A software CTO's rant about quality of renter websites

[execpdx2016]

I'm a couple decades into my software career, and currently the CTO of a firm that builds large, gorgeous web and mobile apps for enterprises.

 

Been hooking up since BBSs and AOL; been hiring since 2008 and several sessions per year since.

 

I have a constant cognitive dissonance between my day job, and my #1 private hobby of renting/etc. I constantly see so many miss opportunities - the ability for renters to recruit; giving rentees private review and support systems; allowing for local private networks; increasing real ID verification for both parties while shifting costs off of the rentees; facilitating recurring arrangements with incentives; so many more.

 

And the UX! I'll skip all the websites and go straight to rent.men. They've done the best of the market, but their journey flows and tech stack are still missing the mark. Also they could go so much further into their advertiser experience than they do.

 

I'm constantly tempted to get some fellow cloud software nerds together and go after this market (have a side glance to the bareback market too but that is another line of thought). Always stop myself because I know how hard it is to launch and sustain (that's my consulting day job!), and I don't know all the ins and outs of international jurisdiction.

 

End of rant . Thanks for letting me get it out there

[rvwnsd]

I'm a couple decades into my software career, and currently the CTO of a firm that builds large, gorgeous web and mobile apps for enterprises.

 

Been hooking up since BBSs and AOL; been hiring since 2008 and several sessions per year since.

 

I have a constant cognitive dissonance between my day job, and my #1 private hobby of renting/etc. I constantly see so many miss opportunities - the ability for renters to recruit; giving rentees private review and support systems; allowing for local private networks; increasing real ID verification for both parties while shifting costs off of the rentees; facilitating recurring arrangements with incentives; so many more.

 

And the UX! I'll skip all the websites and go straight to rent.men. They've done the best of the market, but their journey flows and tech stack are still missing the mark. Also they could go so much further into their advertiser experience than they do.

 

I'm constantly tempted to get some fellow cloud software nerds together and go after this market (have a side glance to the bareback market too but that is another line of thought). Always stop myself because I know how hard it is to launch and sustain (that's my consulting day job!), and I don't know all the ins and outs of international jurisdiction.

 

End of rant . Thanks for letting me get it out there

Funny you should say that because I've contemplated forming a consulting business that focuses on helping escorts write their ads. I look at some of them, shake my head, and say to myself "you aren't going to attract paying client with that!"

 

OK, all done.

[execpdx2016]

See? Another market need right there

[+ FreshFluff]

Would placing servers overseas sufficiently mitigate the legal risk?

 

I have a constant cognitive dissonance between my day job, and my #1 private hobby of renting/etc. I constantly see so many miss opportunities - the ability for renters to recruit; giving rentees private review and support systems; allowing for local private networks; increasing real ID verification for both parties while shifting costs off of the rentees; facilitating recurring arrangements with incentives; so many more.

 

This is a good idea, but from what I've seen, a lot of MtM clients will walk. (Clients of female escorts have historically been more willing to give up this info.) And now, after the Ashley Madison hack, no one trusts that their info is safe.

[execpdx2016]

A fair amount of my interest in better ID verification is that, at a certain angle, I like the stricter laws to make it harder for sex slavery, exploitation, and in my experiences over several years, young guys that are coming from a place of fear or desperation. But once some verification is done (both sides; slower process); maybe some credit card fees, I feel like a fair percentage of the worst scenarios are filtered out.

[execpdx2016]

Would placing servers overseas sufficiently mitigate the legal risk?

 

No idea; but I think the default assumption should be no

[+ sniper]

There's also the question of how much money are you going to be willing to sink into an increasingly risky business venture in the wake of FOSTA/SESTA?

[+ FreshFluff]

There's also the question of how much money are you going to be willing to sink into an increasingly risky business venture in the wake of FOSTA/SESTA?

 

This is what I was alluding to.

[execpdx2016]

I am still pondering this topic a bit.

 

An escort website. Gorgeous experience made by silicon valley designers, empowering features, no censorship. Stronger anti-sex trade and exploitation features then all current dating websites and social networks (strong ID, AI trust scoring, anonymous key-based 3rd party background checks). Payment options, escrows, and subscriptions to escorts. Hit the SA.com market in the same go. Rotating overseas hosting providers. Owners and builders with zero fingerprint, oversight by former government hackers.

 

Major market traction issue around only using bitcoin, etc. Difficult and unwise for owners to convert to any currency ever. Thats a potential deal breaker. Otherwise I am trying to understand why the endeavor isn't honorable, with merit, and sensibly profitable at least as a lifestyle business.

[+ sniper]

I am still pondering this topic a bit.

 

An escort website. Gorgeous experience made by silicon valley designers, empowering features, no censorship. Stronger anti-sex trade and exploitation features then all current dating websites and social networks (strong ID, AI trust scoring, anonymous key-based 3rd party background checks). Payment options, escrows, and subscriptions to escorts. Hit the SA.com market in the same go. Rotating overseas hosting providers. Owners and builders with zero fingerprint, oversight by former government hackers.

 

Major market traction issue around only using bitcoin, etc. Difficult and unwise for owners to convert to any currency ever. Thats a potential deal breaker. Otherwise I am trying to understand why the endeavor isn't honorable, with merit, and sensibly profitable at least as a lifestyle business.

The issue is legality. Current US law makes basically no distinction between people trafficking others against their will and the facilitators of willing transactions, and the "you pay for time, not activity" line does not pass most juries "reasonable doubt" test. The downside is nearly infinite, the upside is limited.

[Shawn Monroe]

I would also say an issue that most people don’t take into account is critical mass. You have to persuade enough escorts and clients away from their current systems and on to you yours that enough people will continue to use it.

 

That also involves establishing enough top of mind awareness and establishing trust that many Don’t take into account. They won’t just use yours because it’s (in your opinion) better.

 

I mean we are still floundering around to find a replacement for rebtboy, Craigslist and backpage (and now tumblr) because of their critical mass. Lack of Critical mass is why so many social networks (and quite frankly, escort sites) fail.

[execpdx2016]

The issue is legality. Current US law makes basically no distinction between people trafficking others against their will and the facilitators of willing transactions, and the "you pay for time, not activity" line does not pass most juries "reasonable doubt" test. The downside is nearly infinite, the upside is limited.

 

Totally. The product would be illegal without a doubt. Yet it would, for both humane and PR purposes, have stronger anti-trafficking measures than all social networks, and flaunt it. Wouldn't take much to make that claim. But yes, illegal and thus all the mitigations above.

[execpdx2016]

I mean we are still floundering around to find a replacement for rebtboy, Craigslist and backpage (and now tumblr) because of their critical mass. Lack of Critical mass is why so many social networks (and quite frankly, escort sites) fail.

 

One thing I'd agree with you here is that traction for these types of products is exceptionally slow. Rentboy was 20 years old when it was taken down. No one should do a product like this expecting much more than a lifestyle business with sensible margins.

 

I agree with adoption being a cause of social network failures. Only difference here I think is valid: the market is absolutely shit. Rent.men is the current winner, but they are clearly not innovating and, instead, culling value to avoid litigation.

[execpdx2016]

There's also the question of how much money are you going to be willing to sink into an increasingly risky business venture in the wake of FOSTA/SESTA?

 

I think the owners should expect a lifestyle business with sensible margins. Perhaps a pleasure in protest. Rotating the site on offshore servers isn't the challenge. Limiting human error that causes detection by law enforcement is. Also it would have to be a bitcoin/etc only service, and this could be fatal as it means all involved know what to do.

[+ FreshFluff]

I think the owners should expect a lifestyle business with sensible margins. Perhaps a pleasure in protest. Rotating the site on offshore servers isn't the challenge. Limiting human error that causes detection by law enforcement is. Also it would have to be a bitcoin/etc only service, and this could be fatal as it means all involved know what to do.

 

Unfortunately, "lifestyle businesses" often attract investors and employees who like to boast. RB's management was particularly careless, but it would take a lot less error to attract LE attention today.

[rvwnsd]

I think the owners should expect a lifestyle business with sensible margins. Perhaps a pleasure in protest. Rotating the site on offshore servers isn't the challenge. Limiting human error that causes detection by law enforcement is. Also it would have to be a bitcoin/etc only service, and this could be fatal as it means all involved know what to do.

I wouldn't rely on a cryptocurrency-only model to deter law enforcement. In the US, the Fed and FinCen are both looking into how to monitor and regulate them. There's an international financial crimes agency, whose name escapes me at the moment, that is also determining how to do so.

[execpdx2016]

Unfortunately, "lifestyle businesses" often attract investors and employees who like to boast. RB's management was particularly careless, but it would take a lot less error to attract LE attention today.

 

And SilkRoad, and so many others. This aspect is a harsh blocker, definitely. *sigh*

 

I ponder, if such a platform existed, community moderation and administration could achieve the bulk of governance. In such a model, no IDs would be known. Stretching, I know It's what bottoms do!

[execpdx2016]

I wouldn't rely on a cryptocurrency-only model to deter law enforcement. In the US, the Fed and FinCen are both looking into how to monitor and regulate them. There's an international financial crimes agency, whose name escapes me at the moment, that is also determining how to do so.

 

I've tried seeking, in both popular and academic sources, some hint that currencies like Monero are vulnerable. The product could not protect users from themselves, of course, but it could protect itself.

 

The more I look into this, the more I am surprised that this forum is not hosting offshore and with an anonymous hosting provider. Seems risky