Some suicides are more incomprehensible...

[Kenny]

I was hitherto unaware that there was a form of privilege in having good mental health.

Yes, one learns the darnedest things here. I didn’t know, for instance, that if you have leukemia or multiple sclerosis, it’s your own damn fault. Same with mental illness. Just stop it. Be best.

[mike carey]

I didn’t know, for instance, that if you have leukemia or multiple sclerosis, it’s your own damn fault.

Indeed, Gov Scott has so ordained. No preëxisting condition coverage for you!

[mike carey]

I didn’t know, for instance, that if you have leukemia or multiple sclerosis, it’s your own damn fault.

Indeed, Gov Scott has so ordained. No preëxisting condition coverage for you!

[marylander1940]

My sister and brother both committed suicide. My mother is now 90 and is not over it yet. I doubt she ever will.

 

It's an easy way to escape from those who are suffering but the ones who are left behind (old or young) can never get over it.

[marylander1940]

My sister and brother both committed suicide. My mother is now 90 and is not over it yet. I doubt she ever will.

 

It's an easy way to escape from those who are suffering but the ones who are left behind (old or young) can never get over it.

[Zapped]

It's an easy way to escape from those who are suffering but the ones who are left behind (old or young) can never get over it.

 

I'll say again what I said previously.

 

Sure, suicide, especially as we look at it from a non-suicidal perspective, is an "easy way to escape." But to the irrational, delusional person taking their own life, it probably looks less like escape and more like a gift. This is probably hard to imagine if you haven't been there yourself.

 

For me, and from what I've read about others who have looked into this deeply, the experience was that I was problem for the others in my life. Like John Dean's phrase "a cancer on the presidency," I felt I was a cancer on the life of my family. I thought I'd be doing them a favor and that they'd be relieved. I thought they'd be glad to be rid of me, not overwhelmed with grief, anger, and self-recrimination. To me, I was a malignant tumor that should be cut out from the body of my family.

 

My dad had a cousin who when she was diagnosed with a condition that would eventually cause her to lose the use of her legs killed herself. We were so mystified and upset. I now understand (or at least project) that she didn't want to be a burden to her friends and family.

 

Now that I've said this over and over and gotten myself clear on it, the thing I'm interested in is how we as a society open up conversation about suicide, and keep it going, so that people for whom suicide does look like a gift to others can talk about it without fear. When I was seriously considering it, I didn't want to tell anyone because I was afraid I'd be committed.

 

A few weeks ago, some financial issues were really weighing on me. I'm retiring from a job at the end of this month and for the next couple of weeks there's a lot of life insurance that comes with the job. One voice in me was saying my husband and kids would be better off if I died and they each got a big chunk of money.

 

The more I kept those thoughts secret, the more intense they became. Finally I told my husband that a good bit of this insurance was going away, that I was frustrated that I hadn't generated new income streams in the way I'd wanted, and asked him if he'd rather have me or this particular amount of money. He was quite quick to assure me that he'd rather have us broke (which won't be the case) and me alive than me dead and him with enough to restart his life.

 

Well, then the whole thing lifted. Once I spoke it out loud, the nightmare ended. I'd recently been at the visitation and service for a colleague who killed himself, and I'd seen the tragic mess he'd left behind and the extraordinary grief. So I was quite in touch with the fact that it would probably be devastating to my family. Which wasn't the case 20 years ago or so when I thought I'd be giving them a gift and they would be glad to be rid of me.

 

Many of us don't feel like we can tell anyone when we're having suicidal thoughts. How do we give people the space to tell others what's going on?

[marylander1940]

I'll say again what I said previously.

 

Sure, suicide, especially as we look at it from a non-suicidal perspective, is an "easy way to escape." But to the irrational, delusional person taking their own life, it probably looks less like escape and more like a gift. This is probably hard to imagine if you haven't been there yourself.

 

For me, and from what I've read about others who have looked into this deeply, the experience was that I was problem for the others in my life. Like John Dean's phrase "a cancer on the presidency," I felt I was a cancer on the life of my family. I thought I'd be doing them a favor and that they'd be relieved. I thought they'd be glad to be rid of me, not overwhelmed with grief, anger, and self-recrimination. To me, I was a malignant tumor that should be cut out from the body of my family.

 

My dad had a cousin who when she was diagnosed with a condition that would eventually cause her to lose the use of her legs killed herself. We were so mystified and upset. I now understand (or at least project) that she didn't want to be a burden to her friends and family.

 

Now that I've said this over and over and gotten myself clear on it, the thing I'm interested in is how we as a society open up conversation about suicide, and keep it going, so that people for whom suicide does look like a gift to others can talk about it without fear. When I was seriously considering it, I didn't want to tell anyone because I was afraid I'd be committed.

 

A few weeks ago, some financial issues were really weighing on me. I'm retiring from a job at the end of this month and for the next couple of weeks there's a lot of life insurance that comes with the job. One voice in me was saying my husband and kids would be better off if I died and they each got a big chunk of money.

 

The more I kept those thoughts secret, the more intense they became. Finally I told my husband that a good bit of this insurance was going away, that I was frustrated that I hadn't generated new income streams in the way I'd wanted, and asked him if he'd rather have me or this particular amount of money. He was quite quick to assure me that he'd rather have us broke (which won't be the case) and me alive than me dead and him with enough to restart his life.

 

Well, then the whole thing lifted. Once I spoke it out loud, the nightmare ended. I'd recently been at the visitation and service for a colleague who killed himself, and I'd seen the tragic mess he'd left behind and the extraordinary grief. So I was quite in touch with the fact that it would probably be devastating to my family. Which wasn't the case 20 years ago or so when I thought I'd be giving them a gift and they would be glad to be rid of me.

 

Many of us don't feel like we can tell anyone when we're having suicidal thoughts. How do we give people the space to tell others what's going on?

 

I don't know why you quoted me, but thanks for sharing.

 

I knew this subject happened more often among young gay men but I'm surprised about all the personal stories of folks on here who thought about suicide.

[Guest]

Kate Spade's husband reportedly wanted a divorce, while she wanted the marriage to continue. (He denies this now, but he had been shopping around for a 1 bedroom.) They had already been separated for some time. I wonder if he had just admitted that he'd met someone else.

That makes things even more incomprehensible to me. By committing suicide, the husband would get just about everything without having to even pay estate taxes, wouldn’t he? Unless she had a trust leaving all to her daughter or others? A few years back, a nurse in the place I worked died of an overdose of sleeping pills not long after getting papers requesting a divorce and finding out her husband was with another woman. Her husband and daughter also worked with me. Her dying while still married left the husband with everything including her generous pension and social security benefits. The husband retired soon thereafter. The daughter later told me bitterly how devastated she was to see her stepdad’s new girlfriend driving around on her late mother’s motorcycle.

The daughter believes the death was accidental, though the death certificate lists suicide. It sure made things nice for the husband, intentional or not.

Edited June 14, 2018 by Unicorn

[Guest]

My one suicidal urge was very odd. I was visiting San Francisco and walked the Golden Gate bridge . It was so beautiful, I was having a very hectic day at work and personally and my mind was whirring at 100 mph in every which way.

?

If and when I off myself, I can guarantee that it won’t be a spur of the moment decision. I at least owe my loved ones that. That being said, I live because I enjoy my life. Period. Not because I owe it to others to live. My family doctor once brought up the subject of prostate cancer screening. I told him that if ever I was told I would have to get my prostate removed if I wanted to live, I would reach for my Smith & Wesson. (After spending massive amounts on escorts, which I didn’t tell him).

I suppose I could probably get almost anyone I wanted if I were to offer a ridiculous sum such as $100,000. Why not? You can’t take it with you....

Edited June 15, 2018 by Unicorn

[+ FreshFluff]

That makes things even more incomprehensible to me. By committing suicide, the husband would get just about everything without having to even pay estate taxes, wouldn’t he? Unless she had a trust leaving all to her daughter or others? A few years back, a nurse in the place I worked died of an overdose of sleeping pills not long after getting papers requesting a divorce and finding out her husband was with another woman. Her husband and daughter also worked with me. Her dying while still married left the husband with everything including her generous pension and social security benefits. The husband retired soon thereafter. The daughter later told me bitterly how devastated she was to see her stepdad’s new girlfriend driving around on her late mother’s motorcycle.

The daughter believes the death was accidental, though the death certificate lists suicide. It sure made things nice for the husband, intentional or not.

 

If what I hypothesized is true, she couldn't deal with the pain and humiliation of having her husband leave her for someone else. If she was willing to do this, I doubt money was on her mind at all. He'd likely get half in a divorce anyway.

[twinkboylover28]

More stupidity from a troll.

 

Suicide, except in compassionate end of life situations, is irrational. Expecting rational decisions from a suicide victim is just about as ignorant as it gets. No wonder you hold that view.

 

You can start here: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/free-range-psychology/201806/is-suicide-selfish

 

 

Priceless! Now not only an I "cruel", I'm also a "troll" and "stupid".

 

You must have been fabulous on your high school debate team? You certainly don't sound like a future Jeopardy contestant with your numerous failed attempts to shame and name-call those with whom you disagree with. So classy!!!

 

According to your philosophy, those who correctly believe suicide is selfish somehow simply don't understand the complex issue of suicide as well as you do, as any person who believes suicide is selfish is dismissed as "stupid."

 

How condescending and patronizing! It doesn't surprise me coming from a self-righteous arrogant fool.

 

Wise up!

Edited June 15, 2018 by twinkboylover28

[twinkboylover28]

Tell it to Kim Jong Un, doofus.

 

Classy!

 

Now I'm "cruel," "stupid," a " troll" and a "doofus"!

 

And I'm compared to Kim Jong Un. Too funny!

 

I guess it's all in the way you say it, right bigvalboy?

[twinkboylover28]

It's an easy way to escape from those who are suffering but the ones who are left behind (old or young) can never get over it.

 

Well said.

[marylander1940]

Well said.

 

Thank you but my reply was based on what @LADoug1 said. I'm sure folks who commit suicide (because they hate their lives as they're, depression or mental problems) are also suffering and might think the world/family might be better without them.

[twinkboylover28]

The writer C.S. Lewis famously said that, “I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else.” If we believe this life is all there is, the darkness will blind us to the majesty and beauty of life.

 

Suicide is the tragic, but reasonable response to being confronted by life’s reality with no salve of deeper meaning to bandage the wound. This is why a life without God, no matter how grand, will always leave our hearts unfulfilled.

 

So please, take medication. Talk to your family. Go get treatment. Your life is precious to God and the people around you. It is worth fighting for. But no matter what help those things bring, our hearts only find true peace when they live for the one who created them. I wish my friends Kate and Anthony had felt that peace.

 

So if you don't believe in God and are Athiest....

[Kenny]

Priceless! Now not only an I "cruel", I'm also a "troll" and "stupid".

 

You must have been fabulous on your high school debate team? You certainly don't sound like a future Jeopardy contestant with your numerous failed attempts to shame and name-call those with whom you disagree with. So classy!!!

 

According to your philosophy, those who correctly believe suicide is selfish somehow simply don't understand the complex issue of suicide as well as you do, as any person who believes suicide is selfish is dismissed as "stupid."

 

How condescending and patronizing! It doesn't surprise me coming from a self-righteous arrogant fool.

 

Wise up!

Great reply. Really gets to the heart of the selfishness issue. Good trolling!

[Kenny]

http://thefederalist.com/2018/06/13/ultimately-took-kate-spade-anthony-bourdain-wasnt-mental-illness-something-worse/

 

http://thefederalist.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/1024px-Anthony_Bourdain_005-998x666.jpg

 

 

What Ultimately Took Kate Spade And Anthony Bourdain Wasn’t Mental Illness. It Was Something Worse

 

Let us be intellectually honest about the sorrows of this life. Perhaps then, through a lens of sorrow, we can see the one, eternal hope that renders death not proud.

 

By Caroline D'Agati

June 13, 2018

 

In college, a quote hung on my wall: “Here I am. This is me. Get the h-ll out of the way.” To a nobody from New Jersey who dreamed of bigger things, it was the battle cry of someone who knew his greatest asset was his grit. This kind of person embraced life and was ready to conquer it. That quote was from Anthony Bourdain.

 

Like most fans, I’ve spent the last few days wondering how a man of such fire and tenacity could die so defeated. I loved Bourdain for his zest for life and ability to overcome his demons. His skill at simultaneously getting under someone’s skin and into their hearts showed the world what a New Jersey boy is at his best. He lived life so deeply, yet died so hopeless. That shatters me.

 

These tragedies are an opportunity for us all to take stock of the world around us. Let us be intellectually honest about the sorrows of this life. Perhaps then, through a lens of sorrow, we can see the one, eternal hope that renders death not proud.

 

Yes, Suicide Is About Other People, Too

Since the world’s loss of Bourdain and Kate Spade, the Internet has been ablaze about the cause, effects, and prevention of suicide. Many are quick to object to the observation that suicide is selfish, saying it is instead the result of overwhelming mental illness. Still others have pointed out the surviving children of Spade and Bourdain and how these tragedies will follow them their whole lives.

 

I think it’s cruel to say suicide is selfish, but I also know this: I’m angry at Anthony and Kate. I’m angry for the sake of their children and their loved ones. But I’m also angry for myself. Like millions around the globe, these people brought joy into my life. I’ll always remember how, when I was unemployed, a friend gave me her Kate Spade bag and it lifted my spirits. I’ll remember that my first purchases for my new iPod in college were episodes of “No Reservations.”

 

We loved these people because they helped us see something in the world that brightened the monotony or sadness of our lives. Their curiosity, creativity, and joy gave us a reason to have some, too.

 

To take their own lives was a repudiation of the beauty and joy that they brought to us. They gave us something marvelous then took it back in the most devastating way. Knowing the tragic end of Robin Williams, who can watch “Mrs. Doubtfire” and laugh as she did before? Who can listen to David Foster Wallace

without weeping over his own unheeded advice? And now Tony’s warm humor and Kate’s cheerful creations, too, carry the musty perfume of the grave.

 

Where once we saw the magic and joy of being human, now we can only see the scars. The world’s reaction to these deaths is proof that suicide is never about one person. It stirs humanity because we’re all reminded that the bell, too, tolls for us.

 

Suicide Isn’t Always about Mental Illness

Another coping mechanism we’ve turned to is to blame the deaths on stigmas about mental health. Many believe these deaths were caused by a disease as biologically unstoppable as Parkinson’s or dementia. Still others see them as a deficiency of tangible things like valuable relationships and physical upkeep. Again, I think the truth is somewhere in between.

 

Of course, take medication, go on vacations, quit your horrible job, go to counseling—for heaven’s sake, do whatever you must to preserve your life. But what happens when you are fighting on all of those fronts and death still wins? In a dark night of the soul, there aren’t enough friends, money, or experiences to distract someone from the Big Empty.

 

Every human being must at some time confront the same disease that claimed Anthony, Kate, Robin, and every other person who takes his or her life: meaninglessness. Why are we here and is this life worth living? It’s a sobering thought.

 

Friedrich Nietzsche—another struggler—said that anyone with a “why” to live could endure almost any how. These wealthy, accomplished people had some of the most marvelous “hows” anyone could imagine. Yet none of it could make up for the lack of “why.”

 

There is a reason trauma victims, combat survivors, and celebrities are so vulnerable to suicide. Victims of abuse and witnesses to war are exposed to a depth of humanity that many of us never get to. The lowest lows show us just how depraved and hopeless this world can be.

 

Those with everything are often no different. The highest highs show us that, no matter what we achieve or acquire, the hopelessness doesn’t go away. Both the king and the pauper stare life in the face and see that it’s merely “vanity of vanities, all is vanity.”

 

The Antidote to Meaninglessness

In one sense, I agree with Kate and Tony: they were right to be broken-hearted. This is a broken world that neither they nor you nor I will ever be able to set right. Gunmen will continue to kill. Terrorists will bomb. Disease and poverty will ravage. And in 150 years, mourners, victims, saviors, and perpetrators alike will be equally forgotten. The abyss of time makes no distinctions between the hero and the villain.

 

As Kate, Anthony, Robin, and so many other entertainers show, even giving joy to others, in the end, is not enough. So in the end, why bother? How can we not be defeated when we set our eyes on the brokenness of this world? The answer: to fix our eyes on another world. The writer C.S. Lewis famously said that, “I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else.” If we believe this life is all there is, the darkness will blind us to the majesty and beauty of life.

 

Suicide is the tragic, but reasonable response to being confronted by life’s reality with no salve of deeper meaning to bandage the wound. This is why a life without God, no matter how grand, will always leave our hearts unfulfilled.

 

So please, take medication. Talk to your family. Go get treatment. Your life is precious to God and the people around you. It is worth fighting for. But no matter what help those things bring, our hearts only find true peace when they live for the one who created them. I wish my friends Kate and Anthony had felt that peace.

The Federalist writer seems to be having a crisis of faith in consumerism. She is shocked that buying an expensive handbag or selling one’s attention to a TV show’s advertisers doesn’t bring true happiness.

 

Her solution to this crisis, which is doubling down on faith in a sky-god, doesn’t seem much more promising.

[+ quoththeraven]

That video at the very end just shows one woman's personal viewpoint who had attempted suicide in her life. She doesn't speak for anyone except herself and her belief. I don't understand all the bashing "Bearofdistinction" is receiving on this message board for sharing a very common viewpoint.

 

Like many, I've also had acquaintances commit suicide. I also share the pain of celebrity suicides with the world as well. True we just know their public persona , as the real human being they are in real life is often a different person.

 

Many people naturally view suicide as selfish because of the enormous pain it cases survivors. I don't understand, and struggle to comprehend, why anyone would commit suicide as they would never be able to enjoy anther Taco Bell chicken challupa supreme.

But seriously, the real reason people with enormous wealth and/or celebrity status still opt to comit suicide while the seemingly have no reason, is because there is almost always underlying mental illness of UNTREATED depression often with drug abuse or comorbid illness.

 

I was asking myself the same question: if Anthony Bourdain and Kate Spade had everything ...all the money and fame at their fingertips , what hope does that give the deli-meat slicers at the grocery store making minimum wage? It is a peferctly legit question to ask and shouldn't be shamed on this message board.

 

Anyways, to answer your question, the bottom line answer is most of the time there is pre-existing UNTREATED mental illness that contributes to suicide, even if they have family or children to leave behind..

And flashing that 1-800 number wouldn't have stopped Anthony Bourdain of Kate Spade. "Oh, if they only would've called that 800 number".

Talking to strangers is difficult for some people, suicide hotlines have been known to hang up on someone who needs someone to talk to who isn't intending immediate suicide, and helping someone so depressed that they're suicidal is an ongoing project, which all means that a hotline is not always the solution. But it's just as incorrect to say suicide is due to untreated mental illness or to imply well off and successful people have no reason to be unhappy. That letter Kim Jonghyun wrote that I linked above is directed (though not by name) to his psychiatrist. People don't choose their brain chemistry.

 

This level of ignorance about suicide and mental illness hurts rather than helps people who are depressed and suicidal. If suicide is so selfish then suicidal people have even less reason to reach out and disclose their true feelings. Sorry suicide prevention has to prioritize the emotional needs of the suicidal person, not their friends and family and telling them they're loved when they don't feel lovable and won't believe you isn't an answer.

[marylander1940]

The Federalist writer seems to be having a crisis of faith in consumerism. She is shocked that buying an expensive handbag or selling one’s attention to a TV show’s advertisers doesn’t bring true happiness.

 

Her solution to this crisis, which is doubling down on faith in a sky-god, doesn’t seem much more promising.

 

It would bring happiness to most of us, yet others might feel life is too easy or worry about the things they can't have.

I don't think money brings happiness but it solves a lot of problems. At the same time might take some pleasure from life specially now that so many things with the right credit card are just a click away and you don't have work to earn them.

 

It's a big subject...

[Kenny]

This level of ignorance about suicide and mental illness hurts rather than helps people who are depressed and suicidal. If suicide is so selfish then suicidal people have even less reason to reach out and disclose their true feelings. Sorry suicide prevention has to prioritize the emotional needs of the suicidal person, not their friends and family and telling them they're loved when they don't feel lovable and won't believe you isn't an answer.

I am imagining a potential suicide calling a prevention hotline and reaching @twinkboylover28 , who responds to the crisis by berating the caller for selfishness.

 

Surely that would help...

[Zapped]

Thank you but my reply was based on what @LADoug1 said. I'm sure folks who commit suicide (because they hate their lives as they're, depression or mental problems) are also suffering and might think the world/family might be better without them.

 

Yes, yes, yes. The times I have seriously contemplated suicide, it looked to me like my family and friends would not only be better off without me, they'd be happy to be rid of me. Distorted, delusional thinking I realize now.

 

In my most recent bout of suicidal thoughts, I still thought they'd be better off without me. At the same time, partially because I'd just been to the visitation and funeral for a colleague who committed suicide and seen the overwhelming grief and trauma, I knew it would be devastating for my family. My adult daughter knows about the earlier episode and has told me many times she'd never get over it if I were to kill myself.

 

So although I was in a lot of pain, and I thought that in some ways my spouse and adult kids would be better off without me (especially financially), I knew they would suffer and see it differently. And I decided that it was better for me to suffer than them.

 

I'm sure some people kill themselves as a kind of "fuck you" to others. At least some, I'm sure, based on my own close calls, think they are solving a problem for others.

 

Like pretty much every major decision we make in life, it's emotionally-based, not rational.

 

And, really, it's fine to be pissed as all fuck at everyone who commits suicide. Then eventually forgiveness can free us. I was really pissed at my colleague, who left behind four kids, two pre-school age. And then I thought about how close I came myself and how I thought my kids be be glad to be rid of me. I'm still pissed. But I also have some empathy and will get to forgiveness eventually.

[Guest]

Great reply. Really gets to the heart of the selfishness issue. Good trolling!

I don’t agree with TBL’s position. That being said, calling someone a troll, stupid, or a dufus doesn’t make your argument look intelligent. It looks like someone in desperation for rational argument who resorts to name calling.

[twinkboylover28]

But it's just as incorrect to say suicide is due to untreated mental illness or to imply well off and successful people have no reason to be unhappy.

 

It's incorrect according to who?

 

Most every mental health professional who have years of experience and training will tell you exactly what I said: most suicides are due to untreated mental illness - specifically depression.

[twinkboylover28]

I am imagining a potential suicide calling a prevention hotline and reaching @twinkboylover28 , who responds to the crisis by berating the caller for selfishness.

 

Surely that would help...

 

Sorry hun, I work at McDonalds.

 

Would you like fries with that?

[Kenny]

I don’t agree with TBL’s position. That being said, calling someone a troll, stupid, or a dufus doesn’t make your argument look intelligent. It looks like someone in desperation for rational argument who resorts to name calling.

Well, if someone is a troll, stupid or a dufus, it is very hard to resist.

 

TBL thinks deep thoughts, like “everyone is entitled to his opinion,” which is a.) insipid, and b.) morally obtuse. Sparky, for example, is not entitled to utter racist diatribes and expect applause for it. A big problem for the inane anti-PC crowd is that they want to be able to spew without consequence.