The Paul Hamm Story: What's Happening?

[Knabegeil]

On Tuesday night(?) NBC and Tim Daggett offered the following commentary, complete with video.

 

Even if Young was allowed the additional 0.1 point mistakenly removed by the judges from his starting score, he still would have lost. The reason why that is so is because only three "holds," that is rest or stop positions, are permitted, and one of the three is required. The video clearly shows that Young did four holds. If the judges had caught that, he would have lost 0.2 points and Paul would have still won.

 

Now, of course, if the tape is reviewed for Young, it should also be reviewed for Paul.

 

Hanging Chads anyone? Or, in this case, hanging Pauls and/or Youngs.

 

But my real point is why hasn't this development received any attention? Nothing on aol. I found only a very oblique reference to this point in the New York Times today (Wed., Aug. 25). Let't get the full story out.

[Guest showme43]

i have a couple "holds" i'd like to try on Hammy :9

[+ deej]

Every commentator I've heard belly up to this issue has made the point that the reason gymastics events aren't reviewed by videotape is because ALL of the scores would change, both up and down. The results of the entire competition would likely change.

 

Gymnasts went into this competition knowing the rules.

 

Of course, judging in the men's gymastics was fishy from the get-go. Having the Japanese judge change scoring criteria in the days before the all-around, forcing two of the Americans to change routines they'd practiced for a year, just wasn't kosher. (And then the Japanese team took Gold... hmmmm.)

 

Then the fiasco where the audience literally halted the competition because of a too-low score for Nemov in the individual high bar ... well ... I don't think I've ever seen anything so remarkable.

 

I hope the IGF learned that they need to get their judging ducks in a row.

[GRoca]

As a former competitive gymnast, myself...it's unfortunate

that Paul Hamm is now looking like the bad guy. They booed

him right before his last high bar performance and he didn't

deserve that.

 

I think the fair thing to do ( but this is just my opnion)

was to give the Korean guy the gold, as well, eventhough he

performed the 4 holds in his routine that made for the .02

deduction.

 

Four years ago, they stripped the Romanian female gymnast

of her gold medal because she unknowingly took Sudafed. This

was a drug that is no longer on the "illegal list", but

she has to live with that nightmare forever. A few years ago,

during the winter Olympics, they awarded the Canadian skating

couple a gold after one of the judges admitted to being pressured

to giving the Russian couple the better marks. So, if they can

make such changes...why couldn't they have done it this time?

 

As for Nemov..he clearly had a much riskier high bar routine, ( believe me, I know) and received deductions, mainly because of

his landing. Paul Hamm performed a very clean routine and should

have received a decent score, but it looked really bad when Hamm received the score that he got...MUCH higher than deserved.

Cassini's routine was clearly a Gold, but Nemov didn't medal, at all.

 

Unfortunately, gymastics is an objective sport.

[eastbayguy]

>Then the fiasco where the audience literally halted the

>competition because of a too-low score for Nemov in the

>individual high bar ... well ... I don't think I've ever seen

>anything so remarkable.

>

>I hope the IGF learned that they need to get their judging

>ducks in a row.

 

You'd think all the associations and federations would realize this after a certain incident involving French skaters and judges. I thought that incident made enough of a furor that all Olympic judging would forever be in daylight and not darkness. Guess the summer and winter Olympics don't watch each other on TV?

 

--EBG

[Guest alanm]

Very few people are speaking up for Paul Hamm -- Matt Lauer and Al Roker from the "Today Show" said on Larry King last night that Hamm should give back his gold medal. As a result, Hamm is going on interviews shows himself. According to the NY Times, Hamm was going to call a press conference and give a power point presentation featuring the Korean's mistakes that were not scored by the judges. Thankfully, someone talked him out of it. Who knows what he will say tonight on Letterman, let's hope Paul doesn't do the power point.

[Guest ReturnOfS]

I think that Hamm and Young should be made to do a porn video together. The one who cums the most per hour is the one who should receive the gold. :9

[FrancoDiSantisxxx]

Judgment Day

 

The rules in gymnastics at the Olympic level are very clear. The Koreans should have protested after the scores were announced. They know this and, in fact, claimed that they did go speak to "one" unnamed judge. However, all of the judges have stated that no one approached them and the Koreans do not even claim to have followed up beyond this alleged conversation. A number of people, most of whom are non-Americans, have stated that they did not see any Koreans approach the judges after the meet.

 

In the case of the figure skating, it was proved that the judges knowingly judged unfairly and were potentially induced to do this for financial or other gains. Personally, I think awarding two golds defeats the point of any such competition. It is similar to all the local media who keep stating NOW that U.S.C. is about to defend their national championship without providing any of the context or qualification.

 

In most sporting events, there is unfortunately a certain number of opportunities for human and other error. There is also always the chance for Monday morning quaterbacking. However, sporting events are won or lost on the field of play based on the rules that all of the participants well knew in advance. In this regard, I do think that the changes by the judge from Japan certainly were curious at best and unfair at worst. Many of the medals which are stripped are done so due to appropriate application of the rules. Some sports do allow post meet contests. Gymnastics does not.

 

I think Paul Hamm has been badly served by many media commentators and, particularly, the people on NBC. The several interviews I saw with him, where he was point blank asked everything short of "shouldn't you give your medal back" or "isn't your medal tainted" were awkward and graceless positions to put him in. I personally think he answered and handled himself well and admirably.

 

Finally, I also personally think when you look at the totality of the games, at the number of competitions, the number of participants involved, that the games have gone reasonably smoothly. Is there room for improvement: certainly. But these should be put into effect prior to the Olympic trials of 2008, so that all the competitors know exactly what is involved and what they are facing.

[+ deej]

Bad Judgment Day

 

>I think Paul Hamm has been badly served by many media

 

Well said, if understated. NBC is also WAY overplaying Michael Phelps and the whole Mark Spitz record thing. The kid is wearing EIGHT Olympic medals! Who cares if two of 'em are Bronze?

 

But there's another price tag on the Hamm situation.

 

NBC interviewed Michael Phelps' manager this morning, who assessed the endorsement potential of some of the medalists from a Madison Avenue point of view.

 

On a scale of 1 to 10, where Phelps is a 10, he put Carly Patterson at about an 8. Hamm, who would otherwise be a 9 or 10, he said is around a 5 because of the controversy.

 

Unfortunately, no matter how the situation is resolved Hamm will forever remain the "contested Gold medalist". Peter Vidmar says he, himself, is still referred to as a "medalist in a boycotted Olympics". Never just "Olympic medalist".

 

These situations have a long, long shelf life.

[pierrot]

I think Nemov was cheated. It was another scandal just like the Canadian/Russian skaters a couple of years ago, only we don't know who got to the judges. Perhaps the Russian mafia again (remember they were involved in the skating incident).

Yes, Nemov took a step at the end of his routine. So did Hamm. Nemov got huge mark downs, even though he did the most difficult routine of the evening. It's very fishy.

It was unfortunate for Hamm that he was the one to benefit from it after the overalls problem.

I blame the officials for the overalls gold problem. They should have made the decision to award another gold, or whatever, but NEVER should have shifted the responsibility to Hamm, indicating that he should give it back. They are the judges, not him. He's just a kid who does gymnastics. Very cowardly of the gymnastics officials.

[Guest alanm]

RE: Bad Judgment Day

 

That's exactly why Katie Couric suggested that Hamm come forward and offer publicly to share the medal and Matt Lauer/Al Roker said that Paul should offer publicly to give up the medal. They were thinking about how this controversy will follow him for the rest of his life.

 

As with most things, it is easy for others to give advice. I agree with Couric. The Today folks and Alan M are not faced with having to make the decision only Paul Hamm is. After his appearance on Letterman last night, it appears that Hamm has made up his mind to

make no such offer. I can understand that in the heat of the controversy, anyone, let alone a young guy who seems to have lived a sheltered life, would come to that decision. Good luck to him either way.

[+ deej]

RE: Bad Judgment Day

 

>That's exactly why Katie Couric suggested that Hamm come

>forward and offer publicly to share the medal and Matt

>Lauer/Al Roker said that Paul should offer publicly to give up

>the medal. They were thinking about how this controversy will

>follow him for the rest of his life.

 

Well, the Today show crew isn't exactly the pinnacle of knowledge on things-Olympic, or even this particular sport. They only know what's on the cue cards.

 

The competition had rules that all contestants knew ahead of time. (If anyone has a rules beef, it's the Americans that had to change routines during the team competition.)

 

Paul Hamm would not have won the competition by .002 points without some damn flawless performances on all but one aparatus. His competitors were complicit, too. They handed this to him because EVERY MAN IN THE FIELD had major errors in their routines.

 

But you're right that you and I can't make the "in the moment" judgement call. Nor should the august "news" anchors Katie Couric, Matt Lauer, or Al Roker. They seem to have forgotten it's their job to report the news, not to create it.

 

I see NO reason Paul Hamm should relinquish/share his medal. The really sick thing is nothing is to be gained either way. The medal is tainted whether he shares it or not. There is no remedy.

[VaHawk]

RE: Bad Judgment Day

 

"I see NO reason Paul Hamm should relinquish/share his medal. The really sick thing is nothing is to be gained either way. The medal is tainted whether he shares it or not. There is no remedy."

 

IMO, the SICKEST thing is that so many of us are so anti-American or so pro-American, that it has to involve denigrating ourselves to the point that a young person, who is ONLY representing his country has to put up with such bullshit!

 

Paul Hamm won the gold medal, fair and square! And to all the so called holier than thou people, that demand him to surrender what he RIGHTFULLY won - go get a life!

 

Way to go Paul, don't give into these pc spouting jerks! Paul won the gold medal, in a subjectively judged sport, and as such was subjugated to the same questionable judging as everyone else who competed. Really, give the young man a break, as he didn't do ANYTHING wrong, as he WENT thru the same scoring process as EVERYONE else, and he WON! the gold medal!

 

Accept that FACT! and move on with your life, a life, btw, that should not be defined by who wins a medal in Olympic competition!

[Guest ReturnOfS]

RE: Bad Judgment Day

 

I understand how it would be a show of good will for America if Hamm decides to share his medal, but I actually believe that Hamm has made a very good case about why he should keep his medal to himself. As many people have stated, according to the Olympic rules the protests were too late, and Hamm does make a very good point that more points could had been taken away from the other gymnast's routine. I support him in that decision.

 

However deej does make a very good point about endorsements that I didn't think about before. I think that Paul Hamm is a little cutie, so the more endorsements he gets then the more times I get to his adorable self on ads and things. :+ If Paul Hamm decides to share his medal mainly to have a positive impact on his endorsement deals, I certainly would not look down on him. Hey, even the original greek athletes of 2500 years ago had sponsors. Plus even Paul Hamm has to pay bills. LOL

 

I support whatever Paul Hamm finally decides to do, but I hope that his decision won't have too much of a negative impact on endorsement deals for him.

 

Btw, if Paul Hamm does shares his medal with the Korean silver medal winner, would that mean that the bronze winner would get silver, and the 4th place person would move up to bronze?

[Ignoto]

RE: Bad Judgment Day

 

>IMO, the SICKEST thing is that so many of us are so

>anti-American or so pro-American, that it has to involve

>denigrating ourselves to the point that a young person, who is

>ONLY representing his country has to put up with such

>bullshit!

 

The sickest thing is that the Olympics have turned into another war between countries, as reflected in the attitude of the above comment, rather than a place where individual athletes can compete by representing only their own skills.

 

It's almost as sick that parents push their kids into these monomaniacal training routines as an alternative to letting them grow up normal. The only real issue is whether Hamm is going to live the rest of his damaged life, with or without this trinket.

[Guest alanm]

RE: Bad Judgment Day

 

Actually Paul Hamm needs people like Couric and Lauer now more than those who are experts in gymnastics. Couric and Lauer have expertly used their relatively minor talents to keep the "Today Show" number #1 in the morning for many years.

 

Hamm needs an expert in public relations to teach him how to presenting himself in a good light, as a nice guy. In Athens, Hamm sometimes came across as defensive and pedulant. The guy has got to learn how to sell cerial for God's sake!

[+ deej]

RE: Bad Judgment Day

 

>Btw, if Paul Hamm does shares his medal with the Korean silver

>medal winner, would that mean that the bronze winner would get

>silver, and the 4th place person would move up to bronze?

 

There is little precedent for this, so nobody knows. But it's moot at the moment anyway.

 

The IGF sent a letter to the USOC asking them to request of Hamm that he relinquish the medal. The USOC declined to pass on the request and now BOTH the USOC and the IOC are taking the position that the medal is his and his alone. It seems there are calmer heads prevailing finally. (And I'll bet someone at IGF is getting a Talking To.)

[fedssocr1]

RE: Bad Judgment Day

 

Actually the Korean who got screwed out of the gold medal won bronze. The other hot Korean boy won the silver. So if they ever did re-jigger the scores they would have to knock Hamm down to silver and the other Korean from silver to bronze.

 

FIG botched this whole thing so badly that nothing will change now. This is the problem with sports that are judged and don't have any sort of objectivity to the scoring. In the end all of the gymnastics medals will have a giant mental asterisk next to them.

 

Bud Greenspan's Olympic movie should be interesting. I would imagine it will have a large segment on this whole sport.

[AaronScottDC]

RE: Bad Judgment Day

 

>The sickest thing is that the Olympics have turned into

>another war between countries, as reflected in the attitude of

>the above comment, rather than a place where individual

>athletes can compete by representing only their own skills.

 

What do you mean that the "Olympics have turned into another war between countries"? Do you really think that the Olympics have JUST turned into a war between countries only now? I hope not. I am sure we all know just a little bit about the 1936 games in Berlin, the 1980 games in Moscow and the 1984 games in Los Angeles. If those games weren't HUGE political wars between countries, I don't know what would be considered so.

 

Aaron Scott DC

http://www.erados.com/AaronScottDC

http://www.male4malescorts.com/reviews/aaronscottdc.html

[Ignoto]

RE: Bad Judgment Day

 

>What do you mean that the "Olympics have turned into another

>war between countries"? Do you really think that the Olympics

>have JUST turned into a war between countries only now? I

>hope not. I am sure we all know just a little bit about the

>1936 games in Berlin, the 1980 games in Moscow and the 1984

>games in Los Angeles. If those games weren't HUGE political

>wars between countries, I don't know what would be considered

 

The 1936 games were known for their racial overtones -- Hitler was more than happy when white Americans of Germanic descent won medals.

 

After 84 years, the modern Olympics had by 1980 indeed degenerated into a political tool. In fact, the era of nationalism may have reached its peak, and the concern now is commercialism. Instead of compiling medal totals for Ukraine and Paraguay, what we will probably be doing in 20 years is comparing the count for Coca Cola with that of Hyundai.

 

In any case, national pride should not be an excuse for sanctioned child abuse. What the Hamm twins parents did to them, is no different from what the Rumanian regime was doing 20 years ago.