lseactuary90

Anyone been to Mike?

FWIW, I agree with all you are saying, hence I continue to be as I am, and do what I can. Ultimately, the question is: if someone is not even the slightest bit invested or interested in you (beyond sex) and you do not get these dating opportunities (regardless of reason here, we can probably spend days debating race and other things and still not get to the bottom of it, because everyone is different, has different 'preferences' and there is no real way of knowing what everyone wants), then there isn't much you can do. You can "force" someone to "like you" or "invest time in you". This is the question I am left with in therapy. We can basically continue to optimise how we look, work on ourselves, pick up hobbies, make friends, increase exposure through different events and people, and so on, but still if nothing lands (in a romantic setting), then you are stuck. This is where I'm at basically. Which ultimately takes me back to the thread's question - will I have to "pay" for intimacy because one will voluntarily give this experience to me? Do I spend countless more years "trying" and what happens if I turn 100 and it never happens for me? Do I want to look back and go "well I tried for 100 years and it never worked out" or do I want to try and at least experience something in my youth while I can?

I'm not saying *all*. I literally met someone the other day who was white who only dates black men for example. My point was I don't seem to fit someones "box" for what they want in a partnership (at least not yet) so I'm at best getting the hookup. I would say, I find white guys the most open though, and POC's the most closed (either they only want their own race or a white opposite).

This is a nuanced subject, so I will try and share my thoughts. With hookups - the 'filter' is different. Are you hot? Do you fit what they are looking for (top, bottom etc). Guys tend to be more uninhibited. There is also this unspoken rule of 'this is what it is' so there is no 'pressure' for it to go any further. Dating is more nuanced. When someone is looking for a life partner, I imagine they are looking for a 'type' of guy. I have friends (all races) who literally told me that they felt coming out was hard, so dating the 'same race' basically helped them 'prove it was worth it' to their family. In my experience, people are attracted to what they are familiar with, so likely stick to someone who looks like someone they knew/know (which makes sense). There are also external prejudices e.g. 'would he fit in with my friends' / 'would he fit in with my family', etc that are made based on your appearance and therefore while they may 'like you as a person', you may not 'fit their world'. This, btw, doesn't need to be limited to race, it could be other attributes too. This also then explains who I 'attract' - another 'suppressed' single person of colour (but often not hot, as if they are, they are 'taken' by someone), partnered (white/latino) guys (since they are 'taken' they have nothing to 'loose'), much older guys (I'm talking 20+ year age gap / because by that point in their life they have shedded much of the social conditioning they grew up with), out of shape guys (probably being rejected a lot so still try and shoot their shot with me) or visitors (who are looking to 'try something new'). None of these are 'actual' matches for me as a partner. In my particular case, I was born/raised in the West, so I speak very clear English (on the phone most people think I'm 'white'). I now live in the US. But physically I am mixed so I look 'exotic' which is why I'm placed in the 'hot / try this' bucket, but guys probably don't imagine 'settling down' with me as I don't fit what they consider 'romance material' (even though I am actually pretty romantic and soft at heart). I would say, as the years have gone by, it is better. Guys become more exposed (work, social media and otherwise) and are more 'accepting' of other cultures, looks etc. But I'm also in my mid 30s, so a lot of guys are partnered up and/or traumatised by their ex and only looking for fun now, which makes things harder.

I'm commenting as he has almost never been single. So I don't think he is qualified to make these statements. I know because I've spoken to him before. The race was just an example. Similar to a rich person saying 'money isn't important' while looking at a poor person. That doesn't help the poor person at all and is just performative at best.

I can't stand videos like this, it is full of “self-love influencer” energy. Its so easy to say this kinda stuff when you are married/partnered and looking at others (see his giant ring?). If he was perpetually single, and then reacting this way, then I'm listening. Its like a white women talking about black racism when she doesn't experience it at all or even been through even an ounce it. Empathy is one thing, living with it is another.

The question I wonder is where are they meeting their partner 'in real life' because a lot of people I speak to are still meeting on apps, IG, or the like. They may connect again in person (through a party, mutual friend etc) but I've rarely head the story 'oh we met at a sports club' (unless both were there for like 5+ years) so it seems strange. I'm more than open to going to in person places and connecting, but people still flake, even harder than apps tbh. I would correct that statement to say 'many who wanted a partner found one'. A partner is not something on a shelf you check out. I always wanted a partner and never found one, and I know dozens of men who also didn't. Just because you 'wanted something' doesn't mean it automatically happens. It depends on other factors like where you live, supply/demand, and we all know the gay racism and 'hierarchies' in certain places that still exist too. Also, countless people I know are unhappy/settled in relationships but can't 'get out' and have no incentive (except for those singles you mentioned, who agree, carry baggage). This makes it even harder for someone like me, who always wanted a partner but never found one (wasn't even given a chance) and now I find myself in this situation. Just seems unfair, hence the title of this thread i.e. do I have to keep paying basically because I'm not sure what else I can even do at this stage to get the consistent kind of intimacy I am looking for.

I don't want to be someone who 'jumps ship' when things get tough, without working through whatever it is that is not working. IMO the best time to leave is when you feel you have nothing left to learn in the place, not when things are tough and you are probably growing/evolving in some way.

I'm not sure if you are being sarcastic or not, but this the crux of my issues. No one seems to date me. I get hookups, but not dates. If I could date someone, and meet them before hooking up, I don't think I would be having this discussion. You say stop using apps to meet men. But men do not 'meet' me otherwise. Parties, etc all also lead to nothing. You say stop only screening for tops/bottoms. I don't. I only filter radius and even that is pretty broad. You say stop referencing dick size. I don't. I only quoted what the masseur said, not expecting it to blow up as it did in the thread.

Yup I shared this with my current therapist... and he diverted me to talking about 'values'.

Damn. A lot of this hit home. Thank for doing this and sharing it with me. I am very interested in the non-paid contexts that could provide a more wholesome experience that I am looking for. I did try MMX but it was the same thing - flakey guys just looking for sex with me, not actually looking to connect. I did research those 'alternative spaces' you mentioned above but I couldn't find much (many are closed) so I was unsure what to try, but am definitely open to trying. Does ChatGPT say what I am looking for is even possible in NY though? I think the comment about the ecosystem made a lot of sense, because this problem literally goes away when I go to Mexico or Turkey for example, but unfortunately I just don't live there. That said, I was actually seriously thinking to hire someone for a BF experience, and tell them to return every week for a month or so. I wonder if actually 'breaking the cycle' (even if paid) will help me learn a new way of thinking and being and a new loop altogether vs just hooking up more and more and remaining in that cycle if that makes sense. A lot of the escorts I like are visiting which makes this tricky, but yeah, I am considering it.

Not sure if this is a joke or not, but I've literally done this, and guys just flake.

Already done this. Same issues persist.

I can imagine in a hetro world why that would be a puzzle, but given the way dating/relationships are now (something like 2/3rd of men below 30 are single, and the way the apps only really cater to the top x% of men etc) would you really be surprised anymore? Even someone like Chris Evans found his wife outside of the US, and after 40. Just saying even Captain America outsourced. lol In the gay world, its more complex, people come out at different times, and there are other variables (e.g. not everyone lives in a huge city, etc). Entitlement is bad either way, hetro or homo.

I did actually consider this, and 3 escorts got 'freaked out' with this ask lol. So my search continues. Then I tried mid-way like coming over, chatting, cuddles, but no sex, but then... that almost always leads to sex. 😕 (not escorts, I mean normal guys) I have no issues going out with friends or social interactions that don't involve sex etc though.

They were having sex already, that is what the concern was. But yes, if they were just dating, that would have been different completely.

I think drawing blanket statements is dangerous as everyone's life is different. I know happy couples who met in college, I know happy couples who met after 40. I know sad couples who met in college, I know sad couples who met after 40. And everything in between. Just like attraction is not 'linear', someones life journey is not linear either. Someone who considers not having a committed relationship by 35 a red flag - without asking why / making assumptions - is a red flag to me. Someone who has been in relationship after relationship and made the same mistake over and over again is better? I don't think so. Someone who has had a difficult life and therefore no bandwidth for a relationship imo would be 10x better than someone who has hurt 100 people along the way with their selfish pursuits. You see what I mean? Also what is considered a relationship? Have you read Reddit? Someone calls someone their boyfriend, and learns 9 months later they do not bottom, I wonder what they have been doing 9 months to consider eachother boyfriends, yet they don't even know eachothers basic sexual preferences. If this is considered a 'relationship' then sure, I'm glad I've not engaged in one so far. I agree with your statement that people are messy and there are always going to be things you don't like. However, it boils down to *both* of you wanting to give eachother a chance. No relationship is a one way street. FWIW, I never 'filtered' anyone out who has relationship experience and/or a past. I only filter those emotionally unavailable - partnered or otherwise.

So this is where I disagree. I know a lot of these people, a lot are cheating, on these apps, unhappy but can't get out etc. How many times have you heard 2 people break up because one of them was a narcissistic person or similar (when do you ever hear 'oh we broke up because we are both good people but just grew apart')? As you said, new crop will appear in a few years, but they are divorcing for a reason, just saying.

DM'd you, its a bit unique, so prefer to keep it off public forums for now.

Thanks for sharing! I've had pieces of this come out before (with more connected hookups I've had in the past) but its not sustained as long as it did this time (or maybe with time I'm better at identifying it also since its not 'new'). I do 100% think this is the 'version' the world needs to see. What I can't wrap my head around is what I did differently. From a 'physical' perspective, I was doing the same thing (infact I remember him shaking initially when massaging me which was cute lol), but the payment I think over-rode that 'intimidation feeling' several men get when sleeping with me (I'm not boasting, but I have been told this to my face) and then since the walls were broken we were able to connect beyond that. So therefore this 'version' came out, because it was allowed to also come out i.e. get reciprocated and met. I don't think I was a completely different person, I was being myself, but just more came out because there was an opportunity/container for it. This is what relationships are for... but alas.

Do you mean like this? https://www.droshea.com/social-skills.html If so, I did actually speak to this particular provider, and they said I don't seem to have a social skill issue 😕 so recommended standard therapy which is what I am doing now (or group therapy which I also tried and generally didn't find it helpful). If you have a recommendation, please do share.

I did try dating coaches to help improve my profile, check the messages being sent etc. One refunded in complete bafflement why my profile wasn't attracting better 'leads' and the other just brushed me off with 'it just takes one' comments which clearly wasn't helpful. In another case, he said 'I would date you' (he was being nice not actually offering just to be clear, as I 'spoke well') and then blamed racism also. Open to trying a social coach if you know someone who can help as I'm always open to trying things. I would also add, I do make myself accessible in parties, clubs etc also, where there is no 'profile' per say. It is the same outcome - hookup / number exchange / no reciprocated interest beyond that event or time. I don't know why I even bother tbh. Also, just to put it out there, I've had I think 3 one night sleepovers in my life as a gay man. Nothing else even close to the intimacy I got through the masseur/escort. Its really bad imo. So now I need to earn more money to even hire someone to spend the night? This sounds like a sinking ship.

Appreciate the compliment. Sorry, I should have clarified the 'selection' comment. My understanding is through a hookup, or dating, or both, if they are coming back/you meet again, they are at least interested in you, and then things evolve and then eventually you more formally 'announce' you are boyfriends or the like. In my case, nothing seems to happen on the dating side of things (not even first dates) and hookups tend to just be that i.e one off. I've not been 'selected' in this way (and not also selected someone back as a result) and therefore have nothing to show for myself. If I continue with the same escort, this would be one of my rare [<5] experiences of a repeat [sexual] encounter with the same guy, which also brings up a whole bunch of feelings (i.e. I'm having to pay for a repeat so what does this say about me). The therapist can't find something 'wrong' with me, and therefore deflect a lot because they can't explain my situation (neither can dating coaches). I had the same issue in my hometown before I moved here. As the masseur/escort pointed out, on the surface of things, there is no 'reason' to not be into me (and I don't mean that superficially, I mean there is no massive red flag to be causing this level of rejection and disinterest in me as a person) but yet here we are. I have been through 4 different therapists (3 gay) during my time in NY and all eventually get to the same advice: "its not you". I have sympathy for them too. Check the post above about my 'matches'. That is not something a therapist can tackle really. If my funnel is poor, thats not really something they can help with logically if that makes sense? I am running out of therapists to explore in my network at this stage too and I honestly also don't feel like repeating myself over and over, only to be told exactly the same things. My own 2 cents tells me its systemic racism. There was a powerful video I saw about how dating apps basically tell you your market value in the marketplace you are in (that is not to be confused with the same value being worldwide, as it can change). If you look at the groups interested in me, it is clear I'm towards the bottom end of the spectrum, and this hurts a lot as my skin colour is not something I can change, and I've already done what I can to optimise for everything else. This isn't to say looks only matter, but really, look at the list, and what is realistic option from any of them, even if I am 'willing to compromise'. When I have raised this in therapy (even with my current POC therapist) they 'agree' but again, there are no solutions. If I am not seen as dating / bf / partner material by the population / place I live in, I can't do much about this. Yes, but he is a full time escort, and straight and the only person he has sex with outside of 'work' is a trans person (none of which I have the body parts for lol). In the future though, if I continue down the escort route, and the dude is gay, I will ask as I don't think this is a bad idea at all. This is also probably why he was more oblivious on the state of POC's (especially mixed guys like me) in the gay community and made the comment he did.

Because accepting my current state is very hard, being completely honest here, and therapy really isn't helping at all in this regard. But I totally get what you are saying and it is correct.

Yup I know those people too. They are still 'committed' to someone though.