Gar1eth

I'll agree with @quoththeraven about the disdain. I disdain overly feminine males. I also disdain overly butch females. I don't want either of them as sex partners. Give me NORMALITY!!! Gman PS. Of course I also disdain overly macho males -but I might consider topping them.

And yet testosterone is given to female to male transsexuals, and I believe it's supposed to do more than just change physical characteristics. And likewise with estrogen for male to female transsexuals. Gman

PS After thinking about what I wrote above-I still believe it's true-of course my belief and $3.25 will get you a grande caramel frappachino at Starbucks-what probably would be even more interesting than the original question I posed would be the percentage of prepubertal boys with effeminate traits who grew up to be gay vs those who went on to be straight and prepubertal girls with masculine traits and so on, so on so forth... Gman

Note that I said there were cultural differences. And yes there is a spectrum. But there is a general overarching theme for masculine and feminine behavior. You only have to look at the animal kingdom to see that. It's not really that difficult to surmise that some gay men-apart from any specific trying on their part- considering that all gay men like things that are 'biologically' on the feminine side of things- might have 'qualities' more on the feminine side. And vice versa for some lesbians. I'm not saying all gay men or all lesbians. But the tendency has to be there. It's been noted since antiquity. And I just have trouble believing it's all acquired acculturation of people putting on an expected role-esp considering the animal kingdom. And yes there are outliers. As humans with larger brain power/reasoning, and skills/society, there are lots of times we don't follow the paradigm in the animal kingdom. But it seems to me instead of the fact that there are outliers-which if I'm understanding is your main point-the more important point is that there is a general tendency that we follow the paradigm in broad measures. What I would wonder about -and since these things are society specific I'll talk about middle America-the percentage of effeminate straight guys vs effeminate gay men. Because if there were more (percentage-wise) straight men with these traits we consider feminine, that would do more to support your argument that these traits don't occur more frequently in gay males. Gman

If it was for finding out about your partners, wouldn't you have to dip first to find out? Gman

I wonder if they are really construction workers or if it's just their shtick? Gman

What if you were the last client he kissed? It would be quite a feature in your cap. Gman

He says he's 'muscular'. I'll agree he has muscles but he's not quite what I think of as 'muscular.' Gman

I'm sorry. I didn't understand. Your teacher was one what? Gman

I'm Jewish and was circed as an infant. I prefer the look and feel of circumcised tallywackers. But if for some reason I had never been circed as a child, it would take a lot (ie some major medical reason) for me to have it done as an adult. Gman

Does anyone think that shot of his backside doesn't go along very well with the pictures of his front? What I mean is that his front side looks muscular, and his backside looks more slender than I was expecting. Gman

I disagree. Without standards/classifications things can't be measured or assessed. Gman

I once told a guy I was chubby, and he blocked me. Gman

There are usually societal standards of both masculinity and femininity. They aren't intrinsically "good". But as opposed to the way some people feel on here, they aren't intrinsically bad either. They also aren't static as they can change over time. Nowadays with the emphasis on self and with media, I'll bet they may be more in flux than in many other eras. But just as the traits themselves are neither good nor bad, liking those traits in a prospective bedmate or partner is not a bad thing either (assuming both partners are of legal age). There can be minor variations in what people feel/think/consider appropriate masculinity/femininity on a societal basis. But unless someone has some problem with emotional perception, I think most average people of a society can at least recognize what the standards are even if they can't consciously recite them. The situation is analogous to the the former definition of porn where the judge may not have been able to define it, but he knew it when he saw it. And then there are those who either consciously or subconsciously have rejected being attracted to the societal standards or who like the standard but have also have broadened what they find attractive outside the standard. Gman

I like what I consider 'normal'. I don't want a guy with a lot of feminine mannerisms. On the other hand I am not interested in an overly macho guy whose every other word is a 'cuss-word' and who is overly abrasive. Gman

I'm sure you'll find some women wanting a softer male, and others wanting someone more assertive. But of course it's not just males. Looking at the other side of things-the 'butch' lesbian comes to mind. Some of these behaviors are probably learned -but there has to be a strong biological component from looking at usual m/f roles in the animal kingdom. Gman

I'll be pissed ? if they take mine. That Swiss Navy is expensive. Gman

Yes, or even a "Hope Springs Eternal" Chest. Gman

For my trunk. I'll keep my lube, cockring, (and in cooler temps) condoms in it. It's not like I'll need to use it a lot -but it's good to have the stuff on hand. When I lived 1600 miles away from family, I kept that stuff in a backpack. Now that I'm back home and doing shopping for my Mom-and just in general around my family more-it seems to make sense to have that stuff more securely stashed away on the off chance I might be getting into the trunk with with them around. Gman

I'm betting the operative words were "weeks before his retirement". He was prob burned out. But that still doesn't excuse it. While I had a great time with Alec, a meeting I had with his boyfriend Ryan was less than stellar. A nice guy, and we did touch-but not very much. Gman

While I obviously want to give Mike his due, I hope we aren't causing any problems for @kaboom35. I know what it's like to not have a good time with someone the Message Center loves. Gman

You've always been very helpful. Gman

Has he changed positions? He says he's a top. But this thread started as being about bottoms. Gman

On our weekends together Mike would often go to the hotel gym in the mornings before I woke. One of the only escorts I think who worked out even more than Mike was ex escort Alec Andrews of sainted memory. I actually obtained a guest pass at the YMCA for him, and he worked out for probably over an hour. Gman

Years ago I had a not very memorable overnight with an escort who was a Forum darling at the time. He was late getting to me,(and we had theater reservations), we had to throw down dinner to get to the theater on time, the escort ordered fish for dinner (not horrible in and of itself-but as I dislike seafood to begin with -I was worried about what kissing him would be like), and later that evening after we saw Hairspray and repaired to the boudoir, he said he didn't know I was interested in topping him and he wasn't prepared even though in our initial emails setting things up, I had said I was a top. He didn't even offer to 'prepare' himself, and we had all night. I wasn't brave enough to admit all this on the Forum as I feared the responses. So again I'm sorry it didn't work out. But I applaud your courage. Gman