Are we becoming too PC?

[nynakedtop]

i resisted posting to this thread for a long time, because i feel as though it is a wheel that keeps getting re-invented many too many times.

 

so i will keep it brief.

 

first off, throwing around the phrase "PC" to demean people who work for social justice is a whole issue in and of itself, but ... if by "too PC" you mean the foregrounding of equality, of taking into consideration the rights of those who are historically marginalized, the taking into consideration the everyday plight(s) of people who are undervalued and oppressed.... of being champions for peace, equality, and justice....

 

then i would say it is impossible to ever be "too PC"

[Kenny]

i resisted posting to this thread for a long time, because i feel as though it is a wheel that keeps getting re-invented many too many times.

 

so i will keep it brief.

 

first off, throwing around the phrase "PC" to demean people who work for social justice is a whole issue in and of itself, but ... if by "too PC" you mean the foregrounding of equality, of taking into consideration the rights of those who are historically marginalized, the taking into consideration the everyday plight(s) of people who are undervalued and oppressed.... of being champions for peace, equality, and justice....

 

then i would say it is impossible to ever be "too PC"

Word!

[bostonman]

I saw it because of a tweet from a Canadian friend who mentioned L'Italiana as an opera that could stand to have its libretto tweaked.

 

I saw a small production once, where during Isabella's big rally aria in Act II, it was sung to the (very) small male chorus of Algerians (not the Italians as written) - the action during the aria was having Taddeo (I think) shave off their beards so they would look more "Italian."

 

Not only was this a huge distraction during the aria, but it occurred to me that it was also offensive on several levels. It surely was not meant to be seen that way, but it might have been better to find another solution.

 

I agree with the general premise that operas such as L'Italiana and Abduction can now seem very anti-Muslim. But I'm not sure what changes would need to be made to make them more acceptable. Clearly it sounds like that solution to amending the Abduction libretto was a huge mistake. I suppose that maybe the ethnic elements could somehow be taken out entirely, and both operas could be more about a battle of the sexes than a battle of cultures...but I dunno.

 

However, I heard that somewhere in the last couple of years there was a production of the Mozart done as if a young girl's fantasy, starting with a collection of dolls and toys in her bedroom. Even I, in reading that, had to wonder what the point would be of a little girl fantasizing about a harem...

[TruHart1]

i resisted posting to this thread for a long time, because i feel as though it is a wheel that keeps getting re-invented many too many times.

 

so i will keep it brief.

 

first off, throwing around the phrase "PC" to demean people who work for social justice is a whole issue in and of itself, but ... if by "too PC" you mean the foregrounding of equality, of taking into consideration the rights of those who are historically marginalized, the taking into consideration the everyday plight(s) of people who are undervalued and oppressed.... of being champions for peace, equality, and justice....

 

then i would say it is impossible to ever be "too PC"

The discussion is not meant to be about demeaning people by "throwing around the phrase "PC"" but about modern viewers' perceptions of established works of art, and whether the older but classic works, here specifically addressing the operas composed by the greats, such as Verdi, Mozart, Rossini, etc. As the OP, I am sorry that I've offended you by using "PC" incorrectly, @nynakedtop, but that was never my intention. My intention was to ask if, in reference to classic operatic or dramatic works, which may have sexist, racist, etc. references written into the libretto or script, we should throw the baby out with the bath water?!!

 

TruHart1

[+ quoththeraven]

The discussion is not meant to be about demeaning people by "throwing around the phrase "PC"" but about modern viewers' perceptions of established works of art, and whether the older but classic works, here specifically addressing the operas composed by the greats, such as Verdi, Mozart, Rossini, etc. As the OP, I am sorry that I've offended you by using "PC" incorrectly, @nynakedtop, but that was never my intention. My intention was to ask if, in reference to classic operatic or dramatic works, which may have sexist, racist, etc. references written into the libretto or script, we should throw the baby out with the bath water?!!

 

TruHart1

But that really amounts to the same thing. It's not surprising to me that women would view Rigoletto differently from men, for example, when its best known aria is all about how fickle women are - a bit rich coming from a well-known womanizer!

 

We all draw lines about what art and artists we will support, and calling the decision to avoid some art because its content doesn't align with one's values "PC" is dismissive. It's even more complicated because Rigoletto was subject to censorship because it was perceived as critical of the Duke, who was based on a contemporary or near-contemporary figure. But for women, most of whom deal with harassment and prejudice regularly, not to want to watch it on stage is self-care, not being PC.

[mike carey]

To me, PC is a synonym for respectful, and mostly claims of things being 'too PC' can be refuted by asking exactly how you can be too respectful. That said, the term has become more widely used as code for all sorts of sentiments. I don't think there is anything wrong with being uncomfortable with usage or themes in music and literature from another day. If anything can be too PC, it could be expecting the works to be changed to reflect today's sensibilities. Even then, using 'too PC' has the undesirable effect of blurring the difference between contemporary respect and a desire for historical revisionism. When looking at old works, context is everything. If it reflects the prevailing views of the world from its time, by all means avoid it if you don't like it, but your discomfort should not be the basis for editing out the things that you don't like. Also, don't underestimate the ability of others to enjoy if for what it is, and even to reflect on the outdated views it shows.

[bostonman]

When looking at old works, context is everything. If it reflects the prevailing views of the world from its time, by all means avoid it if you don't like it, but your discomfort should not be the basis for editing out the things that you don't like. Also, don't underestimate the ability of others to enjoy if for what it is, and even to reflect on the outdated views it shows.

 

Perfectly said.

[TruHart1]

But that really amounts to the same thing. It's not surprising to me that women would view Rigoletto differently from men, for example, when its best known aria is all about how fickle women are - a bit rich coming from a well-known womanizer!

 

We all draw lines about what art and artists we will support, and calling the decision to avoid some art because its content doesn't align with one's values "PC" is dismissive. It's even more complicated because Rigoletto was subject to censorship because it was perceived as critical of the Duke, who was based on a contemporary or near-contemporary figure. But for women, most of whom deal with harassment and prejudice regularly, not to want to watch it on stage is self-care, not being PC.

You have a valid point here, @quoththeraven, but the article you link to here...

Apropos of the main topic:

 

http://www.macleans.ca/culture/should-canadian-opera-fix-mozarts-casual-racism/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

 

I saw it because of a tweet from a Canadian friend who mentioned L'Italiana as an opera that could stand to have its libretto tweaked.

...negatively addresses a recent production of Mozart's Abduction from the Seraglio where, in an attempt to not offend, a full half-hour of new dialog is inserted to correct the racist and sexist views in the original 1782 libretto. Just sayin'! Is that going to far or should all of these "offensive" works of established masterpieces be bowdlerized?

 

TruHart1