What do you think of this as a business practice?

[rogerG]

I’m not sure I see what the argument here is about.

I didn't think there was an argument, at all.

Your example is not "out of desperation" and not applicable to my statement.

It doesn't matter. The point I was trying to make referred directly to your "Assumptions are almost always a dead end." The fact remains, we as customers can never really know when someone is "desperate." We can assume based on a variety of factors mentioned in this thread, or we can trust when someone specifically says he is desperate, but we can never really know for sure. So, in a negotiation process, when one occurs, no matter how it occurs, a certain amount of assuming will be in play. My point is, with an open mind, some escorts and massage therapists will work for less than their stated rate if the negotiation works for both parties. A reduction in price often has nothing to do with desperation and much more to do with not losing a sale.

[+ José Soplanucas]

I didn't think there was an argument, at all.

 

It doesn't matter. The point I was trying to make referred directly to your "Assumptions are almost always a dead end." The fact remains, we as customers can never really know when someone is "desperate." We can assume based on a variety of factors mentioned in this thread, or we can trust when someone specifically says he is desperate, but we can never really know for sure. So, in a negotiation process, when one occurs, no matter how it occurs, a certain amount of assuming will be in play. My point is, with an open mind, some escorts and massage therapists will work for less than their stated rate if the negotiation works for both parties. A reduction in price often has nothing to do with desperation and much more to do with not losing a sale.

 

No one in this thread has said that all discounts come from desperation. The problem is, as you well said, we cannot be sure when that is the case and when it is not.

 

Let's not talk in abstractions. Let's use the original case discussed in this thread. The escort states that he would offer a discount only if they meet soon. This is quite an ambiguous statement, and in no way I am saying that is a clear proof of desperation. It is not. The point I think we are missing is that we are not judging the provider. At least I am not. What I am doing is trying to well invest my money. Fortunately I live in DC and the market is booming. If I perceive any sign of what it may be desperation, I would look for a safer place where to invest my money. I am not placing a judgement on someone I do not know, I am choosing not to take a risk I do not need to take, because there is a safer place where to put my dollars.

 

I think the only assumptions we should have a problem with are the judgmental ones. I do not see any here.

[Mocha]

escort states that he would offer a discount only if they meet soon.

 

...that’s standard practice in the stores you and I likely visit everyday. Nothing unsafe about it.

 

http://www.markinblog.com/wp-content/uploads/Sense-of-Urgency.jpg

[rogerG]

No one in this thread has said that all discounts come from desperation.

I was aware of that. Perhaps some wording wasn't super clear. My brain responded to the words assumption and desperation.

why settle for 0% instead of 70%?

That sounds like a perfectly reasonable and smart strategy. It won't work for everyone, but thankfully it works for many. That is the perspective I was trying to convey.

many of these clients are now more reliable regulars

In the first exclusive spa that I managed, the owner was very careful about offering discounts. She hated the word discount until she discovered that she could use other words, like "special offer" to attract new customers. She would use this discount tool to build newer employees who were hired with no developed clientele and were working on a minimum wage salary. Newer employees with talent and a strong work ethic easily built a loyal following on these lower-priced customers. The owner and the employee learned that 60% was far better than 0%. When it came time to put the employee on commission, the loyal customer base had grown to support the transition. It was a win-win for both.

[ReidReid]

https://rentmen.eu/red_jose/

 

So this is the essence of an exchange I had with this guy via RM message:

 

Me - can you please tell me your rates?

Him - $XXX

Me - That is beyond my budget. Thanks anyway.

Him - what are you looking to pay?

Me - My budget is $YYY, but I am not trying to haggle.

Him - I will do that if you can meet soon. When are you ready to meet?

Me - great. I need a little time to shower and get ready. Can we meet at 7 PM? Here is the address....

Him - OK, see you soon

Me - (30 mins before meeting) Everything on track? Ready to go?

Him - No. Cancel. I have someone who will pay my full rate + $100.

Me - $#%&%$#

 

Just curious as to what you service providers would have done in that situation. Is it a totally free market, or do you feel bound by a commitment already made?

 

I feel like that's unprofessional and I personally would never do that.

[Mocha]

I feel like that's unprofessional and I personally would never do that.

 

I’m still curious as to what were the words that ensued here.

 

Me - $#%&%$#

[tenderloin]

I’m still curious as to what were the words that ensued here.

 

Me - $#%&%$#

 

Use your imagination. I felt like the provider had acted in an extremely unprofessional and unkind manner, and I let him know that - with much foul language.

[Mocha]

Use your imagination. I felt like the provider had acted in an extremely unprofessional and unkind manner, and I let him know that - with much foul language.

 

I don’t blame you...but I don’t think the language did much justice. I’ve gotten to where anytime someone wants to come back with some tired excuse, I just don’t even respond. They get the cancellation agreement and have a limited amount of time to settle up, or they get reported. I did not sign up to babysit a bunch of children, or to be the punching bag for electronic verbal abuse.

 

One such client (though that title is so undeserving for him) thought he could call me all sort of names, fuck you, etc etc. I went ahead and posted that shit right on his yelp account, with his business name on the caller ID so he couldn’t deny it, and yelp wouldn’t remove it like he did with all the other people (found out he not only treats sex workers disrespectfully, but his employees as well). He picked the wrong bitch that day.

Edited September 27, 2019 by Mocha

[Trick]

 

One such client (though that title is so undeserving for him) thought he could call me all sort of names, fuck you, etc etc. I went ahead and posted that shit right on his yelp account, with his business name on the caller ID so he couldn’t deny it, and yelp wouldn’t remove it like he did with all the other people (found out he not only treats sex workers disrespectfully, but his employees as well). He picked the wrong bitch that day.

 

 

Admissions like this make me want to warn every would be client to stay away from you. It is not safe to transact any business with you.

[Mocha]

Admissions like this make me want to warn every would be client to stay away from you. It is not safe to transact any business with you.

 

You’re absolutely right. It’s not safe to send harassing and belittling messages to someone. We are just men with an ad and some pictures. You wouldn’t (hopefully) go into Neiman Marcus or The Andrew Christian store and start demeaning and cursing out employees, so don’t do it to me. I’m not here for all that.

 

If I were you, I’d stay away from me too. Trick.

[+ OliverSaks]

Do you catch more flies with honey...?

[marylander1940]

Admissions like this make me want to warn every would be client to stay away from you. It is not safe to transact any business with you.

 

@Mocha did a valuable service to the community warning others about the guy’s sociopathic behavior.

[+ OliverSaks]

Belittling messages and insults = sociopathic behavior ?

 

Mocha’s skin is remarkably thin for this biz

 

@Mocha did a valuable service to the community warning others about the guy’s sociopathic behavior.

[marylander1940]

Belittling messages and insults = sociopathic behavior ?

 

Mocha’s skin is remarkably thin for this biz

 

Belittling someone who insults and messes with others? The opposite @Mocha simply taught him a lesson and warned others. Not everybody likes to put the other cheek in life constantly...

 

He (the former client turned stalker) messed with the wrong person this time.

[Mocha]

@Mocha did a valuable service to the community warning others about the guy’s sociopathic behavior.

 

I actually had someone on yelp send me a private message after that, thanking me for doing so, because he had her yelp account suspended when she wrote a review on him. Apparently he would get people’s yelp’s account deleted. There was also an employee of his who had recently put a similar review of him up, about how he would talk to them, but after awhile that disappeared as well. Mine is still up. Couldn’t dispute that.

 

9 times out 10, the same ones shit talking escorts, are likely doing it to other people as well. That’s why I already know what kind of client Trump would be lol.

[Trick]

@Mocha did a valuable service to the community warning others about the guy’s sociopathic behavior.

 

Only time can tell who is doing valuable service to the community here.

 

My reply is not only based on this thread but on everything that Mocha has posted in this forum. With all the contempt for clients, his issues, his baggage, etc that he has been exhibiting in his posts, not to mention his habit of posting clients’ personal information in retaliation for their alleged misdeeds, it’s only wise to advise everyone to STAY AWAY!

[Mocha]

Belittling messages and insults = sociopathic behavior ?

 

Mocha’s skin is remarkably thin for this biz

 

So my skin is thin for putting someone on blast for calling me out of my name (fuck you loser was 1 of the choice words he used). But yet a client can use “much foul language”, and nobody says anything? For all we know, he could have called him a stupid s**c wh*re, go kill yourself. I’ve been the recipient of client’s abusive language, and I’m THE LAST BITCH that will tolerate that. People get 1 TIME to come at me wrong, and it’s OVER.

 

See, this is the problem I have. Too many providers have no backbone, and are sitting around letting clients say and do whatever they want to do. Can you guess who of all people tend to cause me the most frustration, aggravations, and annoyances? Is it Trump? No. Is it FOSTA? No. Is it Congress? No. Is it other escorts? No. Is it lawmakers? No. Is it unsupportive friends? No.

 

It’s OTHER CLIENTS (not all, but the ones who don’t have manners and courtesy). The same people who are coming to us to help them have a good time, to support our business, to be taken care of...ARE THE ONES WHO ARE HURTING US THE MOST.

 

They dangle us a bone to make it seem like they are looking out for us, but will in a second cancel, leave us high and dry, not return messages, don’t leave anything for the inconvenience of wasting our time. NOTHING. Most clients are good people, but others only fucking care about they damn self. Yes, everyone is selfish to a degree, but when it comes down to it, it can’t always just be about you.

 

That is why I’ve become this thin-skinned person who doesn’t take shit from people anymore. And if anyone has an issue with it, mind your business.

[marylander1940]

Only time can tell who is doing valuable service to the community here.

 

My reply is not only based on this thread but on everything that Mocha has posted in this forum. With all the contempt for clients, his issues, his baggage, etc that he has been exhibiting in his posts, not to mention his habit of posting clients’ personal information in retaliation for their alleged misdeeds, it’s only wise to advise everyone to STAY AWAY!

 

Thank you for explaining your previous post.

 

We (forum posters) are not all the clients available, and some prolific posters have acknowledged they no longer can afford to hire and they're on here for other reasons. Once an escort refer to most contributors as window shoppers, I can't tell if he was right or wrong.

 

@Mocha (and I guess most of us) has contempt against liars, flaky guys and folks who play games with other persons lives. Unfortunately there are folks like that in all professions and activities.

[marylander1940]

I actually had someone on yelp send me a private message after that, thanking me for doing so, because he had her yelp account suspended when she wrote a review on him. Apparently he would get people’s yelp’s account deleted. There was also an employee of his who had recently put a similar review of him up, about how he would talk to them, but after awhile that disappeared as well. Mine is still up. Couldn’t dispute that.

 

9 times out 10, the same ones shit talking escorts, are likely doing it to other people as well. That’s why I already know what kind of client Trump would be lol.

 

[+ WilliamM]

 

I am surprised that @Mocha, one of the most intelligent people on this site would publicly identify a client.

[rogerG]

It is strange how certain worker personalities seem to always attract trouble customers. We always had diva workers in the spas I managed. Some were extremely talented, others were just starving for attention. Inevitably, some of the nastiest, most self-absorbed customers would stand loyal to their talentless divas no matter what the circumstance. In management, we often would joke quietly, "you are who you attract."

[Mocha]

Inevitably, some of the nastiest, most self-absorbed customers would stand loyal to their talentless divas no matter what the circumstance. In management, we often would joke quietly, "you are who you attract."

 

Well that’s unfortunate, but I’m pretty sure you weren’t trying to relate that to me. Because those aren’t the type of clients who are my regulars. The ones I talk about who do such things, are generally *1 time* clients, and for those reasons.

 

...and don’t think those types only contact certain types. Word goes around. I usually find out those same types have messed other guys around. One guy in Indianapolis called himself getting flip with me, I reached out to my assistant who was able to see he dished out some other porn star on Twitter.

 

 

I am surprised that @Mocha, one of the most intelligent people on this site would publicly identify a client.

 

Well, thanks? However, there was no publicly identifying. In fact, I didn’t even mention anything about what our interaction involved. I just kept things very obscure, all I needed was the message.

Edited September 27, 2019 by Mocha

[loremipsum]

What that person did isn’t cool. I indeed would feel bound by the commitment I already made.

[+ Eric Hassan]

i'm sorry to hear that happened.

 

my theory is there are two types of approaches to this work: money-focused or relationship-focused. you need to manage both, but i think most folks approach more strongly from one or the other - and perhaps this guy is more concerned with the dollar figure now than the relationship now and later

[Aaron_Bauder]

A reduction in price often has nothing to do with desperation and much more to do with not losing a sale.

 

That was pretty much the point I originally made; I never assumed otherwise, as you falsely insinuated I was doing.

 

I don't believed deductive reasoning and blanket assumption are the same thing, so my original point stands: clients would probably be wise to avoid clients who would shave off a good percentage of their price out of desperation alone, but should not merely assume out of hand that someone willing to do so would automatically provide crap service. I don't understand why this a controversial point in any way.