The Waiting Room

[+ Lucky]

Today I drove 120 miles to see a doctor for what was supposed to be a quick follow-up appointment. Even though he clearly had no patients waitng, he kept me waiting 30 minutes while he made phone calls. When I made the appointment, I was clear that I chose the time so I could return home before rush-hour traffic would double my driving time.

 

Finally, I was taken back to the exam room, where I waited some more. Finally, I left, without seeing the doctor. Of course, when I got home the doctor had called apologizing and asking me to reschedule. My thought is to send him a bill for my time and mileage...like $500.

 

Is it a lost cause? Should I just chalk it up? If he didn't pay I would take him to small claims court...really! The gas alone is fifty bucks.

[Cooper]

Lucky, It sounds like you could use a vacation. Any weekend plans? If so, I hope there are no delays at the airport. :-)

[Guest empire]

Maybe you should check with our resident escort attorney Scott Adler to see what he would advise.

[VaHawk]

IMO, lost cause! Seems like all doctors do that. And why blame the doctor, as it is the office staff that books the appointments and times?

 

I think we can all identify with what you are saying, as we've all been there and done that.

 

Really, when all is said and done, what choice do you have, but to wait? And what could possibly be accomplished from leaving without seeing the doctor, except for the momentary, fleeting satisfaction of "making a statement"? I can't see how that would hurt anyone but the patient, as I'm fairly sure that the insurance company would have to pay for the appointment, and you, your part of the office visit fee.

 

Many times it isn't the doctor's fault, as anything could cause the appointment with the patient scheduled before you to go longer than scheduled.

 

IMO, that is not a bad thing, per se, as I want my doctor to spend enough time with me going over everything and answering any questions that I have, especially when it costs $200 or more per visit.

 

BUT, I will admit that my patience level is higher with my regular doctor, more than it would be with a doctor that I'm seeing for the first time. Not saying that is a fair policy, just that it is the way I am.

 

Now I'll admit that the fact that my regular doctor is young, handsome and gay, adds to my patience level! :7

 

I love my regular doctor, for all of those reasons, but mainly for the fact that he takes time to discuss everything with me, chat with me, and get to know me for a person and not a statistic, even if that means the following appointment has to wait a few minutes!

 

That makes him, imo, a real doctor, one who wants to get to know more about their patients than numbers and graph lines on a chart.Which is why I was not the least upset at the fact that it was almost 2 hours after my scheduled appointment, before I got to interact with him, the last time I visited.

[+ Lucky]

Come to think of it, my unwillingness to wait probably reveals the New Yorker in me. Hmm, maybe a trip to the Big Apple would be just the ticket. Do you think you could arrange for me to take a meeting with Rock Hard? Nah, I would rather get rock hard at the Club 20!

[+ Lucky]

Well, I usually have excellent relations with my doctor. Yet there are so many docs with "doctoritis" that think their time is so much more valuable. In this case, I would have stayed if I thought he was going to do anything other than tell me I was fine, but I felt that I was there more for perfunctory reasons.

 

If I did intend to cause him grief, I would certainly enlist Mr. Adler's legal services. What better way to make someone pay? hehehe

[jackhammer91406]

ROTFLMAO

[+ deej]

30 minutes is nothing, particularly if he's dealing with a patient emergency or a batch of pharmacy calls to approve prescription refills. I'd like to think one of my emergencies might get his attention, too, and I'm sure glad when my prescriptions get refilled without delay.

 

I'm dealing (with major hesitation) with a Dr. that left me waiting in his exam room for 2.5 hours. He wasn't even in the office. His staff just parked me there.

 

Contrast that with another doctor's office where they called me before I'd even got in the car and told me the doctor was stuck in the hospital and asked to reschedule.

 

Someone said to blame the staff, but that's wrong. They're just following orders.

 

The doctor runs a respectful practice or he doesn't. If you have a "doesn't", find another.

[+ Lucky]

He was making a PHONE CALL not seeing patients! The last patient was already gone and he just decided I wasn't more important than his phone call. Thus the wait.

[VaHawk]

>He was making a PHONE CALL not seeing patients! The last

>patient was already gone and he just decided I wasn't more

>important than his phone call. Thus the wait.

 

So what? Perhaps he was ON-CALL and returning a page?

 

My doctor, did the same thing, in the middle of my session, after I waited almost 2 hrs after my appointment time.

 

Was it irritating? Sure it was, but wtf???, that's life! Maybe you were just there for a routine followup (as you stated earlier???), as was I, and just MAYBE he/she was being paged for an emergency consultation/followup, and as such, set the correct priorites? :o

 

Sheesh, LIGHTEN UP!, as it is not a tragedy nor anything remotely worthy of such anger and angst.

 

But, if you truly feel that it is, then post it in Rants&Raves on CL, as such a TRITE bitching meets all the minimal criteria necessary to generate the "love" response postings, that you crave????

[+ deej]

>He was making a PHONE CALL not seeing patients! The last

>patient was already gone and he just decided I wasn't more

>important than his phone call. Thus the wait.

 

So what was the phone call about? Was it about another patient?

 

God forbid he should inconvenience you by taking a call that's important.

 

I've seen (and heard) my doctor delayed by phone calls. And I've seen my doctor pick up the phone to call another doctor (on my behalf) while he's with me.

 

A phone call, alone, isn't enough to villify him pal. You need to provide details to make your analogy work.

[Guest]

I work in a large office with dozens of doctors. In my experience, doctors who run behind tend to be better doctors than those who run on time. A number of reasons could account for this observation: (1) doctors who are more thorough run later, (2) doctors who spend more time explaining the patients' health problems and options will also run later, (3) doctors who are more popular and therefore have a lower no-show rate will run later, and (4) better doctors will have more complicated patients referred to them (by other doctors as well as by patients). Do you think you'll get a better meal at the restaurant with the long line of people on the waiting list, or at the restaurant with many empty tables where you can be seated right away?

Unless your doctor violated privacy rules, you do not know why he was on the phone. He could have been taking care of a medical emergency, or arranging care for a patient with a business that might have been closed by the time he finished seeing you. Of course, he could have just been rude.

Since there was no expressed or implied agreement that he pay you for your time, I doubt you have recourse to collect money from him any more than you can sue Disneyland for the time you spend waiting in line to get onto Space Mountain. Unless the doctor is a psychiatrist, you are not buying a specific time slot.

Due to the uncertain nature of medical care (visits for any given patient can last from 5 to 45 minutes, especially in primary care), as a patient I always allow for lots of time for the visit, and don't get upset if the doctor is late. I remember once in training a patient chewing out a surgeon for being late--after the surgeon rushed from the OR to his office after taking care of a critical patient. If you think your doctor is simply rude, by all means switch doctors. There are plenty of good doctors out there. But bolting out is just a little childish, to be frank.

[Flower]

>.... But bolting out is just a

>little childish, to be frank.

 

Well, I disagree and have to take Lucky's side--I've done the same thing on more than one occasion and when the doctor or receptionist has called to rebook or find out what the problem was, I tell them that my time is just as important to me as the doctor's is to him--and only rebook if they can get me in when they say they can. Office staff finds this type of heresy offensive and you can hear the gasps, but it seems to have solved the problem. Normally, when I make an appointment, I tell the receptionist I want the first appointment in the morning, but that I want to get in when I'm scheduled. Obviously, if everyone did this there'd not be enough first of the AM appointments, but most people, even here on this thread are way too willing to give the doc a pass for packing them in.

 

Experienced doctors know how far apart to book patients as does their office staff(emergencies excepted). They know how to book them to give plenty of time to patients and still keep their appointments or how to book them to maximize their profit. There are office management classes on the subject in fact! However, today, as it's been for years, the docs cram as many of us in as they can into the waiting room so they don't lose billable time if a patient cancels--afterall, THIS IS A BUSINESS--a money making venture, and all of this talk on this thread about how important the doctors' time is and how "maybe the phone call was a life saving enterprise" is simply giving too much credence to a usually mundane practice. Certainly, you as an ER doc (if you still do that), have one of the most exciting and truly life saving positons in the medical field, and my hat's off to ya, but your average primary care doctor such as an internist has little to offer in the way of excuses for being late other than over booking--similar to the airlines :+

[edjames]

First, I like to think of myself as a "Customer" or "Client" of the doctor and his business. Doctors are running a business and should act like it.

Leaving you waiting is not a good business practice. I have a rule. If I am kept waiting more than 30 minutes, I let them know about.

We book appointments that are mutually agreeable to both the doctor's and the customer's schedule, therefore we should both live up to our obligation to be on time.

I can understand when the doctor has an emergency or is running behind schedule but his office has an obligation to let people know when they arrive that they will have a waiting time.

I made an appointmnet to see a new doctor here in NYC a few years back and when I walked into the office I was appalled that there were at least 25 people in the waiting room. I waited for over an hour and all that happenned was that more and more people showed up for their appointments. I walked out. Not one person behind the desk made any announcement or asked if anyone would like to reschedule. It was appalling.

I'm all for sending the doctor a bill for "time and travel." It lets them know they're not running an efficient office operation. Customer satisfaction should be part of the experience, after all we are trusting this individual with our health and well-being.

[Samai139]

First, an observation/question: I can understand and sympathize with a "short" wait in the Dr's office--30 minutes is not unreasonable, but anything beyond that either needs an explanation or a re-scheduling. I apply this to ALL professional appointments--dentist, lawyer, financial advisor, school principal, teacher. etc. My question? What would the reaction be if the client/customer/patient was late---and probably not as much as 30 minutes? I suspect you would not be seen, but would be billed.

Finally, my HMO periodically sends me questionnaires to fill out for not only my regular MD but also any specialists I see. I have taken full advantage of the forms---praising those MDs who do not make me wait, answer my questions, are polite, thorough, etc. I have also noticed a difference in the MD's office when I complained about their overcrowded waiting rooms and the waiting---things changed.

MDs and their office staffs do pay attention when complaints are lodged through channels which are important to them. Try it.

[+ Axiom2001]

Flower, welcome back; it's been quite a while that I have seen the green print and that adorable avatar. But to the response at large. I definitely side with Lucky; get legal advice and proceed if the advice is affirmative.

 

Some time ago I had a long wait in my neurosurgeon's office; the place had a few patients in it, but my wait lingered and lingered. I informed the desk folks that I'd waited much too long, past my appointment time and that I would be leaving. As I exited-- the doctor came out and beckoned me back into his office and addressed my necessary and important concern. (He was a prominent surgeon and did not have to rely on my money for his survival or livelihood.)

 

If many more patients would be assertive and demand to be treated more professionally re: doctor/patient relations, perhaps the doctors would operate a different type of practice regarding the appointments and the time many patients have to wait.

[+ newatthis]

I've been pretty lucky in this regard, partly because I almost always manage to get the first appointment of the day, but mainly because over the years I've assembled a stable of doctors with great office managers who run their practices very efficiently.

 

In one instance, I was so impressed with the efficiency, courtesy, and promptness of a very busy orthopedic surgeon and his staff that I sought out the office manager to express my appreciation. (This wasn't just a matter of being on time -- it included directions to the office, exactly what paperwork to bring along, and followup in writing well in advance of my appointment in case I forgot.)

 

My primary care physician is amazing -- part of a large practice with a huge patient load, yet rarely has kept me waiting as much as 10 minutes when I have an appointment. And when I'm with him, he makes me feel like he has infinite time for me and my concerns -- and still stays on schedule.

 

With doctors who are likely to be delayed by emergencies (or in the past when not all my doctors were so user-friendly), I call ahead and ask whether they'll be able to take me on time (and if not, how much later I should come in). I usually get an honest response (and when I don't, I drop the doctor).

[+ Tom Isern]

There is the very real possibility that your doctor was on the phone dealing with very pressing concerns: pharmacists calling to confirm prescriptions, other patients with pressing issues, an emergency of some kind, phoning in a prescription or two, etc. Sometimes they prioritize the urgent over the important--it's part of their job.

 

But I've been there and have shared in your frustration. I go prepared to be frustrated--it's less painful that way. Be sure to have a book. A packed lunch. A Diet Coke. I also book my appointments early in the morning--like flying, you're less likely to be delayed if there aren't fifty planes waiting to take off in front of yours. Best way to avoid frustration is to manage it in advance.

 

Sorry if I sound glib, your complaint is no doubt justified.

[Guest]

Actually, I'm an FP, not an ER doc. Unfortunately, your theory doesn't work out in practice for a number of reasons. The first and most obvious reason is that doctors are usually contractually prevented from charging no-shows the amount which they would have made had the patient shown up. I'm sure that if you received a bill for $150 for not showing up, you wouldn't bolt out. In fact, I'm sure that most doctors would have a near-100% show-up rate and could therefore plan their schedules perfectly. (On the other hand, I'm suspect that if a lawyer's client didn't show up for a half-hour appointment, he'd be charged the full time).

Another reason is that even within the "simple" office environment, it is usually completely impossible to predict how long each visit will take. Well, perhaps for a subspecialist such as a dermatologist, the doctor can feel fairly confident about the length of time an appointment will take. If a derm patient says "By the way, doc, I've been seeing blood in my urine," the dermatologist (or cardiologist) will simply say "I'm sorry, but that's not my area of expertise."

In a family practice environment, a visit may take 5 minutes if it's a swimmer's ear, or well over half an hour for someone who recently left the hospital after bypass surgery with heart failiure, diabetes, and kidney failiure. Even if you had a registered nurse in charge of making appointments (which clearly isn't practical), you could still not predict the length of appointments, because often what sounds simple "just a follow-up" is actually a "train wreck."

Of course, when after spending 40 minutes with a "train wreck," he says "By the way doc, my erections ain't what they used to be," I can and usally will respond by saying "I'm sorry, but I have other patients and cannot pay proper attention to that problem at this time. Please make another appointment to discuss that." Other problems, however, such as chest pain, simply must be attended to thoroughly before the patient leaves.

If your experience of going to the doctor only involves simple problems, you can consider yourself lucky. Unfortunately, it is the nature of medical care that it is unpredictable. In the law, you have lots of time to research the facts, and you probably know how a deposition is going to go (or testimony after you've already taken that person's deposition). Even so, I'd be surprised if you can always tell with great precision how long a deposition will last. What if jurors or prospective jurors called for jury duty left after an hour or so because "their time is just as valuable as the judges' and lawyers'"?

You know what? When I report for jury duty or go to my FP's office, I take a book because I know I might (or might not) have to wait a while. There are tons of things we have to do in which we have to "hurry up and wait." I'm sure you can think of plenty of examples: catching a plane, going on a hot air balloon ride, going scuba diving, dealing with multiple government agencies (DMV, etc.). Think of your visit to most doctors as one of them (of course, some specialties, such as psychiatrists or dermatologists have more predictable schedules).

[Guest]

>I can understand when the doctor has an emergency or is

>running behind schedule but his office has an obligation to

>let people know when they arrive that they will have a waiting

>time.

 

That I will agree on. Often doctors can't help but run late. However, there's no excuse for not informing patients of the delay (even when it's rather obvious by the paramedics bringing a patient on a guerney through the waiting room). I don't think it's exactly an obligation to keep the patients informed, but it's rude and unnecessary not to (and bad business practice).

[JamesK840]

HMO waiting game...

 

Maybe it's just that I've got a crappy HMO, but I feel lucky to finally have an appointment anymore.

 

It's at least two weeks to see my GP (*maybe* only one if I were in pain...), then there's a week or two for results, *if* I'm lucky the follow-up is already scheduled for about the same time, then there's the inevitable referral to a specialist, 4+ weeks to even get in to see him, he orders some more tests, another month or so later for follow-up after he gets the results... With every one of these visits requiring me to take time off work because doctors only seem to work 9-5 M-F...

 

I swear there are times it feels like the HMO's main purpose is to play a waiting game so the patient has time to either get better on their own or die before they actually get to use any services. I'm sorry if anybody finds that last bit offensive, but as prices rise unrestrained I understand the purpose of HMOs less and less.

 

So I can't imagine walking out or doing anything but sitting there patiently and occasionally calling work to let them know I'll be coming in even later then planned.

[+ deej]

RE: HMO waiting game...

 

Isn't "crappy HMO" from the department of redundancy department? :9

 

I empathise. Every year when enrollment time comes around, several of the plans I'm eligible for are HMO which are quite a bit cheaper (to me) than the PPO I've been in all along. But I look at what I can expect and think "No way!". (And then I visit my Dr. and observe the sign saying "sorry, but we no longer accept HMO insurance".)

 

HMO actually started as a good idea, but the idea has been so watered down over the years they're really to be avoided if at all possible. They're better than nothing, mind you! But definitely not the optimal healthcare plan.

[Epigonos]

RE: HMO waiting game...

 

I'm with you Lucky of this one. One of the main reasons I refuse to belong to an HMO is this very one. I have changed doctors because some simply found it impossible to stay on a schedule or they scheduled every fifteen minutes instead of every thirty. Money!!! Money!!! Money!!

I taught school for over thirty years and many of my students were children of doctors. More than a few of these doctors became extremely irate when they arrived for an appointment with me thirty minutes or more late and learned that I had already left. They, of course, had not bothered to make a telephone call saying they would be late. One even went so far as to inform me that as a "public servant" I was required to wait till he arrived regardless of how late he was. Many doctors are very aware of how valuable their time is BUT don't believe that that of anybody else is.

I have reams of incredible doctor stories. Now I realize that this is a generalization but as a group I found them to be first class pain in the asses

[Guest zipperzone]

RE: HMO waiting game...

 

>Many

>doctors are very aware of how valuable their time is BUT don't

>believe that that of anybody else is.

 

Well of course, silly. After all they are "DOCTORS" and you're just a lowly person. We all must get our priorities straight when in the presence of such exalted creatures.

 

>I have reams of incredible doctor stories. Now I realize that

>this is a generalization but as a group I found them to be

>first class pain in the asses.

 

You're right - no one needs the services of a proctologist more than they do!

[Barry]

RE: HMO waiting game...

 

Yes the original concept of HMO's made sense (on paper). You had to stick with a specific physician because he was paid a fixed monthly fee for each HMO patient. He would get that payment whether he saw you or not. In concept the financial incentive was to keep you well since he would be paid the same whether you visited his office or not. The monthly payment was not generous so physicians had to accept a fairly high number of HMO patient's in order to make anything. The low cost to patient's actually led to many visiting more often for any concern. You can see where this all eventually ended up.

 

Personally I would love to have the option of an HMO right now. My employer used to offer both PPO and HMO. Then they cut back to just HMO. This year they dropped everything accept a supplimental policy making basic health coverage solely the responsibility of their employees. I fear we will be seeing more of this from employers as time goes on. I can actually say I'm looking forward to having Medicare in 9 years since even that would be more coverage than is available to me now. Pretty sad, isn't it?

 

Barry