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Another gay teen killed yesterday


Rick Munroe
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There are teens and people killed all over this country every single day of the year: gay, straight, bi, green, yellow, blue, male, female, whatever.

 

All of the deaths are a shame whether you are killed because of the kind of jacket you are wearing or who you want to screw or because you have something someone else wants or whatever.

 

I don't think we make ourselves part of a better world by raising the deaths of certain people of a certain group to a different level as somehow they are more important or meaningful.

 

"Balkanization" is always dangerous and solves nothing.

 

Mark

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Not sure I follow you on your comments. The murder in the article was a cowardly, hideous, repulsive act. It would have been so if it was a woman or a man. A person of any race. A person of any sexual orientation.

 

I am drawing some conclusions based solely on the article, but it appears it was also bullying situation. It doesn't matter what the sex, race, or sexual orientation of the victim. In my mind, whenever someone targets a weaker (physical) victim, that compounds the act and so should yield a more severe punishment.

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>I don't think we make ourselves part of a better world by

>raising the deaths of certain people of a certain group to a

>different level as somehow they are more important or

>meaningful.

 

What we can do is teach our children about tolerance and diversity and start to end the conformist culture that says that anyone who is different (race, religion, sexual orientation, etc.) deserves to be attacked.

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Gotta just love people who jump to conclusions about who a person is without knowing them or a thing about them.

 

Those are the most bigoted and prejudiced people of all and the ones we ought to be the most frightened of.

 

They will be the first to take away all of our freedoms.

 

Mark

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I understand that viewpoint but I think it is wrong. People should be punished for committing crimes against other people. I don't think the punishment should be based on whether or not the victim was "weaker." Who gets to make that decision? Who decides? What is "weaker?"

 

That's the problem for me. In a way, we end up saying ... sure, go ahead and kill a rich white person and steal everything they have in the process because that's OK or at least not as bad as killing a poor, defenseless black person or gay teen. There's something inherently wrong with that kind of thinking to me.

 

This constant need to "identify" people with labels is just very troubling to me.

 

Just look at the heading of this subject. Why? Why not just "A teen killed yesterday." Why must the person be labeled as if that were the only thing about them that mattered.

 

That's just what I'm saying.

 

Mark

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>In a way, we end up saying ...

>sure, go ahead and kill a rich white person and steal

>everything they have in the process because that's OK or at

>least not as bad as killing a poor, defenseless black person

>or gay teen. There's something inherently wrong with that kind

>of thinking to me.

 

That was a very good imitation of Glenn Beck with a little Limbaugh in the mix. Well done. :7

 

>Just look at the heading of this subject. Why? Why not just

>"A teen killed yesterday." Why must the person be

>labeled as if that were the only thing about them that

>mattered.

 

Because he was killed for being gay. Pretending that homophobia doesn't exist doesn't make it go away.

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The tragedy of this case is multifaceted. I taught in a public high school for thirty-six years and one thing I learned early in my career is that hatred, bigotry, and prejudice are not things that bloom overnight in a kid. The seeds of these concepts are planted and carefully nurtured by PARENTS over many years. A thirteen year old kid doesn’t wake up one morning and hate gays. Another question I have is where the hell did a fourteen year old get the gun?

 

The local district attorney, in Oxnard, wants to try the kid as an adult. I have difficulty with that. The boy just turned fourteen. Now if he were sixteen or seventeen that might, in my mind, be a different thing.

 

It is about time and more that this society begins to hold parents criminally responsible for the behavior of their children. If it were possible, which it probably isn’t, I would very much like to see the parent arrested and brought to trial as accessories to murder. Please believe me the real villains in this case are the PARENTS.

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Guest zipperzone

>That's the problem for me. In a way, we end up saying ...

>sure, go ahead and kill a rich white person and steal

>everything they have in the process because that's OK or at

>least not as bad as killing a poor, defenseless black person

>or gay teen.

 

Well maybe that's the way YOU see it but you are definately in the minority - thank God!

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To those right wing self-hating gays:

The point is NOT that a murder of a non-gay person would be ok or less horrible, but that murderers of gay men and women are specifically encouraged by right wing rhetoric that supports the point of view that gays are not worthy of equal respect that straights traditionally have. The more your right wing politicians and religious leaders pound that message in, the more dehumanized gays are to the audience who believes in these leaders.

It has nothing to do with murders of OTHER people.

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Guest carter07

I come down on the side of Epigonos on this one, after reading the story.

 

It would be a wonderful world is everyone felt like Mark, and one's orientation (or color or economic status or whatever) didn't matter. Sadly, that's not the real world and as Rick points out, it was all about being gay.

 

As the gay (closeted) father of a gay son, I know he had some hard times but survived them by dint of his own personality and common sense. And as far as I'm concerned, parents are culpable for violence against people for their sexual orientation because that is a learned hatred, and who else teaches a 14-year-old that hatred but, first, parents and then peers — and the parents of those peers are culpable as well. Just my two cents.

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>I don't think the punishment should be based on whether or not

>the victim was "weaker." Who gets to make that

>decision? Who decides? What is "weaker?"

 

If humans were solely logical, then perhaps that wouldn't play into it. But emotions often rule. A jury of one's peers makes those decisions all the time. Of course it gets more complicated with juveniles in the picture - in those cases it could be just the decision of one person.

>

>That's the problem for me. In a way, we end up saying ...

>sure, go ahead and kill a rich white person and steal

>everything they have in the process because that's OK or at

>least not as bad as killing a poor, defenseless black person

>or gay teen. There's something inherently wrong with that kind

>of thinking to me.

 

Yes, there is something wrong with that line of thinking and not one that I am advocating.

 

>This constant need to "identify" people with labels

>is just very troubling to me.

 

I too am not enamored with the idea of applying labels, but it takes a very well mental disciplined person not to apply stereotypes or labels. Our minds seem to be hardwired to put things into categories.

 

>Just look at the heading of this subject. Why? Why not just

>"A teen killed yesterday." Why must the person be

>labeled as if that were the only thing about them that

>mattered.

 

Is it be possible that is a judgment or conclusion that you are reaching and not one that was intended? Otherwise, why say teen and not just 'Person killed yesterday'? If the article didn't give any clue to sex, age, etc., would it give an accurate picture of the situation?

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>The local district attorney, in Oxnard, wants to try the kid

>as an adult. I have difficulty with that. The boy just turned

>fourteen. Now if he were sixteen or seventeen that might, in

>my mind, be a different thing.

 

I wonder, purely wonder, how much of your (and my) perception on this is colored by our idea of the reality of a 14-year old. I still think of them much the way I did 30 years ago, but their reality has changed a LOT in those 30 years.

 

>It is about time and more that this society begins to hold

>parents criminally responsible for the behavior of their

>children.

 

I totally agree here. I got OUT of the teaching field largely because of parents. (And that was 30 years ago too. ;-))

 

>If it were possible, which it probably isn’t, I

>would very much like to see the parent arrested and brought to

>trial as accessories to murder. Please believe me the real

>villains in this case are the PARENTS.

 

There are exceptions, but yeah.

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First of all, let me start off by saying this: Alot of you are basing your idea's and opinions of your view of the world you lives in as a youngster coming out. 2008, its 1000 times different. And by that, I mean better.

 

Let me tell you how much it has changed since I was in High School and Jr High. I used to be a very....delicate child. I had a higher pitched voice, and used to walk "effeminately". I grew up around 2 older sisters, and spent 99% of my time around women. I was a nerd, and a "brainiac" Amongst all those, I had a penchant for saying "fuck you" to authority and getting myself into all sorts of trouble which landed me in a boys academy in Oklahoma.

 

 

You talk about homophobic, where the tone of my voice has gotten me more ass kickings and harassment than thought possible..I dont know how many times I woke up on the gym floor with my teeth all moved around and a huge puddle of blood. Broken nose, broken arm, fractured leg from getting stomped on..you name it, I got it. And ironically, I wasnt even "out". I didnt even realize I was gay until I finally came to terms with it around the age of 17(which was when I joined the Army mind you *wink).

 

I said all that to say this. I am not justifying it, or condoning violence against anyone for what they like to do sexually. But it sounds like to me, at least this kid was severely pushing his new found sexuality on all the other kids. I can see how it would make other guys a little uncomfortable, and awkward.

 

The problem is now that you have all these kids running around, "LEAVE BRITNEY ALONE" ring a bell?, screaming about how they are gay, while in REALITY people dont give a fuck anymore. I cant help but feel like this kid made himself a target by his actions. You cant help but wonder how many times he was asked to chill out, but took it as a sign that he needs to push the envelope.

 

 

Ok, now I know you are steaming blah blah blah. Ill try it from another angle.

 

 

A woman has the right to wear what she wants or as little as she wants within the laws set. But, if she goes wandering down a dark ally in the ghetto with nothing but a bathing suit on, you can almost guarantee rape. Its called life. This kid pushed it too far and then some, and others pushed back.

 

No, killing him isnt even cool or right, or accepted. But for fucks sake, the gay world needs to stop pushing buttons and the limits so much, or else just learn to live with the consequences.

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Guest zipperzone

>Just as I said above, what a cold response.

 

Why would this surprise you? This is the same thug that offered to beat the crap out of someone he didn't even know. Not to mention threatening to commit cyber fraud and clear out someone's bank account. A thouroughly nasty piece of work IMO.

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>>Just as I said above, what a cold response.

>

>Why would this surprise you? This is the same thug that

>offered to beat the crap out of someone he didn't even know.

>Not to mention threatening to commit cyber fraud and clear out

>someone's bank account. A thouroughly nasty piece of work

>IMO.

 

 

where did you say you lived again?

 

*wink

 

 

Zipper, you cry too much. Show me where I "threatened to commit cyber fraud" and where I "offered to beat someone up".

 

Oddly enough, had any of those things been a serious issue, your efforts to get me removed as yo have done to people in the past would be successful. But we all know you are just another whiny old queen who has his sensibilities hurt.

 

Go fornicate yourself.

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>>That's the problem for me. In a way, we end up saying

>...

>>sure, go ahead and kill a rich white person and steal

>>everything they have in the process because that's OK or

>at

>>least not as bad as killing a poor, defenseless black

>person

>>or gay teen.

>

>

 

 

Quoted for Truth.

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Guest ReturnOfS

>>Just as I said above, what a cold response.

>

>Why would this surprise you? This is the same thug that

>offered to beat the crap out of someone he didn't even know.

>Not to mention threatening to commit cyber fraud and clear out

>someone's bank account. A thouroughly nasty piece of work

>IMO.

 

Yeah, Zipper, I've never really read his other posts before, so it surprised me. You definitely know more than me in this situation. I don't spend as much time on here as I use to. Hell, I don't even post pictures anymore.... maybe if I ever get more time.

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Guest zipperzone

>>>Just as I said above, what a cold response.

>>

>>Why would this surprise you? This is the same thug that

>>offered to beat the crap out of someone he didn't even

>know.

>>Not to mention threatening to commit cyber fraud and clear

>out

>>someone's bank account. A thouroughly nasty piece of work

>>IMO.

>

>

>where did you say you lived again?

>

>*wink

>

>

>Zipper, you cry too much. Show me where I "threatened to

>commit cyber fraud" and where I "offered to beat

>someone up".

>

>Oddly enough, had any of those things been a serious issue,

>your efforts to get me removed as yo have done to people in

>the past would be successful. But we all know you are just

>another whiny old queen who has his sensibilities hurt.

>

>Go fornicate yourself.

 

God forgive me - I swore to myself that I would never directly reply to one of your hate filled posts again, but in order to set the record straight and call you on your outragous lies, here goes.

 

You know perfectly well that you made the posts I referred to. You're such a bully that I'm sure you will never own up to that. But you gave yourself away when you said "Oddly enough, had any of those things been a serious issue, your efforts to get me removed as yo have done to people in the past would be successful" Are you too obstuse to realize that by saying "if they had been a SERIOUS issue" you are admitting to having made them. Unfortunately it is not possible to point to the exact posts as they were offensive enough for the moderators to delete them - and you damn well know that.

 

However, I took the liberty of printing copies when they were originally posted - so I can prove what you said - and believe me when I tell you, you had better hope that no one ever perpetrates identity fraud on me because you will be the first one on the police's suspect list.

 

And to further set the record straight - I have never tried to get anyone OTHER THAN YOU removed from this group.

 

I think it is pathetic that you are not man enough to admit to your past conduct. I think it is unfortunate that you are not bright enough to realize that others besides myself have long memories and can see through your lies and deceptions and that the only way you can conclude your post is to tell me to "go fornicate yourself".

You sir, are a real class act.

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Oh noes Zipper!

 

You printed copies of my posts. You are what we call a care bear.

 

You dont belong on the internet, as you haven't a clue what you are doing. You cannot treat the internet as real life and if you think so, you are sadly mistaken. We still have liberties and freedom on the internet, because liberal, negro loving idiots like yourself haven't been able to take them away. Freedom of speech is STILL allowed on the internet, and it just burns you up.

 

You cannot stop me from staying what I think on the internet just like you can in real life. You are crazy. You, as a gay man have been trying to get freedom from being forced into what the popular thought dictate for YEARS, and when you finally get popular thought changed, you become that which you have been fighting. Ironic, inst it. That you would criticize and persecute those who don't believe and think JUST LIKE YOU.

 

You dont deserve that which you have today. And that is my point. You think we would realize what we have and stop pushing for more. But no, people like you RUIN It for the rest of us. You are the typical, flaming, flaunting sally go crazy faggot that makes normal gay men like us look bad.

 

Take the chip off your shoulder, and BE NORMAL. Understand and accept that other people have different views from yourself. Jesus man. GET OVER IT.

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