Tommygunzz

Ann Richards had some beauties, too!

Ann Richards had some beauties, too!

I agree with sync. I have never understood my husband's rationale that writing a check is "safer" than paying electronically.

I don't think the two space rule after the state still applies, since the correct state abbreviations no longer include periods, just like Ms. Discuss.

There is a certain stretch of I-90 just west of Ellensberg, WA that had an interesting affect on me. I remember more than once driving my VW in the eastbound lane and for some reason I would get a roaring hardon. Of course, I was in college at the time and erections came frequently and unexpectedly, but I always remember rubbing one off on the interstate.

When I lived in Anchorage in the early 1980's, I participated in a city wide scavenger hunt for charity. Each 4 member team was assigned a taxi cab and was given their first clue that would lead them to a destination somewhere in the city. Actors were stationed at each location, and after our team "solved" the clue, we were given a token that proved we were there. Plus, we were handed the clue to another location.
 
One of the clues was actually sheet music to an un-named song. The instruction was to "find the one you sing of and take a bite." The song turned out to be "The Yellow Rose of Texas."
There's a yellow rose in Texas
That I am gonna back to see
Nobody else could miss her
Not half as much as me
She cried so when I left her
It like to broke my heart
And if I ever find her
We never more will part
 
She's the sweetest little rosebud
That Texas ever knew
Her eyes are bright as diamonds
They sparkle like the dew
You may talk about your Clementine
And sing of Rosa Lee
But the Yellow Rose of Texas
Is the only girl for me
 
None of us could read music so we went to a nightclub with a live band and asked them to play the tune. We figured out the words by asking the band and nightclub patrons to sing the song for us.
 
Solve: There was a restaurant in Anchorage called "The Yellow Rose." We jumped in the taxi and the four of us ran into the restaurant looking for "Rosa Lee." She (the actor), had a yellow rose in her hair, and was sitting at a table having dinner with friends. The "take a bite" from the clue led us to pick up a fork and have some of her dinner. She gave us the token and the clue to the next puzzle.
 
There were no cell phones back then, and I don't think Al Gore had discovered the internet yet, so it took a lot of ingenuity and luck to solve each of the puzzles.
 
We had to solve as many puzzles as we could in 3 hours, and had to check back in at the hotel "home base" within 3 hours to turn in our tokens. While the judges scored each team's bounty, we had dinner and drinks. The whole thing was incredibly fun and still brings back memories from over 30 years ago.

100% real. Been with him several times, dating back almost 18 months. A wonderful young man who is excellent at what he does.

I liked it too. Thought some of the writing was quite funny and clever, especially if you had some context back to the original show. I did think that a millennial might not "get" some of the humor that I enjoyed. Then I remembered that most millennials probably aren't watching sitcoms on network TV.

Now I'm sorry that I just moved back to Dallas from Las Vegas ...

My advice and opinion: Let it go. Move on. Life is too short. You haven't described any systematic patterns of behavior that are actionable. Those in this thread telling you to pursue legal action are leading you down a road to frustration and ultimate defeat.
 
I'm also not advising that you forget about this experience. You should use it as an opportunity to look at your own behavior to see if there was anything you could do differently in the future.
 
In a long career, you will probably have a few places on your resume that might be considered bad choices as you look back. We all have them. Bad employment experiences (and job interviews as well) can be learning experiences that you can take with you in the future. Take some time to look back at the entire interaction with this company, including your initial interview. Were there any red flags that you see now that didn't stand out at the time? Are there any questions you could have asked in the interview that would help you avoid this type of situation again?
 
One thing that stood out to me in your OP was that you said "I was open with everyone at work". While I would never advise anyone to be in the closet, perhaps being too open, too soon, with everyone made other people uncomfortable. You should be VERY selective about the co-workers you choose to confide in about the personal details of your life. Remember, you're there to work, not socialize. I know that others will disagree, but I strongly recommend keeping personal life separate from professional life. I received this advice from a straight friend years ago and have repeated it to straight friends as well as gay friends and it has served me well. For the majority of your co-workers, you should not reveal that you're gay. It's none of their business and it has nothing to do with the work you're there to do. It's just not professional. They're co-workers, not friends. Don't blur those boundaries. And don't say "If they have a problem with me being gay, it's their problem." No, it's YOUR problem because you have to work with them. The conversations with co-workers you've described sound inappropriate for the workplace, to me. Don't participate. Maintaining your professional reputation should be one of your highest priorities. I feel this would work for you in the future, especially if you feel your co-workers were part of this discrimination.
 
One thing I didn't see in your OP was how you viewed your own job performance and the value you feel you added to the company. They didn't discuss any performance issues with you in 7 months. Even 3 months is too long to go without any feedback on your performance. Some companies don't do regular performance reviews or do them badly. Did you ever ask your supervisor for a performance review, either formal or casual? If it's not a regular thing in this company to have one-on-one meetings with your supervisor to discuss these things, be proactive and ask for it. Ask "How am I doing?", "What can I do better?". Be prepared for a negative response, but use it to modify your own behavior. The fact that you're asking will be viewed positively by your supervisor.
 
Finally, do NOT make any negative comments on social media. This will not hurt the company and can only come back to bite you in the future. It's common now for employers to do social media searches when hiring prospective new employees. This advice especially true if you're not yet ready to put an end to your career and head blissfully into world of retirement.
 
That's my advice for anyone building a career. For you, put a period on this, but use it as a learning experience for the future. You can take something positive from this experience if you're honest with yourself as you think about these 7 months. And I apologize if I read anything between the lines that's just not there.

Here's my perspective...
 

Not a particularly wise statement and could be construed as harassment or at the very least inappropriate and offensive.
 

I would not classify this as harassment or discrimination. Inappropriate, maybe and it appears to have offended you. To me, relatively innocuous.
 

 
THAT is an inappropriate statement and, to me, discriminates on sexual orientation and gender. Wonder whether she would like any straight men?
 

 
If the topic of conversation was "non-white friends," I could see the relevance, but that is a topic that does not belong at work.
 

 
Wow - that smacks of age bias. Quick question: why did you give her your license?
 

 
I'm with your co-worker on this one. A man eyeing up another man in a work setting is as inappropriate as a man eyeing up a woman. Unwanted attention and leering apply to people of the same gender as well as people of opposite genders. In fact, in this year's version of my company's anti-harassment video one of the examples was a gay man paying unwanted attention to another gay man. If the other guy or the woman complained to ER about your behavior this might explain why you were fired. However, one is usually warned and coached/counseled first.
 

 
I am also surprised. However, in a recent training class at work we had a case study about a financial services firm (not the one I work for) where a New York-based employee observed behavior that appeared to be unethical and illegal, reported it to his supervisor, and was retaliated against. The employee was transferred to Chicago where he reported it to his new supervisor. The new supervisor immediately reported the incident to his management, the company's employee relations division, and its ethics office. As a result, the company had to disclose the behavior to a regulator who fined the company and the person in NYC who committed the bad behavior. The person who did the deed and the manager who did not take action were both fired.
 
That being said, I am surprised you did not consult with your company's employee relations team when the first offensive behavior occurred. If the company has a diverse and inclusive workforce it seems ER would have been interested in hearing about your experience. Is there a reason you did not say something?
 
FYI - I am simply curious as to why you didn't saying anything. I do not believe that not reporting the offensive behavior justifies it or the actions taken against you.
 
Did you happen to ask your former SVP what "performance issues" got you fired? For that matter, when you were fired did you ask? You mentioned that none were offered, but I am wondering whether they would have provided something if you had asked. Again, not excusing the vague reasons.
 
Nonetheless, it is unfortunate that you had this experience and I am sorry you had to endure it.
 
 

 
In terms of seeking compensation, unless you file a complaint with the EEOC I don't see you receiving money unless you sue. If you ask them for compensation now they will likely say "no." They are also not likely to respond to threats of posting negative comments on social media. That can be construed as blackmail. Probably would not help if you chose to sue/file a complaint nor would it be helpful when finding another job. If you want to use social media to vent, I'd suggest checking out other comments first. If they receive consistently great comments about the workplace your negative comments will appear as sour grapes from a disgruntled former employer who was fired for cause. That's not to say the comments are without merit, just saying you might do yourself more harm than good.

Some federal circuits are considering SEX to include orientation. Also if you are over 40 it could be to your advantage. I imagine state courts in NV would be just as horrific as TX, SC and so on ...

Find a good lawyer. Period
 
If what you are saying is accurate, regardless of the state, laws governing discrimination, whether it is race, age, sexual orientation, religious, often comes with zero tolerance.
 
I had the identical situation at work a number of years ago. I was the victim of harassment over being gay, and over my race. The harassment was subtle and often with innuendos. The first time it happened I pushed back very hard. I filed a complaint with corporate, pursued complaints with HR, but the situation escalated.
 
I finally got a lawyer. Some lawyers will tell you that you need to show that you have been damaged in some way, either financially or emotionally. Denied a promotion, salary cut, transferred to another area making it difficult to commute , layed off, forced into early retirement, demoted unfairly, or they want you to show that you have been emotionally damaged in some way, needing therapy, medication, the severity impacting your ability to perform your job... however that is not necessarily the case. None of those things had happened to me, I was just being harassed, which is why you need the right lawyer.
 
A year later, when the lawsuit was finally settled, one of the guys in the office was terminated. I took a year off work on their dime, with full benefits, and then they had to pay me an additional year of disability, and they allowed me to retire early without being penalized, and then they wrote me a big fat check. Two days later I packed my bags and headed to Florida.
 
Good luck...

No matter how you decide to handle it, I'm sorry you're dealing with it.
 
We should be past these things in this day and age, but we're not. Sadly, I don't think there's a silver bullet for ignorance.

I agree that letter of references are basically useless now. When I was a reference I was told to just refer to HR. With social media it is hard to get anything of substance in writing as you never know when a letter could show up on Facebook. Even a glowing letter could end up on social media for co-workers to see which an employer may not want seen by employees.
 
The fact that the person hiring you also was let go for a vague reason probably makes your case harder.

Sorry to hear you had to work with people like that.
For all of the crushing, frustrating challenges my organization unleashes on us, at least there is no tolerance for the kind of behavior you describe. It rarely happens, and I'm thankful for it.
I've worked around people like you describe years ago, but now I'm not sure I'd have the tolerance for it on a daily basis.

After 7 months at a new job, I was let go for "job performance issues". No other clarification. No warning. No previous discussion about job performance. Not even a 6 month review. My employment was "at will" meaning that they could let me go for any reason without warning. But, I don't think discrimination---ageism, sexual orientation and sex---is covered.
 
Some things happened during my tenure that I recorded in my notes:

My boss's boss made a comment the first time that she met me that I was "nothing like she expected." I kind of laughed and pressed her why and she said that she didn't expect my gray hair and Dad-bod.
Same person continually addressed me (and others) as "Love". Like "How are you today Love?" "Yes, Love, what is it?"
My immediate supervisor told me the reaction of two other people who interviewed me. They didn't think I was "gay enough for (her boss). "You know how she likes her Gays."
In a group conversation at work, one co-worker asked if I had ANY non-white friends.
Same co-worker asked to see my driver's license picture one day and checked out my birth date, then remarked that she had no idea I was that old.
Another co-worker, who knew I was Gay (I was open with everyone at work), made a comment to me one day in the hallway when I almost ran into her on my way to the men's room. Another man had just walked by us and I was checking him out. The co worker suggested that I should watch where I was going and not to be looking at other men.

There's a few more, but that's the general idea.
 
I just had a phone-review this week with a Senior VP about my concerns. I worked in his group, but only with limited exposure. He is high enough up in the organization to make a decision on this, or at least high enough to influence HR. I had sent him (and the VP of HR) an email 2 weeks after my termination and listed all of the above in the email. He agreed to talk to me. The HR VP said that she would speak to him after the conversation. The discussion went well and I kept bringing up "discrimination" and "diversity." I told him that I felt I had been discriminated against. His only response was that he would look into this and get back to me. No time frame.
 
This company is the world's largest in it's field. The workforce is diverse and inclusive, so I'm surprised at the comments that I received from people who should be more sensitive. They are protective of their image and would not welcome any adverse publicity that this might cause them.
 
I don't want my job back. I do want to be compensated for what I feel has been an injustice. My question is how much should I go for. One friend suggested starting at 3x annual salary. I would be willing to accept much less.
 
I am not sure I would ever go as far as to actually take them to court. (They are based in another Country.) However, I would ask an attorney friend to write a letter intended to make them think I was serious. I am prepared to make comments in social media (Facebook, Instagram, blogs, Linked In, Glassdoor, etc.) to turn up the heat. I also don't want this to drag on too long, so I want them to make a decision quickly--let's say in a couple of weeks.
 
Advice?

I didnt get a job i was really aiming for a few years back due to this. my previous employer does not allow references, they even fired a supervisor who gave a reference for another coworker. she violated company policy. they only allow verification of employment. even the job i was applying for said they dont give references either but require it. so stupid

Just one guy's perspective.
 
After 25 years in management, I transitioned to consulting. I do a lot of recruiting.
 
Written reference letters mean nothing to me - I tend to disregard them. I tell candidates not to bother sending them.
 
Its a frustrating and contradictory world. Employers want references. But all sizeable employers have policies saying they won't give references - they'll merely confirm employment .
 
I use an employment application. I insist candidates complete and sign the sections regarding honesty and references... tell them they can complete the rest or attach a resume. The reference section includes a hold-harmless release regarding reference requests of contacts. (Probably worthless,but better than nothing...and it helps me get info.)
 
I only accept verbal references. Want verbal confirmation of employment. And frequently get people to say more than their policy permits... particularly when they want to give a good reference. Stated differently, when every previous employer defers to their no-reference policy, refusing to say anything - particularly if I reach former managers outside the HR department - its a potential bad sign.
 
If candidates provide a letter, but dont want me to contact an employer... its a red flag.
 
....just my way, my industry....

Thanks for the advice Sync. I am currently 63 and only a couple of years away from when I thought I would retire. My planner says I can retire now and still be OK to live to 95, so that is a comfort. It also puts me at a point in my life where I feel like I would like to release that inner-bitch and not have to worry about some other retaliation. I'm back in Texas now, so it could be a costly out-of-state fight, but I would delight in taking this a bit farther, if only to make a few former co-workers miserable.
 
The company is owned by investors and they would like to spin the company off. I think that this might be some publicity that they would not enjoy. I'm also not above reaching out to the CEO of the company in Montreal and the CEO of the investment group in Ft Worth.

If you decide to keep working, perhaps the guarantee of a really good letter of recommendation would be worth more $ than you will probably get.

Always ask high so they can compromise lower.

Move on. Focus your energy on finding your next position.
 
This is not to excuse discrimination in any form. But, your former employer has the upper hand in terms of dollars and time. They can, and will, play a war of attrition.

You might want to consider consulting with a plaintiff-side employment lawyer in the area where you worked. They can tell you what realistic expectations are, whether you have a claim worth pursuing, and the various avenues open to you, such as an EEOC complaint process, a state employment discrimination process, or other avenues. Many will offer a free consultation, although whether the good ones where you are, I can't say. If you can get a free consultation, which is usually 30 minutes to an hour, you should present yourself well, have any relevant paperwork organized, and be prepared to give a coherent capsule summary of what happened in very concrete, linear chronology. Including the parts that might not be favorable to you. Good luck!

I tend to agree. But if you're determined to follow up, get an attorney.
 
Speaking as a former manager, VP in a publicly-traded corp, I didnt read anything that sounds like actionable discrimination. Inappropriate - yes. Perhaps borderline harassment or hostile... They'll respond that you had a duty to address the matter while employed, and "spin" it as sour grapes after termination.
 
With an attorney, you might get a settlement as a nuisance... But then you won't be able to list that employer. Depending on where you are in career plans, that may not matter.
 
It's a huge energy drain to pursue a settlement,potentially expensive, and you may never get the outcome thats truly helpful. Give serious thought to moving on.