Cactus 1549 life lesson

[AdamSmith]

Ground Proximity Warning system (15:30:15): Caution terrain.

 

Skiles (15:30:16): Hundred and fifty knots.

 

Skiles (15:30:17): Got flaps two, you want more?

 

Sullenberger (15:30:19): No lets stay at two.

 

Sullenberger (15:30:21): Got any ideas?

 

Departure control (15:30:22): Cactus fifteen twenty nine if you can uh .... you got uh runway uh two nine available at Newark it'll be two o'clock and seven miles.

 

Enhanced Ground Proximity Warning system (15:30:23): Caution terrain.

 

Skiles (15:30:23): Actually not.

 

Enhanced Ground Proximity Warning system (15:30:24): Terrain terrain. Pull up. Pull up. ("pull up" repeats until the end of the recording).

 

Sullenberger (15:30:38): We're gonna brace.

[AdamSmith]

Engrossing audio transcript.

 

[marylander1940]

Engrossing audio transcript.

 

 

[marylander1940]

[+ quoththeraven]

Ground Proximity Warning system (15:30:15): Caution terrain.

 

Skiles (15:30:16): Hundred and fifty knots.

 

Skiles (15:30:17): Got flaps two, you want more?

 

Sullenberger (15:30:19): No lets stay at two.

 

Sullenberger (15:30:21): Got any ideas?

 

Departure control (15:30:22): Cactus fifteen twenty nine if you can uh .... you got uh runway uh two nine available at Newark it'll be two o'clock and seven miles.

 

Enhanced Ground Proximity Warning system (15:30:23): Caution terrain.

 

Skiles (15:30:23): Actually not.

 

Enhanced Ground Proximity Warning system (15:30:24): Terrain terrain. Pull up. Pull up. ("pull up" repeats until the end of the recording).

 

Sullenberger (15:30:38): We're gonna brace.

 

I am somewhat lost, Mr. Smith. Can you translate?

 

I get the sense that Mr. Sullenberger made some decisions that made things worse, but I'm not sure enough to make any definitive statement about it.

 

Or, in other words, what is the life lesson here?!

[+ MasssageGuy]

Now THIS is what leadership is about.... Thanks for posting!

[AdamSmith]

I am somewhat lost, Mr. Smith. Can you translate?

 

I get the sense that Mr. Sullenberger made some decisions that made things worse, but I'm not sure enough to make any definitive statement about it.

 

Or, in other words, what is the life lesson here?!

(1) Interested to know more detail on what decisions he made that may have made things worse. No argument, just curiosity.

 

(2) Life lesson here is in my boldfacing. Fewer than 10 seconds from splashdown, after they have both done everything they know how, the commanding officer asks his second, "Got any ideas?"

 

And the almost Illya Kuryakin-like coolness of Skiles's "Actually not."

 

Their sang-froid, combined with the classical cockpit discipline rule for the CO to actively get his sub's input, seems the lesson.

[+ FreshFluff]

The only criticism was that didn't have time to get to get to the "ditch switch" on the checklist before they actually, well, ditched. That allowed the plane to take in more water than it otherwise would have.

 

Otherwise, he calmly executed an extremely difficult ditch with no loss of life.

[AdamSmith]

The only criticism was that didn't have time to get to get to the "ditch switch" on the checklist before they actually, well, ditched. That allowed the plane to take in more water than it otherwise would have.

Sully had this to say about that.

 

Air & Space: Did the airplane have a ditch button that would have sealed certain openings in the cabin?

 

Sullenberger: Yes, it’s called a ditching push button. And there was not time. We never got to the ditching push button on the checklist. It wouldn’t have mattered anyway. The vents that are normally open are small. And once the airplane touched the water, the contact opened holes in the bottom of the airplane much, much larger than all of the vents that this ditching push button was designed to close.

 

I cannot conceive of any ditching or water landing where it would help. Theoretically I understand why the engineers included it. It sounded like a good idea, but not in practice. We had a successful water landing, and even then, from seeing pictures of [the airplane] being removed from the river by a crane, there were much larger holes than the vents this button was designed to close.

 

http://www.airspacemag.com/as-interview/aamps-interview-sullys-tale-53584029/#SMbZ3oteUL7xidDV.99

[+ FreshFluff]

I cannot conceive of any ditching or water landing where it would help. Theoretically I understand why the engineers included it. It sounded like a good idea, but not in practice. We had a successful water landing, and even then, from seeing pictures of [the airplane] being removed from the river by a crane, there were much larger holes than the vents this button was designed to close.

 

I figured that. Also, some passenger decided to open the back door of the plane, which caused it to take on even more water. So the ditch switch wouldn't have helped anyway.

[Guy Fawkes]

Any landing where everyone walks away, is a good landing no matter the details.

[+ honcho]

Any landing where everyone walks away, is a good landing no matter the details.

 

I was involved in a joint project with a department at another large public university in california where my counterpart was a member of the civil air patrol. He said *exactly* the same thing

[MsGuy]

Additional life lesson:

 

"Departure control (15:30:22): Cactus fifteen twenty nine if you can uh .... you got uh runway uh two nine available at Newark it'll be two o'clock and seven miles." Offered 10 seconds before touchdown.

 

At the most excruciatingly delicate moment in any crises management situation, some clown will interrupt with absolutely useless information/directions.

[AdamSmith]

Additional life lesson:

 

"Departure control (15:30:22): Cactus fifteen twenty nine if you can uh .... you got uh runway uh two nine available at Newark it'll be two o'clock and seven miles." Offered 10 seconds before touchdown.

 

At the most excruciatingly delicate moment in any crises management situation, some clown will interrupt with absolutely useless information/directions.

OTOH real-life reportage about this particular controller noted how he held up, continuing to look for any remotely possibly useful info to Cactus 1549, while continuing to do competent job for the other aircraft under his control, all under the rapid realization that he had, in all probability, a crashed deadly disaster on his hands that he had, in possibly actionable ways, failed to save.

 

Commentators remarked that (this is evident in the long-duration voice recordings) one could tell from his voice inflections after radio contact was lost that he thought the craft was crashed and all souls dead.

[+ FreshFluff]

OTOH real-life reportage about this particular controller noted how he held up, continuing to look for any remotely possibly useful info to Cactus 1549, while continuing to do competent job for the other aircraft under his control, all under the rapid realization that he had, in all probability, a crashed deadly disaster on his hands that he had, in possibly actionable ways, failed to save.

 

What else could the controller have done to help get the aircraft down safely?

[AdamSmith]

What else could the controller have done to help get the aircraft down safely?

I think what is expressed is his very real anxiety, as with any operational or engineer type person with responsibility for real-world real-time outcomes, that he may not have thought of something, in sufficient time, that could have saved the situation.

 

See, if the concept is alien, the legendary Gene Kranz's Failure Is Not An Option. https://www.amazon.com/Failure-Not-Option-Mission-Control/dp/1439148813

[+ Funguy]

The movie is A+ and does answer a lot of questions!

[Guy Fawkes]

A jet without either engine has very limited control. A skilled pilot has limited control of pitch (nose up, nose down) and yaw (nose left, nose right).

 

The pilot has the final command which is why we heard: "Unable" a couple times and finally the final decision: "We're going into the Hudson."

 

The controller was doing his job presenting all possible options in an emergency. The pilots were doing his job getting 155 passengers and crew out of harm's way.

 

The miracle is that the pilots kept that bird in the air for three minutes and found a landing spot in a very tight piece of real estate. See the map: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_Airways_Flight_1549

 

Anything else is speculation.

 

Additional life lesson:

 

"Departure control (15:30:22): Cactus fifteen twenty nine if you can uh .... you got uh runway uh two nine available at Newark it'll be two o'clock and seven miles." Offered 10 seconds before touchdown.

 

At the most excruciatingly delicate moment in any crises management situation, some clown will interrupt with absolutely useless information/directions.

[+ quoththeraven]

Additional life lesson:

 

"Departure control (15:30:22): Cactus fifteen twenty nine if you can uh .... you got uh runway uh two nine available at Newark it'll be two o'clock and seven miles." Offered 10 seconds before touchdown.

 

At the most excruciatingly delicate moment in any crises management situation, some clown will interrupt with absolutely useless information/directions.

 

That was what misled me. If the situation was so dire, what was the point of mentioning Newark, which was miles away? It wasn't a reaolsonable option and mentioning it took up precious time and attention.

 

(Sorry, GF, I'm a little less understanding than you. But I bet my father the former navigator in the WWII-era Army Air Force would say the same thing.)

[Guy Fawkes]

You would lose the bet. A navigator would have considered all the options even the one 7 minutes away that was directly on the current flight path. What if the pilots were able to get partial thrust?

 

The controller wouldn't know; and the pilots would be grateful if they had managed a restart on one engine. To quote Scully: "Got any ideas?"

 

I repeat: All souls on board survived. What is this need to blame someone, anyone for situation well handled?

 

That was what misled me. If the situation was so dire, what was the point of mentioning Newark, which was miles away? It wasn't a reaolsonable option and mentioning it took up precious time and attention.

 

(Sorry, GF, I'm a little less understanding than you. But I bet my father the former navigator in the WWII-era Army Air Force would say the same thing.)

[+ FreshFluff]

I repeat: All souls on board survived. What is this need to blame someone, anyone for situation well handled?

 

Not much point in public criticism. If the investigators had any chance of finding useful info for use in training, then their nitpicking was worthwhile.

 

In any case, there were almost no flaws to pick here. Sully is a superior pilot, full stop.

[+ azdr0710]

Additional life lesson:

 

"Departure control (15:30:22): Cactus fifteen twenty nine if you can uh .... you got uh runway uh two nine available at Newark it'll be two o'clock and seven miles." Offered 10 seconds before touchdown.

 

At the most excruciatingly delicate moment in any crises management situation, some clown will interrupt with absolutely useless information/directions.

 

That was what misled me. If the situation was so dire, what was the point of mentioning Newark, which was miles away? It wasn't a reaolsonable option and mentioning it took up precious time and attention.

 

(Sorry, GF, I'm a little less understanding than you. But I bet my father the former navigator in the WWII-era Army Air Force would say the same thing.)

 

 

Wait a minute! Are you guys belittling the ATC for offering possibly life-saving options??

[+ quoththeraven]

Wait a minute! Are you guys belittling the ATC for offering possibly life-saving options??

 

Ditching in the water as they did was the life-saving option. Flying to an airport seven miles away was not.

[Guy Fawkes]

Are you a Pilot? Are you an ATC? You're opinion is not sound to either group.

 

http://m.memegen.com/1js7ru.jpg

 

Ditching in the water as they did was the life-saving option. Flying to an airport seven miles away was not.