Prop 8 Donor Boycott

[seaboy4hire]

I think the best way to do a boycott is to pick a few of the weakest or near weakest companies and boycott them. By doing this I think it shows just how important our dollars are, that every dollar helps to help make a company grow and survive. I have seen this happen with union collective bargaining to get their point across. I am hoping that who ever finalizes this will take this into consideration.

 

Hugs,

Greg

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Three months and counting!

[RockHard]

RE: Cheap, cheap...cheap, cheap, cheap, cheap, cheap.

 

Marriott and Priceline? Girls, can we get any more low rent? You sure won't find those phone numbers in my scandalous address book (or Bookmarked).

[RockHard]

CA Theater Director Resigns. Gave $1000 to Prop 8.

 

Marc Shaiman gave him a good tongue lashing, too. Scott Eckern will never work in show business again.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/13/theater/13thea.html

[AdamSmith]

RE: Cheap, cheap...cheap, cheap, cheap, cheap, cheap.

 

>my email address is on a leading list which includes

>powerful, prominent gay New Yorkers

 

My house is in a neighborhood which includes properties worth more than $10 million.

 

Mine, regrettably, is not quite one of them.

 

>Marriott and Priceline? Girls, can we get any more low rent?

 

Let me try to come close:

 

A year ago, opening the envelope on a new Starwood Preferred Guest card, I was delighted to find splashed across it, in word and image, none other than -- the lovely Hotel Cala di Volpe!

 

Send for the plonk. :9

[seaboy4hire]

RE: CA Theater Director Resigns. Gave $1000 to Prop 8.

 

From the article: Mr. Eckern said. “It was not my intent. I honestly had no idea that this would be the reaction.”

 

What kind of reaction was he expecting from those in his field? Is he not mentally all there or something? He made his bed and now he must lie in it.

 

Hugs,

Greg

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Three months and counting!

[RockHard]

RE: Not cheap.

 

"My house is in a neighborhood which includes properties worth more than $10 million.

 

Mine too. Mine may not be worth 10 mil but, considering what I paid for it over 20 years ago, I certainly have no regrets.

 

"Starwood Preferred Guest card

 

I'm not a member but business friends speak very highly of Starwood's services to frequent users. I'm told Starwood provides access to some lovely properties in Paris, Florence and Venice. And then there's the lovely Cala di Volpe in Sardinia. None of these luxury choices are Marriott's.

 

I do collect frequent flyer miles but I end up giving tickets as gifts. My desire to hop on a plane is waning.

 

I never got into hotel points and it's probably because someone else pays or I don't stay in a specific one often enough, and discounter programs won't guarantee specific hotel rooms. If I'm going to stay in a grand hotel and pay for it myself, I want to be sure the room will be a special treasure. I maintain a list of the best room numbers in my favorite places to stay. Sometimes it's worth paying a fee to join an exclusive internet forum.

[RockHard]

RE: CA Theater Director Resigns. Gave $1000 to Prop 8.

 

"He made his bed and now he must lie in it.

 

I agree. And doesn't that hold true for all of us.

[Guest n2colour]

As you say, it should be about "informed choices." Those promoting this boycott, and some following its recommendations in lock-step formation, have overlooked the "informed" part. Some of the names I've seen include companies like Latham & Watkins, DeLoitte, Cisco, Intel, American Express, and Bank of America (to name just a few) that made no corporate contributions to Yes on 8. All of those companies scored 100% according to the latest Human Rights Campaign Corporate Equality Index. As did Marriott, btw, which is apparently the list simply because Bill Marriott happens to be a Mormon.

[Guest n2colour]

RE: It's not my boycott. I'm just the messenger.

 

That your sources provided you the list that you passed along I have little doubt. That neither they nor you performed any due diligence before passing along the list is also obvious. When making accusations, it is usually helpful if one makes the effort to be reasonably accurate.

[RockHard]

RE: It's not my boycott. I'm just the messenger.

 

"That neither they nor you performed any due diligence"

 

Well, there's the problem. I didn't "assume" that "they" did not perform due diligence because when you assume you make an ass of u and me.

 

Certain sources you can trust, others you can disregard. I don't receive spam on my private email account. If someone is going to send me something to that address, it typically means it has value.

 

Therefore, I trusted my sources and the list sent to me compares well with other lists in circulation. So, the intent of your post, I haven't a clue. If you're looking for precise "reasonable" accuracy, perform your own due diligence. Is anyone stopping you?

[RockHard]

Dan Savage takes on Tony Perkins via Anderson Cooper.

 

Dan Savage took on Tony Perkins last night on Anderson Cooper 360. I have to give Dan props for keeping his cool and actually listening to the opposition and responding with lightening fast responses. At one point Dan accuses Perkins of filibuster but it's actually Dan who cuts off Perkins first and then never lets up. "You strip me of my rights and I interrupt you, who's really suffering here?" Effective line, Dan.

 

(Whoopi Goldberg leads the protest at Mormon Temple NYC)

 

Considering it was Anderson Cooper's interview, he really flunked, IMO. He didn't take control of the dialogue and, more important, he failed to provide enough substantive time to give what this worthy debate truly deserves. Too bad.

 

As I said in another thread, this fight is structured in a way that inevitably pits gay people against gay people of faith, the Church, organized religion, and religious sacraments that are centuries old. What a shame. The fight really should be about stripping the word "marriage" from the U.S. government so that all unions or partnerships can be treated with equal legal status. But we already know that won't happen. So then the fight centers itself on some perceived constitutional equality and basically says "fuck you" to the centuries old sacramental use of the word. It says to the great religions of the world, "We're taking your word 'marriage' and we're forcing the U.S. Courts to determine that the word should include people of the same sex. Therefore, you the Church, and all your ages old traditions can go fuck yourself and you can come up with a new term to bless committed unions under your roof while you continue to deny gay people acceptance in your Church.

 

My those atheists are pushy people with a lot of nerve.

 

The Church certainly has its list of reformers throughout history. I wonder if the new gay Martin Luther is waiting in the wings?

[SAdler]

RE: Not cheap.

 

>I'm not a member but business friends speak very highly of

>Starwood's services to frequent users. I'm told Starwood

>provides access to some lovely properties in Paris, Florence

>and Venice. And then there's the lovely Cala di Volpe in

>Sardinia. None of these luxury choices are Marriott's.

 

Yes Rock Head but Starwood DOES include many Le Meridiens (my trip to SF), Westins (my recent trip to DC) and W's (several hits nationwide) which Priceline has gotten astonishing rates for me at. Let's also not forget my trips to London this summer when I got the St James Sofitel for $210/night when the rack rate is 405 GBP.

 

My recent Priceline stay in New Orleans (though cut short because of Gustav) was at the Canal St. Marriott for $65/night and it was one of the top luxury choices of the city. Get your head out of your ass and get over yourself when you have no idea what you're talking about .

 

>I never got into hotel points and it's probably because

>someone else pays or I don't stay in a specific one often

>enough, and discounter programs won't guarantee specific hotel

>rooms.

 

Last I checked (or depending on the program) hotel points programs work like frequent flyers where the name registered on the room (or flying) is eligible for the points. Quite often a client offers me the points at Starwood and just adds me to the room if they don't use that particular program. As to not guaranteeing a specific room; of course not, that's the point. You can choose your area and number of stars -- that tends to take care of the risk of a sub-par location.

 

No matter what price I pay on Priceline all it takes is a little friendliness and courtesy (I know ... really foreign concepts for some in this subthread) upon check in will get you just about anything you want in terms of room location and often times an upgrade.

[RockHard]

Oh, puhleeeze.

 

"Get your head out of your ass and get over yourself"

 

Got mirror?

 

Oh, honey, as Bill Maher likes to say, I kid all those Marriott/Priceline point-loving, low-rent cheapos. I hope all that defensive blather makes you feel richer. How much are those Viagra's, again?

 

ps Thanks for the hotel "point" lesson. Maybe I should have stressed the part about my not caring about discounts.

[SAdler]

RE: Oh, puhleeeze.

 

;-)

[BgMstr4u]

RE: Dan Savage takes on Tony Perkins via Anderson Cooper.

 

Well, you could do worse than Bishop Gene Robinson for that role. Talk about putting it all on the line!

[+ Tygerscent]

Ya... I posted a bunch of businesses for the whole boycott idea and then had to rethink all of that. I mean Kroger alone includes GNC, Fred Meyers, Albertsons, QFC and a bunch of other stores. The problem with the whole boycott deal is that thousands of employees who are not Mormon or voted on Prop 8 will suffer as a result of any boycott attempt... single mothers with kids, students, all kinds of people who really had nothing to do with prop 8 or supporting it. Not really fair to do something to them that might effect their livelihood over something some other people were responsible for.

I'm bailing on the boycott idea and thinking of some other more productive ways to approach it all. I might still be in agreement that the Mormon church has become a Lobbying group and should loose their tax exampt status~

And again... seems like this became a "Gay" issue when really it is about Basic equal rights for ALL citizens who choose to cohabitate as partners. It should be a Civil and Human Rights issue and not a "gay" issue~

Tyger!

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[seaboy4hire]

I was thinking the thing with these companies listed above is did the company, CEO, COO or someone from their boards give money? For example I shop Kroger (QFC) exclusively. I searched to see if the CEO of Ralph's in SoCal gave money and I couldn't come up with anything. So IF there were to be a nation wide boycott on these companies there has to be a lot of serious research on who in the these companies gave money. If it was Sally the checker at the local Kroger I don't really think that is a call for a boycott as it isn't a high profile figure in the company. On a some what happier note during my search I found that the former CEO of Ralph's and Mellisa Ethridge help a multi million dollar fundraiser against prop 8.

 

Hugs,

Greg

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Three months and counting!

[KMEM]

Greg-

 

Either you missed the point or I did. I think they are saying the Morman church or Mormans have an interst (meaning financial interest) in the companies being mentioned for boycotting or are in high management or both.

 

With the economy and stock market in a downward spiral it might be difficult to know what is causing a loss of business without demonstrations, frequent and pointed reminders from the boycotters and other reminders. Even then it might be difficult to assess the value of the boycott by either side.

 

What is the objective of this boycott? To get the Morman church to make a public announcement that they will stay out of national and local affairs? As a church they no doubt see it as their duty to comment on what they perceive as "public morals". I don't think that should extend to funding PAC's or the equivalent.

 

What should the boycotted companies do? Restrict investment by various groups? What could be the results of the boycott to the companies? They go out of business? That just puts the employees out of work. That hurts all the investors, not just the Mormans. That hurts consumers but reducing the choice of places to do business. It might help their competitors who might now feel it is OK to raise prices with reduced competition.

 

It is difficult to have a boycott limited to just the offending ones, isn't it?

 

Best regards,

KMEM

[seaboy4hire]

No you are not getting the point. Unless it was a high exec or someone on the board or the company itself who gave money then there should be no boycott on the business. If some on here had there way they would be boycotting every business the Mormons had investments in who had nothing to do with prop 8. That hardly sounds effective to me and those businesses who might have Mormon investors could still be our allies. Sounds kind of silly to bite the hand that might feed us doesn't it? I think another way and it might prove interesting is to find a large gay investment group and for those that can afford it purchase (or however it works) large numbers of stocks from companies and high execs that SUPPORTED prop 8 and become active in the shareholder meetings.

 

Hugs,

Greg

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Three months and counting!

[jackhammer91406]

There is a story that is playing out here locally (Los Angeles) involving a popular and long standing restaurant called El Coyote.

One of the managers of the restaurant donated to the yes on 8 campaign and it became known here. The woman in question is a member of the family who owns the place and she is also a member of the Mormon church. There have been protests and marches and even a press conference where the manager tearfully explained that she was acting upon her faith and did not regret the donation. She has since disappeared from public view and a number of the employees have taken collections for anti prop 8 purposes.

 

Here's the point as I see it. The "church" invested heavily financially and intensely from the "pulpit" putting pressure on followers to contribute to the campaign. Now I have no problem with people exercising their rights to express opinions or to support political causes. What I do object to and I will fight is ANY effort by ANY organized religious group with non profit status when it becomes involved with ANY political process that concerns removing or blocking CIVIL RIGHTS for ANY individual or group. I have the right to shop where I want and buy what I want. Regardless of what ever name someone wants to call me, starting last week I am no longer shopping at Ralphs or any Kroger owned store. I am now shopping at Vons which is a bit more pricey but I feel good about my decision. Three weeks ago I bought a new personal computer . It happens it was a Dell, and if I could return it I would. Next week I will be buying two new computers for the office and they will not be Dell computers.

 

For the guy who suggested that no due diligence was done before these lists were posted, check the thread in the politics forum where I posted the expanded list over a week ago. Then take the time to Google Mormon business. Try to follow up on all the links in less than a week. there is a huge wealth of information from impartial sources. Do your OWN due diligence as I did, if you don't believe it.

 

I cannot be worried about the people who's jobs might be affected. They are not my responsibility and anyone who tries to tell me that my decision to follow the dictates of my conscience is treating others unfairly, well they can take collections to offset the loss of my little purchasing power. We all face circumstances not caused by our own actions. My beef is not with the checkout girl or the stockboy. My beef is with the CEO who blindly follows what the elders called for with out questioning whether I will be affected by his actions or whether my civil rights are violated. I am taking the recourse available to me and I have no guilt or regrets about it.

[Guest zipperzone]

Jackhammer: Very well put, my sentiments exactly. If innocent employees get hurt - well shit happens. Maybe they just work for the wrong company. Sounds callus? Perhaps, but I really don't care. I agree with those that say "no longer Mr Nice Guy".

[RockHard]

RE: Gays with brains.

 

"Here's the point as I see it. The "church" (I would have written "Mormon Church" because I believe it's not fair to lump all organized faiths into the same utterly offensive "Jesus freak" pot) invested heavily, financially and intensely from the "pulpit" putting pressure on followers to contribute to the campaign. Now I have no problem with people exercising their rights to express opinions or to support political causes. What I do object to and I will fight is ANY effort by ANY organized religious group with non profit status becoming involved with ANY political process that concerns removing or blocking CIVIL RIGHTS for ANY individual or group."

 

Thank you, jackhammer, for some intelligent insight. In a sea of low-rent escorts who embarrass themselves with each new post, it's refreshing and encouraging to know that some gay men with brains are still out there. Some of these posts remind me of brain cells extinguished after a ton of tweaking.

 

Putting the drama-loving, shit-obsessed posters aside, I don't believe the focus of jackhammer's post was "people who's jobs might be affected." The Mormon Church declared war on gay people and all the people, straight or gay, who deserve and need partnership rights. Every war has collateral damage. This does not mean you stop the fight.

[jackhammer91406]

RE: Gays with brains.

 

My hope is that those who own or run companies that are affected by a boycott will rethink their position and perhaps begin to support human rights as they pertain to all people without regard to race, religion, sex or creed (including the Apostle's Creed). When that finally happens, there will be no need for boycotts or ill will.

 

The fact is, those companies affected will have to moderate their operations to survive. That means they will either begin to support human rights for all, or their board of directors will take the management in a new direction.

 

Those who have acted on a matter of faith against my rights will now have to allow me the same right to perform an act of my faith by standing up to discrimination with the tools I have available.

[RockHard]

RE: Gays with brains.

 

Either way, action or inaction may offer consequences. When a person donates money to a (negative) cause, he or she better think ahead of time if such action will cause others serious harm. The onus is on the one who donates.

[+ Tygerscent]

Ya... I get the whole first amendment thing but then the Mormon church or at least part of that has gone beyond ex[pressing their opinion and moved into a lobbying format of expresing their opinion. Anyone can practice their faith... they are entitled to their opinions and express them... working as a church ADN a lobbying faction is crossing some legal bounderies. They have to decide what it is they are~ If they are a lobbying group then they should be treated as such and not have the sanctioned tax exemption. If they are church/religion then they should remain seperate from the political re;m as a church~ I don;t know. Perhaps I am wrong here. Enlighten me. I would rather be called out as being wrong and then educated to a more correct point of view then profess my own ignorant construct of things. I want to understand the truth of this situation and not just fall back on my own desired sense of truth.

Tyger!

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