Sex Addiction

[LookingAround]

Rudynate for the win!

[Deadlift1]

a lot of very good input.

[Zapped]

Compulsive behaviours which are harmful and cannot be stopped even if stopping is desired are addictions. That is the distinction. Eating is an example of a compulsive behaviour that is not an addiction, except in the case where someone knows that their manner of eating is harming them & wants to stop their compulsive eating habits but cannot. In that case it is an addiction.

 

As I said in my earlier reply on this topic, I find it not only helpful but, at least in this phase of life, to use the word “addiction” to describe my relationship with erotic videos, porn, and phone sex to myself. And clearly it is very helpful for the many other men in SAA and other 12-step programs for whom the program is working.

 

I also understand that “addiction” is used by some people, particularly medical professionals, very narrowly, in the way that RudyNate has articulated. And some of us use it more loosely, with a broader definition. This includes lay people like you and me, and also some counselors and some clinical psychologists and psychiatrists.

 

In my subjective experience, I experience it as an “addiction,” even though there is no external chemical involved. From an objective, empirical point of view, if there’s not an external chemical involved, it doesn’t fit the narrow, formal definition used by the psychiatric research community.

 

Hope I got that right!

[FTM Zachary Prince]

That is incorrect. A compulsion is a repetitive behavior from which an actor is unable to refrain. An addiction is a compulsion compounded by a physical dependency.

 

I don’t agree with your definition. So we will have to agree to disagree. As Zapped has pointed out, your opinion about what an addiction is isn’t shared by everyone. My definition isn’t “incorrect” simply because the DSM doesn’t agree with it. The DSM has regularly been wrong about lots of things since its inception.

[LivingnLA]

Facts matter. Definitions matter. Language matters. We all have opinions and just like assholes, they stink sometimes.

 

Educated adults with strong critical-thinking should be open-minded and careful in our language use. I'm guilty of sloppy or lazy language use sometimes. English is a pain in the ass because of the rapid casual use of so many words that still have context-specific technical meanings.

 

http://changingminds.org/explanations/behaviors/habit/habit_compulsion_addiction.htm

 

https://www.verywellmind.com/the-difference-between-an-addiction-and-a-compulsion-22240

 

As I said to @Zapped above, if using the term "addiction" is helpful for him, great! But, that doesn't change reality or the fact that sound reliable research does not currently support the existence of "sex addiction." We'll see how the research goes over the coming decades because this is not settled, but based on what I know, my money is on it being a compulsive disorder.

 

The WHO even recently added a "Compulsive Sexual Behavior Disorder" to the ICD-11 earlier this year.

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/sex-addiction-vs-compulsive-sexual-behavior-disorder-2018-7

[bnm73]

Facts matter. Definitions matter. Language matters. We all have opinions and just like assholes, they stink sometimes.

 

Educated adults with strong critical-thinking should be open-minded and careful in our language use. I'm guilty of sloppy or lazy language use sometimes. English is a pain in the ass because of the rapid casual use of so many words that still have context-specific technical meanings.

 

http://changingminds.org/explanations/behaviors/habit/habit_compulsion_addiction.htm

 

https://www.verywellmind.com/the-difference-between-an-addiction-and-a-compulsion-22240

 

As I said to @Zapped above, if using the term "addiction" is helpful for him, great! But, that doesn't change reality or the fact that sound reliable research does not currently support the existence of "sex addiction." We'll see how the research goes over the coming decades because this is not settled, but based on what I know, my money is on it being a compulsive disorder.

 

The WHO even recently added a "Compulsive Sexual Behavior Disorder" to the ICD-11 earlier this year.

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/sex-addiction-vs-compulsive-sexual-behavior-disorder-2018-7

 

I have to concur with this.

 

If you're talking about a diagnosis, then the word "addiction" means something specific and has specific connotations.

 

Just like if you're talking about the legal realm, the word "collusion" has a specific definition and specific connotations.

 

Another example: In the tax realm, "income" means something very specific, and is different from the every-day use of the word.

 

In all of those examples, the colloquial use of the words tends to be much broader than the definition in the specialized areas. If you're going to talk about one of those those areas (such as "addiction" in a diagnostic/medical/psychological context), then it's nothing but simple sophistry and sheer sloppiness to use a broader definition that doesn't necessarily apply.

[Rudynate]

I don’t agree with your definition. So we will have to agree to disagree. As Zapped has pointed out, your opinion about what an addiction is isn’t shared by everyone. My definition isn’t “incorrect” simply because the DSM doesn’t agree with it. The DSM has regularly been wrong about lots of things since its inception.

 

No, they don't always get it right. But I did notice that they get it right with respect to problem gambling. Not a word in the description about addiction. They call it what it is, a disorder.

[Kenny]

It’s wild that there are gay people who actually think the DSM is some kind of authority on anything. Seriously??? You don’t know enough by now to know that it’s flawed and biased???

 

Any behaviour that is harming someone, which they desire to stop but return to and repeat compulsively is an ADDICTION. Regardless of whatever the fucking DSM has to say about it.

 

The DSM had transgender people defined as inherently mentally ill until only this year. And some of you think it’s a worthy authority to define our issues by. Amazing. Critical thinking skills are severely lacking sometimes.

 

Maybe some people are coming from a place of feeling defensive because they have been accused of being sex addicts for being promiscuous. Promiscuity is not sex addiction. But sex addiction is certainly real.

You need to figure out the differences between “authority” and “consensus.” One is about dominance and control, the other is about a socially constructed hunch. One sets up an obstacle to change, the other invites it.

 

The DSM is consensus, not authority. That’s why it changes.

[Rudynate]

You need to figure out the differences between “authority” and “consensus.” One is about dominance and control, the other is about a socially constructed hunch. One sets up an obstacle to change, the other invites it.

 

The DSM is consensus, not authority. That’s why it changes.

 

prescriptive vs. descriptive

[LookingAround]

The DSM is consensus, not authority. That’s why it changes.

 

Lol who told you that? If you don’t think it’s authority try getting insurance to pay for a mental health visit without a specific DSM code. Insurance doesn’t pay for consensus beliefs.

[Kenny]

Lol who told you that? If you don’t think it’s authority try getting insurance to pay for a mental health visit without a specific DSM code. Insurance doesn’t pay for consensus beliefs.

Yes, insurance does. How an insurance company may or may not use the DSM says more about them than it.

 

Authority is "the power or right to give orders, make decisions, and enforce obedience." The DSM has no enforcement power. Zero. There's a reason it's called the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual.

[LookingAround]

Yes, insurance does. How an insurance company may or may not use the DSM says more about them than it.

 

Authority is "the power or right to give orders, make decisions, and enforce obedience." The DSM has no enforcement power. Zero. There's a reason it's called the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual.

I’m a doctor who bills insurance carriers. They require a DSM or ICD code for reimbursement. How many claims have you submitted as a provider?

[Deadlift1]

We went off topic. So i will ask two additional questions.

What percentage of providers do u think are sex addicts? What percentage of clients do u think are sex addicts?

 

My guess is at least a 1/3 of each group.

[FTM Zachary Prince]

• addiction – a brain disorder characterized by compulsive engagement in rewarding stimuli despite adverse consequences
  

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_addiction

 

“Animal research involving rats that exhibit compulsive sexual behavior has identified that this behavior is mediated through the same molecular mechanisms in the brain that mediate drug addiction.[44][45][44][46] Sexual activity is an intrinsic reward that has been shown to act as a positive reinforcer, strongly activate the reward system, and induce the accumulation of ΔFosBin part of the striatum (specifically, the nucleus accumbens).[44][45][46] Chronic and excessive activation of certain pathways within the reward system and the accumulation of ΔFosB in a specific group of neurons within the nucleus accumbens has been directly implicated in the development of the compulsive behavior that characterizes addiction.[45][47][48][49]”

Edited September 13, 2018 by FTM Zachary Prince

[FTM Zachary Prince]

We went off topic. So i will ask two additional questions.

What percentage of providers do u think are sex addicts? What percentage of clients do u think are sex addicts?

 

My guess is at least a 1/3 of each group.

 

Less than 1/3 for escorts. Sex addiction is not conducive to being successful as an escort. There’s nothing about escorting that satisfies the compulsiveness on our part. Quite the opposite, in fact. People might GET INTO sex work because they have some kind of addiction toward sex, and they think that this would’ve a good way to monetise the fact that they’re having lots of sex anyway. But being a successful escort in the long run requires setting healthy boundaries and treating this work as a real job. Endeavours that addictive tendencies are really not conducive to at all. That’s not to say that absolutely no one can manage to combine the two. But very few can.

 

On the client’s side, I couldn’t really speculate a percentage, but the client side of things IS much more conducive to satisfying compulsive urges. I know for sure that at least some significant percentage of clients have addictive tendencies. They go thru cycles where they realize that the way they’re engaging with the industry is damaging their life, swear to quit, manage for some time, compulsively return to hiring, often even detailing their addictive tendencies to their providers. In the phone sex world this is particularly common, probably due to the very accessible, instant-gratification nature of phone calls. Hard to say that I could agree with 1/3 tho. It also really depends on who you are and how you market yourself what percentage of the clients you attract will have addictive tendencies. I’ve literally put the word “addicted” in phone sex listings before and that of course attracts a higher percentage of them. But it’s well known in that world amongst PSOs in general that a high percentage of the clients cycle in and out due to issues with compulsion, addiction, or whatever else you want to call it.

Edited September 13, 2018 by FTM Zachary Prince

[Kenny]

I’m a doctor who bills insurance carriers. They require a DSM or ICD code for reimbursement. How many claims have you submitted as a provider?

No one said they didn’t. Irrelevant to what I wrote. In fact, you are confirming what I wrote — that the insurer, not the DSM, is calling the shots. So thanks!

Edited September 14, 2018 by Kenny

[Tarty]

LOL - unless you guys are psychiatrists, I think we're at an impasse and these are really just informed opinions vs. professional facts ; - )

[LookingAround]

LOL - unless you guys are psychiatrists, I think we're at an impasse

Actually I am!

[Deadlift1]

alright!

[MrMattBig]

Omg!

Wow!

Such testy arguments over the meaning of addiction.

What most of us can agree on, at least slightly, is that addiction is typically, and/or scientifically indicated by physical/chemical dependency.

Since our entire bodily function is predicated by chemistry, every dependency or action in harmful excess can be argued into the definition of addiction.

What is the difference, is what society, scientists, and researchers have labeled(to some extend arbitrarily) as more controllable versus less controllable when addressing the action of stopping. Agree to disagree with what is and isn't, and what has been labeled as such.

Like another poster mentioned, what may not be labeled an addiction today might be labeled one tomorrow and vice versa.

[+ HornyRetiree]

Seems to me that those with HIGH Libidos, who act on them and have much more sex than many! are quickly labeled "sex addicts" by those with lower libidos and LESS SEX!!!

 

I know that up into my early 60s, I came 5-7x a day -- Body needed it -- At my current age (70) 5-7x a week! Of course some was masturbation BUT most was with then wife or other males. I traveled and it was very easy to get blow jobs along the way -- MUCH EASIER then , than today!

 

To me, it crosses into addiction if it messes up your life -- If not, we are all individuals, we have different sex drives/libidos and we choose to act on or suppress them!

 

Time to honor individual differences. Just think, when I was younger, if I had been smart enough to turn my libido into financial gain:):)

[Deadlift1]

Hang on Alexis. No one is labeling anyone a sex addict.

[LADoug1]

That is incorrect. A compulsion is a repetitive behavior from which an actor is unable to refrain. An addiction is a compulsion compounded by a physical dependency.

 

I would add psychological dependency to the addiction definition.

[Rudynate]

I would add psychological dependency to the addiction definition.

 

 

I think that's reduntant. Characterizing it as a compulsion implies psycholgical dependency.

[Rudynate]

• addiction – a brain disorder characterized by compulsive engagement in rewarding stimuli despite adverse consequences
  

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_addiction

 

“Animal research involving rats that exhibit compulsive sexual behavior has identified that this behavior is mediated through the same molecular mechanisms in the brain that mediate drug addiction.[44][45][44][46] Sexual activity is an intrinsic reward that has been shown to act as a positive reinforcer, strongly activate the reward system, and induce the accumulation of ΔFosBin part of the striatum (specifically, the nucleus accumbens).[44][45][46] Chronic and excessive activation of certain pathways within the reward system and the accumulation of ΔFosB in a specific group of neurons within the nucleus accumbens has been directly implicated in the development of the compulsive behavior that characterizes addiction.[45][47][48][49]”

 

Wikipedia is not an authoritative source.