Will & Grace: It's Over

[ValleyDwellerNorth]

SPOILER

DO NOT READ IF YOU HAVEN'T SEEN THE FINAL EPISODE

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So, the show is over. From past discussions here I know not too many of you cared for the show at all for various reasons (one of the main characters is straight playing gay, over the top stereotypes, etc.).

 

With all of that aside, and for those of you that enjoyed the show, what did you think of the ending? They did take a page from "Six Feet Under" and did a little bit of the future thing. For a moment, I thought Will and Grace would be dead. I knew the minute I saw the scene with Will and Grace's kids at college was NOT a flash back before they even spoke because the light fixtures were a bit too modern for college in the 80's. I thought that was a cool scene. And Karen and Jack singing their life together ... that was cool. All in all, I think it was a good ending to the whole series.

 

Thoughts? Opinions?

[Greathands]

Towards the beginning of the show, I thought the whole looking forward thing might be a bit hokey.

 

However, having watched the whole episode, I enjoyed it. It was good to get "more of the story".

 

The ending to Queer As Folk was like reading a novel, and then finding that the last chapter had been ripped out.

 

I'm glad Will & Grace had an epilogue.

[+ deej]

I liked some things and didn't like others.

 

I was utterly ASTOUNDED at the singing scene. Megan Mullaly, who actually is a pretty good singer, sang the whole thing in "Karen" voice and sounded un-fucking-believable. She showed a side of her talent I hadn't seen before.

 

The rest of the show was, eh, so so.

 

They've definitely done away with the idea of a reunion show any time in the next 20 years unless they all age exactly the way they did in the finale.

 

Some parts were funny. Others weren't. And that pretty much sums up the whole run of the series. Sometimes it's on, sometimes it isn't.

[mmk]

I had not really watched the series for the past few years but I did tonight. I loved the retrospective and interviews for the first hour. I always find those to be interesting.

 

I was hoping for better for the actual episode myself. I could buy the falling out part and their were some funny scene and some poignant ones (especially when Grace looked around the apartment and mentioned she doesn't live there anymore) but I thought they kind of stirred to schmaltz part a little too much. To have 16+ years go by and them not meet until their kids got to college seemed a bit to basic sitcom (which too me, even when the show was off, it was still better than 95% of the sitcoms currently on tv). It was nice to see they nixed the idea of a reunion show or a long rumored show with either Jack or Karen (which, if done right, could have gone on for a while, a la Frasier).

 

Still, the show was groundbreaking in the fact that it had a gay leading man that was not overly feminine or queenly, just a guy that everyone knows. For that it definitely made its mark in tv history.

[bigguyinpasadena]

Did they let all the funny writers leave a little early?

Bif o;' snore fest!

And could Debra Messing have been any more"sincere"during the first hour?

If the pilot and firsr season had been this pedestrian the xhow would have never made it.

PS-the only male male kiss was with Will and a guy in a body cast.And Jack is totally neutered and lives with a woman in his declining years=yawn.

[JT Brooklyn]

MHO..The Show had it's Good episodes and Really stupid episodes. BUT most agree, that was still better than "No Episodes" with some Gay Content! Now All these American Idol and whatever Programs will definitely Bury Sitcoms! At least for the forseeable future.

 

BUT it's all about the Demographic's on the Major Networks! IMHO of course... :P

[edjames]

The final episode was OK. I thought it was nice, but not unexpected, that the show ended on a happy note.

 

The highlight of the hour was Jack and Karen's duet of Nat King Cole's "Unforgettable." That made the whole show worthwhile and in a way, left me wanting more of the same. Sean's piano playing and Megan's fabulous singing made for a wonderful and touching TV moment.

 

Now if we could get them out on the road and onto Broadway, I'd buy a ticket. Megan was previously in "How To Succeed..." with Matthew Broderick and Sarah Jessic Parker.

 

I understand Megan's next gig is a talk show. Yuck!

 

EdJ

[Guest Tristan]

RE: Will & Grace: It's Over

 

I was not a regular follower of Will and Grace, and I missed the Finale. The two children met in college. The first was Grace's child from Leo. Was the second adopted by Will and his partner?

[guptasa1]

You know, I could *never* get into this show for some reason. I didn't try too hard or anything, and I did see a bit of the finale just because it was the finale. But...nyeh...I dunno. Just not for me for some reason.

[Guest zipperzone]

I think the series had it's funny moments, but not enough to make it a "must watch" for me.

 

Never could stand Grace's character - whining Jewish bitch (as if we don't have enough of them)

 

Thought Will's body was sexy - in a kind of lean way - but Eric McCormack's determination to insist in every interview that he was straight, pissed me off big time. God forbid that we might think he sucks cock!

 

The funniest character was Karen, but I usually found the voice she used, really hard to hear (as in understand what she was saying)

 

Will I miss it? - I guess. Will I live without it? - Yup.

Do you care? Propably not - but that's life!

[ValleyDwellerNorth]

RE: Will & Grace: It's Over

 

>I was utterly ASTOUNDED at the singing scene. Megan Mullaly,

>who actually is a pretty good singer, sang the whole thing in

>"Karen" voice and sounded un-fucking-believable. She showed a

>side of her talent I hadn't seen before.

 

That was an awesome scene indeed. It was nice to see that age calmed "Jack" down and that those two realized they were meant to live with one another. And yes, "Karen's" interpretation of the song was wonderful.

[ValleyDwellerNorth]

RE: Will & Grace: It's Over

 

>I was not a regular follower of Will and Grace, and I missed

>the Finale. The two children met in college. The first was

>Grace's child from Leo. Was the second adopted by Will and his

>partner?

 

Will had that baby with his own "stuff" with a surrogate mom. So Will was the bio daddy and Vince was the other daddy.

[ValleyDwellerNorth]

>Episodes" with some Gay Content! Now All these American Idol

>and whatever Programs will definitely Bury Sitcoms! At least

>for the forseeable future.

 

It is really sad now that there is no "Book of Daniel" either. Besides Martha Stewart there is nothing gay on TV anymore.

[ValleyDwellerNorth]

>I understand Megan's next gig is a talk show. Yuck!

 

Read all about it:

 

http://people.aol.com/people/articles/0,19736,1067452,00.html

[Guest 8mile]

Why would it piss you off Eric kept putting it out there that he was straight? It's not like he saw anything wrong with it, he played a gay man on television. Openly gay actors to it also, look at the ones from queer as folk who continue to confirm they are gay in every interview.

 

The finale was pretty alright, but didn't top the episode before..."Whatever Happen to Baby Gin" guest starring Bernadette Peters and Josh Lucas. It was a classic laugh out loud Will and Grace and the reason this show was so successful.

 

People have to realize sitcoms are all about exploiting stereotypes. That is what makes them funny. Stop taking them so seriously.

 

As Usual

Zachary

[stripfan]

I thought is sucked. It was a bad rip off of Six Feet Under and not funny. This column from the Washington Blade sums up my feelings exactly:

 

A grace-less gay ending

 

 

The series finale of NBC's groundbreaking gay sitcom "Will & Grace" on Thursday, May 18, was such a piece of crap that it has ruined the memory of the comedy forever. While the one-hour retrospective before the show buttered viewers up with fond memories of when the show was one of the most dependably funny on network television, the one-hour final episode did nothing to cement that legacy in viewers minds. P.S., this article is going to give away the plot of the episode, so if you have it on TiVo and haven't watched it yet don't waste your time and TiVo memory space and just keep reading.

 

 

 

The cast of NBC's 'Will & Grace,' — Sean Hayes (left), Debra Messing, Eric McCormack and Megan Mullally — went out with a whimper for the show's final episode. (Photo courtesy of NBC)

The problem with the episode is exemplified in the rendition of "Unforgettable" that Karen (Megan Mullally) and Jack (Sean Hayes) sang at the end of the show. I kept waiting for the zany duo to change the lyrics or the tune or bust into a Cher cover to make it into a joke, but the joke never came. They just sung the song. And they did it with non-ironic sincerity. It's like they forgot the second syllable in sitcom is an abbreviation of comedy.

 

While the dream sequence that kicked the hour off wasn't too bad — Grace (Debra Messing) in that track suit was a fabulous sight — the earnestness of the rest of the hour was horrible. Instead of giving the gang of four one more zany adventure and tying up the loose ends from the season, show creators Max Mutchnick and David Kohan decided to map out the rest of the character's lives until they died (probably of boredom, like many viewers did during the telecast).

 

And that's where the horrible flash forwards and coincidental plot developments come in. Skip ahead two years, Will (Eric McCormack) and Grace are fighting. Forward again, they've reconciled and over each other. Get into the time machine again and Grace's daughter meets Will's son (birthed from a surrogate, natch) in college the same way the dynamic duo met and then get married, in turn reuniting the fag with his hag after decades of being out of touch. How fucking lame!

 

Then Karen inexplicably loses her money and Jack has to do it with Beverly Leslie (gay actor Leslie Jordan) to keep the freeloading duo afloat. Where did that come from and why was it necessary?

 

The wonderful gay series "Six Feet Under" used a similar tactic when it ended after five seasons last summer. Claire (Lauren Ambrose) leaves her family behind and imagines who each of the characters on the show will die. Not only did it fit in perfectly with the trope that began each episode of the series, but was in turns funny, heart-breaking and sublimely beautiful. It was the most perfectly satisfying ending for the beloved show.

 

In fact, it was just the opposite of the "Will & Grace" finale, which was such a self-serious mess, that it's hard to remember why audiences tuned into it in the first place.

 

 

 

Posted by Brian Moylan, Features Editor for the Washington Blade| May. 19 at 4:16 PM | [email protected]

 

stripfan

[Guest zipperzone]

>Why would it piss you off Eric kept putting it out there that

>he was straight? It's not like he saw anything wrong with it,

>he played a gay man on television.

 

You're quite right - he DID play a gay man on TV - for a very healthy paycheck which by the time the series ended, had escalated to the point where he probably has enought $$$ in the bank for him to retire, should he wish to do so. So that was OK with him because he benefited financially.

 

But, God forbid that anyone out there in TV land might actually think he WAS gay. Oh the shame of that would be just too much to bear. So we will repeat it over and over again - I AM NOT GAY, I'M STRAIGHT. That is why it pissed me off.

 

On the bright side, at least he didn't threaten to sue everybody for 10 million $$$ if they dared to wonder if he was, like some other sofa jumping clutz who shall remain nameless.

[JT Brooklyn]

Strip..Totally Agree with ALL said. That Last Episode was pure Junk!

"Thank The Gods" this one has come to an End...Except of course for the endless reruns, for the Next 20 Year's... :P

[Guest 8mile]

Like I said. It was no better than the actors who play straight or gay characters and pronounce they are gay to the press. GOD forbid anyone out there in TV land might think they ARE straight.

 

Yes he made a hefty paycheck as the series grew popular. But there was a time during pilot season and auditioning for the role where he didn't make anything and it wasn't even a sure thing the show was going to get picked up. I highly doubt the question "You're playing a gay character on TV are you really gay in real life?" wasn't asked before the viewers on the other side of the camera saw his answer "I'm not gay, I'm straight" thus I don't believe he continuously volunteered the information.

[+ deej]

>I thought is sucked. It was a bad rip off of Six Feet Under

>and not funny.

 

It had its moments, but it ripped off several things. A character getting blown off the balcony was used in "Las Vegas" earlier this season when they ran several episodes that out-camped "Passions". (The difference is *they* were funny. LOL)

 

I re-watched this just to see if I was suffering first-impression-itis, or maybe just expecting too much. My first impression stands.

[SAdler]

"Do what any respectable woman would do in the same situation ... point your heels towards Jesus and think of handbags."

 

I believe that line will go down in history for me. I'm happy that Beverly Leslie had such a role in the finale, it wouldn't have been the same without her.

 

I think it's sad to be so overly critical of the finale and I think that no matter what would have been done somebody would bitch. I'd have to say a lot of the aggression against a show finale(especially when you've loyally watched it and loved it has to do with it ending. You don't want it to end and for it to really be over so no matter what get's done it's never enough.

 

Having a couple favorites of mine end over the past year I kind of realized that with Will and Grace. I was mad not because any part of it really sucked but because I knew there wouldn't be a next episode. I'll get a lot of boos for this but I'm afraid to watch the end of Charmed too to find out what kind of horrible things they did to the characters. In the end, I think the only good ending for a series would be to kill everyone off that way we're not worried about what we're going to be missing from their lives.

 

That said, I really enjoyed the end of Roseanne because of the whole dream thing. I mean, it really was out of left field but it kind of had closure. You knew where everyone was and that nothing exciting was really going to happen again. For me, I enjoyed Will and Grace's end a lot because they went so far into the future and we hanve an idea where the story goes. It's closure, what else can I say?

[SAdler]

"Do what any respectable woman would do in the same situation ... point your heels towards Jesus and think of handbags."

 

I believe that line will go down in history for me. I'm happy that Beverly Leslie had such a role in the finale, it wouldn't have been the same without her.

 

I think it's sad to be so overly critical of the finale and I think that no matter what would have been done somebody would bitch. I'd have to say a lot of the aggression against a show finale(especially when you've loyally watched it and loved it has to do with it ending. You don't want it to end and for it to really be over so no matter what get's done it's never enough.

 

Having a couple favorites of mine end over the past year I kind of realized that with Will and Grace. I was mad not because any part of it really sucked but because I knew there wouldn't be a next episode. I'll get a lot of boos for this but I'm afraid to watch the end of Charmed too to find out what kind of horrible things they did to the characters. In the end, I think the only good ending for a series would be to kill everyone off that way we're not worried about what we're going to be missing from their lives.

 

That said, I really enjoyed the end of Roseanne because of the whole dream thing. I mean, it really was out of left field but it kind of had closure. You knew where everyone was and that nothing exciting was really going to happen again. For me, I enjoyed Will and Grace's end a lot because they went so far into the future and we hanve an idea where the story goes. It's closure, what else can I say?

[+ deej]

>I'd have to say a lot of the aggression against a show finale

>(especially when you've loyally watched it and loved it has to do with

>it ending.

 

On the other hand, the finale may have just stunk.

 

I can't say I was particularly "loyal" to the show. I watched sporadically, and I'm ambivalent about it being over. Sometimes it was hilarious, often it was humdrum. The ending was more of the latter.

 

I agree about that line from Karen, though.

[+ deej]

>I'd have to say a lot of the aggression against a show finale

>(especially when you've loyally watched it and loved it has to do with

>it ending.

 

On the other hand, the finale may have just stunk.

 

I can't say I was particularly "loyal" to the show. I watched sporadically, and I'm ambivalent about it being over. Sometimes it was hilarious, often it was humdrum. The ending was more of the latter.

 

I agree about that line from Karen, though.

[RockHard]

RE: Will & Grace: It's Over...thank goodness.

 

Karen's line, "Do what any respectable woman would do in the same situation ... point your heels towards Jesus and think of handbags," is what made the show WILL AND GRACE great! I dare anyone to name one other network sitcom that offered lines like that one, let alone within a gay-concept show.

 

There are too many statements on this thread that are calling me to respond but I have to resist, otherwise, I'll be writing all day.

 

However, I will say:

 

I think the reason WILL AND GRACE garnered such vitriolic reaction from many gay men is because many gay men desire perfection in almost everything "gay:" especially their "gay" entertainment. That's the way our genes seem to be wired.

 

WILL AND GRACE had its brilliant moments but, unfortunately, the brilliant moments weren't consistent enough and the story lines often went from ridiculous, to wacky, to insanely stupid. Even though the show was never based in any kind of believable reality, it often tipped so far off the edge of tolerable surreal it became difficult to watch and enjoy. I too often found myself yelling at the TV, "ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME WITH THIS SHIT!," and changed the channel. The past couple of years I stopped watching.

 

I could go on about the lonely success of being Hollywood's token gay-partnered creators. I never envied their stress. I could also go on about NBC taking on the country's conservative leanings and objections, slapping them in prime-time (almost ages ago) with a flamboyantly gay, highly-financed show. But, alas, I'll just spare myself any lengthy diatribe and end this by saying:

 

1 - When WILL AND GRACE got it right it was FABULOUS.

2 - All four stars had four-star chemistry, the envy of every top-level casting director.

3 - Megan Mullally's moment at the piano demonstrated yet another aspect of this brilliantly talented woman. Too bad Sean Hayes' vocal styling couldn't compare and actually got in the way of my enjoyment of Ms. Mullally.

4 - How about that six-year old wedge-haircut of Harry's? I can' t believe the queens didn't catch that. I hear Dorothy Hamill is suing. :-)

5 - Is it me or does Harry Connick Jr. look really ugly at certain angles? He's starting to look like Barry Manilow. Yikes!

6 - Megan Mullally is making a big mistake resorting to talk-show-shit-chat fest. I've seen many TV interviews with her as guest and she's completely boring, the EXACT opposite of Karen. She's a great actress and a great singer but I predict she will suck as a talk show host. Just my opinion, of course.