S & M...I don't get it

[foxy]

I've never understood why someone gets pleasure from something that is painful phyiscally or emotionally. Is it something that can be explained?

[Bilbo]

First, no one is requiring that you understand it. Only that you accept and love gay leather men as you would any of your other bay brothers. (OK, "requiring" is the wrong word.)

Second, remember that the bottom is largely in charge. In a well run scene, nothing happens that he doesn't want to happen.

 

Now, I myself don't emotionally understand why anyone would turn on to emotional torture. And I don't think that even when it is simulated, which it might be in safe and sane, consensual SM, that it is something that the majority of leather folk are really into. Those that are probably like the feeling of having boundaries strictly enforced, which might be somethiing that they aren't good with in everyday life. Or they might be in positions of authority and need to balance themselves out by being disciplined the way that they discipline others.

 

That is different from surrender, which can be a very spiritual thing and expresses trust on both sides, both of which can be a wonderful emotional high.

 

Physically, it helps if you think of it, not as "pain", but as "extreme tactile stimulation." It is in many cases an extension of other things which you are probably doing all ready. For example, instead of sucking on nipples, you might be nibbling on them gently with your teeth, using a bird dog grip rather than biting, actually, And you might use tit clamps instead of your mouth. Leather gear is basically extensions of the Master's body parts. Obvious with dildos. But think how nice it feels sometimes to have someone hold your wrists down with his hands. Then think how much nicer it might feel if he could do that and suck you at the same time. Physically impossible for most of it. But if you replace Daddy's hands with a nice wide leather restraint that most likely won't leave a mark, then he can get his mouth down where you want it.

 

And it can be quite playful and affirming. Didn't you ever use a wet towel on a friend's rear in gym class? If not, didn't you ever want to? Or did you get jealous because some more popular guy got his rear snapped and didn't appreciate it, when you really would have liked getting the attention yourself?

 

And I hope that you're not believeing everything you read in leather erotica. A good bit of that doesn't really ever happen. (Well, at least in the vintage stuff. A lot of the newer stories seem to limit themselves to things which are really do-able.)

 

Myself, I don't really get muscle worship. But I have a sneaking suspicion that I would like it if I did get it.

[Guest skrubber]

It's sex, who can explain it?

[guptasa1]

You've already gotten some great responses, but thought I'd add my own two cents to the mix since I find this a very interesting question. I tend to be a submissive and am definitely into some S&M stuff (though not as heavily as some).

 

As someone mentioned, in sex, sometimes it doesn't always make absolutely perfect sense what we're into. Think about it - it may very well be you have a fetish ot turnon that's not so easy to explain right of the bat. And I think that's really cool - I find it very interesting to find out what everybody's into and the different tastes out there! Makes thing exciting. =o)

 

Part of S&M for me is getting off on vulnerability and having to trust someone (after all, sexual intimacy is so personal). I absolutely love being with a partner (one who I can trust) and then being vulnerable and even helpless to him. I'd totally agree with Bilbo that it is a type of high. It's incredible to be with someone who's stronger or more experienced who makes me submit, but there's a tenderness and safety there also. (Now, some people do get off on the harder stuff without the tenderness, and I don't think that's for me. I need to know the person I'm with cares about me and my feelings and will take care of me when I am vulnerable.)

 

I love things like being spanked, tickled, pinned, and talked to dirty and aggressively (and probably things like bondage and maybe watersports too), especially if it's all done in a rather playful manner. Again, as Bilbo mentioned, I really enjoy a "towel-snap" attitude towards it. Playful but still passionate. That's the way sex is best for me. Nothing like being playfully told how you're mouth and ass are going to be stuffed with a fat cock over and over again and feeling your ass slapped. =oP Or being told how to pleasure the person you're with and worship their body. I don't really like a really severe attitude with these things - more a grin and obvious enjoyment of the power the person has.

 

I suppose for me, the vulnerability also leads to an almost...embarassment (maybe that's not even the right word, but best I can come up with). I'm honestly not sure *why* I like that. But I like feeling a bit shy and embarassed around a sexual partner. It probably goes back to that feeling of safety when I'm with them.

 

Other things vary with me. For example, I *love* being spanked by hand, but I doubt I'd enjoy a paddle. There's just something personal about it being someone's hand that makes it extremely exciting.

 

It's mainly a psychological thing I'd say. Now, I do *not* like being *really* abused, either physically or emotionally. But playful domination and roleplay is an entirely different story. It doesn't hurt at all - it feels GOOD (even the punishment or darker fantasies).

 

I think one distinction that has to be made is pain vs. pleasure. I really think it's true that one person's pain can be another's pleasure and vice versa. When you envision something as painful, some people, like me, might find it extremely appealing and sexually exciting and not really painful at all (for example, the sting of being spanked, or the helplessness of being tickled are both pleasurable things for me).

 

I hope I've explained this well enough to sorta kinda help answer your question. LOL. =o)

[kjun]

>>>>Only that you accept and love gay leather men as you would any of your other bay brothers. <<<<<<<

 

I didn't see that foxy said anything about leather. Does one have to be into leather in order to get into S & M? I think not.

 

Like Foxy, I don't enjoy or understand S & M but this is not a practice reserved to the Gay community. Some of my friends enjoy it and c'est la vie.

 

However, it does appear that you got mighty defensive about the issue.

 

the Cajun

[uptownmike]

Oh My, I'm a new guy here and bluishing ( But I've read ever word).

[Guest zipperzone]

>I've never understood why someone gets pleasure from

>something that is painful phyiscally or emotionally. Is it

>something that can be explained?

 

I'm not into pain - have a really low tolerance for it.

 

But....... several years ago I was fucking a guy in his apartment. It was my first time with him and the sex was so-so, not bad, but certainly not great.

 

Just as I was starting to cum, his Siamese cat jumped on to my back and dug it's claws into me. The pain really hurt, but the timing of it happening just as I was cuming was exquisite. At that moment I understood how pleasureable pain could be!

[Guest Merlin]

It has been explained to me that it combines sex with a variety of other strong emotions and sensations to create a more powerful experience: humiliation, fear, pain, embarrassment etc.

[guptasa1]

>It has been explained to me that it combines sex with a

>variety of other strong emotions and sensations to create a

>more powerful experience: humiliation, fear, pain,

>embarrassment etc.

 

That makes sense to me. As does the story about the cat. But yes, a stronger emotional response is a good way to describe it.

[Bilbo]

I'm sorry that I appeared prickly to you. At least I didn't just say, check the archives. Which I could have because we've been down this road so far that I almost didn't answer the question at all. But since a large part of my business is instructing, in person, people who have an interest in power trading games but little or no experience in them, helping those people to at least sniff their fantasies, see what they might be like if they brought them into their reality, then I did feel that I might be said to have an obligation to answer the question.

 

I tried to use as many different expressions as I thought about that morning to refer to the phenomenon. I am surprised that you object to my referring to it as leather. Of course, one can be in leather, rubber, denim, camoflauge, khakis, whatever, and the games and the reason why they are played will remain largely the same.

 

And I had meant to come in on this thread again, any way. I forgot to mention that another reason this is a pleasant enterprise is that the super stimulated body releases a chemical, which I believe is called endorfins - some refer to it playfully as swimming with the dolphins - which is a natural high.

 

My apologies if I have repeated anything anyone else has said, particularly if they have said it better, but I went ahead and answered this post directly to me before I finished reading the rest of the thread.

[Vincent_Michael]

I dont think there is anything wrong with it, but all have to say about it is OUCH!!!

[noviceny]

Far beyond sexual S and M, I never understood any activity that caused you pain, as being a positive activity, until I started martial arts.

 

Never played a sport in my life and wondered why my dumb ass friends loved getting hit in football and boxing. I thought they were just stupid (or just being straight). After finding the thrill in competing in a tournament where you have to endure pain to win, I finally got a little insight. Of course it is a bit different than sexual S and M, but the feelings and the concept are similiar.

 

Damn...I might just put this on my list of things to do while coming out

[Trixie]

There's this anecdote that's been around for years, and I'm not exactly sure of the actual phrasing, but it goes something like this: Someone asked Louis Armstrong what was the point of jazz. And Satchmo responded, "Baby, if you have to ask, you'll never know."

(This anecdote may be totally butchered, I just can't remember... it may not even have been Louiss Armstrong. Maybe it was Lois Hamstring... anyway, it gets the idea across.)

In other words, the human mind, the human body, and the human soul all are terribly complicated vehicles. Despite our 24 hour dependence on all three, no one can really say how any one of them truly works, much less how all three work together. But they do work together, and they do so more or less uniquely for each and ev'ry person who has ever lived on this planet.

Questioning why a person has a preference for one thing over another is simply an exercise in frustruation. You can rationalize for hours about it, and discuss psychological possibilities, but when it comes right down to it, the seeds of our desires were lovingly planted during a full-moon night full of loon calls and wolfsong.

And we don't really know why... that's what makes them wild, and beautiful.

 

Trix

[Bilbo]

Thanks, Trixie, very well written. I may use it a lot this season, when trying to explain why I like fruitcake.

In other words, let's bump your answer up a bit so that maybe more people will notice it.

[Trixie]

RE: Fruitcake...I don't get it

 

Now Bilbo, let's not go overboard!

 

Wink,

La Trix