run right over?

>

I'm not saying that it's polite to call someone at 4 AM unless the person says it's OK. What I'm saying is that since the reality (according to your report) is that this is happenning to you, you should silence your cell phone at night or stop complaining about it. It's like people who go to the doctor and say "My head hurts when I do XYZ." The solution is to stop doing XYZ.

 

>

>>I've never paid (or co-paid) a doctor or attorney in

>advance,

>>nor have I heard of one who asked for cash in advance.

>

>What's your insurance agency. I doubt you have no co-pay

>unless you are THAT wealthy to have house calls Most

>attorneys probably at least expect to know HOW you are going

>to pay them beforehand, not expecting the money up front.

 

My doctors have never asked me to "show me the money" before they performed a service. Nor do my lawyers, car shops, restaurants, or most of my escorts. The only service people I've worked with who want money up-front are those who need money to begin the work they're doing, generally during long-term tasks. For example, when I had my deck repaired, I had to pay for the materials in advance, and the labor was an as-you-go payment, because he had to pay his workers.

[Curmudgeon]

>My doctors have never asked me to "show me the money" before

>they performed a service.

 

With an established relationship, that's possible. And it's also more likely in a smaller town. My own primary care physician will defer the fee if asked, but not until after the receptionist has asked for payment. They also have copies of the insurance card on file from my first visit, and wouldn't see me until that was done.

 

I've (unfortunately) been in a number of physicians' offices in the last few months for the first time. EVERY ONE of them has a sign posted that they expect the co-pay to be paid on arrival, and the receptionist will always ask for payment.

 

This analogy just doesn't hold up in the real world.

 

 

The problem with making something foolproof is the universe keeps making better fools.

[SAdler]

>I don't think you have to come up with such a silly story to

>get a doctor to prescribe Viagra (or whatever) for you

>(although a workup is needed before prescribing it).

 

You don't have to, but it's easier. Particularly for us "young'ins" we need a REASON .... hence your workup. I've gotten several prescriptions with nothing more than this, no work up required.

 

>Obviously if you're the inserter, then if you're hard enough

>to pass someone's anal sphincter, you're hard enough to wear a

>condom.

 

In theory. Some people get self conscious or intimidated and lose their hard-on. You can put the condom on but you you don't always STAY hard.

 

>If you're the receiver, then Viagra has nothing to do

>with safe or unsafe sex.

 

Yes but again, you as the client are expecting the escort to stay hard through the entire session. Once they're initially erect, the viagra will help them. Since I advertise as a top I take it as MY responsibility to medicate myself. In the case of erection EXPECTATION by a client, it's their job to offer if it's that big a deal to them.

 

>If you gave that story to your

>doctor, he probably groaned internally when he heard it. The

>Viagra class of medications are not controlled substances, so

>physicians do not have any responsibility to avoid drug

>diversion (as they do for Valium or Vicodin, for instance).

 

She didn't groan and she was happy I was making a mature and safe decision rather than fucking without rubbers. They do have to make sure there aren't any severe heart problems and meds and especially Nitrates. Are you sure you know this topic so well?

 

>All one should have to do is advise the doctor that one has a

>problem keeping the erection, and the doctor's responsibility

>is to rule out any treatable cause (although erection

>difficulties in a 20 year-old are distinctly unusual).

 

Treatable cause aka therapy. If you ask for Viagra they'll give it you. Doesn't mean your insurance covers it

 

>Like most clients, I hire most of my escorts for an hour. We

>might have a few minutes' chit-chat, but 90% of the time we'll

>be naked on the bed together within 5 minutes, and I'm sure

>that's what happens with 90% of client-escort encounters. I

>hire escorts to have sex, not to get to know them. If I'm

>going to have pillow-talk, I'd rather do that after the sex,

>during the "recovery period."

 

Again. I take my Viagra when I start getting ready for a client that I know I'll be topping/needing it for. Just as a precautionary expense; see Taylor, even hobbies have costs If they take it IMMEDIATELY upon walking in there shouldn't be a problem by the time you get to penetration with the half hour rule There, thanks for proving my point. That is, unless you get off in twenty minutes, I like to make my hourly sex go longer than fifteen minutes

 

>I suspect that Viagra's effect on you is mostly

>psychological/placebo effect if you're noticing an effect in

>the first 30 minutes. Most 20 year-olds don't have any

>trouble getting or maintaining an erection at any time.

 

Tried the placebo effect theory. My arm was SOOOOO tired by the end of the night. Never had a problem with it in the field Trust me, twenty year olds can have trouble maintaining an erection especially if they're maintained the erection several times in the same day Again I reiterate, that's not MY style but to each their own.

>

>>>A client may not give an escort a prescription

>>>medication unless he's licensed to prescribe (i.e. an MD,

>>NP,

>>>or PA).

>>

>>GIVE ME A BREAK! You haven't taken a friend's Vicodin or a

>>sleeping pill? Not to sound like a pill popper but people

>>share presciptions all the time.

>

>I said "may not," not "cannot."

 

Yeah. You said may not and I construed that as a "we don't have permission. Apparently my mistake.

 

>Obviously you can

>shoot someone in the head with a shotgun. The fact than you

>can do something doesn't make it legal or safe. I

>haven't taken anyone else's Vicodin, in part because I don't

>find it helpful (OTC Aleve works better, quite frankly).

 

Tell me that when you've fallen off YOUR motorcycle. You'll down a bottle of Aleve before the effects of two good Vicodins are in your system.

 

>Also, I don't think the medical board would be too happy if it

>knew I was self-prescribing controlled substances. Taking

>another person's medication isn't as dangerous as shooting

>someone in the head with a shotgun, obviously. However, it's

>illegal unless the recipient or giver of the medication is a

>licensed prescriber, and it can be dangerous if the people

>involved don't know what they're doing. (Viagra-type drugs do

>have their contraindications and drug interactions, for

>example)

 

There's a piece called MORAL ENTREPRENEURS by Howard Becker I suggest you read. It's fascinating and it's as if he's writing ust about you when he discusses informal rule enforcers. Not your place to be telling me what the medical board has a problem with. If they have a problem, they'll address it with me. Although I think it IS funny that above you SPECIFICALLY say ... well here let me paste it:

 

>The

>Viagra class of medications are not controlled substances, so

>physicians do not have any responsibility to avoid drug

>diversion (as they do for Valium or Vicodin, for instance).

 

Make up your mind please

 

>You may find your expectation isn't quite reality.

 

That's why I said "expectation" in quotes

 

>And if you date someone, how long do you think

>you can keep your job a secret from him?

 

Hobby

 

>Unless you're a

>skilled spinner of complex lies (which you're not), you're

>goign to have to tell your date pretty early on in the

>process.

 

You obviously don't know me very well or as some on the boards would think it's all I ever do

 

>Some guys might actually find it hot. Those who

>don't find it hot probably aren't going to be long-term dates,

>anyways (and one-time sexual encounters are very unlikely to

>care either way).

 

Thanks Dr. Ruth. I'll keep that in mind

 

>>Or as a non drug user (I'm assuming) are you saying that if

>>you wake up at 4 AM you wouldn't think twice about calling

>>someone off of HooBoy to run right over?

>>

>I'm not saying that it's polite to call someone at 4 AM unless

>the person says it's OK. What I'm saying is that since the

>reality (according to your report) is that this is happenning

>to you, you should silence your cell phone at night or stop

>complaining about it. It's like people who go to the doctor

>and say "My head hurts when I do XYZ." The solution is to

>stop doing XYZ.

 

You don't read very well because this will be my third or fourth time telling you that it DOESN'T happen to me. I don't post my phone number. I'm talking about people who do and DON'T have the option of turning off their phone.

 

>My doctors have never asked me to "show me the money" before

>they performed a service. Nor do my lawyers, car shops,

>restaurants, or most of my escorts. The only service people

>I've worked with who want money up-front are those who need

>money to begin the work they're doing, generally during

>long-term tasks. For example, when I had my deck repaired, I

>had to pay for the materials in advance, and the labor was an

>as-you-go payment, because he had to pay his workers.

 

I think Curmudgeon covered this one quite well. Thanks!

[Guest]

>She didn't groan and she was happy I was making a mature and

>safe decision rather than fucking without rubbers.

 

We doctors are skilled and keeping a straight face even if we're experiencing strong emotions. I'm sure she didn't audibly groan, but I bet that the next time she was in the doctors' lounge, she said "You wouldn't believe what this guy thought he had to tell me to get Viagra!"

 

>Tried the placebo effect theory.

 

The only way to try the placebo effect is to have someone give you Viagra 12 times, and a placebo 12 times and not tell you which is which until the conclusion of the study. That's the only way to factor in the placebo effect.

 

>Tell me that when you've fallen off YOUR motorcycle. You'll

>down a bottle of Aleve before the effects of two good Vicodins

>are in your system.

>

Actually, multiple studies on multiple NSAIDS such as Aleve or Advil have all come to the same conclusion that NSAIDS are more effective than Vicodin or Tylenol #3 at relieving pain. This includes dental and minor surgery studies.

 

 

>>And if you date someone, how long do you think

>>you can keep your job a secret from him?

>

>Hobby

>

Well, it doesn't matter what you call it. Unless you see fewer than four one-hour appointments per week, however, I strongly suspect that escorting is a major source of income for you.

 

>>Unless you're a

>>skilled spinner of complex lies (which you're not), you're

>>goign to have to tell your date pretty early on in the

>>process.

>

>You obviously don't know me very well or as some on the boards

>would think it's all I ever do

>

I think the point is that the consensus seems to be that you aren't skilled at it (if you were, everyone wouldn't know you were lying).

 

>>My doctors have never asked me to "show me the money" before

>>they performed a service. Nor do my lawyers, car shops,

>>restaurants, or most of my escorts. The only service people

>>I've worked with who want money up-front are those who need

>>money to begin the work they're doing, generally during

>>long-term tasks. For example, when I had my deck repaired,

>I

>>had to pay for the materials in advance, and the labor was

>an

>>as-you-go payment, because he had to pay his workers.

>

>I think Curmudgeon covered this one quite well. Thanks!

 

Actually, that's a new one on me. I've never heard of a doctor asking for cash in advance. It may be more common than I knew of, but I still think it's probably the exception rather than the rule.

[SAdler]

>We doctors are skilled and keeping a straight face even if

>we're experiencing strong emotions. I'm sure she didn't

>audibly groan, but I bet that the next time she was in the

>doctors' lounge, she said "You wouldn't believe what this guy

>thought he had to tell me to get Viagra!"

 

LOL. I go through a School Health Plan. They're not generous of pills. She asked for a reason, I gave it to her. She was a former hippie chick type that got into a half hour chat with me after the fact talking to me about it. You assume too much and make commentary that is way off base, but I guess Unicorns are all about fantasy now aren't they

>

>>Tried the placebo effect theory.

>

>The only way to try the placebo effect is to have someone give

>you Viagra 12 times, and a placebo 12 times and not tell you

>which is which until the conclusion of the study. That's the

>only way to factor in the placebo effect.

 

That may be the "policy" and rule of the placebo effect for modern science but the concept is still there. I've used Viagra enough times to know when I've had a physiological influence rather than a mental effect. It's the side effects that tell you it's working (That was a joke in case you were expecting to have a bitchy come back)

 

>>Tell me that when you've fallen off YOUR motorcycle. You'll

>>down a bottle of Aleve before the effects of two good

>Vicodins

>>are in your system.

>>

>Actually, multiple studies on multiple NSAIDS such as Aleve or

>Advil have all come to the same conclusion that NSAIDS are

>more effective than Vicodin or Tylenol #3 at relieving pain.

>This includes dental and minor surgery studies.

>

That very well may be a VERY accurate form of the placebo effect considering the mind is the source of pain, C-Fibers firing and what not. But it works for me and to each their own. And Tylenol 3? That I doubt considering the codeine content knocks you out so you don't even feel the pain

 

>>>And if you date someone, how long do you think

>>>you can keep your job a secret from him?

>>

>>Hobby

>>

>Well, it doesn't matter what you call it. Unless you see

>fewer than four one-hour appointments per week, however, I

>strongly suspect that escorting is a major source of income

>for you.

 

Well you again don't know me very well. I don't see more than two or three session appointments per week. Most of the time I don't even see ONE person a week. Escorting is the art on my walls and the LV on my luggage. It's an investment for my future and the occasional luxury gift to myself when I think I deserve it.

>

 

>I think the point is that the consensus seems to be that you

>aren't skilled at it (if you were, everyone wouldn't know you

>were lying).

 

Perhaps you missed the cynical nature of that comment. I was saying they would all have you believe all I do is lie. In fact, I was noting that I don't lie and come clean if I'm caught in one, or smething that is assumed to be a lie.

 

>Actually, that's a new one on me. I've never heard of a

>doctor asking for cash in advance. It may be more common than

>I knew of, but I still think it's probably the exception

>rather than the rule.

 

Hmmm. If something is more common than you thought and you were contesting that YOU were always the truth, wouldn't that make YOUR situation the exception to the rule?

[Curmudgeon]

>Actually, that's a new one on me. I've never heard of a

>doctor asking for cash in advance. It may be more common than

>I knew of, but I still think it's probably the exception

>rather than the rule.

 

You either have full-coverage health insurance, or very lenient doctors. Or, as I said, you live in a smaller town where things are run a little more "loose".

 

Co-pays and deductibles are always requested up front. I recently had a CT Scan and the hospital wouldn't even let me go to the radiology department until the deductible was taken care of.

 

Welcome to modern-day health care.

 

 

 

The problem with making something foolproof is the universe keeps making better fools.

[Guest]

Not just lenient doctors, but lenient hospitals, outpatient centers (i.e. radiology centers), and ER's, all of which my partner and I have had to deal with in the last few years. Our city is not small, although we don't exactly live in the inner city.

[Guest]

>LOL. I go through a School Health Plan. They're not generous

>of pills. She asked for a reason, I gave it to her. She was

>a former hippie chick type that got into a half hour chat with

>me after the fact talking to me about it.

 

I guess they are generous enough to pay a health care provider half an hour to chit-chat (I've never met a health care provider with that luxury in my travels to medical conferences, etc.). I'm sure all you have to tell her (or him) is that you have trouble maintaining an erection long enough to have satisfactory sex. You can skip the silly story.

 

 

>Perhaps you missed the cynical nature of that comment. I was

>saying they would all have you believe all I do is lie. In

>fact, I was noting that I don't lie and come clean if I'm

>caught in one, or smething that is assumed to be a lie.

>

Coming clean when you get caught in a lie is in no way a sign of honesty. In fact, the very phrase "...I don't lie..." is a lie, because you just admit a few words later in the exact same sentence that you come clean when you're caught in one, for God's sake. You remind me of some of these jackass drug addicts I see sometimes who lie to me about their drug use, then, when I catch them in the lie say "You're right, doc, I did do some meth the other day. I admit it! I wouldn't lie to you!" Ten seconds after I catch them lying, they just can't help themselves but to compound it with another lie (namely, "I wouldn't lie to you," in case you're slow on the uptake).

 

 

 

>Hmmm. If something is more common than you thought and you

>were contesting that YOU were always the truth, wouldn't that

>make YOUR situation the exception to the rule?

>

You need to take some basic logic courses. If collecting cash in advance happens 15% of the time, it's still more common than I thought, but still the exception rather than the norm. (Again, I don't know how many docs demand cash in advance. The fact that it ever happens at all comes as a surprise to me).

[SAdler]

>I guess they are generous enough to pay a health care provider

>half an hour to chit-chat (I've never met a health care

>provider with that luxury in my travels to medical

>conferences, etc.). I'm sure all you have to tell her (or

>him) is that you have trouble maintaining an erection long

>enough to have satisfactory sex. You can skip the silly

>story.

 

No, she just likes me and tells me that on the rare occasion she has an appointment directly aftermine she sends the nurse in to do "more" tests on them instead of going herself to talk to them. Nope, wrong again. They wanted to send me to therapy for that. When I made it a possible CDC issue she said let's just do the viagra. Only gave me 10 50's but even paying the retail value since my insurance covers it is worth the price of a bad review. Not saying it's my responsibility, just professional courtesy; but if the escort staying hard is your chief priority maybe one should consider having a supply on hand.

>

>Coming clean when you get caught in a lie is in no way a sign

>of honesty. In fact, the very phrase "...I don't lie..." is a

>lie, because you just admit a few words later in the exact

>same sentence that you come clean when you're caught in one,

>for God's sake. You remind me of some of these jackass drug

>addicts I see sometimes who lie to me about their drug use,

>then, when I catch them in the lie say "You're right, doc, I

>did do some meth the other day. I admit it! I wouldn't lie

>to you!" Ten seconds after I catch them lying, they just

>can't help themselves but to compound it with another lie

>(namely, "I wouldn't lie to you," in case you're slow on the

>uptake).

>

So NOW you not only understand the druggie comments but are MAKING them yourself Make up your mind Uni I said I DONT LIE but people seem to THINK I am You should read my entire statement before you get bitchy about it. The only "lies" I've told haven't been "lies" per se, just concepts that were personal secrets. When I MYSELF uncovered the secret I was accused of being a liar. Was that too hard for you to follow? Ask Woodlawn, he'll explain it to you and probably even hijack this thread And there's really NO need for name calling.

>

>You need to take some basic logic courses. If collecting cash

>in advance happens 15% of the time, it's still more common

>than I thought, but still the exception rather than the norm.

>(Again, I don't know how many docs demand cash in advance.

>The fact that it ever happens at all comes as a surprise to

>me).

 

THATS THE POINT. It doesn't only happen 15% of the time except for in YOUR little world, thus YOU are the exception, not "us". I have NEVER encountered a doctor that doesn't expect a co-pay or something of some sort.

[jackhammer91406]

In Closing

 

Big D,

Your points are fair and I would expect only to add mutual respect to your list.

 

As for Unicorn and Scott, you guys need to get a room and finish this. heheh.}(

[woodlawn]

>You should read my

>entire statement before you get bitchy about it. The only

>"lies" I've told haven't been "lies" per se, just concepts

>that were personal secrets.

 

When you tell people something that isn't true in order to prevent them from learning something about you that is true -- for example telling a client you're of age when the truth is you are not -- that is indeed a lie. If people ask you a question you don't want to answer, you always have the option of telling them that you don't care to give them that information; nothing dishonest about that.

 

 

 

>When I MYSELF uncovered the

>secret I was accused of being a liar. Was that too hard for

>you to follow? Ask Woodlawn, he'll explain it to you and

>probably even hijack this thread

 

Actually it would be better to refer Unicorn to BoN, who has followed your saga in much greater detail that I have. Based on my rather sketchy recollection, BoN revealed on this board that you have had escort ads on the Web for so long that either you were escorting before you were 18 or you were not being truthful about your age in your current ads. I seem to recall that you first claimed the earliest ads were created by people who used your pictures without your permission but then you changed your story and said you had indeed been escorting while underage -- or was it both? Feel free to correct any errors in that account.

[SAdler]

>When you tell people something that isn't true in order to

>prevent them from learning something about you that is true --

>for example telling a client you're of age when the truth is

>you are not -- that is indeed a lie. If people ask you a

>question you don't want to answer, you always have the option

>of telling them that you don't care to give them that

>information; nothing dishonest about that.

 

Ah yes but omission is another form of lying. The fact is that no matter what you might say or think -- this little project of yours wouldn't have been an issue if I hadn't said anything about it. It's not something I was LYING about, it was, well, as you put it, some information I didn't care to give until that point. Nobody was being hurt, it wasn't an issue then nor is it now DESPITE all the speculation you might choose to utilize.

>

>Actually it would be better to refer Unicorn to BoN, who has

>followed your saga in much greater detail that I have.

 

Have you not been looped in? I know you responded shortly after my comment in the Mean Girl Cafeteria (my new term to refer to escortspeak) that BoN and I have "smoke'em de heap big peace pipe?" He's taken a step back to realize that his actions were beyond necessary, why can't you? Always B.S. heh heh.

 

>Based

>on my rather sketchy recollection, BoN revealed on this board

>that you have had escort ads on the Web for so long that

>either you were escorting before you were 18 or you were not

>being truthful about your age in your current ads. I seem to

>recall that you first claimed the earliest ads were created by

>people who used your pictures without your permission but then

>you changed your story and said you had indeed been escorting

>while underage -- or was it both? Feel free to correct any

>errors in that account.

 

There has been no discrepency on my part about the ads not being placed by me. I've even detailed the bulk of which ones they were. Regardless, I could have easily "dodged" the question as you indicated should have been my path but instead I felt the need to CLARIFY the situation instead.

 

The point is, I don't lie about things. I may not have brought them up but when something I've done is called into question, I don't deny it. Much like my situation in the Mean Girl Cafeteria with Erik. I was mistaken as to his background and I profusely apologized and admitted I was wrong. I wasn't perpetuating a LIE that I knew his life better than him, it was simply a misunderstanding on my part.

[+ deej]

Anchovies

 

Do you like anchovies on your pizza?

[Epigonos]

RE: Anchovies

 

Yes!!!!! YES!!!!! I gotta have anchovies on my pizza. Most of the world thinks I'm nuts and even most of the people making my pizzas kinda gag. But damn I do love that salty fishy flavor. I also want mushrooms and sausage.

[SAdler]

RE: Anchovies

 

>Do you like anchovies on your pizza?

 

They're smelly and rancid ... I loathe their existence ...

[+ deej]

RE: Anchovies

 

When I was a student, one of my profs used to take a crowd out for pizza routinely. The crowd was big enough we'd usually order several large pizzas. He ALWAYS wanted anchovies on at least one pizza.

 

We finally convinced the pizza joint to just give him a dish of anchovies on the side so he could put 'em on just the slices he ate. He LOVED it because he could get them as concentrated (or not) as he wanted. The rest of us were relieved because we didn't have to taste it.

 

(And since we were poor college students and he was paying the bill, this was a major win! ;-))

[+ deej]

RE: Anchovies

 

Once every 10 years or so I try 'em on a half of a pizza. Once I've had a taste, I'm done for another 10 years.

 

It's a very acquired taste, and one that is sated VERY easily. :7

[woodlawn]

>Ah yes but omission is another form of lying.

 

Is it? So if you omitted to tell clients you were underage back in the day, you were lying to them? Okay, if you say so.

 

> The fact is

>that no matter what you might say or think -- this little

>project of yours wouldn't have been an issue if I hadn't said

>anything about it.

 

As I recall, you only said something about it because BoN's posts forced you to do so.

 

>It's not something I was LYING about, it

>was, well, as you put it, some information I didn't care to

>give until that point. Nobody was being hurt, it wasn't an

>issue then nor is it now DESPITE all the speculation you might

>choose to utilize.

 

Scott, unless I have greatly misinterpreted what you have written here on this subject, the fact is that you engaged in prostitution while underage and without informing your clients of that rather important fact. Is that not correct?

 

I think you and everyone else reading these words knows quite well that when it comes to lies, what clients are concerned about is the lies escorts tell to induce them to hire someone who is not what they want or someone who does not do what they want. I really don't think anyone can seriously assert that most clients in this country would want an escort to lie about or conceal from them the fact that he is underage. That is a risk many clients would not care to take, and even those who would want to take it would prefer to make the decision themselves rather than have someone else make it for them. You can dispute that if you wish, but I really don't think anyone will believe you.

 

 

> He's taken a step back to realize that his

>actions were beyond necessary, why can't you?

 

I have not seen any post by BoN stating that he did anything in this matter that he regrets. If you would care to direct me to such a post I will be happy to read it. But whatever he says, neither he nor you gets to decide what I post on this or any subject, nor do I need to justify what I post to you.

 

 

>There has been no discrepency on my part about the ads not

>being placed by me. I've even detailed the bulk of which ones

>they were.

 

So if I understand you, the story is that some of the escort ads posted while you were underage were NOT posted by you, while others WERE posted by you? Just trying to get this straight in case it comes up again.

 

 

>Regardless, I could have easily "dodged" the

>question

 

Indeed you could. Just as you dodged the question I asked you recently. I noted your post on Escortspeak complaining that you do not like being lied to and asked you whether it ever crossed your mind that the clients you lied to might feel the same way. I don't recall seeing your answer to that question.

[noviceny]

RE: Anchovies

 

I LOVE ANCHOVIES !!!!!!!!

 

Introduced to them as a kid (they were hidden in zeppoli that my mom made) I have always loved them...love em on my pizza but my pussy ass friends wont let me get them cause they cant stand the smell...notice that I let them bring along their girlfriends and never make a comment about the fishy scent coming off of them:-) :-) :-)

 

The only thing I hate is that they are marinated in a can or jar with olive oil...I always try to blot of the extra oil, as I do with pizza cause its just a bit too much

 

I love anchovies and I also always have them put on my Ceaser salad...and I ask for an extra side

 

I also have them in omeletes

[Epigonos]

RE: Anchovies

 

Noviceny what a fantastic idea. As I said earlier I love anchovies on pizza but NEVER consid in the omelet?