AN UNFORTUNATE PRACTICE BY AN ESCORT

[dcguy20]

Wait, are the guys that Michael Wayne is referring to in this thread, and the guy referenced in "bullied into writing a review" the same? I was getting Jock and LivingLA confused. I didn't get the impression that the escort in the "Bullied" thread was from DC.

[+ WmClarke]

What I don't understand is this: there are sooooooooo many gorgeous, hunky, talented , smart, take-you-to-the-moon escorts that I can't choose sometimes who to make love to first, even if I had the time and money to REALLY pursue this fascinating hobby, and yet some of us can't seem to make it all work. So much agida and hand wringing. Did someone get fucked, sucked, whipped, rimmed, bound, jacked or stroked? Good!

 

I know I am also one of the agitated, hand-wringers, but I just had three glasses of wine and m feeling no pain, er.... expansive. So here's my self advice.

 

I say, give me liberty or give me death! Give me 90 days and 100 grand and I will fuck my way to the East Coast, never worrying about Escort of the year, sampling all the juiciest men along the way. Utah! Colorado! Nebraska! Illinois (Greg!!!!), Pennsylvania! Canada! ( Why not?) Massacusetts! Until I'm laid out dead in Times Square with a withered cock, shrunken balls and the biggest smile in Ameruca. If only!! Stop worrying about the rules of the game and go fuck somebody!!! The defense rests!!

 

Life is a banquet and most poor suckers are starving- Mame Dennis

The only thing better than @glennnn is glennn+wine.

[+ Lance_Navarro]

Oops! Oh, oh, oh!!!!!! What a good idea!!! Thanks, Truereview!

 

Alright, Mr. Demille, I'm ready for my close-up!

[LivingnLA]

Wait, are the guys that Michael Wayne is referring to in this thread, and the guy referenced in "bullied into writing a review" the same? I was getting Jock and LivingLA confused. I didn't get the impression that the escort in the "Bullied" thread was from DC.

 

I don't believe so @dcguy20, the guy I was talking about did go through DC in his East Coast tour (according to another forum user), but he's based in the West. I think @Michael Wayne is talking about a DC local of some ill repute. But, I might be wrong since I'm unclear who he's talking about. I'm sure the mystery will resolve itself somehow.

[+ glennnn]

Alright, Mr. Demille, I'm ready for my close-up!

 

Lmao! How did you come to know me so well, so quickly? You truly are a magician, Corizon.

[kevininsa]

I am so confused. Who are we talking about?

+1

[+ Travis69]

Mickey hasn't returned my PM so if anyone has the info and would be so kind as to share it it would be greatly appreciated. Enguiering minds want to know!!!!

[coriolis888]

another tempest in a thimble

 

if you're not naming names, this does no good. you're not saving anyone a headache. can you provide anything else to save other folks from this problem?

 

Exactly!

 

Without naming the culprit is like clapping with only one hand - nothing gets accomplished.

[coriolis888]

While I am not disputing that this is going on. I do find it odd that someone who doesn't care if they see him again hasn't written a review calling him out.

 

Good analysis.

[MichiganMan]

Question. What good is a "escort review" site when the discussed escort isn't named? Or is it just me?

[+ José Soplanucas]

We are talking about more than one guy here. Mikey did send me a private with the name of the guy he was referring to, PM me if you are interested.

I think he made a mistake by starting this thread without naming its very subject.

[LivingnLA]

My understanding is you're not supposed to name an escort in the forum when you're recounting a bad experience. I presume Daddy wants such things submitted as reviews so he can do some verification around the story.

 

In my situation, which resulted in a locked thread, I shared my experience without naming the escort. I thought about and actually did submit a review to Daddy but I retracted it after hearing from a forum member who knew the escort and told me about his violent temper.

 

Given all the unknowns during the time I was blacked out, I couldn't risk exposure or worse, him showing up and physically threatening me or my family the next time he comes through LA. Yes, paranoid and highly unlikely, but such is life. So, he will continue to have perfect RM reviews and all positive Daddy reviews because clients like me and the others who've PM'd me have too much to lose.

[coriolis888]

 

I think he made a mistake by starting this thread without naming its very subject.

 

 

I think you are correct. A nameless accusation causes too much speculation and doubts.

[LADoug1]

Mickey hasn't returned my PM so if anyone has the info and would be so kind as to share it it would be greatly appreciated. Enguiering minds want to know!!!!

 

Same here.

[+ stevenkesslar]

if you're not naming names, this does no good. you're not saving anyone a headache. can you provide anything else to save other folks from this problem?

 

Naming names becomes nothing more than a he said she said you pissed in my cherrios bitch fest.

 

Yes and no.

 

The bad thing about coming forward and saying Bill Cosby drugs and sexually abuses women is it is a ridiculous claim that nobody would believe. Only a horrificly racist mean-spirited asshole trying to destroy Bill Cosby would say such a thing.

 

The good thing about coming forward and saying Bill Cosby does this is that at this point most people, including me, believe it's true. He is innocent until proven guilty in the eyes of the law. But if one of the victims had named names earlier it could have protected other victims who had no reason to suspect he was a menace.

 

Now I'm going to play the "I won't say who most of us know I am talking about" game. Yesterday I spent 2 hours at breakfast with a highly respected escort and we went through, again, a discussion about whether or how badly I fucked up by not heeding the warning he gave me over a year ago to avoid an escort who I now know is a dangerous menace, and is likely the subject of this and other current threads. I know for a long list of reasons that he is a menace. The most recent is because this escort sent me a long, ranting, menacing email that amounts to extortion and threats against this website itself. He did this two days ago, which is why the subject came up at breakfast. This escort is also an idiot. I have refused to speak with him for over half a year, and he should realize by now that any threat he makes against me or anyone I care about will achieve exactly the opposite of what he intends. Instead of bullying me into submission, I will make a point to expose him by saying he is a menace and a threat.

 

Here are the two sides of the "cheerios bitch fest" I want to amplify.

 

I am grateful to the escort I was having breakfast with for having warned me. The warning did make a difference in the way I conducted myself, because I always had my guard at least slightly up. I made mistakes, but because of the red flag I made fewer mistakes and I think lesser ones. The escort in question is a complex and complicated individual and it is understandable to me that many people want to avoid jumping to a negative conclusion about him. A number of people who claim to have a "sixth sense" have told me recently that they had a bad feeling about him from the start, but to me that all falls into the category Seaboy is talking about: you can't indict somebody - especially publicly - because you have "bad feelings" about them. I learned from the Meyers Briggs test a long time ago that I am more sensate than intuitive, and I am very data driven. So I am not surprised and I don't apologize for the fact that I chose to rely on my senses and on data to make judgments, as opposed to intuition that is not my strong suit, anyway.

 

To that point, when I received the warning over a year ago, I asked a series of questions to the escort who was warning me: does he have bad reviews? do people post bad things about him on the forum? what exactly did he do wrong to you or anyone else? I was told he had countless great reviews and it was obvious from the limited research I did that many people made comments about him on the forum that were mostly very flattering and seemed very sincere. Since the "case" against this escort was at best vague, I decided that he was "innocent until proven guilty." I proceeded in ignoring the warning - partially. I still really don't deeply regret anything I did, because I always had a small red flag flying in the back of my mind, which gradually grew bigger, even if I didn't advertise it. With some people it simply takes time to prove that very talented and capable individuals are actually menaces - the Bill Cosby story. Bill Cosby is a perfect example because people like him - incredibly smart, incredibly successful, very gifted, including being gifted at hiding their flaws, and deeply abusive - are particularly menacing and dangerous and hard to call out. They don't advertise their abuse. They hide it until they find ways to intimidate and threaten you. This is very likely part of some mental illness that may be difficult if not impossible to control.

 

The escort who I was having breakfast with bordered on blaming me, for having said, done, and written things that simply helped propel the menacing escort forward. I feel that was an appropriate feeling for him to have. I also feel my two responses were appropriate. First, nobody was held harmless. It didn't matter whether you opened the door to the menace or slammed it shut - many, many, many people feel like they were menaced and harassed, regardless of what they did or didn't do. It is clear to me now that the amount of abuse each individual received mostly was a factor of this escort's calculation of what he wanted from them, and had little to do with how each individual responded to the relentless, annoying, and often threatening behavior. Second, I would have greatly appreciated it if the escort who tried to warn me had been able to give me specific examples of behavior that clearly said: "stay the fuck away." I think it is fair to say that he didn't get close to doing that based on any fair, objective standards. Most of what he said was based on intuition and gut feelings and emotional reactions that turned out to be 100 % correct.

 

I am now in a position to be incredibly specific about exactly why this escort is a menace. I will happily post the menacing and threatening rant I received via email a few days ago, if that is deemed appropriate. Mostly I decided to ignore it (other than to forward it to Daddy with a three letter message: "FYI") because I don't want to fuel the fire, and the matter seems to be resolved. Except for this. Right now there are multiple posts up about innocent people who are hiring this escort now, and being threatened and harassed by him now. It seems perfectly reasonable to me that they would hire somebody based on the fact that most of what's said about him BY NAME is good and all the horrendous data about the threats and abuse never actually mentions his name, like what I am writing right now. I'm not sure how well doing it this way helps protects new innocent lambs from being led to slaughter.

 

My personal experience suggests this to me. Any adverse consequences that happened to me are ones I absolutely feel I deserved based on the calculated risks I took. Nothing particularly bad really happened to anyone I know personally. It all falls in the category now of "the guy's an asshole, just ignore him." If I feel bad about anything, it is not anything that happened to me, it is that I propelled and promoted somebody in a way that may have helped him ingratiate himself to new victims. Having said that, this escort is perfectly capable of promoting himself. I don't know my promotion added to any harm in any way. What could be viewed as adding to the harm is calculated silence about what I or others now know and why we know it.

 

It seems there should be a fair, objective, and data-driven way for the dozens if not hundreds of victims of this escort to come forward and warn others, by name, that this individual is a menace. I won't personally do it by name until I know whether and how it is appropriate to do so. But at this point the evidence is so damning and irrefutable that I do feel measures should be taken to warn people about this escort BY NAME so they can avoid becoming new victims.

 

I mostly agree with Seaboy's call for fairness. This is a complicated matter. But I can also say I truly wish somebody who was genuinely trying to protect me from danger had been able to provide me with just that - clear, objective, credible data - a year ago.

 

Do others feel like we need to have a way of issuing a clear warning by name to anyone who reads or will read this forum, and if so how should that actually be done to be fair about it? Or do you feel it is better to simply assume it's "buyer beware" and the only additional people who may hire him that deserve to know are ones who will read smoke signals and follow bread crumbs?

[LivingnLA]

Yes and no.

 

The bad thing about coming forward and saying Bill Cosby drugs and sexually abuses women is it is a ridiculous claim that nobody would believe it. Only a horrificly racist mean-spirited asshole trying to destroy Bill Cosby would say such a thing.

 

The good thing about coming forward and saying Bill Cosby does this is that at this point most people, including me, believe it's true. He is innocent until proven guilty in the eyes of the law. But if one of the victims had named names earlier it could have protected other victims who had no reason to suspect he was a menace.

 

Now I'm going to play the "I won't say who most of us know I am talking about" game. Yesterday I spent 2 hours at breakfast with a highly respected escort and we went through, again, a discussion about whether or how badly I fucked up by not heeding the warning he gave me over a year ago to avoid an escort who I now know is a dangerous menace, and is likely the subject of this and other current threads. I know for a long list of reasons that he is a menace. The most recent is because this escort sent me a long, ranting, menacing email that amounts to extortion and threats against this website itself. He did this two days ago, which is why the subject came up at breakfast. This escort is also an idiot. I have refused to speak with him for over half a year, and he should realize by now that any threat he makes against me or anyone I care about will achieve exactly the opposite of what he intends. Instead of bullying me into submission, I will make a point to expose him by saying he is a menace and a threat.

 

Here are the two sides of the "cheerios bitch fest" I want to amplify.

 

I am grateful to the escort I was having breakfast with for having warned me. The warning did make a difference in the way I conducted myself, because I always had my guard at least slightly up. I made mistakes, but because of the red flag I made fewer mistakes and I think lesser ones. The escort in question is a complex and complicated individual and it is understandable to me that many people want to avoid jumping to a negative conclusion about him. A number of people who claim to have a "sixth sense" have told me recently that they had a bad feeling about him from the start, but to me that all falls into the category Seaboy is talking about: you can't indict somebody - especially publicly - because you have "bad feelings" about them. I learned from the Meyers Briggs test a long time ago that I am more sensate than intuitive, and I am very data driven. So I am not surprised and I don't apologize for the fact that I chose to rely on my senses and on data to make judgments, as opposed to intuition that is not my strong suit, anyway.

 

To that point, when I received the warning over a year ago, I asked a series of questions to the escort who was warning me: does he have bad reviews? do people post bad things about him on the forum? what exactly did he do wrong to you or anyone else? I was told he had countless great reviews and it was obvious from the limited research I did that many people made comments about him on the forum that were mostly very flattering and seemed very sincere. Since the "case" against this escort was at best vague, I decided that he was "innocent until proven guilty." I proceeded in ignoring the warning - partially. I still really don't deeply regret anything I did, because I always had a small red flag flying in the back of my mind, which gradually grew bigger, even if I didn't advertise it. With some people it simply takes time to prove that very talented and capable individuals are actually menaces - the Bill Cosby story. Bill Cosby is a perfect example because people like him - incredibly smart, incredibly successful, very gifted, including being gifted at hiding their flaws, and deeply abusive - are particularly menacing and dangerous and hard to call out. They don't advertise their abuse. They hide it until they find ways to intimidate and threaten you. This is very likely part of some mental illness that may be difficult if not impossible to control.

 

The escort who I was having breakfast with bordered on blaming me, for having said, done, and written things that simply helped propel the menacing escort forward. I feel that was an appropriate feeling for him to have. I also feel my two responses were appropriate. First, nobody was held harmless. It didn't matter whether you opened the door to the menace or slammed it shut - many, many, many people feel like they were menaced and harassed, regardless of what they did or didn't do. It is clear to me now that the amount of abuse each individual received mostly was a factor of this escort's calculation of what he wanted from them, and had little to do with how each individual responded to the relentless, annoying, and often threatening behavior. Second, I would have greatly appreciated it if the escort who tried to warn me had been able to give me specific examples of behavior that clearly said: "stay the fuck away." I think it is fair to say that he didn't get close to doing that based on any fair, objective standards. Most of what he said was based on intuition and gut feelings and emotional reactions that turned out to be 100 % correct.

 

I am now in a position to be incredibly specific about exactly why this escort is a menace. I will happily post the menacing and threatening rant I received via email a few days ago, if that is deemed appropriate. Mostly I decided to ignore it (other than to forward it to Daddy with a three letter message: "FYI") because I don't want to fuel the fire, and the matter seems to be resolved. Except for this. Right now there are multiple posts up about innocent people who are hiring this escort now, and being threatened and harassed by him now. It seems perfectly reasonable to me that they would hire somebody based on the fact that most of what's said about him BY NAME is good and all the horrendous data about the threats and abuse never actually mentions his name, like what I am writing right now. I'm not sure how well doing it this way helps protects new innocent lambs from being led to slaughter.

 

My personal experience suggests this to me. I don't deeply regret anything I did, and any adverse consequences that happened to me are ones I absolutely feel I deserved based on the calculated risks I took. Nothing particularly bad really happened to anyone I know personally. It all falls in the category now of "the guy's an asshole, just ignore him." If I feel bad about anything, it is not anything that happened to me, it is that I propelled and promoted somebody in a way that may have helped him ingratiate himself to new victims. Having said that, this escort is perfectly capable of promoting himself. I don't know my promotion added to any harm in any way. What could be viewed as adding to the harm is calculated silence about what I or others now know and why we know it.

 

It seems there should be a fair, objective, and data-driven way for the dozens if not hundreds of victims of this escort to come forward and warn others, by name, that this individual is a menace. I won't personally do it by name until I know whether and how it is appropriate to do so. But at this point the evidence is so damning and irrefutable that I do feel measures should be taken to warn people about this escort BY NAME so they can avoid becoming new victims.

 

I mostly agree with Seaboy's call for fairness. This is a complicated matter. But I can also say I truly wish somebody who was genuinely trying to protect me from danger had been able to provide me with just that - clear, objective, credible data - a year ago.

 

Do others feel like we need to have a way of issuing a clear warning by name to anyone who reads or will read this forum, and if so how should that actually be done to be fair about it? Or do you feel it is better to simply assume it's "buyer beware" and the only additional people who may hire him that deserve to know are ones who will read smoke signals and follow bread crumbs?

 

That's a serious post. Thank you for sharing it. I have no idea who you're talking about, but you know I am in the camp of people who "feel like we need to have a way of issuing a clear warning" about such escorts. The challenge are the evidentiary requirements before such a warning is made and how to minimize retaliatory harassment and/or revenge on those providing the evidence. I don't have a good answer here and I've been thinking about it for some time since my horrible experience last year.

[BabyBoomer]

Yes and no.

 

The bad thing about coming forward and saying Bill Cosby drugs and sexually abuses women is it is a ridiculous claim that nobody would believe it. Only a horrificly racist mean-spirited asshole trying to destroy Bill Cosby would say such a thing.

 

The good thing about coming forward and saying Bill Cosby does this is that at this point most people, including me, believe it's true. He is innocent until proven guilty in the eyes of the law. But if one of the victims had named names earlier it could have protected other victims who had no reason to suspect he was a menace.

 

Now I'm going to play the "I won't say who most of us know I am talking about" game. Yesterday I spent 2 hours at breakfast with a highly respected escort and we went through, again, a discussion about whether or how badly I fucked up by not heeding the warning he gave me over a year ago to avoid an escort who I now know is a dangerous menace, and is likely the subject of this and other current threads. I know for a long list of reasons that he is a menace. The most recent is because this escort sent me a long, ranting, menacing email that amounts to extortion and threats against this website itself. He did this two days ago, which is why the subject came up at breakfast. This escort is also an idiot. I have refused to speak with him for over half a year, and he should realize by now that any threat he makes against me or anyone I care about will achieve exactly the opposite of what he intends. Instead of bullying me into submission, I will make a point to expose him by saying he is a menace and a threat.

 

Here are the two sides of the "cheerios bitch fest" I want to amplify.

 

I am grateful to the escort I was having breakfast with for having warned me. The warning did make a difference in the way I conducted myself, because I always had my guard at least slightly up. I made mistakes, but because of the red flag I made fewer mistakes and I think lesser ones. The escort in question is a complex and complicated individual and it is understandable to me that many people want to avoid jumping to a negative conclusion about him. A number of people who claim to have a "sixth sense" have told me recently that they had a bad feeling about him from the start, but to me that all falls into the category Seaboy is talking about: you can't indict somebody - especially publicly - because you have "bad feelings" about them. I learned from the Meyers Briggs test a long time ago that I am more sensate than intuitive, and I am very data driven. So I am not surprised and I don't apologize for the fact that I chose to rely on my senses and on data to make judgments, as opposed to intuition that is not my strong suit, anyway.

 

To that point, when I received the warning over a year ago, I asked a series of questions to the escort who was warning me: does he have bad reviews? do people post bad things about him on the forum? what exactly did he do wrong to you or anyone else? I was told he had countless great reviews and it was obvious from the limited research I did that many people made comments about him on the forum that were mostly very flattering and seemed very sincere. Since the "case" against this escort was at best vague, I decided that he was "innocent until proven guilty." I proceeded in ignoring the warning - partially. I still really don't deeply regret anything I did, because I always had a small red flag flying in the back of my mind, which gradually grew bigger, even if I didn't advertise it. With some people it simply takes time to prove that very talented and capable individuals are actually menaces - the Bill Cosby story. Bill Cosby is a perfect example because people like him - incredibly smart, incredibly successful, very gifted, including being gifted at hiding their flaws, and deeply abusive - are particularly menacing and dangerous and hard to call out. They don't advertise their abuse. They hide it until they find ways to intimidate and threaten you. This is very likely part of some mental illness that may be difficult if not impossible to control.

 

The escort who I was having breakfast with bordered on blaming me, for having said, done, and written things that simply helped propel the menacing escort forward. I feel that was an appropriate feeling for him to have. I also feel my two responses were appropriate. First, nobody was held harmless. It didn't matter whether you opened the door to the menace or slammed it shut - many, many, many people feel like they were menaced and harassed, regardless of what they did or didn't do. It is clear to me now that the amount of abuse each individual received mostly was a factor of this escort's calculation of what he wanted from them, and had little to do with how each individual responded to the relentless, annoying, and often threatening behavior. Second, I would have greatly appreciated it if the escort who tried to warn me had been able to give me specific examples of behavior that clearly said: "stay the fuck away." I think it is fair to say that he didn't get close to doing that based on any fair, objective standards. Most of what he said was based on intuition and gut feelings and emotional reactions that turned out to be 100 % correct.

 

I am now in a position to be incredibly specific about exactly why this escort is a menace. I will happily post the menacing and threatening rant I received via email a few days ago, if that is deemed appropriate. Mostly I decided to ignore it (other than to forward it to Daddy with a three letter message: "FYI") because I don't want to fuel the fire, and the matter seems to be resolved. Except for this. Right now there are multiple posts up about innocent people who are hiring this escort now, and being threatened and harassed by him now. It seems perfectly reasonable to me that they would hire somebody based on the fact that most of what's said about him BY NAME is good and all the horrendous data about the threats and abuse never actually mentions his name, like what I am writing right now. I'm not sure how well doing it this way helps protects new innocent lambs from being led to slaughter.

 

My personal experience suggests this to me. I don't deeply regret anything I did, and any adverse consequences that happened to me are ones I absolutely feel I deserved based on the calculated risks I took. Nothing particularly bad really happened to anyone I know personally. It all falls in the category now of "the guy's an asshole, just ignore him." If I feel bad about anything, it is not anything that happened to me, it is that I propelled and promoted somebody in a way that may have helped him ingratiate himself to new victims. Having said that, this escort is perfectly capable of promoting himself. I don't know my promotion added to any harm in any way. What could be viewed as adding to the harm is calculated silence about what I or others now know and why we know it.

 

It seems there should be a fair, objective, and data-driven way for the dozens if not hundreds of victims of this escort to come forward and warn others, by name, that this individual is a menace. I won't personally do it by name until I know whether and how it is appropriate to do so. But at this point the evidence is so damning and irrefutable that I do feel measures should be taken to warn people about this escort BY NAME so they can avoid becoming new victims.

 

I mostly agree with Seaboy's call for fairness. This is a complicated matter. But I can also say I truly wish somebody who was genuinely trying to protect me from danger had been able to provide me with just that - clear, objective, credible data - a year ago.

 

Do others feel like we need to have a way of issuing a clear warning by name to anyone who reads or will read this forum, and if so how should that actually be done to be fair about it? Or do you feel it is better to simply assume it's "buyer beware" and the only additional people who may hire him that deserve to know are ones who will read smoke signals and follow bread crumbs?

 

Steven, the escort Mikey is talking about IS NOT who you think it is. I sent Mikey a PM to find out who it was, something you apparently didn't do.

 

~Boomer ~

[bigvalboy]

Yes and no.

 

Or do you feel it is better to simply assume it's "buyer beware" and the only additional people who may hire him that deserve to know are ones who will read smoke signals and follow bread crumbs?

 

This...

 

And yes I actually read your entire post, and YES it's "buyer beware" Perhaps this should be said privately, but you just finished calling me, in so many words, an old aging whore, and that was the nice part so I'll just say this here. First. Boomer is correct, it's not who you think it is, and second "let it go." You know we love you, but why keep going down this road. You have more class in your little finger than he has in his whole body...so...Block him, ignore him, delete him, have your lawyer send him a letter, whatever...Life's too short. Don't let him get to you. Move on. He's old news. Letting this simmer can't be good for the soul.

 

BVB steps off soap box and exits stage left.

[+ Keith30309]

I'm puzzled... my mother warned me about snacking on lead paint chips.

 

The reviews ARE the means by which menacing escorts are publicly identified... a defined, fair process by which both sides of an encounter can be heard and the reader decide who is in the right and make his decision accordingly.

I read the first couple of dozen reviews of the individual I understand to be in question and they are effusive in their praise of him, frequently using language that borders on being obsequiously flattering. There wasn't a single negative recounting. That's not a pattern I'd expect to see where reviews are coerced.

 

How can the formal review process be this broken?

[+ stevenkesslar]

Steven, the escort Mikey is talking about IS NOT who you think it is. I sent Mikey a PM to find out who it was, something you apparently didn't do.

 

~Boomer ~

 

You are correct. I didn't. At this point I'm not personally concerned about protecting myself from a DC escort, or actually any escort. To vent briefly, I was burned enough by the trust I put out, arguably naively, that I won't do it again soon. In the future, I will err on the side of "you are guilty until you prove yourself innocent."

 

I could have and arguably should have started yet another thread based on yet another threat, in this case a very serious one. I chose not to because there's already multiple threads going on the same topic - abusive, threatening, unacceptable behavior. I'm less interested in outing one escort relating to one threat or even a series of threats, and more interested in raising a serious question about what set of conditions allow us to fairly, accurately, and publicly say something like this: "Steven Kesslar is a menace who threatens clients in the following manner .... 1) xxx, 2) xxx, 3) xxx." As Jimboivyo and I think LivingnLA said that is what could protect future clients who won't have a clue whether or not to read some past thread about some unnamed escort or send somebody a PM. That's not an efficient way to share information broadly if we feel the information should be broadly shared.

 

Now that it seems we know for sure we are talking about at least two different abusive escorts that actually underlines to me why there is value in not simply looking at this as a matter of one bad apple to warn each other privately about, but as a matter of general policy relating to where and how to draw a line to identify a bad apple as what it is.

 

Essentially we are seeing the death of professionalism among many escorts and the return of hustling......... it is a SAD day!

 

I am very grateful to Michael for this post but there is one contrary reaction I have to this statement I want to make.

 

This is not a sad day to me. Whoring and politics are the two oldest professions in the book, and whoring is apparently the older one. I wear the label "whore" as a badge of honor. To me what Michael is doing is not sad. It is honorable. Whether it is the case that from Day 1 of my profession 90 % of my colleagues are just hustlers and 10 % are professionals, or 90 % are professionals and 10 % are hustlers, I can't say. What I can say to use Mikey's terminology is we want to encourage professionalism, not hustling. That's the value in this discussion to me.

[LivingnLA]

This...

 

And yes I actually read your entire post, and YES it's "buyer beware" Perhaps this should be said privately, but you just finished calling me, in so many words, an old aging whore, and that was the nice part so I'll just say this here. First. Boomer is correct, it's not who you think it is, and second "let it go." You know we love you, but why keep going down this road. Block him, ignore him, delete him, have your lawyer send him a letter, whatever...Life's too short. Don't let him get to you. Move on. Letting this simmer can't be good for the soul.

 

BVB steps off soap box and exits stage left.

 

I don't know the history of what y'all are discussing nor do I wish to know, but I am troubled by the casual "buyer beware" because the very nature of the reviews on Daddy and other sites are supposed to be to provide honest feedback so that the escort and the client community have different points of view about the experience provided. In my one and only experience so far, I did a fair bit of due diligence and saw only positive things. Sadly, the reality did not remotely reflect the reviews, and I was lucky enough to only be robbed. It could've been much worse. Given the private feedback I've received from multiple forum members as I've shared my experience, quite a few people knew this perfectly-reviewed escort was not so perfect. Yet, all have kept this info quiet because they don't want to risk being a target for harassment or revenge. I can't fault them for guarding their own safety, but it renders reviews as ultimately dysfunctional and calls into question the validity of supposedly vetted public reviews when they create a false sense of quality for a potentially dangerous encounter for a newbie client who trusts them.

 

I don't have any easy answers. I'm sure Daddy does his best. This site seems to be head and shoulders better than any other I've stumbled across. I'm merely expressing my thoughts on this personally relevant discussion. Feel free to ignore me.

[+ stevenkesslar]

Don't let him get to you. Move on.

 

I agree 1000 %. My first reaction when I read the private emailed rant was to laugh. It's absurd. It took me about 30 seconds to decide what to do. Forward it to Daddy with an uncharacteristically brief 3 letter message: "FYI." He more than anybody is the person who needs to know. And I was done with this a long time ago.

 

He's old news. Letting this simmer can't be good for the soul.

 

I disagree 1000 %. Whichever individuals are being discussed here, the threats and intimidation are not old news. They are happening right now. Before I wrote what I wrote on this and other posts about threats being made now to clients, I calculated that none of this may have anything to do with anyone I know. That's not really the point. The point is that it's not good for the soul to be silent about what we know if we in fact really think what is happening right now and what will likely continue to happen in the future goes beyond some standard of what is acceptable behavior.

 

Michael started this thread and other people have started other threads using all kinds of derogatory adjectives because they feel something unacceptable is happening and people need to be warned now. So it's fair to discuss how that warning should be given.

 

Several people have made the point that saying "an unnamed escort is going to fuck you over real good, so don't hire him" is of almost no value. I'll say what I said already, but stronger: if this is information people deserve to know, private messages among a privileged few are not the way to say it. Assuming that this is some escort in DC that I've never met, you are right that it has absolutely nothing to do with me, at all. I don't understand why we should be worried about protecting an escort with what is at least alleged to be a documented pattern of abusing clients who trusted him.

 

Let me now flip 100 % and make exactly the opposite argument. One reasonable "escort standard" is that negative information about an escort belongs in a review, and a review only. I can live with that standard. The upside is it will keep a lot of crap that can be considered "gossip" or character assassination off this forum. The predictable downside is it will further incent a handful of aggressive escorts to use threats and intimidation to try to force clients to write positive reviews and to threaten or punish clients who write anything negative about them in a review. Right now several of them seem to be doing just that.

 

I can also live with a "client standard" that if some escort you hired threatens you, about writing a review or anything else, it's your job to grow some balls and blast the shit out of him in a review, period. Don't bring it to this forum. But I know there is an entire section of the forum called "The Deli" that is specifically about 411's on escorts people want to hire. I assume the information considered appropriate to share by name probably has more to do with whether their cock is really 8 x 6. If it is okay to talk about the actual size of their cock, by name, I'd argue it's okay to talk about the fact that they conduct themselves like vile human beings. But if people feel that the crap belongs in the review and everything else should be considered "gossip" and kept private, I can live with that.

 

What I HAVE NOT moved on from are at least three things: 1) all the questions that have been lingering out there since last year, based on the Rentboy bust, about what standards a "good" escort website should actually have; 2) my feeling that in general this website is on balance a huge positive influence that encourages the best behavior, not the worst, and 3) my personal and arguably selfish interest in playing the "diva" role of the aging whore who wants to feel I left things better than I found them.

 

On that note, since you are absolutely correct that I did just have some fun at your expense, BVB, let me step away from the humor and say that you are a shining example of somebody who has consistently been a voice of moderation and reason. You've called out escorts who needed to be called out, but you've also argued for respect, grace, and dignity. I'd say I wish I was just like you when I grow up. But all kidding aside, we know you're actually not the one who is the pathetic, aging whore around here.

[bigvalboy]

Let me now flip 100 % and make exactly the opposite argument. One reasonable "escort standard" is that negative information about an escort belongs in a review, and a review only. I can live with that standard. The upside is it will keep a lot of crap that can be considered "gossip" or character assassination off this forum. The predictable downside is it will further incent a handful of aggressive escorts to use threats and intimidation to try to force clients to write positive reviews and to threaten or punish clients who write anything negative about them in a review. Right now several of them seem to be doing just that.

 

I can also live with a "client standard" that if some escort you hired threatens you, about writing a review or anything else, it's your job to grow some balls and blast the shit out of him in a review, period. Don't bring it to this forum. But I know there is an entire section of the forum called "The Deli" that is specifically about 411's on escorts people want to hire. I assume the information considered appropriate to share by name probably has more to do with whether their cock is really 8 x 6. If it is okay to talk about the actual size of their cock, by name, I'd argue it's okay to talk about the fact that they conduct themselves like vile human beings. But if people feel that the crap belongs in the review and everything else should be considered "gossip" and kept private, I can live with that.

 

Well said...and we mostly agree here.

 

"negative information about an escort belongs in a review, and a review only. I can live with that standard. The upside is it will keep a lot of crap that can be considered "gossip" or character assassination off this forum."

 

I personally think that it is a dangerous precedent to set, to start throwing around on a public forum vague innuendos, and accusations about escorts and clients. In that form, it is nothing more than gossip. Just because someone calls themselves a forum member and claims to be part of this community, doesn't mean they are being truthful. When members hide behind anonymity, it is impossible to know where the truth lies. Saying it is so, doesn't make it so. If someone feels they have been wronged, and they feel the need to call that escort out, do it in a review, allow that escort a chance to respond, and let people judge for themselves. At least that way, Daddy is involved, and there is some level of control in the process. Other than that, the rest is just bullshit gossip.

 

I've been on the receiving end of an escort and his friends who came to this forum with innuendos and gossip, over a hire that went south, in which they perceived me to be the guilty party. It was a two years despicable troll behavior, constant harassment, and attempts at character assassination that spiraled out of control, and despite the harassment, I never once divulged who the escort was, because I did not write a negative review. In hind-site I should have, but that southern lady in me kept getting in the way..Anyway, I'm all for general discussions of client and escort conduct, behavior, or honesty, or... lack there of, but other than that, this is no place for that sort of gossip.

 

And to be clear, I have the utmost respect for Mikey. I think he has brought and maintained a standard in this industry that should be applauded, and so I understand his motivation, I just think there is a fine line that shouldn't be crossed...

[bigvalboy]

On that note, since you are absolutely correct that I did just have some fun at your expense, BVB, let me step away from the humor and say that you are a shining example of somebody who has consistently been a voice of moderation and reason. You've called out escorts who needed to be called out, but you've also argued for respect, grace, and dignity. I'd say I wish I was just like you when I grow up. But all kidding aside, we know you're actually not the one who is the pathetic, aging whore around here.

 

Well said, and how do I not "like" this. OK...I smell money, so next time you're in FTL, you're buying me dinner.

[+ glennnn]

This forum needs to continue to exist, because:

1. It uniquely meets a need in many lives.

2. The huge majority of participants here are wonderful and honest.

3. OUR world would be much more dangerous and lonely without it.

4. This crisis can be solved.

5. We can't allow a few negative events to destroy us.

 

So I'm in for whatever needs to be done!