Bug Chasers

[Guest ChgoBoy]

Ok,yesterdays conversations about code words; "uninhibited=barebacking" got me curious and I visited a couple barebacking websites to check out personal ads to see how many contained this possible code. Surprisingly, very few contained the word "uninhibited, but then again if you're at a bareback website, I suppose there really is no need for "code words". But what I did find has me almost sick. Apparently, there are guys out there that are "bug chasers" They are looking for HIV positive guys to "catch the bug" from. What is this all about? Who in their right mind would go out of there way to become infected with a deadly virus? What is the mindset of these guys? I like to view myself as fairly hip and open minded, but this has me really disgusted.:o

[JT Brooklyn]

I think this Topic was brought up in the past. With many takes on "Bug Chasers" The "Why not me Survivor" guilt being one. Ask a Bug Chaser and you will no doubt, find out they knew or know of someone HIV-Positive. Apparently it affected their lives greatly..It is a Sad situation indeed, for all... :+ :+ :+

[+ deej]

Had your head buried in the sand for a while, eh?

 

This has been discussed here, usually prompted by an article about it in a major media outlet. It has been going on for several years.

[+ deej]

Had your head buried in the sand for a while, eh?

 

This has been discussed here, usually prompted by an article about it in a major media outlet. It has been going on for several years.

[Guest ChgoBoy]

>Had your head buried in the sand for a while, eh?

>

>This has been discussed here, usually prompted by an article

>about it in a major media outlet. It has been going on for

>several years.

 

 

I guess being new presents some obsticles as to what has and hasnt been discussed here. Hopefully future posts will be more current.

[Guest ChgoBoy]

>Had your head buried in the sand for a while, eh?

>

>This has been discussed here, usually prompted by an article

>about it in a major media outlet. It has been going on for

>several years.

 

 

I guess being new presents some obsticles as to what has and hasnt been discussed here. Hopefully future posts will be more current.

[+ deej]

Discuss anything you like! :-)

 

But you led off with this:

 

>I like to view myself as fairly hip and open minded

 

in a post decrying behavior of others. Not particularly open minded. x(

[+ deej]

Discuss anything you like! :-)

 

But you led off with this:

 

>I like to view myself as fairly hip and open minded

 

in a post decrying behavior of others. Not particularly open minded. x(

[Guest ChgoBoy]

>Discuss anything you like! :-)

>

>But you led off with this:

>

>>I like to view myself as fairly hip and open minded

>

>in a post decrying behavior of others. Not particularly open

>minded. x(

>

>

 

Well, Deej, I suppose we all have a line at some point where we close the mind off to other's behaviors. I dont endorse murder, rape, child molestation, etc. I wasnt criticizing anyone, just wanting to understand more what this is all about and why someone would want to put themselves in that kind of situation. I think wanting to know more and understand more speaks to open mindedness; even though it might disgust me.

[Guest ChgoBoy]

>Discuss anything you like! :-)

>

>But you led off with this:

>

>>I like to view myself as fairly hip and open minded

>

>in a post decrying behavior of others. Not particularly open

>minded. x(

>

>

 

Well, Deej, I suppose we all have a line at some point where we close the mind off to other's behaviors. I dont endorse murder, rape, child molestation, etc. I wasnt criticizing anyone, just wanting to understand more what this is all about and why someone would want to put themselves in that kind of situation. I think wanting to know more and understand more speaks to open mindedness; even though it might disgust me.

[PacNW]

RE: Stumbling off-topic

 

>I guess being new presents some obsticles as to what has and

>hasnt been discussed here. Hopefully future posts will be more

>current.

 

As deej (later) said, just post what you want. You stumbled early into one of the strange traps around here for fresh-faced newbies versus jaded veterans who forget that they too once had only 9 posts. Cutting them some slack, what's often intended as "You might be interested to know this has been discussed before" ends up sounding like "Why are you bothering us with this again?!?" without their necessarily realizing it.

 

For another illustation of this no-win situation, do some research on a topic, resurrect a 6-month old thread, add your comments, and see how long it takes for a "Why are we reading this again?" message to show up. (Gas price listings apparently excepted.) :-)

[Guest ChgoBoy]

RE: Stumbling off-topic

 

Packy....thanks for your kind words and I will take your advice before posting again.:7

[bigguyinpasadena]

Hello ChgoBoy and welcome to the message center.

I was fortunate enough to have avoided the HIV"bug"-although by no precautions of my own.I was living a very sleazy sex filled life in S.F.durung the mid 70's to late 80's.This was the 'primetime"for HIV contageion and most of my friends/aquaintances from that period are either dead or positive for the HIV bug.

As gay men many of us are plagued from the start with doubts of self worth.Couple that with a community that(rightly IMO)celebrates sex and libertine activities and you have opened the door for "risky"behavior.

Survivour guilt was a driving force for "bug chasers"in the early days of the epidemic,and still continues today.

Also the feeling of"Well it is gonna happen sooner or later-so I might as well get it over with"is abundant amongst the PNP crowd and others.The justification for this is a suposition(incorrect)that once infected you will be able to play what ever games with whomever you like with out having to take the responsibility of practicing safe sex.

Is this right or wrong behavior?Well that is not for me to say.Of course I have opinions regarding the matter-but I would not lable those that practice such behavior as "sick and disgusting"rather I would call them uninformed and perhaps in need of love and help.

[Guest ChgoBoy]

BigGuyInPasadena:

 

Thanks for sharing your story and thoughts. I too have heard of the survivors syndrome that presents a myriad of emotional challenges that can be quite serious. I sadly have friends who lost family and friends on 9-11 and they have struggled with this very same thing. It is indeed sad and troubling however, that our gay brothers have the perspective many seem to have. I agree with you that help and love might be missing in their lives, but their behavior is such that they are also putting others at risk who may or may not know about their status. Its one thing to kill yourself thru grief, guilt or other personal struggles, its another thing to effectively put others in harms way thru your behavior. I realize that there are many viewpoints on this and certainly I am not judging them (I hope)but I do find the behavior disturbing and quite irresponsible.

[JT Brooklyn]

CHGOBOY..Welcome to the Forums..And as we say in Bklyn "Watch Your Friggin Back" Some people will jump on you like a "Cat on a Mouse"! BUT Bottom line, You should Say, Ask, discuss whatever you want! That info was passed on to me personally by.. VDN..Some "sensibilities" you will see, come from either Too much J/O or Too Little J/o.. LOL LOL :+ :+ :+

[Guest skrubber]

RE: Stumbling off-topic

 

After watching my twin brother die from AIDS I can think of no worse way to go. These people must be insane.

[joel304]

I've been trying to keep up on the "scat" updates. I, too, am not as versed in this lovely behavior as I "should" be. I am, however, intrigued by this man on Craig's List that is offering $50 to shit in his toilet.

[+ deej]

In addition to "survivor guilt", many youngsters today haven't experienced the horrors of death from AIDS personally. They don't remember the armies of "walking dead" in the gay ghettos from 20 years ago. Couple that with the "invincible" feeling natural in the young and they have little reason to avoid the disease.

 

Meds *are* more effective at prolonging quality of life today, but the number of cures is holding firm at 0.

[joel304]

>In addition to "survivor guilt", many youngsters today

>haven't experienced the horrors of death from AIDS personally.

>They don't remember the armies of "walking dead" in the gay

>ghettos from 20 years ago.

 

 

Truer words have not been spoken. I was walking (maybe sauntering)through Castro just yesterday. Two 19ish boys were standing in front of the pharmacy, reading a flier on the door that announced their inventory of one of the latest HIV med(the name escapes me). Their conversation turned to how "cool" it must have been in SF during the '80's AIDS crisis, and likened the experience to the revolutionary '60's.

 

I'm 35, and was semi-removed from the epedemic during the Reagan years. But, to be this naive is truly amazing to me.

[bigguyinpasadena]

To quote Mr.Dickens"It was the best of times,it was the worst of times"

Having attended my first pride parade when I was 15,and to see all of these beautiful gay men and women embracing their queer idendity so powerfully-the world seemed bright with promise to a young gay-and very queer boy.

To see it crumble within a decade,it still brings tears to my eyes.

So many,many,wonderful talented people gone forever-the word will never be the same.

And yet it got many people angry enough to get political,brought the faces and names of gay folks out of the darkness and into the living rooms of america.We were so angry!We wanted answers NOW!!!!And there were no answers forthcoming.It empowered gay folks,and gave us all common cause.

Young people do not-and may never understand the sadness and heartache that was part of our everyday lives.

"There once was a city on a hill..."

[HotdadENYC]

For every youngster out there that feels invincible, there are probably just as many other guys and gals who don't get the message about the dangers of practicing unsafe sex.

 

Survivor guilt and rampant use of illegal drugs are part of the explanation. The availability of medicine and the fact that more people with HIV are leading normal lives have also helped, sadly in my opinion, to render some people less careful in their behavior.

 

But the one line of reasoning that absolutely floors me is that "once you get it, you don't have to worry about getting it again." Obviously we may not have done enough to educate people that HIV is not ONE strain or ONE virus; it can take multiple forms, and the presence of one strain does not preclude becoming re-infected.

 

The one line of reasoning that ANGERS me is the persistent perception that HIV is a drug addict or gay man's disease, despite overwhelming medical evidence to the contrary.

 

I don't profess to know all of the reasons why someone would "chase the bug." I suspect its like other forms of behavior and probably has several underlying reasons.

 

I neither condone nor condemn the practice, but I am saddened to think that people may do this because we haven't given them enough real information about the perils of unsafe sex.

 

hd NYC

[HotdadENYC]

Chgoboy, I wholeheartedly agree with JT. Welcome to the message center and please feel free to post your feelings and opinions as you see fit.

 

I know it gets frustrating sometimes to see the same thread posted and re-hashed. But sometimes its enlightening. To think, for example, that we have not come so far in our ability to control gasoline prices (as evidenced by a recently resurrected thread) would actually be funny if it weren't so fucking pathetic.

 

And in my opinion, any discussion about safe sex and promoting the health of our community, and understanding behavior relative to that, is neither a waste of time nor of words.

 

hd NYC

[Guest ChgoBoy]

Thanks alot HotdadENYC

 

ChgoBoy:-)

[+ deej]

BGIP, the message got weak.

 

"We" (the gay community) got complacent. In the early years, the message was constant and unavoidable. Somewhere along the way, "we" lost "our" determination and the message stopped going out.

 

Can you name a week when you haven't seen an anti-smoking PSA on network television? The American Cancer Society NEVER STOPS because they know that there's a new crop every damn day. When is the last time you saw an AIDS or safer sex PSA on TV?

 

We've seen plenty of evidence right here in this forum of people who didn't get the memo.

 

We're on the cusp of another wave of walking dead, only they'll look pretty good until the last days. <sigh>

 

"Our" generation failed the next because we let them forget.

[+ nycman]

>>I like to view myself as fairly hip and open minded

>

>in a post decrying behavior of others. Not particularly open

>minded. x(

 

 

Are you INSANE? "Open minded" about others committing suicide?

 

Sorry, there's nothing "open minded" about accepting stupidity and self destruction. It's exactly this attitude that's lead to the current complacency about risk taking behavior and the ensuing rise in HIV deaths that is sure to come. Hate to play Cassandra at your end-of-the-world fuck responsibility party...but it's gonna end in tears. And we will all pay an enormous price for this idiotic "freedom". Let me remind you that true freedom is not without responsibility.