Asking for Stats?

[P Gren]

That makes more sense in private dating, but when dealing with a purportedly professional escort, I think most of us expect a far higher level of customer service. Can't these guys save that drama for Grindr, Scruff, or the other regular dating/hookup apps and websites? Who the heck is trying to deal with that mess when hiring? For so many of us, the whole point of hiring is to be able to avoid all of that drama.

 

In any event, as I suggested during our private conversation, this need to ascertain the client's level of attractiveness is the escort's issue, and not the client's. I therefore think that while some clients can follow your advice, the service provider should be the one to say clearly in his ad that he'll be requesting pics and/or stats during the initial text or e-mail conversations. That way, the clients who don't like that can avoid this entire drama at the beginning by just contacting those escorts who don't have such limitations.

 

As an aside, this issue strikes me as if it evinces a bit of a generational shift. Although I'm probably one of the younger client-contributors on this forum, I've been on it and the predecessor site since the very early 2000s. It seems to me that historically, the most highly regarded escorts typically didn't engage in this parsing of clients, but instead treated their M4M escorting business as open to all guys so long as the basic hygiene and safety requirements were meet. I get the impression that this newer generation of escorts comes to the table with an entirely different set of expectations and business practices. I'm not certain yet whether that's good or bad as a whole, but change is constant, as the saying goes.

Why are you making this about the escort? The client has an issue - not providing stats. And the client can deal with it simply and clearly with saying upfront he won't be providing stats. No drama.

[Strafe13]

Why are you making this about the escort? The client has an issue - not providing stats. And the client can deal with it simply and clearly with saying upfront he won't be providing stats. No drama.

 

Because it's the escort's policy, not the client's. It also happens to be a policy that deviates from the norm. It's been my experience and that of most posters (both clients and escorts) as expressed in these kinds of threads over the years, that the vast majority of escorts don't ask for stats and pics of clients. Why would clients prepare and utilize your proposed "I don't provide stats/pics" disclaimer as a standard in their initiatory communications with escorts, when it's rarely even applicable? It would likely only make them look paranoid, high maintenance, or "off" to most escorts who don't give a crap about stats/pics anyway.

 

If an escort is going to institute this kind of policy, and he really believes there's nothing wrong with it and that it should be standard or unremarkable, then he should have no problem listing it outright in his ad so as to spare clients from requests that they might deem offensive at worst, or tacky and classless at best. Your strong reaction suggests that you think it would look bad to list such a policy in an escort's ad. If this is so, then isn't it possible that the policy is not as benign as you've made it out to be?

 

This reminds me of the debate that pops up in the forum every year or so about escorts who engage in racial discrimination against certain clients. There are always defenders who say that the discriminated against client is too sensitive and should just be glad that he found out before the appointment. As to the 2nd point, fair enough. But when these defenders are asked why the racist escorts don't just state their racial exclusions upfront in their ads so as to avoid the inevitable confrontation (be it in-person or by text/e-mails/phone calls) and the client's resulting offense and/or hurt feelings, they immediately reject that as a reasonable solution. I'm not trying to equate racial discrimination to this stats/pics issue, but I think the similar reluctance to have the escort list the offending policy* in his ad reveals something about how we subconsciously know that the policy may not be so wonderful, and that the offended clients may not be just overly sensitive drama queens.

 

*I say "offending policy" here only to describe the stats/pics policy that's the subject of this discussion. I don't mean to say that the policy of asking clients for their stats and/or pics is inherently offensive, as is one that categorically excludes potential customers on the basis of race or ethnicity.

Edited December 20, 2017 by Strafe13

[+ José Soplanucas]

http://68.media.tumblr.com/ba9d7fa0da7eedc1cb298d87a05ede52/tumblr_og67dcRBz61u6n38po1_250.gif

HE ASKED FOR MY STAAAAAAAAATS!!! HOW DID HE DAAAAAAAAARE!!!!

[Populist Fury]

Those Soraya gifs never get old <333

 

I still don't get why clients get so offended when escorts want to know some minor info (like stats) about them, but w/e. Everyone's entitled to like/not like certain things, I guess.... I personally like it when I'm asked, & when I'm not, I volunteer the info anyway. Open & honest communication is key for me. Maybe that's why I haven't really had a bad experience?????

[+ José Soplanucas]

Those Soraya gifs never get old <333

 

I still don't get why clients get so offended when escorts want to know some minor info (like stats) about them, but w/e. Everyone's entitled to like/not like certain things, I guess.... I personally like it when I'm asked, & when I'm not, I volunteer the info anyway. Open & honest communication is key for me. Maybe that's why I haven't really had a bad experience yet?????

 

I do get it, and it is not my thing but I understand why someone would feel that way. Even if I did not understand, I would be fine with anyone feeling that way. What I find entertaining is when someone wants to make policy out of his own preferences.

[Deadlift1]

I hate when the passive aggressive shit hits the fan in here. Especially the snarky comments thrown in by the incredibly weak who would never have the guts to say in person.

[P Gren]

I hate when the passive aggressive shit hits the fan in here. Especially the snarky comments thrown in by the incredibly weak who would never have the guts to say in person.

Yes, some posters are passive aggressive and there is blaming rather than taking personal responsibility. I don't think name calling is ever a good idea though.

[Pulgasari1991]

Why would clients prepare and utilize your proposed "I don't provide stats/pics" disclaimer as a standard in their initiatory communications with escorts, when it's rarely even applicable?

Clients would, if we're speaking of clients feeling offended by the question itself.

One asking for stats/pics doesn't automatically imply that there are particular criteria to be met; it can well be just genuine curiosity. Willing to give stats/pics, that's fine; unwilling to, it's still fine. But, if one gets irreversibly offended at the question alone, maybe it's better if he prevents that from the beginning.

[Strafe13]

Clients would, if we're speaking of clients feeling offended by the question itself.

One asking for stats/pics doesn't automatically imply that there are particular criteria to be met; it can well be just genuine curiosity. Willing to give stats/pics, that's fine; unwilling to, it's still fine. But, if one gets irreversibly offended at the question alone, maybe it's better if he prevents that from the beginning.

 

I think we agree on some points but I'm not quite sure due to the way you've expressed them, so allow me to clarify what I view as common ground from the points I can extrapolate from your post.

 

I agree with you to the extent that you're saying that simply asking for stats and/or a pic doesn't necessarily mean that the escort uses that to see if the client meets his personal attraction criteria. I respectfully disagree to the extent that you may be saying that it's unreasonable for a client to view the request as potentially implying that the escort uses that to judge clients in such a fashion. In regular online dating, that is the main, if not only, reason why prospective dates ask for such info, so it's not irrational for a client to think that the escort seeks the info for the same reason, even if that's not the case.

 

Someone had asked earlier for a suggestion on how an escort could acquire the information in a way that acknowledges the client's discomfort and sets their minds at ease. I couldn't think of it at the time, but maybe one way is for the escort to explain at the outset, either in his ad when he lists the policy, or when he first asks the client, that he seeks the info for reasons completely unrelated to the judgment or discretion issues that may cause such clients pause. In addition, for younger more tech savvy clients who're adept with smartphones, perhaps they could send a pic to the escort using the SnapChat app, which deletes pics & messages after the conversations end. If I recall correctly, one of the earliest posters on this thread recounted one horrific way where, in a very curt response to the initial client contact, the escort just bluntly asked for stats, occupation, and maybe a pic too. That sounds like a terrible business practice, and also reflects poorly on the escort's decorum. It's just incredibly tacky and insensitive. This is supposed to be an intimate professional service, is it not?

 

I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with suggesting that a client issue a disclaimer in his initial contact telling escorts that he doesn't provide pics or stats. It just strikes me as impractical for two reasons: 1) since the pics/stats request is still relatively rare amongst escorts, it might come across as bizarre; and 2) as a general matter, businesses or service providers are the ones to inform the clientele of their policies, particularly when it's a deviation from the norm. Moreover, if the policy is meant to apply across the board rather than only in specific instances, I'd think that the ad meant to attract clients would be the most natural place to disclose such a universal policy in an efficient manner, instead of doing so for every single first contact with the client.

 

The idea that a client should prophylactically tell all potential escort hires that he refuses to comply with a policy that may not even exist, and most escorts likely don't even use, just sounds so strange to me. It seems so much simpler to have the escort who demands stats/pics say so in his ad, and that way those clients who are uncomfortable with it for whatever reason, can avoid those escorts or still choose to engage with them and address that issue.

 

To be clear, I've never said I was offended by the stats/pic request (as much as I find it to be weird and out-of-place in the professional escorting field). In fact, I've met with some escorts who've asked for that, and despite my initial misgivings, it wasn't that big of a deal. My point is only that irrespective of whatever judgment some may have as to the sensitivities/concerns of some clients who don't want to disclose that, it seems so obvious to me that a substantial portion of clients would have some issue with such requests. That's why I don't think it's a coincidence that the historical norm, at least among the best, most highly regarded and well-reviewed M4M professional escorts, has been to not ask for such info. Hence, with respect to the minority of escorts who have such a policy, I'm surprised they don't have a better way of broaching the subject in a way to alleviate those clients' reservations, so as to broaden their clientele base.

 

In closing (cuz I've spent way too much time on this thread), I'll say this. There's no absolute right or wrong here, and if younger escorts seem to be establishing a new trend, then so long as the business model works well, then more power to them. I also hope that those clients who fear or dislike such disclosure find a way to overcome it or at least reach a happy compromise on the matter, so that they can enjoy the broadest variety of professional M4M escorts. There are some really great escorts out there, some of whom may have similar policies, including two of my more recent (and really, really good) hires. Had I just excluded those two because the stats/pic and deposit requests struck me as strange and a bit invasive, I would have missed out on some of the greatest intimate experiences of my life. Sometimes risks yield great rewards.

 

Good day, gentlemen.

[coriolis888]

 

snip

 

There's no absolute right or wrong here, and if younger escorts seem to be establishing a new trend, then so long as the business model works well, then more power to them.

I also hope that those clients who fear or dislike such disclosure find a way to overcome it or at least reach a happy compromise on the matter, so that they can enjoy the broadest variety of professional M4M escorts.

 

There are some really great escorts out there, some of whom may have similar policies, including two of my more recent (and really, really good) hires. Had I just excluded those two because the stats/pic and deposit requests struck me as strange and a bit invasive, I would have missed out on some of the greatest intimate experiences of my life. Sometimes risks yield great rewards.

 

 

You wrote an exemplary summary of this thread.

 

My only rebuttal to your summary is that there is no mention of the client who works in a high profile profession who voluntarily releases his stats and photo in a sex for hire internet transaction.

 

If the client information and photo were abused, it is not difficult to envision the devastation to the client and to his profession and to his status in the community.

 

By way of example, just look at the current wave of sex accusations against politicians and entertainment executives that occurred decades ago.

 

I can understand if clients have no issue with releasing their private information and photo. However, there still is that segment of the gay client community that is vulnerable but still wish to pursue meeting escorts.

 

The old system of not asking for stats and a photo worked fine for most people. There is a proverb that goes - " if it ain't broke, don't fix it"

[Strafe13]

You wrote an exemplary summary of this thread.

 

My only rebuttal to your summary is that there is no mention of the client who works in a high profile profession who voluntarily releases his stats and photo in a sex for hire internet transaction.

 

If the client information and photo were abused, it is not difficult to envision the devastation to the client and to his profession and to his status in the community.

 

By way of example, just look at the current wave of sex accusations against politicians and entertainment executives that occurred decades ago.

 

I can understand if clients have no issue with releasing their private information and photo. However, there still is that segment of the gay client community that is vulnerable but still wish to pursue meeting escorts.

 

The old system of not asking for stats and a photo worked fine for most people. There is a proverb that goes - " if it ain't broke, don't fix it"

 

Thanks. I hadn't really delved into the discretion/privacy aspect as it relates to clients' professional and social lives, but I think you made some really good points on this topic.

 

Like I said earlier, the traditional norm that professional escorts not ask clients for stats/pics, or anything else akin to what you'd expect from regular non-professional meet-ups, developed for a host of really good reasons. The implication expressed by some on this thread (and also via private conversations) that it's just the clients who have the "issue" and who're being irrational or hyper-sensitive by expressing reticence to go along with these relatively new and still rare policies, is somewhat disconnected from history and still present-day reality. These clients have legitimate concerns and feelings, and I think the best escorts recognize that and know how to avoid triggering them, or they can and will ably mitigate the potential fallout.

[Deadlift1]

cuz I've spent way too much time on this thread

 

i'll say!

[Strafe13]

i'll say!

 

I love participating in this forum and engaging with fellow members, and I try to always do so in a respectful manner, even if I sometimes disagree with some folk. But thanks for your contribution to the discussion.

[MikeBiDude]

I love participating in this forum and engaging with fellow members, and I try to always do so in a respectful manner, even if I sometimes disagree with some folk. But thanks for your contribution to the discussion.

Yes, but maybe review this thread in the lounge

https://www.companyofmen.org/threads/an-overall-suggestion-no-more-novels.131743/

[Strafe13]

Yes, but maybe review this thread in the lounge

https://www.companyofmen.org/threads/an-overall-suggestion-no-more-novels.131743/

 

That was a fun, lighthearted read. The clapbacks to the original poster were rather funny.

[Strafe13]

I love participating in this forum and engaging with fellow members, and I try to always do so in a respectful manner, even if I sometimes disagree with some folk. But thanks for your contribution to the discussion.

 

I realize now that I should have been able to take some lighthearted ribbing much better than this, @Deadlift1. That's what I get for responding at the end of a 10-hour workday. Sorry for overreacting.

[Gadfly22]

You wrote an exemplary summary of this thread.

 

Good summary but I think a better and simpler one comes from earlier in @Strafe13's post:

 

It's just incredibly tacky

 

Said with tongue planted firmly in cheek! Nothing more offensive to my gay sensibilities than bad taste!

[LADoug1]

I guess some escorts have likes and dislikes when it comes to a client’s appearance. Maybe asking for stats is a way to ensure they will be into the session. In my opinion these are new or unseasoned escorts who I’d be wary of and probably wouldn’t hire. They might have too many limits that they either don’t know and/or don’t mention. Red flag. It could ruin the session.

[Pulgasari1991]

If I recall correctly, one of the earliest posters on this thread recounted one horrific way where, in a very curt response to the initial client contact, the escort just bluntly asked for stats, occupation, and maybe a pic too. That sounds like a terrible business practice, and also reflects poorly on the escort's decorum. It's just incredibly tacky and insensitive. This is supposed to be an intimate professional service, is it not?

Just wanted to point out that, while I grasp the idea of that "Grinder mentality" and it's definitely not my thing, when I was looking for tuts/tips on escorting many guides suggested doing that, and I had assumed that was the default way to go. They were intended for female providers, as I've figured out after a while (never bothered asking for occupation, though).

I mean that some people may just be naively clueless about these etiquettes.

[+ BenjaminNicholas]

It makes me smile when new escorts come here and lay down a ton of bullet points.

 

They either don't last long on the mc or don't last long as escorts. It never fails.

Edited December 23, 2017 by Benjamin_Nicholas

[BgMstr4u]

Good to have you here, Ben.

[Pulgasari1991]

They either don't last long on the mc or don't last long as escorts. It never fails.

What you mean? And what mc stands for?

[MikeBiDude]

What you mean? And what mc stands for?

Message Center aka this forum

[phraughy]

I offer the info up front and offer a picture too - Not interested in wasting time and $$$$ on someone who doesn't appreciate the opportunity to be with me!!!!

I do too! I thought I was supposed to give that data upfront.

[marylander1940]

Too funny, I actually add a bit to my stats so when they see me they think "wow. he's not so bad after all."

 

Good strategy!