TallMuscl37

Just curious: what was it that you thought, we were supposed to think 🤔 That said, it’s good that you mentioned “masseur”, but it didn’t quite seem that way initially. Because $200 for an escort certainly isn’t “too high”. As for the $160/$180, as someone who’s done those prices before, I can tell you why it’s harder to find: ESPECIALLY if you’re talking about a traveling provider (which once again, $200 is just a straight forward number). Hotels are more expensive. Most clients are leery of “budget friendly” hotels. I don’t mind budget friendly hotels, however not all are equal. In Seattle couple years ago, most anything budget-brand was nothing nice. I had to stay outside of the city, just to find something suitable. And in regards to: “I mean some money is better than no money, they are getting 100% of the fee”. But is it? I know for me: part of why I have gotten away from such rates is because, $150 is a good price only in numbers. Meaning, if I need $500, I need to see 3-4 clients at $150 minimum. That assumes non of the clients flake, AND they are all able to meet on the same window of days, the 3 other clients can meet. I’m here to tell you: that rarely happens. When it does happen, it may be 1 week, but not every week. Or it may be in one city, but not every city. If someone were to book a $160/180 right now: I’d be grateful, but it would just be enough for immediate expenses. When I was young and starting out, $80 sounded good to me. But then I realize just how fast that goes, and how many people I have to see for it to add up. And lot of times, it’s spinning tires trying to get $100/$150 bookings to add up. It can be hard to save, because it likely goes into hotels or other daily expenses. That’s why for me personally: I now have a $250 starting session, with $200 being the base. $250-$500 is the range I desire. Also like a previous topic I posted: a longer session which earns $1,000-$2,000 is going to really make a difference. I know Masseur rates tend to be a different ball game, but not everyone runs it the same. That’s why I’ve moved away from the masseur title, and consider myself more of an overall experience. However in the Midwest and much of America: Masseur has become a safer way of saying “Escort”. I can understand, but there has to be an understanding that “$200 without a table” Is not “overpriced” because, massage may just be the title. Perhaps they charge $200 for the cost of the overall experience, and massage is just part of it. Now: where lower rates do come in handy, is if I’ve already made enough, or I’m in a city where business is steady throughout the week. In that case; it can stretch and accentuate, what has already been earned.

Good screening is always a good thing. However, I’ll still ask for deposits even from non-first time clients as needed. Reason being: some clients have shown up the first time, but may still have something come up/not show up the 2nd or subsequent time. So in case it ever comes up, one should not feel “offended” if a deposit is asked for after the first time. Like I said before, if said advertiser is spending their own money upfront before getting paid (whether that be hotel, travel/commute, etc): a deposit may still be asked, whether it’s the first or 5th time.

Yuck , your condescending side is showing once again. Amazing how you claim to be such an escort connoisseur and advocate, yet regularly make demoralizing and cocky statements in reference. Get it together…Don’t be a bitch.

I’m not talking about rates, I’m talking about deposits. Scammers proliferate female escort websites just as much if not more as the RMen sites. And regardless, doesn’t matter Male/Female the concept is still the same. Nothing you’re saying is convincing me: “hmm, let me stop taking deposits. Everything that has happened to me, didn’t really happen. And somehow I’ll be busier if I stop taking deposits 🤔” That said, like I said before: the ones who oppose deposits: leave your phone number and you’ll be the first person to contact if and when a client flakes on a booking. Don’t tell someone “don’t put yourself in a position where you can’t handle a cancellation” but then not be willing to offer money directly to someone when it happens. Talk is cheap ✋🏾

Yes, but trust and believe it’s no different than what male escorts deal with. It’s been proven based on the original poster and what others like myself, have stated. You’re looking at in a “escort receives some cash, therefore makes a profit” view. What I’m telling you is: a deposit is not necessarily a profit. For example, if I take a deposit and then spend my own money to reserve a hotel or drive to someplace far away and the client cancels: where’s the profit in that? It’s not. I broke even, and didn’t make any profit at best. Lost more than what the deposit was worth, at worst. When I get a deposit, that is only towards the costs and time of getting ready for the session. That could include anything, from renting hotel, outcall time/travel (as I’ve stated before, not all of us live in San Francisco where clients may be a block away…my commute can be an hour away or longer). A deposit is not a spending spree for me, by any means. It’s received but it’s not in the way you think: “oh I made money”. Even when I’m in close range of the city while traveling and already set up in a hotel: I can’t have clients jerking me around (no pun intended) and not being serious because I may have plans with friends, and how embarrassing to tell or cancel plans with friends, only for the client to cancel too. So I still have to get a deposit even when I’m “Available now”.

What others are saying elsewhere (names edited):

Not always. People have sent deposits and not shown up. Rare, but happens. If I use that deposit towards something that costs like a hotel or travel, it could still be not much earned. I much rather have the full session, than a relatively small deposit.

That’s great, but thing is: most clients who flake, don’t do that. If RentMen and others, made every client click a checkbox disclaimer saying “you agree to still pay the provider’s fee if you cancel the appointment” in the phone number section, I would not have to charge deposits. No brainer 🤷🏾‍♂️

Right, but Las Vegas likely didn’t become popular because people were scared to put in a little money to gamble 🤔 Now, the only difference in the client versus escort gamble: a client losing $50-$100 on a deposit isn’t going to “take food out of their mouth”. That’s their discretionary play money. Their loss is still a loss, but it’s not in the same level of risk. Years ago when I didn’t know any better, I traveled to Las Vegas from Denver for the first time: thinking I would find tons of clients. Nope. Spent two days on hotels, went without a deposit, and almost ran out of gas on the way back in the middle of the desert. That’s not a gamble to take lightly. There’s no guarantee to anything with or without a deposit. In fact, meeting a stranger for sex is risky in itself but guess what: you still have to screen, still have to use common sense, etc. A deposit is a very small layer of risk compared to the bigger picture: you’re meeting someone new AND it’s money involved. Whether that money is cash or a phone apps. In fact, I think many clients have become more agreeable to phone app payments since it’s overall safer than just carrying cash. Also you’re both right it’s not just clients. Sometimes I find the cities with the flakiest clients, tend to also have the flakiest gay scenes in general. This weekend I was trying to get 3 different guys I know to meet: 2 I hooked up with once, the other just a (now) platonic friend (we started off as a hookup, but it didn’t work out so we been “trying” a friendship). Only 1 of the guys managed to meet, and it seemed like I was begging him…keeping in touch, trying to come up with a time and plan to meet. The other 2, in their own world. And this morning I was trying to get a repeat client to come over to my hotel since I was hosting. Even though it was short notice and I reached out to him first, he claimed to only be 12 minutes away, but then after a few messages he changed his mind saying he would not have enough time. I feel many gay guys operate under a “only when I want it and when it’s convenient for me” way. People can argue, “I don’t think he means to waste your time”. Bullshit. These people know exactly what they’re doing. And it’s especially bad I believe, for Black gay men, as many articles on a simple google search will reveal. No matter how much people want to deny it, or sweep it under the rug like it doesn’t exist. But hearing it from others, goes to show it can happen to anyone in this lifestyle. And not getting paid for a 3 day session is nothing short of robbery.

I am doing what I do. The reason I’m presenting it, is because it’s the topic of the discussion. As I told someone else, a couple people asked questions or made statements and I responded. What’s wrong with that? Whether you/y’all agree or not is irrelevant. But if someone is going to make statements, be prepared to get a response. And if anything, YOU were the one trying to convince everyone not to pay deposits. Now if everyone just wants to make it a discussion about good client/bad escort…and then throw in reasons why clients flake on escorts, someone can make a topic on that. But if we are going to talk about deposits, talk about deposits 🤷🏾‍♂️

I’m not interested in educating anyone who doesn’t want to. I’m responding to a question someone asked me. If someone is educated in the process, great. If not…they can receive it however they wish.

I know I use this term often around here: but that gaslighting term comes up again. You can’t gaslight my experiences, and then reference sales data to back it up. It’s not exactly the same, but I get where you are coming from. I know the difference between a client who hasn’t bothered to read an ad, but contacts for a session and then doesn’t want to comply with anything…such as deposits. Or reasonable notice. I have seen the same clients who were dismissive, come around again and try to rebook only to do it again. And more often than not it’s the exact type of people I mentioned earlier. I think @Monarchy79 described it pretty accurately, even though we have differing opinions at times. Many gay guys are streaming multiple options, including the free route. I’m always grateful when someone does go my route. I think you’re inserting fear tactic where it’s not necessarily needed. You assume the escort is the fault if people aren’t following thru properly. I know that’s easy to do, but you have to think a bit more critically and actually ask the ones who are doing this…what the actual facts are. Remember that thread I made about longer sessions? This was in a city that is KNOWN for clients to be consistently flaky. I basically went to the area for that 1 client only, because the amount he was willing to pay. Any other time, I would not dare stop in that town EVER, without a client Pre-booked (city I refer to is Indianapolis btw). I know how they are. Before and while I was there, I had several messages from guys on RM/RMASS who didn’t book. Only 2 showed up, but it was worth the trip. Marketing isn’t always the deal sealer. I’ll even go further to say: most places in America just aren’t good for the biz. Think about it: ANY GAY MEN HERE LOOKING TO GET PAID OR PAY FOR SEX TODAY? Say that aloud in public and see what happens. And then see how it compares to “sales data”. Yes, sex sells and all but we’re up against a force of nature bigger than just “marketing”. Then add living or marketing in places were the men are cheap, or racist, or family/church oriented…you can’t blame that on the escort. The way people act, is a product of their environment. And the clients come to us with that same mentality. Then somehow it’s our marketing at fault. Hmm 🤔 how does that work. Some places are more time wasters than others. I have long learned I have to be strategic to where I go. I don’t go to places based on lots of other guys advertising. Other guy’s choice of location or definition of success (some people may only need 2-3 clients a month only, I’m not). People not in the business, often think that’s always the solution, “go to Miami, go to Los Angeles, go to New York.” Yeah, but that all costs money, and you have to market platinum boost ($24/day) and “available now” constantly to get noticed. And the bigger the city, sometimes the more flakes and even competition trying to stall your business. The state I live in, there’s only a couple cities where one can regularly get clients: Kansas City and St. Louis. And they both have sucked (pun intended) lately. At this point, I’m where I don’t even want to work in my home state anymore because nobody is booking. I have my select regulars, but there’s been hardly any new clients. I even had one the other week send me $20 consultation, then the next day when we were scheduled, he wasn’t answering his messages. That’s why in cases like this, best course of action is usually to leave for a couple years and only go back to visit when necessary. But travel for a month or 2 helps too. Sometimes it doesn’t matter how good your marketing is. If the guys in an area don’t want to pay and/or can’t afford it: It won’t make a difference.

Well, regardless of whether it constitutes an appointment or not: at least now I don’t make any concessions, if a client hasn’t sent a deposit. Few Sunday’s ago, I had 3 potential clients reach out suggesting times they could do an appointment: non of them made it to my door. 2 reasons: #1 they were phony/unreliable, and #2 I didn’t spend any money booking a hotel to host them in the first place. Only thing is, the fact that they have to lie about wanting to book something in the first place, it’s petty and irritating. Some of these dudes out here, specifically a segment of middle aged White men: need to stop wasting sex worker’s time, faking like they want a booking. I don’t know if it’s because I’m in the Midwest, or America in general: but I don’t have time for it. I’ll continue asking for deposits until I’m retired because: People don’t take our time and effort seriously. Idk if it’s just the general economy: but I’m definitely finding fewer ethnic diverse clients, and it mainly seems to be flaky/unreliable White dudes reaching out. Not that I don’t like a particular ethnicity of clients (I met a couple superb ones last weekend when I was out of town), but only like 1 in 25 who contact, seem to be serious or willing to do the most elementary steps of booking a session lately. Like umm…reading the Ad and Auto Responder and following the directions listed. Almost the same odds as winning ANY PowerBall prize, not even talking the jackpot lol. Not good considering the cost of ads, and the cost to maintain an escort lifestyle. It’s not $2. By the time I go to GNC, get my haircut, all the things I need to look and feel good and presentable for every session: I don’t have time to be losing $300+ and then hearing, “I didn’t make an appointment.” Well then why contact me in the first place, if they weren’t serious about it? And sorry if being real rubs anyone wrong but: that’s just the truth of the matter. Few are bringing it up or even acknowledging it’s an issue so: I gotta do what I have to do in the meantime. That’s the thing: you’re never going to really know, unless they show up and you get the coin 🪙 I never know either. That’s why I have to do so. The only ones who get by without deposit, are the REGULAR regulars. Like, see them all time. Not just some guy who comes around once every 6 months out the blue. It’s definitely crazy out here though. I blame the damn apps. We need to all team up and sue them (figuratively) for commission and royalties, for how they created a culture of lack of dependability and desire to put in any effort for hooking up lol. Before then, I didn’t really need deposits as much.

As far as I know yes, the person will still get the message. But that doesn’t stop the recipient from being able to report the message/profile to RM…If it’s any seedy nature to it. They’ll simply just not be able to see the full profile.

I think you’re putting the 🛒 before the…dick lol. You’re making like the escort comes to you, and then initiates contact because a client is ugly…that’s not how it works. We are not a “we buy ugly homes” model. What actually happens is: people hit us up and most times we have no idea what they look like besides perhaps a bit of screening on age, top/Btm preference, etc. The attraction part is icing on the cake. You think if someone who looks like Beiber opened the door, I would say: “don’t worry about paying me, you’re attractive to me!” No, Beiber would be paying just like anyone else. And sometimes those types pay even more lol. For me, it’s not even about looks. The attraction for me comes in the form of how attentive and desirable they are to turning me and each other on. If they seem pleased and eager to please, that’s attractive to me. However, it’s not uncommon to come across clients who are truly just hot and I enjoy myself with them. But I’m not sleeping with them because they are ugly and I’m hot: I just know they have a need to fulfill, and discretion. Rather than do the same thing with one random guy after the next on hookup apps, I find it more purposeful in what we do. Works for me because I avoid the drama and reputation of “sleeping around” on the small world 🌎, which are hookup apps. That’s just by default, whether the client is hot or not.

Which massage sites do you refer to? Because I know on RentMasseur, one can disable email messages accordingly. And of course it’s definitely not 1999 lol, however email is still the shit: in the form of instant messaging. Now THAT was the shit I remember lol. I can do RentMasseur emails, but not so much RentM instant messages. I always try to send at least 1 reply even after my auto message goes out: just to let them know I’m real. But not many seem to transition to phone. I won’t use messenger solely to book an appointment. I rarely ever take unexpected phone calls from my ads anymore. Too many times, I’ve been sucked into chatting with someone or asked explicit questions when it was off timing. So even though people may have preference to call, it doesn’t suit everyone.

I’m just speaking from a general standpoint. In my case, I already know “financial goals unmet”, is moreso due to the fact that the region I’m in, isn’t very working guy supportive. There’s some decent clients here and there, but most times: it’s usually last minute bookings or guys who only book once in a blue. Or they book and then flake. Hence why I try to keep regular travel every 2 to 3 weeks as much as possible 🤦🏾‍♂️ I feel pricing for this biz is unpredictable across the board and doesn’t necessarily follow the same patterns. I could be charging $150 and have the same number of clients as charging $500. Only difference would be, I would be making $150 instead of $500. If someone is going to pay, they will. I have occasionally met with guys for rates lower than I normally would, and they may only come around a time or 2. Their perceived value of sex, says less than what I am capable of asking and getting.

Well the whole gist of this thread isn’t necessarily about comparing different prices that escorts offer: moreso about any longer arrangement booking that is goes into the $1,000+ range. Even with the amount I did get, I had to distribute it carefully because I’ve been in such a drought these past couple months. And going a week or 2 without a client and getting a 1 hour session helps, but it goes so fast and then, I’m right back to square one. I don’t think any of us started with: “I only want to make just enough to pay bills/groceries, and barely get by”. And lot of people try to make like you have to have a 2nd everyday regular job to make it in the biz. Which is not true because, traveling guys like myself that wouldn’t work. Like this longer booking I took, I had to commute 2 states away just to get it. And while I was there, I even booked in another client so…having one successful venture can often lead to the next. But 5 days is a long time though, and it sounds like maybe it was a couple who knew each other? In that case I could see it being a vacation definitely. The other thing too, I often hear about clients here and elsewhere doing longer sessions with White and Latin/Asian/Etc. I know that’s a touchy topic but, it plays a part. However most of my longer sessions tend to be White guys, I know that’s just how it goes. Also in my case, @pubic_assistance he was not “lonely” but had time alone for a few days…won’t go into the details but, let’s say he wasn’t single or bad looking lol.

…and not to seem unappreciative of the hourly/under $500 bookings. But: I had a booking over the weekend that was a longer visit over 1,000. I only had 1 other visit like that all year, and it makes a big difference. I know $250+ is a lot for most dudes to give for an “experience” anyway, but I had to run it by someone who sees me occasionally the other day: Higher amount bookings tend to be the most important thing to biz, next to regulars of course. Some of these guys only want to throw a couple hundred bucks, but they’ll talk all about how they spent $1,000 on this, or $2,000 on that luxury like it’s nothing. Which is fine, it’s their money and prerogative… But at the same time, I can’t always multiply 200 or 300 by 5 clients in a week. Especially in markets that already have plenty of new and local escorts and masseurs, but not really enough clients to go around. So as I explained to someone the other day, “I feel like you expect me to feel asking $250/$300 is too expensive”. What if that is the only booking I have that weekend, or in some cases the whole week? Figure out how to make that last. It really doesn’t. I know some clients probably don’t wish to spend an overnight or two days with someone. But it’s looking really attractive to go the longer session only route when doing certain bookings/locations. Like lately, I’m cutting back on the “go to a city and see 5 clients” because that’s not really always the turn out. Even after sifting thru 1,000 messages. If they haven’t texted and done what’s needed to confirm, most times it’s just inquiries and guys bullshitting around… So 5 “clients” could end up only being 1 actually booking (true story last month in one city, but fortunately it was an extended time booking).

I get where you are coming from with that. In my case, I wasn’t coming for you for simply not planning a precise eta, but moreso not coordinating one. And regarding those who would say “consider the appointment cancelled if 15 minutes late”, I’ll be like: and I’m keeping the deposit and/or you owe me the half amount 🤷🏾‍♂️ However in your case, you cancelled on him and that’s the error: He replied at 11:05 PM: "Are you here?" I said "NO" and he asked "Are you on Uber?', I once again told him I was walking 7 blocks to get to him. "What's your ETA?". I replied: "Are you high?". I had to cancelled, I can't handle this goldfish / microwave mindset they have when it comes to others. I might have overreacted but I had enough. You cancelled because he asked what’s your ETA? I don’t see anything wrong with that, that wasn’t aggressive, just trying to figure out when you’re arriving. Maybe you 2 discussed a time frame somewhere in there. But you didn’t allude to that being the case. Exactly how much notice did you give? Regardless, not trying to beat you up as it happens and people get mixed up trying to plan dick appointments all the time. But all this is why I don’t do biz anymore without deposits because, I would be hard pressed dealing with a situation that gets cancelled just for whatever bullshit reason comes to mind. I also avoid short notice. Available now is merely, “text now to make appointment” Especially considering my commute is never 7 blocks walking distance away, most times my commute is rarely less than 50 miles, to get to appointments. And some clients can be impatient yet don’t always convey how busy they are. “I’m free all day” should be dropped from all vocabulary because many of them never are. Just like the guy is just “sitting at home” waiting for you, many clients do the same.

Then what the fuck does it constitute, a lie? It doesn’t always have to be down to a date and time to be considered a booking. If I’m supposed to treat clients like all their booking requests are tentative, I wouldn’t be able to plan trips, tours and other things necessary to make appointment’s happen. That said, I’m more aware of it now than before because: that’s why I don’t consider bookings booked, without a deposit..I had that happen today. Was supposed to have a 7 p.m. booking that the guy said he wanted: ghosted. Lucky for me, he never sent the deposit so I didn’t make any concessions 🤷🏾‍♂️

Okay, you know I’m going to have to go in on you..so, just put your seat 💺 belt on because I’m about to give it to you straight 😂 First of all, idk what the conversation was like prior to what you started with. I don’t imagine that it went from getting dressed to “on your way” in such short notice, how much notice did you actually give him? And even if you did get dressed in 2 minutes, that’s not a time frame. Y’all should have set a time frame, and if it was less than 1 hours notice, it’s no wonder it didn’t work out. Clients and escorts need to discard this idea that we can meet at fast as an Uber can arrive: plan ahead and avoid miscommunication. It doesn’t have to be days ahead…just 2 to 4 hours can make a difference. This is why I stress clearly I require at least 2 hours notice for all bookings. I don’t care if you’re at the hotel room next door to me…or should I say, UNLESS you’re at the hotel room next door to me lol. Even yesterday I had to tell a client: The earliest I can get to you is, two hours from now (would have been 9:30 p.m.). Reason why I ask two hours notice is because: it gives time for both people to figure out location and time of arrival. It also limits rushing and leaves time for unexpected time delays. The other day, a client of mine went to the wrong hotel which had a similar room number as mine. Since it was less than two hours notice, he forgot to get the actual name of the hotel 😂 You seemed spur of moment, he seemed unexpected…It was just an unnecessary dumpster fire that could have been avoided. I don’t think it’s just the young generation. I have seen older guys blow up my phones texting…asking ETA, here yet, etc etc. almost like they’re clutching their phones in anxiety. It doesn’t need to be that way. When I’m doing non-business hookups, I don’t rush the guy. I just make sure everything is okay and chill if they coming to me. Worked just fine the other night. Sex is a privilege, not a right. Patience is key. It’s funny how people always want it fast when THEY want it, but when I want it: they want to drag it out and take days, weeks, YEARS to return a text. I often see a common issue where clients try to plan too much other stuff around booking a date, non of which involves the escort: but expects the escort to drop their whole life and rush to their beck. Ah, no. If they can plan this and that and everything else, they can plan time with us too. Not some last minute, spur of the moment, now or never type of interaction..

Yeah I find it hot to come across a sexy otter regardless of age, hairy usually equates to often horny lol 😛

I didn’t look it up, someone recently made another response to it…And I just happened to see it in the feed. So it was just in reference. That said, another reason I moved to a deposit only model is because I got so tired of potential (and even 2nd time returning) clients talking about “we never made an appointment, I don’t owe you anything blah blah blah”. But you texted me and told me you were coming to town, and that you were going to be happy to meet up/meet up again, and would text me this week? I been in the biz too long to be playing those games. I dealt with that a lot in Florida and Arizona when I lived in both for periods of time, especially during the times I relied on appointments to show the most. These days, I don’t have time or energy to be arguing with clients and 2nd guessing whether or not they booked an appointment. Don’t do deposits? No booking/No conversation. Didn’t waste any time or thought expecting something. Anyone who is put off, is 50/50 chance if not going thru with it anyway, and unfortunately with so many options in some cities…it’s anybody’s guess. Like I said, only ones who get to meet without deposits are people I’m meeting on non business or “introducing” myself off the main escort sites (though I stopped meeting A4A clients without deposits) Even if I meet guys outside of the biz, they have to be transparent and not appear they’re trying to conceal something (face/dating status/phone number.) Because more often than not, timewaster.

But why would I care to do that though? Unless you were booking me specifically and I needed a reference in lieu of a deposit, I’m not trying to prove a point. And if it happened twice, is it a mistake? Once again, not interested in who you booked in the past. Doesn’t change much about your demeanor towards me and the topic of this thread. I’m still going to ask/receive deposits anytime I have to spend my own money upfront. Whoever doesn’t, that’s their personal choice.