How escorts REALLY feel about their clients

[+ deej]

I don't do roses. Too much maintenance.

 

I have a Hawaiian thingie that looks like it might actually bloom this year though.

 

Thanks for asking!

[Guest mbarz]

Sorry about the roses, it must have been that long hospital stay. Hope you're getting around well though, wheelchairs can be such a bitch.

[Doug69]

>Dear Doug,

>In the past I have appreciated disagreeing with you, and sure

>enough, we have shared the same point of view here and there.

>One of the things that I have enjoyed about your posts, is

>that you used to stick to facts, avoided generalizations and

>assumptions.

 

Dear Juan,

 

I have also enjoyed our past exchanges, primiarily because you used to actually read the posts of mine to which you were responding before you responded to them. Why and when did you repudiate that practice?

 

You are accusing me of having opinions which I not only did not express, but which are actually opinions I expressly rejected. Why are you doing that?

 

Here are the two most offending examples.

 

You say:

 

>During your post you indiscriminately interchange "all

>escorts" with "most of escorts" but your main message is that

>we are all disgusted by our clients, that we all lie and that

>we all like the same kind of sexual partners.

 

So this is my "main message," is it? Why, then, did I say exactly the opposite of my "main message" in my reply to Raife (Post #4):

_________

 

First, not all escorts are disgusted by older men. Some escorts like older guys and others are able to find something hot about virtually anyone and concentrate only on that attribute.

 

Many escorts, however, do find the guys they hang out with to be disgusting and pretend otherwise in order to manipulate them. This escort accidentally revealed that he is in this category.

_________

 

Wouldn't you agree that, here, I'm expressing the exact opposite of the opinion you're attributing to me, and rejecting the opinion that you falsely accuse me of having?

 

Here, I'm saying that SOME escorts are disgusted by their clients, but expressly make clear that some escorts find their clients hot, including the old ones. Why, then, would you accuse me of having as my "main point" the claim that ALL escorts are disgusted by their old clients?

 

You then say this:

 

>Then, to agree that we are all disgusted by "clients" because

>they are old, of course you are assuming that all clients are

>old.

 

Again, this is the opposite of what I said. From the same post to Raife:

_________

 

Second, not all guys who hire escorts are old. Therefore, to believe that many escorts, like the one who authored this passage, are disgusted by older guys is not tantamount to believing that every escort experience is degrading.

__________

 

So not only are you wrong when you claim I was assuming that all clients are old, I expressly stated that I was aware of the fact that this is not the case.

 

At least the way I grew up, when you falsely accuse someone of saying something, you owe an apology.

 

>(By the way, before reading Deej's post I was thinking the

>same thing: that BN must be paying you an awfull amount of

>money for publicity. And come on; you know perfectly well that

>in politics and showbiz, publicity is only good when it is

>perfectly clear that the attacks are "real, vicious and

>unfair". it wouldnt be very good publicity if it was evident

>that the attack is paid for.)

 

What a tired, cliched, inane idea - that no matter how negative the publicity, the person is helped. Do you think Michael Jackson's music career has been helped by his child molestation problems? Do you think Bill Clinton's political career was bolstered by the sex scandals? Do you think that Martha Stewart's business interests were aided by the publicity surrounding her Federal Court felony trial?

 

If you and people like deej are right - that any sort of publicity or discussion about an escort helps his career by bringing attention to him - then one of the primary alleged purposes of this site - to warn people about fraudulent, manipulative, deceitful escorts - is extremely counter-productive, since that sort of exposure will only help the escort's career.

 

And, I'll ask you the same question I asked deej (which he couldn't answer) when he spat out these cliches: if these discussions help BN and his career so much, why do he and his followers go to such lengths to suppress them, and why do his friends and business associates who run this site so eagerly comply? Wouldn't they want to see these threads flourish?

 

I also liked your posts in the past because you seemed to think before writing them. I think your posts are better when you do that.

[Doug69]

>>Perhaps he should try harder. :+

>

>He'd never give up the audience.

 

You never know, deej. If you can be forced to (at least pretend to) give up the thing in your life that is most important to you - your moderator 'powers' - anything is possible.

 

>He has a bully pulpit at escortspeak.com, which lets him

>expound to a whopping HUNDRED people.

 

As opposed to the whopping THOUSAND, at most, who read the most active and popular threads here (which, by the way, are almost invariably the threads started and/or perpetuated by the horrible "negative" posters about topics that people like you claim to hate, such as . . . - oh, I don't know - like . . . hmmm . . . like, this thread, for example).

 

That's really great, deej! One forum has existed for 6 years. The other has existed for 4 weeks. And the former currently has, at most, only 10 times larger the readership than the latter. I don't exactly think that's something to brag about or take comfort in.

 

It's sort of like a 60-year old guy bragging about how he's a full foot taller than a 9-month-old infant he just met - not exactly a grand accomplishment, nor would it bode very well for the 60 year-old.

[Doug69]

>As for you and nurse Woodlawn, don't give yourselves too much

>credit. $2500 ain't a big deal to some of us like it is to

>you.

 

Good news! With pretensious, Zsa-Zsa-Gabor-like, "please-believe-how-rich-I-am" pleas like this one, I think you and that escort have a lot in common and are going to get along just fine.

 

The only danger to watch out for is that you 2 not fight during dinner (right after you see some FANTASTIC! - just FABULOUS! -musical theater) over whose diamond earrings are more expensive. But other than that, I think you'll be fine. Enjoy!

[Guest Conway]

Translated:

 

Yeah, you just wait! One day, the nurses at the psychiatric hospital are going to take the restraints off Dougie and Nurse Woodlawn. Then, they'll be able to focus on kicking your ass 24 hours a day versus the 12 hours a day they're unstrapped now. Yeah, you'll be sorry then!

[Epigonos]

Great response Anton and if as a client I may paraphrase:

 

So how do I feel about the escorts I hire? Simple, I love the attention I get, I have wonderful sex with them, they treat me with respect, I have a good time with them, and I pay them, what more can I want? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!!!!!

[woodlawn]

RE: Attack of the killer queens

 

>your constant finger-wagging in this forum is

>ludicrous in light of your repeated, demonstrated enjoyment of

>the very behavior you criticize.

 

>It's another thing completely when innocent, naive escorts and

>clients come in here seeking support, validation, and

>information only to be met head-on by the bitter condescending

>ripostes of a cynical bitchy queen.

 

Only in the bizarre, mirror-image world that exists on this board could prostitutes and johns be characterized as "innocent" and "naive." You are talking about people who get involved in criminal activities for money or in order to gratify their own personal desires, but you talk about them as if they are novices in a convent. How can that possibly make any sense?

 

>In the first instance, all's agreed upon and fair enough, in

>the second, you're picking on the new guys and the emotionally

>unprepared.

 

Try being honest for a change. In this thread, as in a number of his other writings, Doug is focusing on someone who has been a stripper and prostitute for years. Where is the thread in which he is "picking on the new guys and the emotionally unprepared"? Well? Put up or shut up.

 

Regarding what is "agreed upon," my understanding is that the rules, which appear on the user's screen whenever someone hits the Message Center link, do not place any restriction on what any member says about the writings of any other member. Is that true or not? If so, how did Doug violate what is "agreed upon" by starting this thread? Isn't it the case that you are simply making up some shit (as you often do) for the purpose of attacking people whose opinions you don't like?

[JT Brooklyn]

THIS is why Juan is Such a Great Top! He definitely "Puts It" where it belongs! Physically or on the Written PAGE..LOL :+

[Juan Vancouver]

Anton,

 

it is funny that you mention it... We wont be too far away in the next ten days. I am visiting your beautiful city the first ten days of July. So we should (if you want) get together for some coffee.

 

hope to see you there, sexy!

[Juan Vancouver]

JT Brooklyn:

 

How can you be so charming while being so gross??? x( }( }(

 

Big hug to you!

 

Juan

[+ glutes]

Dougie, you are right. This said escort also drives his clients around in his Infinity G35 thinking "When can I get this impotent troll out of my car". However, do we hire them for what they think? Heavens no, we hire them for what they DO!

Now why anyone would spend $1200 (minimum) for an appointment and them have said escort go party, then be manipulated into buying show tickets & jewlery, well - that is beyond me.

[Boston Guy]

This entire thread is really just one more attempt by Doug to use BN as a catalyst to stir up trouble. But the question obtained by turning the thread title around -- "How do escorts REALLY feel about their clients? -- is an interesting one.

 

The first answer, of course, is that the question is unanswerable. Or, rather, there are as many answers as there are escorts. But I think some broad brushstrokes can be drawn.

 

Most escorts escort in order to make money. Surprisingly, though, not all escorts do; some escort simply because they enjoy it. Leaving those aside, the escorts in the first group can be divided into three large groups of guys: straight guys; gay guys who dislike having sex with older guys; and gay guys who do not particularly dislike having sex with older guys (which is not the same as liking it, either).

 

I think that straight guys often enjoy the attention and body worship but generally dislike having sex with guys, especially guys they view as unattractive. Instead of putting themselves down for putting themselves in a position where they need to do something they find distasteful, they'll often put down, dislike or despise their clients, calling them "needy old queens".

 

Gay guys who dislike having sex with older guys or unattractive guys aren't very far removed from their straight colleagues, in my opinion. In fact, I think some gay guys can be far more intolerant of older gay guys than many straight guys. Some of the escorts who post on this board fall into this category. My advice to them and to the straight guys is to stop escorting and do something else with your time, something you feel better about including, if necessary, working more hours at a (much) lower rate doing something you enjoy.

 

The last group are the guys I enjoy finding and getting to know. These escorts wouldn't choose to sleep with their clients in a non-escorting venue. But they also don't find doing so to be distasteful and often are the guys who can find something pleasant, fun and sexy in almost anyone. In my experience, these are the ones who get the most out of escorting, for they take much more away than angry memories and a fistful of cash. And they are the ones who are much more likely to stay in touch with their clients once they stop escorting.

 

I've been lucky enough over the years to get to know a few guys who fall into this category. In each case, we spent a fair amount of time together as escort and client and we have spent more time since they retired as something kind of like casual friends who have shared some interesting experiences.

 

I think it's accurate to say that these guys and others like them do not despise their clients or look down on them. Instead, they seem able to take in the whole person -- in effect, balancing what might be a lack of sexual desire for the client with respect for the experience or knowledge possessed by the client and also a genuine enjoyment for time spent together.

 

It's not necessary for two people to be sexually attracted to each other to enjoy each other's company. Older men and younger men can easily enjoy each other outside of sex, taking in the world, laughing and just enjoying what comes by. I think some of the guys I put in this category have learned somehow to go through with the sex as kind of an act of affection for someone they like in other ways. In this way, these guys are wiser than their years and also seem to share a kind of knack for being "people persons" -- the kind of people who walk in a room and everyone just sort of likes right off the bat.

 

What escorts think about their clients probably depends, ultimately, on the chemistry between each escort and the various clients he sees, just as how we feel about the people in our lives varies from person to person. But I think it's inaccurate to paint all escorts with broad brushstrokes that claim all escorts despise their clients and can't stand being with them. That's probably true for some escorts and maybe even for all escorts with some clients. But it's certainly not universally true.

 

 

BG

[Guest mbarz]

>Most escorts escort in order to make money. Surprisingly,

>though, not all escorts do; some escort simply because they

>enjoy it.

 

I find the second part of this statement hard to believe. If you do it because you enjoy it, why not simple go out and fuck people, with out getting paid, isn't that what most people do that enjoy sex?

 

 

>I think that straight guys often enjoy the attention and body

>worship but generally dislike having sex with guys,

 

LOL, maybe because they're straight?

 

>Instead of putting themselves

>down for putting themselves in a position where they need to

>do something they find distasteful, they'll often put down,

>dislike or despise their clients, calling them "needy old

>queens".

 

 

Most of them have so many limitations they avoid doing anything "distasteful".

 

 

>Gay guys who dislike having sex with older guys or

>unattractive guys aren't very far removed from their straight

>colleagues, in my opinion. In fact, I think some gay guys can

>be far more intolerant of older gay guys than many straight

>guys. Some of the escorts who post on this board fall into

>this category. My advice to them and to the straight guys is

>to stop escorting and do something else with your time,

>something you feel better about including, if necessary,

>working more hours at a (much) lower rate doing something you

>enjoy.

 

 

Why in the world would they do that, are you nuts?

 

 

>The last group are the guys I enjoy finding and getting to

>know. These escorts wouldn't choose to sleep with their

>clients in a non-escorting venue.

 

 

Of course not, they're doing it for money.

 

 

But they also don't find

>doing so to be distasteful and often are the guys who can find

>something pleasant, fun and sexy in almost anyone. In my

>experience, these are the ones who get the most out of

>escorting, for they take much more away than angry memories

>and a fistful of cash.

 

 

Maybe, but I bet the cash is what they're most happy about.

 

 

And they are the ones who are much

>more likely to stay in touch with their clients once they stop

>escorting.

 

You never know when you might need a loan.

 

 

>I think it's accurate to say that these guys and others like

>them do not despise their clients or look down on them.

>Instead, they seem able to take in the whole person -- in

>effect, balancing what might be a lack of sexual desire for

>the client with respect for the experience or knowledge

>possessed by the client and also a genuine enjoyment for time

>spent together.

 

 

Sad.

 

 

 

>It's not necessary for two people to be sexually attracted to

>each other to enjoy each other's company.

 

 

But, it really helps, unless you're paying.

 

 

Older men and

>younger men can easily enjoy each other outside of sex, taking

>in the world, laughing and just enjoying what comes by. I

>think some of the guys I put in this category have learned

>somehow to go through with the sex as kind of an act of

>affection for someone they like in other ways.

 

This is just pure delusion, sad, really sad.

[raife]

Thanks BG for a thorough and most insightful post! We may live on opposite coasts but we share the same views on escorts. You've laid out the spectrum of escort types very nicely and turned what started as a troll post and BN bashfest into an excellent informative capstone article.

[Boston Guy]

> Older men and

>>younger men can easily enjoy each other outside of sex,

>taking

>>in the world, laughing and just enjoying what comes by. I

>>think some of the guys I put in this category have learned

>>somehow to go through with the sex as kind of an act of

>>affection for someone they like in other ways.

>

>This is just pure delusion, sad, really sad.

>

 

I'm sorry you feel this way. For you to feel this way, you must not have experienced this type of interaction with younger guys. That's too bad: it happens a lot.

 

As I've posted here before, I look for escorts for fun while traveling, usually at short notice. I tend to like younger guys (early 20s), often looking for the "non-professional" escort, the boy-next-door type who is escorting while in college or grad school or whatever. I've found these guys to be mainly just fun, usually with little attitude and no cynicism. I'm not looking for a date or a relationship -- just fun.

 

I coined two terms here a long time ago: whammers and charmers. In a nutshell, whammers were looking for simple, fun sex and charmers were looking for something much more akin to a date, and often a long one. I don't think there's anything wrong with either approach, but I'm in the whammer category.

 

Having said that, I've had quite a few guys tell me that they'd like to stay in touch after they stopped escorting and I try to see them from time to time when I swing through their various cities. We get together for a drink or dinner and just enjoy each other's company -- without sex. I always enjoy seeing each of them and I think they enjoy getting together, too.

 

Guys who think that it isn't possible to form any kind of friendship with any escort or that it's a delusion to think a young escort can actually enjoy certain aspects of the time he spends with clients may believe that because of their own experience. However, if someone meets a fair number of escorts and never builds even a small friendship with any of them, it would lead me to wonder what type of escorts they are choosing and what kind of attitude and baggage they themselves are bringing to the encounter.

 

To extend Anton's restaurant analogy, waiters won't serve you dinner when they're not working. But if you're a regular at a restaurant and see one of the waiters at a bar, the likelihood that the waiter will want to have a drink with you and spend some time with you off the clock is likely to be fairly proportional to the attitude you bring to the table when you're a patron in the restaurant.

 

BG

[Bilbo]

Call me a nymphomaniac. Call me Rose Marie. As long as a man has a good attitude and enough self confidence to know that he is sexy, then I will usually agree with him.

 

I've never been rich. I have this acting "habit" for one thing. And community service of one sort or another. Lots of things that have taken up my time, so I'm not really lazy. But the pursuit of money? Fraid I never got into that one as much as I should have.

 

So, for one thing, I can rarely afford to hire an escort. Not as often as I would like to at all. However, ads cost a lot less money. Actually, they at least break even and at best support me. Depends on the month, as with many self employed people. But they also bring me what I love - lots of variety in sexy men. (And my lover of seven years, Maverick, agrees with me on that one. Has been asking me for a couple of weeks why there haven't been any three ways for a while.) So, I'm in this business for a lot of the same reasons that my clients are - good sex with no strings attached. (They've been replaced by the money.)

 

And now that I consciously think of myself as a sexual healer, I even enjoy the guys who don't have the confidence to know they're sexy. I get to try to help them discover that about themselves.

 

Please don't acknowledge that the men like me exist and then completely ignore us like we are an unimportant subgroup and spend all your time on the others. As an attitude, that could be made more attractive, you know?

[woodlawn]

>This entire thread is really just one more attempt by Doug to

>use BN as a catalyst to stir up trouble.

 

In an earlier thread you accused Doug and several others -- including me, I believe -- of engaging in a conspiracy to "destroy this site" because of our style of posting.

 

But the truth is that there were never more than a few members of this site who participated in or cared about the threads on so-called "negative" posts. While you were writing your book-length screeds about the horror of it all, the rest of the MC and the site went on as usual. Posters were asking for info on specific escorts, escorts were posting their travel schedules, and posters who come here to exclaim over the "hotness" of their favorite actors were continuing to do that. It could hardly be more obvious that the danger you were croaking about never existed. I really think it is time for you to apologize for the false accusations you made and the ridiculous fearmongering that you engaged in. You should be deeply embarrassed.

[Guest mbarz]

>I'm sorry you feel this way. For you to feel this way, you

>must not have experienced this type of interaction with

>younger guys. That's too bad: it happens a lot.

 

I interact with younger guys all the time, mainly because I'm one of them, you really shouldn't assume everyone that post here is an old geezer, people may begin to think you're narrow minded.

 

 

>As I've posted here before, I look for escorts for fun while

>traveling, usually at short notice. I tend to like younger

>guys (early 20s), often looking for the "non-professional"

>escort, the boy-next-door type who is escorting while in

>college or grad school or whatever. I've found these guys to

>be mainly just fun, usually with little attitude and no

>cynicism. I'm not looking for a date or a relationship --

>just fun.

 

 

I tend not to read your post, but isn't that because you have a wife and children.

 

 

>Guys who think that it isn't possible to form any kind of

>friendship with any escort or that it's a delusion to think a

>young escort can actually enjoy certain aspects of the time he

>spends with clients may believe that because of their own

>experience. However, if someone meets a fair number of

>escorts and never builds even a small friendship with any of

>them, it would lead me to wonder what type of escorts they are

>choosing and what kind of attitude and baggage they themselves

>are bringing to the encounter.

 

 

I wouldn't know, I've never hired an escort.

 

 

>To extend Anton's restaurant analogy, waiters won't serve you

>dinner when they're not working. But if you're a regular at a

>restaurant and see one of the waiters at a bar, the likelihood

>that the waiter will want to have a drink with you and spend

>some time with you off the clock is likely to be fairly

>proportional to the attitude you bring to the table when

>you're a patron in the restaurant.

 

 

Having been a waiter, this is true, but waiters usually only do this hoping the next time the customer comes in they will tip them more, sorry it really is only about money.

[Boston Guy]

>>I'm sorry you feel this way. For you to feel this way, you

>>must not have experienced this type of interaction with

>>younger guys. That's too bad: it happens a lot.

>

>I interact with younger guys all the time, mainly because I'm

>one of them, you really shouldn't assume everyone that post

>here is an old geezer, people may begin to think you're narrow

>minded.

>

 

Point well taken. :-) We all do well to remember that it's easy to fall into assumptions that may not be valid.

 

 

>>As I've posted here before, I look for escorts for fun while

>>traveling, usually at short notice. I tend to like younger

>>guys (early 20s), often looking for the "non-professional"

>>escort, the boy-next-door type who is escorting while in

>>college or grad school or whatever. I've found these guys

>to

>>be mainly just fun, usually with little attitude and no

>>cynicism. I'm not looking for a date or a relationship --

>>just fun.

>

>

>I tend not to read your post, but isn't that because you have

>a wife and children.

>

 

OMG... No, I don't have a wife or children. There are times when I do find myself feeling that it would have been nice to have children, but that's probably a subject for another thread. At this point, I've been out for years and years and years and am happy, gay and single. If I weren't single, I wouldn't hire escorts.

 

But, since you ask, the reason I'm not looking for a date or a relationship is simple. I've found that escorts are a great way to have fun while traveling on business. Hiring an escort definitely beats sitting alone in the hotel room watching TV. But were I looking for a relationship, it wouldn't be with someone who was 30 years younger than myself. When I date, it's always with guys fairly near my own age. Someone who's 45 will have a lot in common with me. Someone who is 25 is in a very different place and, while he may be terrific fun, isn't likely to be the guy I want to wake up to every morning.

 

 

>

>I wouldn't know, I've never hired an escort.

>

 

You've expressed some opinions ("Sad") about guys who hire escorts and how they interact with the escorts and what they may or may not be looking for. You are most certainly entitled to your own opinion and it's as valid as anyone else's here.

 

However, it's not as informed an opinion, since you're both younger and haven't experienced hiring an escort. The actual experience of doing something often changes our view of it.

 

As I've grown older, I find I see the world less in black-and-white terms and more in shades of gray that recognize that there are many valid ways to approach life. I see fewer absolutes today and often find much to respect in the opinions of people I don't agree with.

 

 

>Having been a waiter, this is true, but waiters usually only

>do this hoping the next time the customer comes in they will

>tip them more, sorry it really is only about money.

>

 

Your experience and your opinion are valid and I respect your opinion. I'd only offer that I suspect it depends a great deal on the waiter, the chemistry between him and the customer, and how the customer treats the waiter when he's waiting on him.

 

If someone is at all active in their community, they're bound to keep running into people who provide services to them: the barber, the waiter, the insurance guy, the car dealer, the real estate broker, etc. You can believe that every one of these people is only being friendly and nice because they're hoping you'll spend more money with them in the future. But I think that's a little sad and it's certainly not how I view or think of my own customers. Instead, I think it's quite common to spend time socially with people that you have commercial transactions with, without needing to try to find some underlying commercial justification. Sometimes, it really is just about having a beer with someone and shooting the breeze.

 

BG