lseactuary90

Mate, I’ve been there—truly. Sometimes the only place I’ve felt that kind of intimacy was in a paid setting too (and I’m married). It messes with your head, especially when it feels more genuine than all the “real” encounters. NYC can be brutal—cold, performative, surface-level. What you felt was real because you were finally met, seen, and allowed to soften. That’s not about money—that’s about connection. Don’t shame yourself for seeking it where it exists. Whether it’s through an escort or not, you deserve more of that feeling. Keep following what makes you feel alive. There is no shame in that. 

We all pay.  If not with cash, then with time, arguments, frustrations, compromises, freedom, etc.  So, yes, intamacy will require payment for the rest of your life 

I'm commenting as he has almost never been single. So I don't think he is qualified to make these statements. 
I know because I've spoken to him before. 
The race was just an example. Similar to a rich person saying 'money isn't important' while looking at a poor person. That doesn't help the poor person at all and is just performative at best.

I can't stand videos like this, it is full of “self-love influencer” energy. Its so easy to say this kinda stuff when you are married/partnered and looking at others (see his giant ring?). 
If he was perpetually single, and then reacting this way, then I'm listening. 
Its like a white women talking about black racism when she doesn't experience it at all or even been through even an ounce it. Empathy is one thing, living with it is another. 

I'm not saying *all*. I literally met someone the other day who was white who only dates black men for example. 
My point was I don't seem to fit someones "box" for what they want in a partnership (at least not yet) so I'm at best getting the hookup. 
I would say, I find white guys the most open though, and POC's the most closed (either they only want their own race or a white opposite).

I sympathize. But I’m not even getting the hookup. Good on you for that at least!
I could be the only available and still be passed over.
I had a friend I was very close with, PoC, who I was beginning to think he and I had feelings for each other. I’m sure he sensed it too—at least from me—because at one point he told me, “I could never be your boyfriend. You’re too good of a friend.” Talk about deflating…We’re still friends, but that right there sums up my whole relationship experiences in one interaction.
People suck. 

This is a nuanced subject, so I will try and share my thoughts.
With hookups - the 'filter' is different. Are you hot? Do you fit what they are looking for (top, bottom etc). Guys tend to be more uninhibited. There is also this unspoken rule of 'this is what it is' so there is no 'pressure' for it to go any further.
Dating is more nuanced. When someone is looking for a life partner, I imagine they are looking for a 'type' of guy. I have friends (all races) who literally told me that they felt coming out was hard, so dating the 'same race' basically helped them 'prove it was worth it' to their family. In my experience, people are attracted to what they are familiar with, so likely stick to someone who looks like someone they knew/know (which makes sense). There are also external prejudices e.g. 'would he fit in with my friends' / 'would he fit in with my family', etc that are made based on your appearance and therefore while they may 'like you as a person', you may not 'fit their world'. This, btw, doesn't need to be limited to race, it could be other attributes too. 
This also then explains who I 'attract' - another 'suppressed' single person of colour (but often not hot, as if they are, they are 'taken' by someone), partnered (white/latino) guys (since they are 'taken' they have nothing to 'loose'), much older guys (I'm talking 20+ year age gap / because by that point in their life they have shedded much of the social conditioning they grew up with), out of shape guys (probably being rejected a lot so still try and shoot their shot with me) or visitors (who are looking to 'try something new'). None of these are 'actual' matches for me as a partner. 
In my particular case, I was born/raised in the West, so I speak very clear English (on the phone most people think I'm 'white'). I now live in the US. But physically I am mixed so I look 'exotic' which is why I'm placed in the 'hot / try this' bucket, but guys probably don't imagine 'settling down' with me as I don't fit what they consider 'romance material' (even though I am actually pretty romantic and soft at heart). 
I would say, as the years have gone by, it is better. Guys become more exposed (work, social media and otherwise) and are more 'accepting' of other cultures, looks etc. But I'm also in my mid 30s, so a lot of guys are partnered up and/or traumatised by their ex and only looking for fun now, which makes things harder. 

This sounds like the frustration everyone but bisexuals face.  Bisexuals are open to everyone, but most people only want either the oppositte sex or the same sex.

The question I wonder is where are they meeting their partner 'in real life' because a lot of people I speak to are still meeting on apps, IG, or the like. They may connect again in person (through a party, mutual friend etc) but I've rarely head the story 'oh we met at a sports club' (unless both were there for like 5+ years) so it seems strange. I'm more than open to going to in person places and connecting, but people still flake, even harder than apps tbh. 
I would correct that statement to say 'many who wanted a partner found one'. A partner is not something on a shelf you check out. I always wanted a partner and never found one, and I know dozens of men who also didn't. Just because you 'wanted something' doesn't mean it automatically happens. It depends on other factors like where you live, supply/demand, and we all know the gay racism and 'hierarchies' in certain places that still exist too.
Also, countless people I know are unhappy/settled in relationships but can't 'get out' and have no incentive (except for those singles you mentioned, who agree, carry baggage). This makes it even harder for someone like me, who always wanted a partner but never found one (wasn't even given a chance) and now I find myself in this situation.
Just seems unfair, hence the title of this thread i.e. do I have to keep paying basically because I'm not sure what else I can even do at this stage to get the consistent kind of intimacy I am looking for. 

Yup I shared this with my current therapist... and he diverted me to talking about 'values'.

I can't stand videos like this, it is full of “self-love influencer” energy. Its so easy to say this kinda stuff when you are married/partnered and looking at others (see his giant ring?). 
If he was perpetually single, and then reacting this way, then I'm listening. 
Its like a white women talking about black racism when she doesn't experience it at all or even been through even an ounce it. Empathy is one thing, living with it is another. 

I'm commenting as he has almost never been single. So I don't think he is qualified to make these statements. 
I know because I've spoken to him before. 
The race was just an example. Similar to a rich person saying 'money isn't important' while looking at a poor person. That doesn't help the poor person at all and is just performative at best.

I recently hired a masseur to come over for an erotic massage at my place. I also knew he escorts (he’s on RentMen) but contacted him for a massage on a different website hence it was a different rate also. Things flowed naturally - we ended up making out, grinding, and connecting beyond the massage itself. He was even down to top me (though it didn’t end up happening), and we ended up lying together, talking, and just being. It felt real. Comfortable. Honestly, it was the most “seen” I’ve felt by someone in NYC in a long time - definitely non-platonically.
At one point, while we were just lying together, he asked: “Why do you need to pay?”
I brushed it off. I wasn’t ready to unpack the reality of my dating life with him. The truth is: dating here has been non-existent for me. Literally zero dates. Hookups? Sure, but mostly disappointing - disconnected, drugged-out, disinterested, transactional. I’m more of a 1:1, slow, sensual kind of guy, and NYC’s scene feels like a conveyor belt of fast, flaky sex. Honestly, it’s been some of the worst sex of my life.
Instead of explaining all that, I just said: “It’s hard to find someone who can handle me.” He looked confused and said: “Someone tall, built, with a big dick like you? You’ll be fine.” But I don’t feel fine. That comment sat with me.
He also did go down on me, even though he identifies as straight. I didn’t overthink it in the moment, but it left me wondering.
I followed up a week later, and he was receptive. He messaged back quickly (again, rare in NYC), and was down to meet again. But then he said:
“No rush bro. But if I looked like you, I wouldn’t pay.”
That comment threw me. Not because I’m against paying as money isn’t the issue. What messed with my head is: what does it mean if the only way I’ve ever felt this kind of presence, softness, and intimacy is through a paid experience?
Was it him?
Was it just my starvation for connection finally getting fed?
Am I overthinking all of it?
I’ve never hired an escort before (just spa massages with HE's usually, although I have been topped there too sometimes lol) so I don’t know what’s “normal.” I do wonder if I should book someone else, maybe try a “boyfriend experience,” since I’ve never even come close to having a real relationship. Maybe I just need to get it out of my system.
Because here’s the thing:
In that space, with him, I melted.
I was soft, present, sensual, alive.
I liked who I was in that moment.
And that version of me doesn’t come out on Grindr, Feeld, Scruff, Hinge, Tinder or even at gay dancing or sex parties. Not even close. It was WAY better (in terms of that satisfaction and 'whole' feeling) than any therapy I've ever had also.
So I guess my question is:
Is it worth continuing down this road?
Will I be paying for intimacy forever?
And why did a paid interaction feel more real than all the “free” ones I’ve had?
Would appreciate any perspectives, especially from those who’ve navigated this before.

Because accepting my current state is very hard, being completely honest here, and therapy really isn't helping at all in this regard. But I totally get what you are saying and it is correct.

"Look at your previous threads on the exact same topic." - I did and the pointers provided I have done at this point, extensively. 
...so your next step is just live life and see what happens? That is what I did for 10 years, and clearly this didn't work, so you are saying do another 10 years of this. That sounds like a sure way to continue to fail. 
I am still seeing this new therapist weekly, nothing useful has come of it just yet. We are back to 'its not you, its them' which I am fed up of hearing in therapy quite frankly, but I also don't imagine things changing in therapy anymore. Hence I sought an alternative through the massage experience (again, not expecting it to become a sexual experience) just to feel something a bit different before I went completely crazy. FWIW at least this experience 'shook me' in some way, more than I can say any therapy has.

Everyone I know who's young and single and gay living in NYC says dating is near impossible here. Most blame it on the hook-up culture, which has grown exponentially with the ease of meeting from apps. "Anonymity" is now a desirable feature of online hook ups that wraps the whole experience into an immediate environment of emotional emptiness. Share two photos / meet / fuck / leave.  Most guys don't even share their name anymore, let alone open up their souls to a vulnerability that begs to see if their partner is nurturing enough to hang on to... None of these young guys ever wants someone to see who they really are. It disrupts the glamor of their Instagram feed.

I recently hired a masseur to come over for an erotic massage at my place. I also knew he escorts (he’s on RentMen) but contacted him for a massage on a different website hence it was a different rate also. Things flowed naturally - we ended up making out, grinding, and connecting beyond the massage itself. He was even down to top me (though it didn’t end up happening), and we ended up lying together, talking, and just being. It felt real. Comfortable. Honestly, it was the most “seen” I’ve felt by someone in NYC in a long time - definitely non-platonically.
At one point, while we were just lying together, he asked: “Why do you need to pay?”
I brushed it off. I wasn’t ready to unpack the reality of my dating life with him. The truth is: dating here has been non-existent for me. Literally zero dates. Hookups? Sure, but mostly disappointing - disconnected, drugged-out, disinterested, transactional. I’m more of a 1:1, slow, sensual kind of guy, and NYC’s scene feels like a conveyor belt of fast, flaky sex. Honestly, it’s been some of the worst sex of my life.
Instead of explaining all that, I just said: “It’s hard to find someone who can handle me.” He looked confused and said: “Someone tall, built, with a big dick like you? You’ll be fine.” But I don’t feel fine. That comment sat with me.
He also did go down on me, even though he identifies as straight. I didn’t overthink it in the moment, but it left me wondering.
I followed up a week later, and he was receptive. He messaged back quickly (again, rare in NYC), and was down to meet again. But then he said:
“No rush bro. But if I looked like you, I wouldn’t pay.”
That comment threw me. Not because I’m against paying as money isn’t the issue. What messed with my head is: what does it mean if the only way I’ve ever felt this kind of presence, softness, and intimacy is through a paid experience?
Was it him?
Was it just my starvation for connection finally getting fed?
Am I overthinking all of it?
I’ve never hired an escort before (just spa massages with HE's usually, although I have been topped there too sometimes lol) so I don’t know what’s “normal.” I do wonder if I should book someone else, maybe try a “boyfriend experience,” since I’ve never even come close to having a real relationship. Maybe I just need to get it out of my system.
Because here’s the thing:
In that space, with him, I melted.
I was soft, present, sensual, alive.
I liked who I was in that moment.
And that version of me doesn’t come out on Grindr, Feeld, Scruff, Hinge, Tinder or even at gay dancing or sex parties. Not even close. It was WAY better (in terms of that satisfaction and 'whole' feeling) than any therapy I've ever had also.
So I guess my question is:
Is it worth continuing down this road?
Will I be paying for intimacy forever?
And why did a paid interaction feel more real than all the “free” ones I’ve had?
Would appreciate any perspectives, especially from those who’ve navigated this before.

I'm not sure if you are being sarcastic or not, but this the crux of my issues. No one seems to date me. I get hookups, but not dates. If I could date someone, and meet them before hooking up, I don't think I would be having this discussion. 
You say stop using apps to meet men. But men do not 'meet' me otherwise. Parties, etc all also lead to nothing.
You say stop only screening for tops/bottoms. I don't. I only filter radius and even that is pretty broad. 
You say stop referencing dick size. I don't. I only quoted what the masseur said, not expecting it to blow up as it did in the thread.

Walk up and ask HIM.  Even if 99 say No, 1 will say Yes.  Don't wait to be pursued.  The Constitution guarantees every citizen the right to Pursuit of Happiness, but you must do the pursuing!
This used to happen to me, too.  Men on apps would be begging to come over and have sex with me.  I finally decided to make my standard reply: "I'll be at XX bar tomorrow night at 10pm, if you want to meet me there".  9 out of 10 flaked.  But 1 showed up... And that's a date.  Have the will power to keep your legs closed until after meeting him in public first.  The 1 out of 10, or 1 out of 100, who show up is what is it is.  In the meantime, you're out of the house and off your telephone enjoying the wonderful city in which you live.

I hook up a fair amount in SF/Oakland. I have about ten fuck buds, with varying frequencies of meetings. I occasionally try out new guys, and let older connections go when the spark has faded for one of us.
 
Occasionally I meet with a new guy who is emotionally vacant. But usually I am able to draw out emotional connection by being confident, vulnerable, and persistent in getting a guy to let loose. I typically try to get a sense of the other guy’s fantasies so I can see if we’re compatible. 
 
I don’t know if that’s helpful. It’s difficult to be vulnerable oneself if the other guy is guarded. 

Interesting conversation,  thanks for taking the time to discuss.   As a provider,  I've had some very "real"  intimacy with my clients.   I think it is more about the connection between people than whether one pays or not.   I really make an effort to convey certain things during the time spent.   I think if a provider doesn't care about the experience of his client,  he shouldn't be an escort or provider.    I'd encourage you to consider exploring this.   Whether you pay or not is between both of you.   Don't set up expectations,  but enjoy the experience with an open mind.     You never know what you will find out there.   Be optimistic,  but realistic.

Society doesn't allow things to be purely chemistry based though. I have heard so many stories (of particularly people of colour) being 'liked' and there being 'chemistry' with a man, but he cannot socially integrate them so will partner up with his clone, and keep the other guy on the side. If we lived in world where people were true to chemistry, I don't think we would have the mess we currently do. 

I recently hired a masseur to come over for an erotic massage at my place. I also knew he escorts (he’s on RentMen) but contacted him for a massage on a different website hence it was a different rate also. Things flowed naturally - we ended up making out, grinding, and connecting beyond the massage itself. He was even down to top me (though it didn’t end up happening), and we ended up lying together, talking, and just being. It felt real. Comfortable. Honestly, it was the most “seen” I’ve felt by someone in NYC in a long time - definitely non-platonically.
At one point, while we were just lying together, he asked: “Why do you need to pay?”
I brushed it off. I wasn’t ready to unpack the reality of my dating life with him. The truth is: dating here has been non-existent for me. Literally zero dates. Hookups? Sure, but mostly disappointing - disconnected, drugged-out, disinterested, transactional. I’m more of a 1:1, slow, sensual kind of guy, and NYC’s scene feels like a conveyor belt of fast, flaky sex. Honestly, it’s been some of the worst sex of my life.
Instead of explaining all that, I just said: “It’s hard to find someone who can handle me.” He looked confused and said: “Someone tall, built, with a big dick like you? You’ll be fine.” But I don’t feel fine. That comment sat with me.
He also did go down on me, even though he identifies as straight. I didn’t overthink it in the moment, but it left me wondering.
I followed up a week later, and he was receptive. He messaged back quickly (again, rare in NYC), and was down to meet again. But then he said:
“No rush bro. But if I looked like you, I wouldn’t pay.”
That comment threw me. Not because I’m against paying as money isn’t the issue. What messed with my head is: what does it mean if the only way I’ve ever felt this kind of presence, softness, and intimacy is through a paid experience?
Was it him?
Was it just my starvation for connection finally getting fed?
Am I overthinking all of it?
I’ve never hired an escort before (just spa massages with HE's usually, although I have been topped there too sometimes lol) so I don’t know what’s “normal.” I do wonder if I should book someone else, maybe try a “boyfriend experience,” since I’ve never even come close to having a real relationship. Maybe I just need to get it out of my system.
Because here’s the thing:
In that space, with him, I melted.
I was soft, present, sensual, alive.
I liked who I was in that moment.
And that version of me doesn’t come out on Grindr, Feeld, Scruff, Hinge, Tinder or even at gay dancing or sex parties. Not even close. It was WAY better (in terms of that satisfaction and 'whole' feeling) than any therapy I've ever had also.
So I guess my question is:
Is it worth continuing down this road?
Will I be paying for intimacy forever?
And why did a paid interaction feel more real than all the “free” ones I’ve had?
Would appreciate any perspectives, especially from those who’ve navigated this before.

I did consider it but I'm not sure I could do it. 
I'm very much wired for a 1:1 sensual intimate experience, with someone I am attracted to, so I'm not sure I could satisfy someone I am not into at all. And I say this because I've had (free) hookups with guys I've not been into and never felt good about it after. 
Plenty of tall handsome gay tall hung men are on these apps, so I guess they are struggling. Just because someone has these attributes, doesn't mean they will find a match, infact, sometimes the 'more boxes you tick' the harder it is to find a match because the pool is smaller to match you if that makes sense? I have an acquaintance - tall, white, muscled, high IG following / social, etc, can't find a relationship, because he is a bottom, and tops tend to seek shorter bottoms for example.

You seem to have a fixed mindset of how you see things and are quoting things to suit your own narrative. 
What you 'quoted' were things the masseur said to me, not things I claimed.
Comparing me to someone with illness, etc, shows m clearly where your mindset is at. 'You don't have that obstacle' clearly shows me you lack empathy and don't understand the situation I am in. EVERYONE is dealing with their set of cards. While yes, I have privilege in some regards, this doesn't automatically mean anything and you are delusional to think so. It is funny when I claim I 'shouldn't' have issues, then I am shut down, and then you literally say the same thing comparing me to someone disabled. Go look at yourself. 
I have tried to reason with you, but you clearly have no interest in considering other opinions or keep an open mind, so I request you to stop responding to my threads as I wi;l not be responding to your posts anymore.