How many of us would say some clients are sociopaths?

[Mocha]

Before anyone reads: this subject addresses possible mental health concerns. In America, with the latest of gun violence and other tragic events, we often speak on mental health being something politicians and health care providers need to provide. In this thread, I’m asking that also instead take initiative to address our own mental well-being, for the sake of bettering our relations between clients and escorts. We can’t only wait for the government to address such concerns. We should want to be able to discuss then amongst ourselves.

 

Psychopathy is traditionally a personality disorder characterized by persistent antisocial behavior, impaired empathy and remorse, and bold, disinhibited, and egotistical traits. It is sometimes considered synonymous with sociopathy.

 

I bring this up because it seems that some of the conversations I’ve had with clients seem to borderline this behavior.

 

That’s not a diss to all clients or to say everyone is like that, but some of the daily texts and even when I (occasionally) spend time with clients off clock...seem to make me question it.

 

Some examples: a regular client of mine in LA told me how he made up a lie to a relative to cover up our time together. In turn, he ended up also lying to me (by omission) ...but all together it made no sense why he was lying to begin with.

 

Another client, who I missed a session with couple weeks ago, made a statement about him and another provider (whom I have no idea is) having a great time together. Why he felt the need to voice that to me, I don’t know. But I’m sure he wouldn’t have cared to hear about the dozen or so people I’ve had a great time with since our last session attempt.

 

These are just 2 examples of many. Has anyone else noticed such things, and wonder if perhaps some sociopathic traits are at work?

Edited April 25, 2019 by Mocha

[maninsoma]

Do some clients have some sociopathic tendencies? I'm sure some do. I am good friends with one escort and what he had to deal with regarding one former client was beyond the pale. I don't think either example you posted is close to sociopathic, though. I don't want to excuse lying, but if you are going to label a sociopath everyone who lies occasionally -- especially in attempt to hide something they'd rather not be known by others -- then there are probably more sociopaths than not. Your second example is just someone being insensitive to someone else's feelings. Either he wasn't thinking about the potential impact of what he was saying or he assumed that since you are an escort and not a boyfriend/lover that you wouldn't be hurt or bothered by his sharing information about an encounter with another guy but that rather you might get a kick out of hearing about it. I seldom hire any more but when I did and regularly saw someone, I definitely told him about many of my other positive experiences with escorts. I certainly knew that he saw many other clients and I don't think he had any expectation that he should be the only escort I saw.

[+ Pensant]

Agree with @maninsoma. According to Martha Stout MD, in her book The Sociopath Next Door, the prevalence rate is about 4%, so undoubtedly most of us have encountered them or even have sociopathic relatives. I’m sure providers encounter them as well, although I think in most cases it’s more fear or self-loathing that leads to what you might think is sociopathy.

[SirBillybob]

The math, then, is the same proportion of escorts and clients alike are full-blown sociopathic at the epidemiological prevalence rate.

 

Sub-sociopathic patterns slightly differ ... (Some) Escorts may alter or embellish facts to their advantage as a natural and understandable component of performative labour. (Some) Clients may alter truth or reality more specifically within the context of hiring, more so than in daily life, as there is implicit latitude in a substantially priced role-play scenario, possibly leading to the perceived fallacy that clients as a whole may be somewhat over-representative of pathology compared to the general population.

 

This is an interesting thread. And I admit I have been made. Upon reflection, I qualify as situationally sub-sociopathic. In other-words, the entire enterprise is benignly crazy-making. Thank god for money and money shots.

[+ keroscenefire]

I think it would be a stretch to call either of your examples "sociopathy." I guess you did clarify it as "sociopathic traits." I only took Psychology 101 but from what I recall and what I read up on, sociopathy is a bit more persistent and extreme than what you experienced. Sure sociopaths lie but so do a lot of people and your clients lies could be to protect the feelings of a loved one or to maybe impress you, which is actually not really sociopathic. Sure some sociopaths maybe are trying to say hurtful things, but it's hard to even guess if that is the person's intention (maybe he was just nervous or bragging).

 

This Mayo Clinic article has a bit more about Antisocial personality disorder (the closest diagnosable thing to psychopath or sociopathy, which are not actually psychological terms).

[marylander1940]

Psychopathy is traditionally a personality disorder characterized by persistent antisocial behavior, impaired empathy and remorse, and bold, disinhibited, and egotistical traits. It is sometimes considered synonymous with sociopathy.

 

I bring this up because it seems that some of the conversations I’ve had with clients seem to borderline this behavior.

 

Clients know you have to play along, that's why they feel more open to talking about you.

 

That’s not a diss to all clients or to say everyone is like that, but some of the daily texts and even when I (occasionally) spend time with clients off clock...seem to make me question it.

 

Some folks on here have expressed lack of self confidence when it comes to interactions with other persons while others can't stop bragging about all the sex they allegedly have on Grindr, Tinder, Home Depo guys, etc. How do we know what's real and what isn't?

 

Some examples: a regular client of mine in LA told me how he made up a lie to a relative to cover up our time together. In turn, he ended up also lying to me (by omission) ...but all together it made no sense why he was lying to begin with.

 

He just made up an excuse to getting together with you, that's all.

 

Another client, who I missed a session with couple weeks ago, made a statement about him and another provider (whom I have no idea is) having a great time together. Why he felt the need to voice that to me, I don’t know. But I’m sure he wouldn’t have cared to hear about the dozen or so people I’ve had a great time with since our last session attempt.

 

Maybe he's moving on or he's just telling you he likes to hire other men. Did he want you to feel jealous or jealou$?

 

 

Nah, is just folks being flaky and bothering escorts.

[SirBillybob]

In clinical parlance, the person has to meet an expansive list of criteria rigorously assessed by a registered pro in order to be diagnosed with Anti-social Personality Disorder, under which the more outdated 'sociopathy' is loosely subsumed. There is considerable consensus that there is little that can be effectively done to mitigate the disorder. As such, the diagnosis pretty much stands permanently.

 

In layperson settings, someone termed personality disordered has typically done an objectionable, unlikeable, disagreeable thing to the assessor in order to earn the label. The "diagnosis" pretty much stands permanently, the difference being that the record is not professionally sealed disclosure-wise.

[LivingnLA]

I don't have the time right now to write a thorough response to this thread, but I'll leave you with a few articles that should make it abundantly clear that a sizable percentage of clients are likely on the psychopathic spectrum and there are many reasons why. This hobby requires money and it's important to understand that our culture is dysfunctional and rewards those able to excel at actions, beliefs, and decisions that are psychopathic. Just look at the current occupants of the white house to see many psychopathic traits and personalities on display.

 

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/basics/psychopathy

 

https://psychcentral.com/blog/differences-between-a-psychopath-vs-sociopath/

 

https://hbr.org/2004/10/executive-psychopaths

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/victorlipman/2013/04/25/the-disturbing-link-between-psychopathy-and-leadership/

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/on-small-business/wp/2016/09/16/gene-marks-21-percent-of-ceos-are-psychopaths-only-21-percent/

[Mocha]

Wow, I’m pleased with the supportive responses so far. I was a bit reluctant to post this because I didn’t want to make it seem like I was saying: “because clients hire us, they are sociopaths”. Rather I’m saying: there are clients who hire us, but they “MAY” display sociopathic personalities.

 

I know this is a deep topic. But if we (as Americans) are going to tout mental health, decriminalization, we need to first take initiative to address the issues within our community.

 

My whole deal is I feel clients (and even gay/bi men in general) sometimes say/do things that come off as socio in subtle ways. It may not come off as such initially, but it could resurface later. Real life Examples:

 

Client hires me. Invited me to a swingers club. Fair enough. He’s paying the entrance fee, and inviting me since I don’t always host when I’m at “home”. However when I walk in to meet him, he’s getting his ass ate tongue deep by another dude, despite him expecting my arrival. Hot...but why did he think it was not “weird?” I jumped in, but the dude felt like he was interrupting, and so did I. We later met and discussed the encounter, and it was clear we were both confused about what this possibly sociopathic client was doing.

 

Another example: after having a very hot session with a client, he proceeds to tell me a story about his free hookup...who somehow brung along another black guy to fuck him. Somehow this guy’s dick was 12 inches and felt like a log in his ass, and he couldn’t handle it and the guy was upset.

 

I’m thinking to myself: WHAT THE...why are we having this conversation? I listened and went along, but it was slightly demeaning and didn’t belong in the situation. Needless to say, he wasn’t quite respectful from the get go to begin with.

 

These are the type of things that make me realize more and more I’m not always dealing with a full deck (pardon my Vegas lingo, I’ve been hanging out here lately) when it comes to certain clients.

[thickornotatall]

Mutual attraction? Birds of a feather? Maybe you attract your doppelganger. Finding a client to be a sociopathic type says a great deal as to who gravitates to you.

[+ WilliamM]

 

Clients know you have to play along, that's why they feel more open to talking about you.

 

 

Some folks on here have expressed lack of self confidence when it comes to interactions with other persons while others can't stop bragging about all the sex they allegedly have on Grindr, Tinder, Home Depo guys, etc. How do we know what's real and what isn't?

 

 

He just made up an excuse to getting together with you, that's all.

 

 

Maybe he's moving on or he's just telling you he likes to hire other men. Did he want you to feel jealous or jealou$?

 

 

Nah, is just folks being flaky and bothering escorts.

 

@marylander1940 covered it in his response. @Mocha, I greatly respect you, but escorting is not easy and requires a dozen or so skills. You have all the skills. But your examples seem routine, except your dumb client who did not even notice you while his ass was being played.

[SirBillybob]

Apart from the statistical reality of personality morbidity and the implications of displeasing a provider that the client can move on from (contextual consideration-sorting), sexual excitation situations typically involve impulsive, less deliberative filters on behavioural choices.

 

In heat in the heat of the moment, the elevated possibility of disinhibition.

 

Failing to apply a condom where in this case the prophylactic is a metaphor for more thoughtful cognitive processing. The outcome risk not pregnancy or STI, in analogous terms, but a poor impression of character.

 

Horny clients, like many guys, are using more intuitive fast brain functions, dodging conventionally valued social comportment, consequences be comparatively damned, whereas the provider is drawing on more advanced sophisticated slow brain processes (slow not meaning dumb).

 

I think this has been described as the little head governing the big head. Sex is transient mental deficiency. Treat it with release or a bucket of ice water.

 

Sure, some folks are simply bat-crap cray-cray, but I would not judge personality according to a loaded and thematically circumscribed commercial situation where the interplay of physiology and rational thought can be so off kilter.

 

If ANY of my family and social circle knew what I got up to as a hirer, even though I am financially very solvent, I would be deemed to be perverted and wasteful, sick, damaged, worthy of a structured intervention. It would eclipse most salutary aspects of their view of me. Similarly, I am only human and quick to judge behaviour out of the (my) ordinary. And, for me, my choices about engaging trade make perfect sense, mainly because they are mine.

 

Providers should perhaps hope that clients are just disturbed enough, viz suspending rational thought, to capitulate to purchasing fleeting pleasure, yet fall short of the thresholds of psychopathology that would make the profession untenable.

Edited April 25, 2019 by SirBIllybob