APPLE1

In case it's not obvious, I am asking from both the client and provider side of the equation. What are the tell tale signs in communication, or pics, or ads that make you say "I am crossing this one off the list," or "I need to proceed with caution and get more info?"

And sometimes I am paying to be SELFISH! in addition to the buildup, sensual touch, teasing, great massage, getting to know one another, and all the other great points made here, sometimes I just want the first 1/2 or 3/4 of our time to be about ME! I don't want to care about, or even hear about someone else being pleased, or moaning with pleasure. I want the hands and body of another discovering, trying, and working exclusively for MY pleasures. If I am in a ME, ME, ME mentality, I find an erotic masseur will accomplish that much better than an escort.

True, although I assume the name gives a fundamentally obvious explanation of what is going on. RENTmen

You obviously closed the deal with the Brazilian, but in the future, if you are worried about "offending" people, just crack the door open. Maybe you already do, but say something like "I haven't had a lot of luck on Grind. I have the best luck finding guys on RentMen." That certainly lets the other one know you are open to payment based arrangements.

I can echo that for my own experience in the Northwest and Midwest. Again, I have never negotiated with a provider on rate. On RentMen (it's the only one I see the point of actually logging into), I frequently have had providers see that I viewed them, and then send me what I assume are stock messages with info and rates. I have a pretty specific type that I look for physically. Looking at the full profile already told me that they weren't "it," so I hadn't messaged them initially. I politely reply back with "thanks, but I am looking for X physically." I would estimate that about 75% of the time I get a response back like "if you can't find what you're looking for exactly, and change your mind, I can see you for $Y" (reduced rate) .

I am assuming when you say "known" and "knowable," you are referring to 'asking price.' If you are talking about actual 'paid price,' I assume that you actually mean to say "assumed" and "assumable." I don't mean to be snide, but unless you're doing books for friends or colleagues, you can only assume that they are being honest and up front with you. We may have different views of humanity, but I believe, even with friends, people often over inflate their personal and business prowess. In my time here, albeit short, I have seen a number posts from providers talk about their rates and negotiations. On the opposite side of the coin, I have seen a number of clients make statements about not willing to pay X to a provider and/or negotiating. What I haven't seen said, or asked, is what clients pay for X service, or what the quoted rate was for X and what negotiations finished out at. Maybe it would be a good topic for a forum? 🤷🏻 And yes, I would assume, some client responses would have over inflated prowess.

@pubic_assistance "... handshakes and smiles in the board room..." but that's really what we are talking about here aren't we? There's no written contract that says "paying $X, will entitle you to A, C, and H." And @Simon Suraci that's one of the key difference from a construction contract. Neither party has a enforceable contract, and therefore, no way to force the other to conform to the agreement. In another posting @Jamie21 said one his clients stated “oh, cash…it’s always cash only for my dealer, my cleaner and my hooker!” That really hits the nail on the head for the the deals clients are making here with providers. That, at least in the US, these deals aren't really above board. I submit that it's implicit to nearly any illegal deal, for most people, to assume that there's room for negotiation in what will be paid and recieved. Is it wrong, or tacky, or cheap, to negotiate with a dealer or a cleaner? I assume some of you are thinking that 'I can't go to a dispensary and negotiate,' but keep in mind, since they are truly legal, there are state remedies if they falsely advertise or misrepresent what they are selling. Likewise, I am sure some people are thinking 'that this is a "personal" and "intimate" service, so it falls outside the bounds of what should be negotiated for.' BUT, I assume providers negotiate with one another. I assume that every threesome ever done was not a 50/50 split. I assume every only fans video ever shot wasn't a 50/50 split. I assume that porn studios negotiate with actors for what they are paying them. Obviously, when it comes right down to it, the adding of photography or a third person makes the act(s) being done no less personal or intimate

I think many people use skin color as one of the major factors in making a prejudgement of socioeconomic status. We would all experience a very different world if we had a colored dot on our nose showing our income. It would significantly affect the customer and provider sides of many, many business relationships, not just this business.

I am not sure I fully understand what distinction will be made between REVIEWS and MASTER THREADS in terms of member responses. Are you saying REVIEWS would strictly be limited to impressions and happenings during an actual meeting? And MASTER THREADS would be more an area for 'I reached out to the provider and he said he charges $500 and doesn't kiss. He was slow to respond, changed his price, and I got the feeling he really only sees younger clients? '

Will providers who are members here be able to list themselves? Obviously it's not a review per se, but certainly some providers have their links with their signature on here, and it would be another form of advertising for them. I can certainly say that I have come across providers on here on other platforms, and had no interest in them. However, after hearing their reponses/views here, I have decided, 'if I am ever in X city, I would reach out to see about setting up a session with him.'

I don't exactly know how to create it, but I would find it helpful to know if a provider was traveling when a member saw them. If I am going to click on LA because I am visiting there next month, it would be nice to know which providers live there all the time, vs providers who traveled through last month and may or not still be there when I visit.

I think cut and uncut are helpful and the 2 terms with the least confusion. In terms of them being graphic, considering that we are on a site that reviews escorts. . . that would seem to set the bar pretty low for what is too graphic to write.

I think you're on the right track with 'less is more' for body hair descriptions. Because it's so relative, I find myself searching for slightly hairy, hairy, and very hairy. Then looking at the pics and making my own judgements on whose level of hair I find attractive.

I can only speak for myself, obviously. Because "to schedule..." started a new paragraph, combined with the black line, I assumed you sent 2 messages in a row. I didn't understand it was 1 long message.

I think leading the response with the website is an excellent idea. Although @Jarrod_Uncut has prices in the ad, I can certainly say in that platform, and others, I have reached out, and the first reply from the provider was 'here's my website. It has more details. If you are still interested Ina meeting after you check it out, message me again.'

Kenno??

Not my preferred order, BUT, I will give kudos to any provider who can read his clients that well!

I will absolutely agree with you on on 1 and 2, and half of 3. In general, I find people lazy and not assertive enough to be up front about many things. He obviously devalued your service. Different values people assign to goods and services is precisely the reason there's a McDonald's less than 1.5 miles from Ocean Prime in Kansas City. Some people value a cheeseburger at $22, and some people reduce its value to $2. I don't see that either restaurant is advertising that they are going out of business, so I have to assume that Kansas City has a enough people at both ends, and middle, of that value scale to support both. Please keep in mind that is not just about food quality and atmosphere either. I don't want any one to feel like I have reduced them a McDonald's cheeseburger. Some people view eating out as wonderful event worthy of a high payment. Others view as a necessary evil because of social engagements and time constraints, and are content to pay the least they can. Assumptions about the how's and why's of people's actions are never so cut and dried. Maybe, he did message 10 others, and maybe, one of them said "$125." Maybe, he was playing a "game" and waiting for you to lower the price. Having potential customers look, question, accept, decline, and give reasons, including made up ones, is integral to sales. I also understand it's probably one of the most, if not THE most unpleasant parts of selling, especially selling one's self. I full well assume that if I listed my house on the market, I would have lookie loos, people who could in no way afford my house, people who were already waiting to hear back on a previous offer, and even people who loved the house, and the price, and the neighborhood, but tell me they just couldn't buy it because the mailbox was the wrong color. I would accept that leaving my house and rearranging my schedule/life, was part of the work I signed up for when I hung the "for sale" sign.

The city of LA settled a major lawsuit over ADA compliant sidewalks back in like 2016. I recall reading at that time it was projected to take over 30 years and a billion dollars to fix the problem. I am assuming with such a large investment, there's some sort of priority repair schedule being implemented. I would reach out to the city's disability department to see where your friend's street lies in the plan, and inquire if an immediate need will move his street up on the list. Home | Department on Disability DISABILITY.LACITY.ORG

I often read criticisms of providers on here for failure of implied specific performance (ie. didn't feel like we were a match, seemed robotic and just going through the motions, couldn't get rock hard, didn't make me feel like he desired me, etc). When a provider says up front he only sees X, or won't see Y, aren't they really just telling us directly they can't give a good performance to X? Would it be better to lie and say they can perform well, or go into a long explanation of 'I am most attracted to X, so if you are Y, I can go through the motions because you paid me.' Along the same lines, should it be the same level of criticism expressed in this topic for a provider who says he's gay, not bi, and therefore doesn't see women? Full disclosure, I have never slept with a woman and never even seen pussy in real life! I don't consider myself sexist though. I mean some of my closest family has even married women. Hell, half of my parents are female! 😉

A mentor from my youth always said, "never lie to your doctor or your lawyer. They are in the best position to help, and they've likely seen and heard much worse!"

Well "Tim" rings a bell from his ad years ago, but I swear it said "Rob" last week. Is that a bad sign in and of itself?

Doctors, dentists, lawyers,.... With healthcare, that is pure semantics. While an individual patient may not have negotiated, if a patient is covered under a health plan, and seeing a participating healthcare provider, the insurance company or the government negotiated the rate ahead of time. And while I am not a big negotiater, I have had crappy dental plans with capped yearly payouts that were low, and I very easily negotiated with the dentist to pay up front the same as the insurance would have paid for covered services. It's certainly not unheard of for lawyers to negotiate rates. I have certainly negotiated legal fees before, AND I wasn't met with shock or indignation by doing so. I think negotiations are driven by both culture and industry standards. Culture is pretty straight forward. Like @Unicorn pointed out, in some parts of the world it's common place, and I think it extends even beyond "where" you are. Anywhere people grow up and/or go through daily life seeing people negotiate almost everything, they come to understand it as a normal every day occurrence. When it comes to negotiating at a car dealership, I think most of us find it normal industry standard. Up until a few years ago, it wasn't "normal" to negotiate a realestate agent commission, but then the US market changed. As I understand, it's become somewhat common place now to negotiate relestate comissions. The other thing that makes negotiations more approachable with car dealers, and realestate agents, is that both are small businesses for all practical purposes. When @Jarrod_Uncut started a recent thread on whether to charge X or Y, there seemed to be a lot of responses from both clients and providers talking about price shaving, fee offers, and counter offers. Obviously providers here are small business, and based on the responses I've read on this site, there are in fact providers who actively engage in negotiations. I am certainly not saying anyone, provider or client, should or shouldn't negotiate. Given my perception of culture and industry standards, I don't feel like offense or indignation is warranted for negotiation or attempted negotiation though. On a completely personal note, I will negotiate with a car dealer, a dentist, and lawyer, but I shop in stores with clear prices, and I applaud providers like @Jamie21 @Jarrod_Uncut, or any other provider who makes it clear what I getting and what I am paying. I will then take it or leave it, but I am not negotiating with a provider.

Amen! I am not hiring a provider for their intellect or social theories. Not that I snap at someone for a little basic idle chit chat, but I look forward to the silence or background music. I spend a lot of my day thinking and responding to people. It's NOT relaxing. On the contrary, it's work and that why they have to pay me to do it! Hell, if it was FUN, I would spend my day doing it for free!

Anyone have experience with Rob? I know he's been around for years and back from a hiatus. Body Renewal by Tim - massage/bodywork in Minneapolis, MN - masseurfinder WWW.MASSEURFINDER.COM I am open to other suggestions as well. I understand from comments here, and my own experience there, pickings are slim, but any insight would be appreciated. FYI - No need to recommend Darren. Been there, done that. We really weren't a match.