Open to pricing advice?

[+ keroscenefire]

I recently got messages (unsolicited but likely because I browsed their profiles) from two escorts in Denver that by their lack of reviews and RM member dates are probably new to the trade. In both cases, when it got to talking about what they charge for time, both quoted pretty high numbers, especially for someone with little track record.

 

In both cases, I just gave a generic response like, "Sorry, but I can't afford that at this time." But was wondering if it would be appropriate or appreciated if I kind of guided these gents on pricing. As I have spent time with many of the available men in Denver, I feel I am pretty knowledgable about the going rates and even a bit about how they compare to other cities.

 

But I don't know if that would come across as rude or if it would be welcome. Is there a way I should present this without coming across as being a bargain hunter or whatever? I really do think that in some case their quoted prices could be just not knowing the market. Although of course I will admit that I actually would be potentially interested in spending time with these guys, just not at the rates they are asking for.

Edited December 6, 2019 by keroscenefire

[+ OliverSaks]

I’m always open to these types of discussions, the worst case scenario is a bitchy response, but they may also be thankful and want to find a way to show it.

 

When I was new, I charged a lot more and had no trouble finding it in certain cities, but ultimately I adapted to more middle of the pack rates. They, too, will likely adjust if they are finding little business.

[+ keroscenefire]

When I was new, I charged a lot more and had no trouble finding it in certain cities, but ultimately I adapted to more middle of the pack rates. They, too, will likely adjust if they are finding little business.

 

Thanks..I agree. I've even noticed some of the more established escorts try for a higher rate only to return to them a few months later at a more average rate. I definitely can be patient with some of these newbies too as they adjust themselves to the market.

[+ Keith30309]

I’m always open to these types of discussions, the worst case scenario is a bitchy response, but they may also be thankful and want to find a way to show it.

 

When I was new, I charged a lot more and had no trouble finding it in certain cities, but ultimately I adapted to more middle of the pack rates. They, too, will likely adjust if they are finding little business.

What’s your (or anyone’s) response if there’s a misunderstanding about rates and a client underpays and it’s not discovered until after you parted ways ?

 

A couple of days ago I met a very low-key, inexperienced guy (modest, brief profile on a less-popular site) who fits within a narrow niche within the trans community. We talked and agreed to meet for 2 hours at a hotel I was to pay for. He said “I can go $300 since you’re getting the hotel” (about $100’ish). I assumed that was for our time together and left him $300 when we parted ways. Later that night I got a super-nice text that basically said it was $300 per hour - $600. I never would have agreed to a $700 expense.

I was tempted to coach him on rates but didn’t.

 

Do you write that off as a lesson learned or mention it and request the money ?

[+ OliverSaks]

That’s a tricky one, room on either client or provider side for a bit of potential “gaming.” Knowing what a sweetie you are / seeing the exact wording, it is clear what was your expectation and that this was a clear misunderstanding.

 

From their side, I would definitely raise the issue if I thought I had been shorted, but be prepared to chalk it up to a “lesson learned.” Then just make sure to operate with more clarity about money/hr with later clients. If this person is in it for the long haul, they’ll be okay with that.

[+ Tarte Gogo]

I recently got messages (unsolicited but likely because I browsed their profiles) from two escorts in Denver that by their lack of reviews and RM member dates are probably new to the trade. In both cases, when it got to talking about what they charge for time, both quoted pretty high numbers, especially for someone with little track record.

 

In both cases, I just gave a generic response like. Sorry, but I can't afford that at this time. But was wondering if it would be appropriate or appreciated if I kind of guided these gents on pricing. As I have spent time with many of the available men in Denver, I feel I am pretty knowledgable about the going rates and even a bit about how they compare to other cities.

 

But I don't know if that would come across as rude or if it would be welcome. Is there a way I should present this without coming across as being a bargain hunter or whatever? I really do think that in some case their quoted prices could be just not knowing the market. Although of course I will admit that I actually would be potentially interested in spending time with these guys, just not at the rates they are asking for.

 

The problem is that If you can’t prove to them that the market price is lower, they might think you are just trying to get a cheap deal out of them.

 

The only way I would do it which I think would have a genuine impact, is if I could send them a link to a guy which has his rates online. If that cheaper guy is well established (for e.g. has his own website), has very hot pictures and also puts up a very clearly cheaper price, you can say something like “You are really hot and I am sorry I cannot afford you. I understand that your price is your price, and I won’t negotiate you down, but just in case you don’t know this market very well, here is a site of one of my regulars with his rates:<link>.”

 

If he replies something like (which sometimes happened to me) “but what I offer is a much hotter service”, then you can be polite and say: “then fair enough, your price may be justified, however right now, you are still too expensive for my budget, but if I get much richer i’ll contact you again for sure”.

[+ tassojunior]

What’s your (or anyone’s) response if there’s a misunderstanding about rates and a client underpays and it’s not discovered until after you parted ways ?

 

A couple of days ago I met a very low-key, inexperienced guy (modest, brief profile on a less-popular site) who fits within a narrow niche within the trans community. We talked and agreed to meet for 2 hours at a hotel I was to pay for. He said “I can go $300 since you’re getting the hotel” (about $100’ish). I assumed that was for our time together and left him $300 when we parted ways. Later that night I got a super-nice text that basically said it was $300 per hour - $600. I never would have agreed to a $700 expense.

I was tempted to coach him on rates but didn’t.

 

Do you write that off as a lesson learned or mention it and request the money ?

 

Like you maybe, I never had "hourly" problems with regulars. But then when I became friends with many "pros" and saw their business interchanges, I became aware that it's assumed each hour is hourly rate and the provider can be generous with a slightly reduced amount. The more business-like guys are going to be strict on hourly rates. I have one friend who sets his phone alarm when the door opens.

[+ Keith30309]

I have one friend who sets his phone alarm when the door opens.

? Romantic.

 

I never initiate the discussion about reduced rates and when I’ve responded to queries it never ends well.

In the past I’ve suggested to new guys that an incall second and third hour each be 50% of the first Seemed reasonable to me.

[+ tassojunior]

? Romantic.

 

I never initiate the discussion about reduced rates and when I’ve responded to queries it never ends well.

In the past I’ve suggested to new guys that an incall second and third hour each be 50% of the first Seemed reasonable to me.

 

I think if you propose a fee for 2 hours you almost always will be accepted. But just booking 2 hours assumes 2 x the hour rate. The truth is most dates take far less than 1 hour to "finish up" and 2 hours assumes a lot of chatting. I think the problem is when the provider assumes the hourly rate is in effect but gets a rude surprise at payment time. Just agree on the reduced fee beforehand.

 

 

Edited December 5, 2019 by tassojunior

[SirBillybob]

The problem is that we do not know the mean and standard variation for price, though it theoretically exists. This board would likely be the best resource for calculating it with a huge sample size over time, in USA for example, for one hour with a cis-male escort and no other variables and no other extraneous chatter in a unique dedicated thread that could be started in which posters simple entered the fee they paid for each encounter in real time until we achieve an arbitrary volume of data, eg 1,000 tricks, 12 months Jan-Dec2020, etc.

 

The average price along with the price range for 67% of tricks could easily be established. The larger the sample size the narrower typically that 67% calculation (plus/minus 1st standard deviation) around the average the range is.

 

Armed with this data, escorts and johns could be given a general benchmark around which to justify asks at the higher end.

[+ Keith30309]

The problem is that we do not know the mean and standard variation for price, though it theoretically exists. This board would likely be the best resource for calculating it with a huge sample size over time, in USA for example, for one hour with a cis-male escort and no other variables and no other extraneous chatter in a unique dedicated thread that could be started in which posters simple entered the fee they paid for each encounter in real time until we achieve an arbitrary volume of data, eg 1,000 tricks, 12 months Jan-Dec2020, etc.

 

The average price along with the price range for 67% of tricks could easily be established. The larger the sample size the narrower typically that 67% calculation (plus/minus 1st standard deviation) around the average the range is.

 

Armed with this data, escorts and johns could be given a general benchmark around which to justify asks at the higher end.

When RentMen published rates this was possible. These days you’d have to crowd-source this.

 

 

UPDATE: 3 months later (snapshotted today) the Atlanta numbers haven't changed in a statistically-meaningful way- the average incall rate dropped $7 to $204 and outcall up a dollar to $236.

The normal ebb and flow of people doesn't shift the numbers much....

 

Next step - correlate inches to rate.

 

http://i1055.photobucket.com/albums/s511/keith30309/temp_zpsmizflsqj.jpg

[SirBillybob]

When RentMen published rates this was possible. These days you’d have to crowd-source this.

 

Yes that’s right, I was using plain English, but simple random sampling via crowdsourcing. It is almost snowball sampling in a sense since there is interaction and participation uptake among board members somewhat familiar among one another.

[+ not2rowdy]

The problem is....

 

Not an escort - but here’s my input anyway.

 

In response to the post by @SirBIllybob: The review site often has “actual” numbers for the time provided. But, in the big overall scheme of life, the “data sample” is statistically pretty small over the course of a year.

 

So I don’t think you would ever gather a “true” data set.

 

- There are those providers who likely offer “deals” to repeat clients. They would likely be unhappy if that deal was divulged to the world.

- When sex is involved - people lie. There could very well be “bragging rights” involved.

- Clients might be very reticent to divulge a $$ amount to time spent with a specific provider due to legal concerns.

- Clients might be more willing to provide a more generic, and anonymous data set if the question was posed more regionally. Say the question was: “What is the average cost of 1 hour you paid for providers in the following regions?” Please indicate the total number of hires and the average 1hr cost:

 

Example: (and no - these have zero correlation to me. And the numbers below are arbitrary)

 

NYC 6 hires $275

LA 3 hires $255

Texas 2 hires $245

Rural Midwest 1 hire $200

 

It could be challenging to come up with the “regions”. But it would likely make sense to separate out NYC and LA as being the two biggest markets. And keeping the data “honest” would be challenging. Maybe the Cabana to establish an initial “vetting”? But that subforum has a very small membership in the overall worldwide hiring process.

 

Probably too late to get the question added to the 2020 census questionnaire. (My bad!)

[Guest]

The problem is that If you can’t prove to them that the market price is lower, they might think you are just trying to get a cheap deal out of them.

 

The only way I would do it which I think would have a genuine impact, is if I could send them a link to a guy which has his rates online. If that cheaper guy is well established (for e.g. has his own website), has very hot pictures and also puts up a very clearly cheaper price, you can say something like “You are really hot and I am sorry I cannot afford you. I understand that your price is your price, and I won’t negotiate you down, but just in case you don’t know this market very well, here is a site of one of my regulars with his rates:<link>.”

 

If he replies something like (which sometimes happened to me) “but what I offer is a much hotter service”, then you can be polite and say: “then fair enough, your price may be justified, however right now, you are still too expensive for my budget, but if I get much richer i’ll contact you again for sure”.

 

I'm sure you mean well by this communication strategy, but I have to be honest, if it were me you were talking with, it wouldn't be my preference. I'd rather you just politely say "that's a little outside my budget for this time", "I'm going with a less costly provider this time" or something similar, and leave it for me to infer the rest. We know you have choices, and we keep tabs on our colleagues. Escorts get this kind of feedback all the time (as well the inverse, "wow, what a deal for your rates!") and we consider it very carefully.

 

The alternative, making a specific comparison between two escorts, can come across as a little uncouth. It's hard not to take it personally. If I'm deciding between an established bakery and a new one, and the established one has a loaf of bread that I like just as much or more than I think I will like the new one's, as well as a lower price, I don't bring it to the new bakery and say "just so you know, this is a great loaf of bread, and it's cheaper than yours".

 

Maybe that's just the difference between Canadian and American culture? I find myself trying to explain this sort of thing rather often. In any case, I'm always grateful for clients who, whether they book me or not, do so politely.

[SirBillybob]

I would never try to stratify regionally. The Big Mac Index is nation-specific. I believe the burger costs the same coast to coast and is independent of overhead regional differentials within any one country. Adjust your national payment if you like. I don’t.

 

I am not suggesting you confront the MickeyD cashier with a negotiation based on commercial rental space costs or what the guy flipping burgers down the road charges, or vice versa. All I am suggesting is a central-tendency rate, anchored in reality, in order to make an offer anchored in trends as opposed to down-regulating outrageously high price-tags while the provider insinuates forbearance for your insult.

Edited December 5, 2019 by SirBIllybob

[+ peterhung85]

I’m always open to these types of discussions, the worst case scenario is a bitchy response, but they may also be thankful and want to find a way to show it.

 

When I was new, I charged a lot more and had no trouble finding it in certain cities, but ultimately I adapted to more middle of the pack rates. They, too, will likely adjust if they are finding little business.

 

Thank you for sharing your story. It is so funny how we are all so different and coming from different backgrounds.

 

I remember when I first started in this trade, I had a rather lower hourly rate (not Craigslist low but RB low) but I was running specials back then. I wanted to see the USA & the world. I offered to clients that if they take me to a US state or a country I have not been before, I charge $300/day. Before I get new inquiries, please note that that limited time offer has expired (10 years ago ).

 

To address @keroscenefire I would say "Go for it"... just be as "non-intrusive" as you possibly can. Approach it from the angle that you are trying to help (in case they need it) and not from an angle that "I know it better than you, so let me tell you that..... ". I know you would do it as scenario #1, just re-affirming.

Edited December 5, 2019 by peterhung85

[+ Tarte Gogo]

I'm sure you mean well by this communication strategy, but I have to be honest, if it were me you were talking with, it wouldn't be my preference. I'd rather you just politely say "that's a little outside my budget for this time", "I'm going with a less costly provider this time" or something similar, and leave it for me to infer the rest. We know you have choices, and we keep tabs on our colleagues. Escorts get this kind of feedback all the time (as well the inverse, "wow, what a deal for your rates!") and we consider it very carefully.

 

The alternative, making a specific comparison between two escorts, can come across as a little uncouth. It's hard not to take it personally. If I'm deciding between an established bakery and a new one, and the established one has a loaf of bread that I like just as much or more than I think I will like the new one's, as well as a lower price, I don't bring it to the new bakery and say "just so you know, this is a great loaf of bread, and it's cheaper than yours".

 

Maybe that's just the difference between Canadian and American culture? I find myself trying to explain this sort of thing rather often. In any case, I'm always grateful for clients who, whether they book me or not, do so politely.

Fair enough, maybe that would be the case for you, but the original premise from the OP is that, that escort is very young and new and doesn’t yet know what they are doing. Not quite like someone who has setup a bakery on the street and invested a big amount of money before opening shop.

 

I am not American btw.

[MrMattBig]

I recently got messages (unsolicited but likely because I browsed their profiles) from two escorts in Denver that by their lack of reviews and RM member dates are probably new to the trade. In both cases, when it got to talking about what they charge for time, both quoted pretty high numbers, especially for someone with little track record.

 

In both cases, I just gave a generic response like. Sorry, but I can't afford that at this time. But was wondering if it would be appropriate or appreciated if I kind of guided these gents on pricing. As I have spent time with many of the available men in Denver, I feel I am pretty knowledgable about the going rates and even a bit about how they compare to other cities.

 

But I don't know if that would come across as rude or if it would be welcome. Is there a way I should present this without coming across as being a bargain hunter or whatever? I really do think that in some case their quoted prices could be just not knowing the market. Although of course I will admit that I actually would be potentially interested in spending time with these guys, just not at the rates they are asking for.

Rates could be higher simply by how they value themselves, from a mindset of "if you pay me xxx I'll do abc". Knowledge of going rates may or may not be there. Giving advice is always a gamble as you never know how someone will respond. Especially if advice was not asked for. Instead of going an advice route for someone you haven't met yet, phrase things in a different way.

 

"That's a bit out of range for me. Guys here usually charge xyz give or take a $20 or two, and that is what I was prepared to contribute. If you can accommodate this then let's move forward."

 

Yes it would be a counteroffer scenario, but you are giving the context or market rates and what others charge as well within that.

[ClarkRedford]

When RentMen published rates this was possible. These days you’d have to crowd-source this.

 

I miss these days. Luckily I started at the tail end of these days, and this truly helped me set my rates when I first started. When I moved cities (from NYC to Chicago) and had to adjust my pricing a few months ago it was so hard. I wish there was a way for us to at least get a general feel for market rates in cities; I lost several potential clients the first week or so trying to navigate the new market rates. I have no idea how brand new escorts figure out pricing so I think clients giving a gentle "nudge" in the right direction might be helpful (though I am hesitant about using other escort profiles as a way to do this - as market rates are set by geography, they are also determined by what specific "niche" or "type" the escort is filling and those niches can vary widely.)

[+ keroscenefire]

Rates could be higher simply by how they value themselves, from a mindset of "if you pay me xxx I'll do abc". Knowledge of going rates may or may not be there. Giving advice is always a gamble as you never know how someone will respond. Especially if advice was not asked for. Instead of going an advice route for someone you haven't met yet, phrase things in a different way.

 

"That's a bit out of range for me. Guys here usually charge xyz give or take a $20 or two, and that is what I was prepared to contribute. If you can accommodate this then let's move forward."

 

Yes it would be a counteroffer scenario, but you are giving the context or market rates and what others charge as well within that.

 

This is pretty solid advice. In one case, the gentleman was offering a "holiday special" that was 2 hours for $500 (normally he charges $350 an hour and would only do the special if you booked 2 hours). Part of it is that he has some experience in massage and it would include that as well. I almost wanted to offer: Most of the time I get a massage here in Denver for about $150 an hour and time with an escort for about $250 an hour. Would you consider 2 hours for $400? I guess it never hurts to offer and worse that can happen is he says no. $500 to me was out of the question as I had just spent two hours with IronMaus for that price, and he is a world-class escort and porn star (and worth every penny).

[+ keroscenefire]

The problem is that If you can’t prove to them that the market price is lower, they might think you are just trying to get a cheap deal out of them.

 

The only way I would do it which I think would have a genuine impact, is if I could send them a link to a guy which has his rates online. If that cheaper guy is well established (for e.g. has his own website), has very hot pictures and also puts up a very clearly cheaper price, you can say something like “You are really hot and I am sorry I cannot afford you. I understand that your price is your price, and I won’t negotiate you down, but just in case you don’t know this market very well, here is a site of one of my regulars with his rates:<link>.”

 

If he replies something like (which sometimes happened to me) “but what I offer is a much hotter service”, then you can be polite and say: “then fair enough, your price may be justified, however right now, you are still too expensive for my budget, but if I get much richer i’ll contact you again for sure”.

 

This is a good call. There is actually a very well established escort in Denver that has a web site and his rates are much lower. Interestingly, he tried for a bit to go for the $300 rate and then went down again after a few months for whatever reason.

[Mikegaite]

It’s a small data set of information to work with, but Men4porn has rates published if you want more info on pricing in a particular market.

[+ poolboy48220]

I can't imagine giving pricing advice to someone I barely knew. If they're over my limit, I say so and move on.

[hypothetically]

I really do think that in some case their quoted prices could be just not knowing the market.

 

If this is indeed the case, they will learn, and very quickly, that their quoted rate is not consistent with that of their peers. I do not think a convo with an escort, specifically a new one, about pricing is appropriate because it may be interpreted as you questioning his “value.” I think it is the new escort’s responsibility to do ample research or find a mentor within the market to aid him in his new endeavor. But it is not yours. I don’t think anything triggers an escort more than verbalizing you can “get it for cheaper” elsewhere.

 

But on the flip side, you do have new talent that is very well aware that they bring a certain je nai se quoi to the grid in contrast to their competitors, not even in a self-gratuitous way, but just because it is blatantly obvious and they will charge accordingly. You have to remember that, while yes, market trends “should” be upheld, everyone’s pricing is individual. You have the escort who prices his services per current market trends, and the accompanying client who only hires within the confines of those trends. And then you have the escort who prices his services excessively high and will not budge because he recognizes he falls into a well sought after niche and clients will pay top dollar for his time. I doubt this is the case per the tone of the OP, but still good to remember. Let the baby chickens learn on their own. I think learning to navigate the business and using trial and error is imperative when first starting out.

[+ keroscenefire]

I doubt this is the case per the tone of the OP, but still good to remember. Let the baby chickens learn on their own. I think learning to navigate the business and using trial and error is imperative when first starting out.

 

Ultimately, that is what I did. Like I said, I did a sort of "That's a bit more than I can afford for right now, but good luck," sort of message. So at least there is an indication that their price was the sticking point for me and maybe that will lead to adjustments. The "trial and error" as you will. I will likely still browse their profiles from time to time and if they want to message me again, will certainly be open to seeing them if they figure out a price for their time that is more what I am willing to do with them.