Don Imus: Should these comments get all this fuss?

[Guest msclonly]

Change to another Station or turn it off!

You are not forced to listen.

I didn't!

 

This there some other case being made at his expense?

[Guest alanm]

RE: Don Imus

 

During yesterday's charity fund raiser, Don Imus continued to talk about his situation, including critical comments on frequent guests on his show who did not come to his defense such as 2006 Senate candidate Howard Ford, Jr. Imus' comments had no place in a charity fund raiser.

 

I missed Winfrey, but did see the Rutgers University womens' basketball team earlier in the week on TV. The calm, reasoned way in which the players and coach discussed their background & studies/athletic achievements made Imus' comments sound even more stupid and uninformed than before.

 

Governor Corzine's injuries are very serious. I broke eight ribs on one side two summers ago & took two months to fully recover. Corzine's situation is far worse than mine. However, I am unsure how the governor's injuries are the fault of the management of NBC and CBS.

 

If your point is that Don Imus and other shock-jocks like Howard Srern

are bullies and should have been banished from the air a longer time ago, I agree. However, I do not know what you point is because of the whinning about the bosses at CBS and NBC.

[RockHard]

RE: Don Imus

 

"The political hacks and the major media players who have kept Imus on the air, knowing full well the content of his program, seem to have suddenly become aware of the tenor of his show and are aghast."

 

"Seem to have suddenly" are your words, expressing your opinion. I don't agree that any of the reaction was sudden. The groundswell of outrage from NBC's female employees took its time, along with all the painful racism and sexism they endured before Imus' slap-down. There is NOTHING sudden about this event but one must look a little deeper beneath the surface to see it for what it is.

 

One could reasonably argue, "Times, they are a changin'." Let's not forget that Rutger's Basketball team DID NOTHING to provoke Imus' nasty, sexist, racist, words. They were just THERE doing their thing, and doing it quite well (from what I hear).

 

Reasonable people are willing to tolerate shock-jock behavior in a free-speech environment, paid-for with corporate dollar, up to a point. No one really knows where that point is but Imus and all entertainment executives just found out.

 

Maybe the day the word "faggot" will cost someone their job is not so far off.

 

I see Imus getting fired as a good thing for us all. But I don't see it as a good thing for the millions of children he has helped through the years. Hopefully someone else will step in to fill that vacuum.

[FinFangFoom]

>Well, can we say the free market reigned?

 

 

Actually, no we can't because it wasn't the free market that reigned but rather racist demagogues who, as usual, scared the shit out of the media. No one comes out of this looking good.

 

 

Freely yours,

 

FFF

[Guest alanm]

No one comes out of this looking good.

 

I disagree. The Rutgers University Womens basketball team, particularly

the coach, comes out looking very good. They represent all the student athletes, male and femaole from all races, across the country who maintain good grades while excelling in sports that require many hours of practice and game play, travel to away games and determination & dedication. I am including all college sports here, baseball and tennis as well as basketball and football.

[RockHard]

RE: Looking good?

 

I agree with alanm and I'll take it one step further: women won, especially young, Black women in America. They're sick and tired of men slapping them down and their calls for help are being heard and respected. It's about time.

[Guest zipperzone]

>I am including all

>college sports here, baseball and tennis as well as basketball

>and football.

 

Let us not leave out the swim teams in their wispy little speedos who show us so much on the diving boards and climbing out of the water afterwards.

[+ purplekow]

RE: Don Imus

 

>"Seem to have suddenly" are your words, expressing your

>opinion. I don't agree that any of the reaction was sudden.

>The groundswell of outrage from NBC's female employees took

>its time, along with all the painful racism and sexism they

>endured before Imus' slap-down. There is NOTHING sudden about

>this event but one must look a little deeper beneath the

>surface to see it for what it is.

 

"Seem to have suddenly" applies when there is a two week suspension decided up one day and a firing the next. as was done at CBS. That change suggests both actions were arbitrary and motivated by something other than the offense itself. If there was groundswell to slap Imus down, where was it when the first punishment was given.

Now MSNBC did not change its stance, they cut tied immediately and permanently, but CBS, after considerable political pressure and media hoopla certainly ceded to that pressure. CBS did not acquit itself well in this case. They were not even-handed and consistent.

 

The Rutgers team and their families decided to listen to Imus' presentation prior to making a decision about their stance in this matter. Their decision, right or wrong, was to accept the apology.

 

I suggest that CBS deserved to give their decision as much consideration as the clearly offended parties did. Then, a single decision, after appropriate deliberation and reflection, even one to fire him, would not appear to be what it now appears to be, a kowtowing to political pressure.

 

>>Reasonable people are willing to tolerate shock-jock behavior

>in a free-speech environment, paid-for with corporate dollar,

>up to a point. No one really knows where that point is but

>Imus and all entertainment executives just found out.

>

>Or did politicians and others just strong arm those executives to draw the line here in order to advance their own political agenda? If they really wanted to know what reasonable people thought, they could have allowed the public to speak by turning their dials.

[Rick Munroe]

Fall of the House of Imus

 

Purplekow, I just read what I think is the best commentary on this whole thing, and I agree with it completely.

 

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/4/13/164548/617

 

Excerpts:

 

"You can never predict how these things will play out: as many others have mentioned before me, Imus or Rush can say bigoted, vile, meanspirited stuff like this all the time, and never get seriously called on it once, and then there's one particular incident that is just barely more egregious than most of the others, and it suddenly galvanizes the whole frame around that person, and all of a sudden there's hell to pay where there wasn't a mere week before. It is a strange, bizarre aspect of American political life, but it is a pattern that has become very commonplace. First inured, dull apathy; then sudden scandal; then reflection on the history past behavior that nobody could bother to cast their eyes upon for the months or years or decades leading up to the "big" event; then summary judgment.

 

"America can't deal with long histories of implicit racism, or borderline corruption, or just general, simmering unsavoriness: there is no hook there to attach the American attention span onto. It has to be a true pie-in-the-face moment, and when that moment happens, the tidal retribution that was built up from all the previous, apparently ignored incidents surges in all at once and buries the poor unsuspecting bastard. ...

 

"It's not about Imus making a joke: it's about Imus making one insult too many, after long history of the same. Just a little too sharp, just a little too obvious, and ten years past the expiration date of such humor. The payback isn't for the insult: the payback is the delayed payback for all the insults, and "bitch" jokes, and "ho" jokes, and perhaps a little general psychic penance among his previous acolytes for having treated this clown seriously for too long, when he doesn't want to be taken seriously. ...

 

"You can tell, viscerally, when the American public is collectively in a foul mood and looking for a little payback -- it happened to the Republicans last November, an election of intended retribution pure and simple, but the anger at the media itself for many of the same faults has not been sated. It's a broad-based anger that we've been taken advantage of, snookered by hollow people who have been leading America into directions that have been empty at best, and intentionally destructive at worst, and worst of all filling the airwaves with narcissistic self-promotion over how great they've been to do it. ...

 

"For better or worse, in shuddering fits and starts, maybe this is just how progress happens. Things that were appropriate twenty years ago, or even five, don't pass muster anymore. It happens not gradually, month after month and year after year, but like the movement of a fault line in the earth's crust: long periods of seeming intraction, followed by the inevitable earthquake -- tumultuous social pops, some big, some small, and after that the landscape is just a little bit different. It looks like a surprising thing, and it is, when it happens. But by the same token, it's not. It's predictable. The world is growing up, and those individuals that don't grow up with it tend to get stuck in a place or a time or a schtick as things change and progress around them, and then there's a little pop, an audible noise, a recordable event, and the world moves on, either with them or without them."

[RockHard]

RE: CBS

 

"CBS did not acquit itself well in this case. They were not even-handed and consistent."

 

Well, again, your opinion. Are you an executive at CBS? Do you have any idea what Imus Inc. was worth to CBS? Do you have an agent and a 30-page contract with a major corporation? If you answered yes to at least one of these questions then maybe someone will value your opinion. Kowtowing and strongarming? Too hyperbolic for me. I think your opinion is cynical and maybe more than a bit naive.

 

Unlike the Dan Rather fiasco, I think Moonves made the Imus decision in just the right amount of time. No CEO of any entertainment giant should jump too fast to fire a 30-year veteran star with a major record of success due to foot-in-mouth disease.

 

Unlike MSNBC, which had less invested, the decision to fire Imus was much harder and more serious for CBS. The suspension bought them a little time to think and discuss with all (legal) parties.

 

From what I hear, most executives who know Imus personally believe he is NOT racist or sexist or homophobic. He was paid to be outrageous and most industry folk don't know when they've crossed the line until it's too late and they find themselves on the other side unable to turn back.

 

The times, they are a changin'.

[+ purplekow]

RE: CBS

 

>"CBS did not acquit itself well in this

>case. They were not even-handed and consistent."

>

>Well, again, your opinion. Are you an executive at CBS? Do you

>have any idea what Imus Inc. was worth to CBS? Do you have an

>agent and a 30-page contract with a major corporation? If you

>answered yes to at least one of these questions then maybe

>someone will value your opinion. Kowtowing and strongarming?

>Too hyperbolic for me. I think your opinion is cynical and

>maybe more than a bit naive.

>

>Unlike the Dan Rather fiasco, I think Moonves made the Imus

>decision in just the right amount of time. No CEO of any

>entertainment giant should jump too fast to fire a 30-year

>veteran star with a major record of success due to

>foot-in-mouth disease.

>

>Unlike MSNBC, which had less invested, the decision to fire

>Imus was much harder and more serious for CBS. The suspension

>bought them a little time to think and discuss with all

>(legal) parties.

>

>From what I hear, most executives who know Imus personally

>believe he is NOT racist or sexist or homophobic. He was paid

>to be outrageous and most industry folk don't know when

>they've crossed the line until it's too late and they find

>themselves on the other side unable to turn back.

>

>The times, they are a changin'.

 

Even-handed and consistent are indefinite adjectives and always a matter of opinion. As for the value assigned my opinion by others, that is probably based on how closely you agree or disagree with it. It is likely though that the regard you have for my opinion and the criteria you have arbitrarily set as the standard for having an opinion which anyone might value are yours and yours alone.

 

We both agree that "no CEO of any entertainment giant should jump too fast to fire a 30-year veteran star with a major record of success due to foot-in-mouth disease." But I, as an executive with more experience than I would like to admit to having, would never expect to be held as reasonable and consistent if I had commited to one executive decision (the two week suspension) and then changed it within days (the firing). It suggests that the first decision was rash or rushed or handled inappropriately and/or that the second one was forced or cajoled. Better to take a deep breath and get it right the first time.

 

BTW Estimates put Imus' show as valued at a profit of $15 million per year. This is probably underestimating its value. As for being naive, one would really have be naive to believe that the actions of CBS were not in large part due to outside political pressure and the bottom line. Moral outrage and the harm this type of banter does to our young people, a paraphrase of one CBS take on this, is not likely as high on the list.

 

Thanks for reading.

 

Oh as a sidebar, a check of a reliable Thesaurus leads one to find that naive and cynical are near antonyms. While it is certainly possible for things to have opposite qualities, it would be clearer to the reader and the accused if you would be more precise in your criticism. As an example: I find your ideas naive and your communication cynical.

[+ deej]

RE: CBS

 

>having, would never expect to be held as reasonable and

>consistent if I had commited to one executive decision (the

>two week suspension) and then changed it within days (the

>firing). It suggests that the first decision was rash or

>rushed or handled inappropriately and/or that the second one

>was forced or cajoled. Better to take a deep breath and get

>it right the first time.

 

I do not take objection to the initial 2-week suspension while the final decision was taken under consideration. It's done all the time in many professions.

 

Taking wild-card talent off the air while deciding a course of action seems a prudent action. You NEVER give an open MIC to a guy you're considering either disciplining or firing. Potentially disgruntled employees do not get an open MIC.

 

BUT THEY DID NOT DO THAT! He was on the air with his annual fund raiser the day after being suspended. He even joked on-air that it might be their last fund raiser.

 

I watched news reports that talked about him being suspended for two weeks accompanied by *live* footage of him broadcasting on the radio.

 

He was never actually suspended.

 

CBS definitely didn't handle this well.

[+ purplekow]

RE: CBS

 

You are right of course, that the suspension never happened. I believe CBS executives initially thought that the announcement of the delayed two week suspension would quiet things down. The charity event could go on, which seemed a good idea at the time. MSNBC stepped up the morality stakes when they dropped the show. Things escalated politically. With MSNBC out, financially the stakes were lowered for CBS. Things got hotter and then he was out in mid radiothon.

 

 

I have never seen a purplekow;

I never hope to see one;

I can tell you anyhow;

I'd rather see than be one

 

Help there is a purplekow in my mirror

[Guest]

>Actually, no we can't because it wasn't the free market that

>reigned but rather racist demagogues who, as usual, scared the

>shit out of the media. No one comes out of this looking good.

>

Ultimately, though, it's the advertisers (and consumers) who pay Imus's salary--many millions, as I understand it. Do you not feel the consumer has the right to say "If you pay this guy to promulgate hateful speech, I won't buy your product"?

[FinFangFoom]

>

>No one comes out of this looking good.

>

>I disagree. The Rutgers University Womens basketball team,

>particularly

>the coach, comes out looking very good.

 

 

I didn't mean it in the literal sense - if I had, it would have meant that a 4yo in Guam didn't come out of it looking good. I was referring to those people who interjected themselves into it.

 

However, one of the girls announced that Imus' insult "scarred me for life."

 

Scarred her for LIFE????

 

Please Louise! Some old guy on the radio says something asinine about the entire team and now your life is irrevocably scarred? Although that girl didn't deserve to be insulted, because of HER asinine statement she gets no sympathy from me.

 

Heartlessly yours,

 

FFF

[RockHard]

RE: CBS and you're welcome.

 

"it would be clearer to the reader and the accused

 

The accused? NO ONE is on trial here. Not even your misguided, histrionic, defensive opinion.

 

Thanks for the attempt at an English/writing lesson but I find your talent similar to that of a sensational tabloid. And your defensive posturing displays WAY TOO MUCH insecurity, which I find utterly boring in a man. Even though I think this an interesting topic, baby-sitting an opinion is not a mature way to handle any reasoned discussion.

 

I don't own stock in CBS, I've never met Imus, and Les Moonves is not a personal friend. However, supporting a 30-year employee, who happens to be a very successful entertainer and a shock-jock, while everyone grapples with his/their future and contemplates an unprecedented decision, is serious business. Throw in the volatile issue of free speech and our current political climate and you have an event that can't be controlled and contained with mere experience.

 

I tend to believe in the good of man and I tend to offer someone the benefit of any doubt, especially in very difficult situations. I do this because, as a veteran executive, I know how it feels to be on the hot seat. The feeling of tongue up my ass if far more pleasant than someone's boot, especially when you consider I rarely bottom.

[RockHard]

RE: Scarred for life? Not with Photoshop.

 

"scarred me for life."

 

She sure did give Imus WAY TOO MUCH power and credit. When a young person says something this stupid, the best thing to do is walk away or change the channel. It may take a year or two (possibly a week) but hopefully she'll realize her WAY over-dramatic surrender was completely false and unnecessary.

[+ purplekow]

RE: CBS and you're welcome.

 

>"it would be clearer to the reader and the

>accused

>

>The accused? NO ONE is on trial here. Not even your misguided,

>histrionic, defensive opinion.

>

>Thanks for the attempt at an English/writing lesson but I find

>your talent similar to that of a sensational tabloid.

 

Histrionic. You dont need to be on trial to be accused (Accuse: to charge with fault or offense) and while I am sure you know that, you jump from accused to trial accompanied by with what I envision as a flourish of a multi-colored boa.

 

In trying to punch up your rhetoric, you described my opinion as both cynical and naive. I had not considered that perhaps you wanted to make a purposefully vague statement. So by thinking that you wanted to make a clear and cogent appraisal, I may have been misguided.

[RockHard]

RE: CBS and you're welcome.

 

Clever use of words but they still don't say much.

 

Enjoy your boycott of CBS. Or have I overstated your stand? :-)

[+ purplekow]

RE: CBS and you're welcome.

 

>Clever use of words but they still don't say much.

>

>Enjoy your boycott of CBS. Or have I overstated your stand?

>:-)

 

If I owned stock in the company I would have sold it before its leadership caused me to suffer financially. As for the other products of CBS, my utilization of them will be based on how well they fit my needs.

I believe it was the Reverends Jackson and Sharpton who were going to call for a boycott until Imus was fired. Perhaps they could do all of us a favor and call for a boycott until Katie Couric returns to being on TV at a time when few civilized people are watching CBS. Hold that protest, she already is on at a time when few civilized people are watching CBS. Here's to you Walter Cronkite, our nation turns its lonely eyes to you...

 

 

I have never seen a purplekow;

I never hope to see one;

I can tell you anyhow;

I'd rather see than be one

 

Help there is a purplekow in my mirror

[Guest alanm]

RE: CBS and you're welcome.

 

I do not always agree with Rev. Al Sharpton.

 

However, I was pleased that Sharpton called Bill Maher on his two homophobic monologue jokes last night on HBO.

[Guest zipperzone]

RE: CBS

 

>"CBS did not acquit itself well in this

>case. They were not even-handed and consistent."

>

>Well, again, your opinion. Are you an executive at CBS? Do you

>have any idea what Imus Inc. was worth to CBS? Do you have an

>agent and a 30-page contract with a major corporation? If you

>answered yes to at least one of these questions then maybe

>someone will value your opinion. Kowtowing and strongarming?

>Too hyperbolic for me. I think your opinion is cynical and

>maybe more than a bit naive.

 

Wouldn't it be wonderful to turn on your computer one morning, go to Daddy's Reviews and enter the forum called "The Lounge" and read a posting from RockHard where he didn't come off as knowing more than all other posters - where he didn't put someone down?

 

Dream on.......

[Guest zipperzone]

RE: CBS and you're welcome.

 

>I tend to believe in the good of man and I tend to offer

>someone the benefit of any doubt,

 

Yah right! (hysterical laughter)

 

Can you believe he actually wrote this?

 

Can you believe he also believes it?

[+ purplekow]

RE: CBS

 

.

>

>Wouldn't it be wonderful to turn on your computer one morning,

>go to Daddy's Reviews and enter the forum called "The Lounge"

>and read a posting from RockHard where he didn't come off as

>knowing more than all other posters - where he didn't put

>someone down?

>

>Dream on.......

 

But, we all have our self-delusions. In the recesses of my mind, I know my age, but ask me and my first impulse would be to answer 28. That would be right, if Reagan was in the White House.

 

I have never seen a purplekow;

I never hope to see one;

I can tell you anyhow;

I'd rather see than be one

 

Help there is a purplekow in my mirror

[RockHard]

RE: CBS

 

"Wouldn't it be wonderful to turn on your computer one morning, go to Daddy's Reviews and enter the forum called "The Lounge" and read a posting from RockHard where he didn't come off as knowing more than all other posters"

 

Well, zipperzone, feel free to be angry with me because you're so...empty and put down.

 

Sometimes I do know more than other posters, sometimes I don't. I always enjoy sharing company and discussion with a man who knows more. Pity-party whiners, like yourself, are a bore. I tend to gravitate toward smarter men and I typically don't care what they look like or how big their dick is. And if the subject turns to something out of my realm of interest, I do my best to refrain from looking like a fool. But I'm always curious and eager to learn new things and I'm NEVER shy about admitting what I don't know.

 

"where he didn't come off"

 

I'm not sure I have much control over how I "come off." Readers are free to make their own judgments and I think those judgments have more to do with the reader than they do me. I know where I stand and it's not with you, dear.

 

"where he didn't put someone down?"

 

Another insecure adult male in need of a baby pacifier. Here, zip, suck on this: http://www.southeastmissourihospital.com/generations/images/passifer.gif

 

Challenging someone to open his mind to broader thinking is NOT the same thing as putting someone down. Only an insecure man would think it is.