How Painful Would It Be?

[Guest zipperzone]

I was reminded, after reading some posters remarks about Tab Hunter, that an older friend of mine is going through a deep depression.

 

One of the reasons for this appears to be that he has just turned 60 and his former good looks have forsaken him. He looks old, tired, withered and not really all that attractive anymore (although I still consider him to have an extremly attractive personality).

 

In his younger days - early to late 20s, he was movie star gorgeous, and had the kind of looks that enabled him to walk into a bar or a party and go home with practically anyone of he chose.

 

His depression combined with the Tab Hunter/Troy Donahue mentions elsewhere got me to thinking how desperate some guys must feel when they look at pictures of themself in their prime as compared to what the mirror shows today.

 

I'd be interested in hearing any thoughts you might have on this subject and how you think one might cope should you find yourself in similar circumstances.

[Samai139]

Depression is/can be very, very painful and debilitating---not just brought on by age, but many of life's happenings. I'm now 64, but suffered major depression at age 29-30. I not only resigned from a job I loved, but withdrew totally from most social contacts; literally went months without speaking to anyone; came close to suicide. Foolishly, I did not seek professional help or help from friends or relataives. What brought me around again? Leaving the US and taking a job abroad. I believed and still believe that our American culture is a petri dish for depression, and leaving it temporarily or permanently can help.

But to address your question: How do people approaching 60 or in their 60's deal with REALITY and that is what aging is, make no mistake. I can only answer through my personal experience and through observation of others. For me? It's having a routine which allows me to stay physically in good shape---exercise, eating correctly, not smoking, notdoing drugs and drinking limited amounts of alcohol. I went through the rigamarole of trying to "save" my hairline, and spent a bloody fortune on hair replacement, et. al, and decided about three years ago, f--- it and went au naturel---balding, buzzed cut with a well-trimmed beard---both gray. Wrinkles? Lines? Sure, they are there, from a life time of going to the beach, playing tennis, living in tropical climates. But keeping yourself clean and fit and dressed appropriately can make up for some of ravages of age.

Advice: Don't obsess with what you "used to look like" and what you "used to be able to do." Sure, it's great to think about the stud you were, but that's gone. Period. Enjoy the wisdom you have acquired with age, be glad that you are still alive and take pleasure in the fact that you have time to do things you want to do and can smile at the absurdities of "youth" and those who are obsessed with "staying young."

[Guest BronxTom]

Depression can hit anyone at anytime. I have seen beautiful, young, wealthy men - with boyfriends - suffer from despression. Although that's not to say the stages on the life cycle don't come with their particular challenges.

 

I would recommend speaking with your friend and letting him know you'e noticed he's depressed, let him know you care about him and will be here for him, and encourage him to find a professional to speak with.

 

I'd also avoid describing him as "old, tired, withered and not really all that attractive anymore." That's very well what could be in his mind. A healthier spin would to begin talking about the natural effects of the aging process and the challenges that come along with again - as well as the benefits.

 

I agree with Samai139. Our culture does breed depression.

 

Good luck.

 

 

 

 

 

BronxTom

[Guest BronxTom]

Depression can hit anyone at anytime. I have seen beautiful, young, wealthy men - with boyfriends - suffer from despression. Although that's not to say the stages on the life cycle don't come with their particular challenges.

 

I would recommend speaking with your friend and letting him know you'e noticed he's depressed, let him know you care about him and will be here for him, and encourage him to find a professional to speak with.

 

I'd also avoid describing him as "old, tired, withered and not really all that attractive anymore." That's very well what could be in his mind. A healthier spin would to begin talking about the natural effects of the aging process and the challenges that come along with again - as well as the benefits.

 

I agree with Samai139. Our culture does breed depression.

 

Good luck.

 

 

BronxTom

[Holden]

"I was reminded, after reading some posters remarks about Tab Hunter, that an older friend of mine is going through a deep depression"

 

I have been in love with Tab Hunter since the 50s....even today, would do anything to meet him. Am I to gather from the above quote that Tab Hunter is going thru a depression?? I know that he is now in his early 70s, supposedly writing his autobiography which should be released next year and, when last I saw him on tv a few months ago, still looked very good for his age. Know that he had heart by-pass surgery.

Where can I read about this or find out more....

 

Anything you can supply would be appreciated.

[BobbyB]

>… how desperate some guys

>must feel when they look at pictures of themselves in their

>prime as compared to what the mirror shows today.

 

If being gorgeous is all they were ever about, then I would presume the desperation curve of the 'Former Gorgeous' would be pretty steep.

 

But there's an uglier dimension to this subject that Samai139 touched upon when he said, "American culture is a Petri dish for depression." There is no doubt that the media started and now has driven this phenomenon to illogical but predictable heights. One only has to look at any magazine cover, or turn on any TV program to see chiseled jaws and bee-stung lips spewing dialog that no one at their age could possibly have the experience or wisdom to enunciate, to know that anyone outside the category of "eye candy" is just not welcome to the party anymore.

 

And it goes downhill from there. I doubt anyone with any genuine life experience on this forum has failed to see glaring examples of blatant age bias in the workforce. The rate and speed at which numerous, if not all, companies throw away their precious veteran assets in order to cut costs...I'm sorry, "downsize"...in order to renege on the promise of retirement is mind numbing and forebodes a future that will be very scary for all. The signs that age is not appreciated are obvious, are everywhere, and are coming to a life near you.

 

I appreciate and understand that the young aren't generally interested sexually in an age group 'further down the road.' I wasn't at that age either, and I fully accept and appreciate that. But what has truly astounded me is the total lack of respect, if not overt repugnance much of today's young people have not just for old people, but virtually anyone just north of their age group. Add to that the shrinking circle of friends through death and natural attrition, and the loneliness and rejection of the Baby Boomer set can start to have profound impact. A wise older friend of mine once told me, "These aren't the golden years; they're the rust years!"

 

To survive this new paradigm, we are all going to have to plumb the deepest part of our character to find our answers. Personally, I am just weeks away from following Samai139 sage advise and am leaving the country to live abroad. Hooboy is now pretty much a full-time ex-patriot, too, and I’m sure could offer some insights of his own. Regardless, I leave you with another one of my older friend’s pearls of wisdom: ”About the time you hit 40 start making younger friends, or eventually you won't have friends left at all." This may be harder today than at any other time in history – but do try!

 

- BobbyB

[trilingual]

There was a long article in yesterday's NY Times about how stressful work has become in the U.S. and the health effects of so much stress. Depression is one outcome of a stressful life. Coupled with the other stresses we often experience as gay men, it's understandable that so many of us succumb to depression.

 

Fortunately, it's treatable (for the most part). Modern pharmacology works wonders, and anyone experiencing depression for an extended period of time should look into medication. The meds can bring you back to "normal" pretty quickly. Once you're not deeply depressed, you can consider some talk therapy to deal with issues that may be causing you to become depressed (like aging, losing your looks, dealing with the loss of friends and family, moving from the world of work into retirement, etc.) In some cases the depression may be strictly chemical in nature, and all a person may need are the meds to stay "normal." In other cases, the depression may be triggered by external causes (like the loss of a loved one, or loss of a job) and talking about it can help end the depression and keep it from returning. Sometimes our own thought processes can lead to depression, and "cognitive therapy" can help people identify their own bad mental habits that are contributing to their depression. (In my own case, for example, I was an "all or nothing" kind of person, meaning I'd set difficult goals for myself and then when I couldn't fully meet the goal I'd feel like a failure and become depressed. The cognitive therapy helped me identify that and also taught me how to get out of that cycle by breaking tasks into smaller, more manageable goals that I could accomplish in stages, setting myself up for success rather than failure.)

 

Reading about your formerly gorgeous friend reminds me that, at this stage of life, there have been advantages to not being the cutest or hottest guy around. When I was younger I was reasonably cute, but certainly no head-turner. So that forced me to develop other abilities in order to attract friends and partners. I didn't have to suddenly figure that out late in life, like some very good looking people who only had to rely on their physical attraction to be able to interact socially. But that doesn't mean that someone in that situation can't learn some new tricks! Some aspects of aging really suck, and it's always a shock to look into the mirror and see a (still reasonably attractive) nearly sixty year old face staring back at me, when I expect to see myself as I was in my early thirties! But I really appreciate the wisdom I've acquired over time and wouldn't exchange that for anything. Nor would I exchange my gray hair, or do much in the way of cosmetic surgery to change my looks (OK, there are a few wrinkles I could do without, some bags under the eyes that could go, and the incipient wattle under my chin that I really hate!) But I wouldn't really want to look 20 again. Once was enough! Hopefully your friend and some of the other formerly-gorgeous can also find satisfaction in who they are now, and not just in what they once were. Nothing is truly going to make us younger again, and being comfortable with who you are and where you are in life are big factors in finding contentment.

[Will]

From time to time the subject of clinical depression has come up on this board, and it's no surprise. After all, it's common in the population generally; and gay men have their share of it, and perhaps more than is fair. Everything I've read on this thread so far is full of good sense, good advice, and level-headedness. Certainly, I have nothing to add on that score.

 

On the more general problem -- and it is one, as anyone who's gone/going through it can attest -- of getting older, however, there's always a lot to share. The first, I suppose, is the fact that I'm not sure I've ever met any man, myself included, who didn't have a tough time in the first five years of his 60s, for whatever reason.

 

Lately, I've learned a few things that have helped me a lot. For what they're worth, I pass them on here:

 

1. Learn that there are plenty of attractive men who are attracted exclusively to men over 50 and even -- believe it or not -- over 60. Don't believe me? Go to http://www.SilverDaddies.com

 

2. Rather than thinking of the 60s as the end of something, think of it as the beginning of the last 1/3 of your life. It's the ONLY 1/3, so far as I can tell, for which I, and not somebody or something else, gets to choose how and where I'll live it. It's also the only 1/3 that doesn't have a script of things that I must do in order to qualify for something.

 

3. Hanging around to drool over goodlooking younger men who just aren't available to me is bad for my health. And while several hundred dollars will purchase a few hours of illusion that the young man is, indeed, available to me, let's face it: he isn't. It's better, I think, for me to be where I can be realistic about myself and other people.

 

4. I've also discovered that there are many, many attractive, mature men of my own age who are wonderful to be with. I'm meeting them in gay venues that cater to serious-minded men with sexual interests that go beyond "hot-looking." I have found these in places like the Kalani Resort in Hawaii, Easton Mountain Retreat, near Albany, NY, and Gay Spirit Journeys in Asheville, NC.

 

5. Finally, I have learned that being realistic is the best possible defense against depression, as well as the best possible way to have a happy life. That has meant some very painful grieving over the fact that I will never have what I thought I was going to have twenty, thirty, forty years ago. For some men, though not for me, astonishing beauty tricked them into thinking that they were somehow entitled to be desired. I have discovered that a sense of entitlement is perhaps the most toxic attitude I can have about anything. I may not have felt entitled with regard to my sexual attractiveness, but I sure did with regard to other things. Only when I learned to release them did I begin to find my balance again.

 

"Begin" to find is the operative phrase here. As the saying goes, Growing old is not for sissies. And it's also not for solitaries. One way to guarantee myself a whole lot of loneliness is to waste hours of cruising the net for something that I cannot have, and never will have.

[buzz]

As a gay man who passed 60 several years ago, I can only say that I am enjoying life. Probably because I never was all that attractive, or never thought so anyway, I don't mourn my "lost looks." I have had a reasonably successful career, much of it outside the U.S., and I am about to retire. I have found that once I passed 50, there are a lot of younger, attractive men who are turned on to an older man. Though I am not as horny as I was in my youth, I still can have and enjoy sex with the hot men who seem to be turned on to me.

 

I take a lot of comfort in the Buddhist concept of age. Once you hit 60, you have completed the full range of the five 12-year cycles of the Asian zodiac, so the cycles start over again. In other words, life begins again at 60! It's like the odometer rolling over to zero. And as one guy said, at 60+ you have a lot of your life ahead of you.

 

I am looking forward to being out of the corporate rat race and able to plan my days just as I like. Several of my friends who have already retired say they are so busy with interesting projects that they don't know how they ever had time to hold down a job.

[Guest PocketPack]

Guys...

 

There is life even when you are "old"!

 

http://www.altagaymen.com/oldon.gif

[Guest PocketPack]

..and there is more to it

 

http://www.altagaymen.com/oldon1.gif

[Will]

Here's another URL that some people might find useful:

 

http://www.spiritjourneys.com

[+ Charlie]

Yesterday morning I finally managed to get through to my 92 year old uncle, right after he was allowed back into the ruins of his mobile home in Florida. There was no water, power or gas, and he said the place--his only home for the past 27 years--was probably permanently uninhabitable. He didn't know where he would go or what he would do. Yet there was no despair or depression in his voice. He has always accepted reality, whatever it was, and dealt with it, instead of indulging in self-pity.

 

That's pretty much my attitude toward aging. I wasn't gorgeous when I was young, but life was fine; I'm not gorgeous now, and life is still fine. I am always somewhat surprised to discover that I seem to be about as attractive to other men now as I was at 20, 30 or 40--they're just different men. The most important thing is to be interested in the world around me and enjoy whatever is available.

[Guest Tristan]

Bobby, you made some very good points. I regret that I did not make those friends when I was fourty. But then I was a late bloomer in completely accepting my sexual orientation.

 

Just to add to your comment about younger people's incredible lack of respect for older people, or even slightly older people. I believe this is a particularly American thing. The American culture in general has never showed respect for older people. I believe that in most European countries, older people have always been respected and are given the benefits they need to maintain their health and lifestyle. America has become a disposable society. Unfortunately, that includes people as well as all the things made in China. That's a sad commentary on our society. And in the gay world, given its obsession with the young and beautiful, I think it's even worse.