Visiting North Korea?

[+ FreshFluff]

Has anyone here been? I've read a bunch of blogs from people who went on supervised tours (the only way you can get in), but some managed to see some "off limits" areas.

 

Of course, any visitor is giving badly needed foreign currency to the regime. And the State Department recommends that American citizens not visit. But I'm fascinated.

 

This group made it to the hidden 5th floor of the biggest hotel in Pyongyang, which appears to be a surveillance center. They claim that two of their tour guides were spies, although not very good ones.

http://monsoondiaries.com/2011/08/23/piso-cinco/

 

This guy took a one-on-one tour of the countryside. His photos got him banned from entering the country again.

http://ericlafforgue.com/wp-content/uploads/north-korean-delete-this.pdf

[seaboy4hire]

I say GO! But don't anger the NK authorities cause if you do you'd be on your own.

 

Hugs,

Greg

[+ FreshFluff]

Well, Seaboy, I'm mostly curious at this point. I feel like a visit to China or Japan is due before I go for the DPRK.

[sincitymix]

Has anyone here been? I've read a bunch of blogs from people who went on supervised tours (the only way you can get in), but some managed to see some "off limits" areas.

 

Of course, any visitor is giving badly needed foreign currency to the regime. And the State Department recommends that American citizens not visit. But I'm fascinated.

 

This group made it to the hidden 5th floor of the biggest hotel in Pyongyang, which appears to be a surveillance center. They claim that two of their tour guides were spies, although not very good ones.

http://monsoondiaries.com/2011/08/23/piso-cinco/

 

This guy took a one-on-one tour of the countryside. His photos got him banned from entering the country again.

http://ericlafforgue.com/wp-content/uploads/north-korean-delete-this.pdf

 

Last time I went to korea to visit family with my mother, we visited the DMZ. We had to sign waivers attesting that if North Korea raided across the DMZ and took us hostage, the US would NOT pay a ransom, and would not attempt a rescue. If NK shot at us across the border, US soldiers WOULD protect us, and attempt to get us to safety, but would not fire back across the border. We assume all risk for being there. We then had to put on a huge American flag sign around out neck. (other countries had to put on flags of their origin.. I guess certain countries are more preferable or non preferable for ransom and or capture? )

We were given instructions on how to take pictures.. never point the camera at the north Korean soldiers. never look them directly in the eye. always follow the instructions of the armed us solider.

There was one moment of excitement when we did go into a room with a table in the middle, with a stripe running down the room and across the length of the table (its were the armistice was signed and negotiated) basically 1 side was north Korean 1 side was south korea. we were allowed to walk around the table, going in north korea and back to the south.. with very clear warnings that if north kroean soldiers rushed into the room and grabbed us while we were on the north side, the us soldiers with us could NOT cross the painted line.

all in all it was an interesting experience, though I don't think I would want to actually visit north korea. certainly not as a us citizen.

 

also south Korean news has reported that there is a famous historical mountain range that has significant meaning to both south and north Koreans, suddenly has Chinese flags on the peaks claiming Chinese ownership.

south korea is not very happy about this.. and north korea is oddly silent.

[+ sync]

Never been there and would never go there as it is now.

[+ WilliamM]

Well, Seaboy, I'm mostly curious at this point. I feel like a visit to China or Japan is due before I go for the DPRK.

 

I have visited Japan and Hong Kong. They are very much worth a visit, especially Japan. I would say China and Russia would be the countries I would recommend before North Korea. Yes, I know Hong Kong is part of China (last comment not directed at FF).

[+ Truereview]

Closest I got to DPRK was Seoul, South K (about 120 miles from Pyongyang). Lived in Seoul for 6 months. It is huge... About 4million more in population than NYC metro. I hear Pyongyang is smaller. I enjoyed Seoul more than Beijing but not as much as HK & Tokyo. I felt oddly out of place as a gay man in all cities except HK. Hope you get to experience any of these cities...added great perspective to my life and how little I really knew about my own identity and home country. You see things so differently once you step out of your comfort zone into something very different!

[+ WilliamM]

Closest I got to DPRK was Seoul, South K (about 120 miles from Pyongyang). Lived in Seoul for 6 months. It is huge... About 4million more in population than NYC metro. I hear Pyongyang is smaller. I enjoyed Seoul more than Beijing but not as much as HK & Tokyo. I felt oddly out of place as a gay man in all cities except HK. Hope you get to experience any of these cities...added great perspective to my life and how little I really knew about my own identity and home country. You see things so differently once you step out of your comfort zone into something very different!

 

There are gay bars in Toyko. I am quite surprised by your experience there. I do agree that Hong Kong is better. Both places do give you a different perspective on life.

[+ Truereview]

There are gay bars in Toyko. I am quite surprised by your experience there. I do agree that Hong Kong is better. Both places do give you a different perspective on life.

 

Good point WilliamM. Im not much of a gay bar type nor do I think inclusion/acceptance can be measured by the # of gay bars in a city - not saying that was your point. my comment was more about my feeling like I could not be comfortably out at work or in public. Culturally, I just felt a disdain for my orientation that I had not experienced as much of in western mega cities. So it was an adjustment for me in Tokyo. With that said, I'm far more than just my orientation so I did love the experience and LOVED Tokyo and surrounding areas.

[sincitymix]

There are gay bars in Toyko. I am quite surprised by your experience there. I do agree that Hong Kong is better. Both places do give you a different perspective on life.

there are gay bars around all the US army and US air force bases in seoul too best time of my life was getting away from my relatives when I was visiting, walked down the street near them, get propositioned in Korean or very bad are you kidding me, are you really saying "fun time with soldier, number 1 fuck." by an American army stud, look at him smile, and say in perfect English " Sorry I don't speak Korean. Im an American, but id love to do whatever you just asked me."

sadly, they get red faced and walk away fast stammering something about mistake.. :(

[+ WilliamM]

Sorry I don't speak Korean. Im an American, but id love to do whatever you just asked me."

 

Great post. I have missed out by never visiting S. Korea.

[Guest]

The idea of a U.S. citizen visiting North Korea seems a bit nutty in my opinion. As the State Department link you quoted states: The Department of State has received reports of DPRK authorities detaining U.S. citizens without charges and not allowing them to depart the country. North Korea has even detained several U.S. citizens who were part of organized tours. Do not assume that joining a group tour or using a tour guide will prevent North Korean authorities from detaining you or arresting you. Efforts by private tour operators to prevent or resolve past detentions of U.S. citizens in the DPRK have not succeeded in gaining their release. If the DPRK authorities decide they want a human bargaining chip, are you prepared to spend months or maybe even years in horrid conditions as that bargaining chip?

When visiting North Korea, you're only allowed to see specific places anyway, so it's not as if you'll be seeing anything unique. It's not as if DPRK has a particularly beautiful sight such as the Taj Mahal, Iguazu Falls, or Angkor Wat. I view a visit to DPRK similarly to climbing Mt. Everest or some other dangerous mountain ascent. Is it really worth putting one's life and health at risk just so one can brag about it later? If one needs an adrenaline thrill to make one's life interesting, I would advise some other activity such as sky diving. At least if one dies sky diving, it's a really quick death.

There are so many interesting places on this earth to explore and admire, I don't understand why a person would put himself in serious danger by visiting a very dangerous place. I would also never visit a number of other countries unless there's a regime change. This would include Iran (in which one has both the potential of being kidnapped by the government to be used as a bargaining chip, plus the added danger of visiting a country that has a death penalty for gays) and other seriously anti-gay countries such as Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Uganda, and Jamaica.

[+ WilliamM]

The idea of a U.S. citizen visiting North Korea seems a bit nutty in my opinion. As the State Department link you quoted states: The Department of State has received reports of DPRK authorities detaining U.S. citizens without charges and not allowing them to depart the country. North Korea has even detained several U.S. citizens who were part of organized tours. Do not assume that joining a group tour or using a tour guide will prevent North Korean authorities from detaining you or arresting you. Efforts by private tour operators to prevent or resolve past detentions of U.S. citizens in the DPRK have not succeeded in gaining their release. If the DPRK authorities decide they want a human bargaining chip, are you prepared to spend months or maybe even years in horrid conditions as that bargaining chip?

When visiting North Korea, you're only allowed to see specific places anyway, so it's not as if you'll be seeing anything unique. It's not as if DPRK has a particularly beautiful sight such as the Taj Mahal, Iguazu Falls, or Angkor Wat. I view a visit to DPRK similarly to climbing Mt. Everest or some other dangerous mountain ascent. Is it really worth putting one's life and health at risk just so one can brag about it later? If one needs an adrenaline thrill to make one's life interesting, I would advise some other activity such as sky diving. At least if one dies sky diving, it's a really quick death.

There are so many interesting places on this earth to explore and admire, I don't understand why a person would put himself in serious danger by visiting a very dangerous place. I would also never visit a number of other countries unless there's a regime change. This would include Iran (in which one has both the potential of being kidnapped by the government to be used as a bargaining chip, plus the added danger of visiting a country that has a death penalty for gays) and other seriously anti-gay countries such as Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Uganda, and Jamaica.

 

I tend to agree, but only because I am not particularly interested in North Korea. It took me too long to visit Russia (2005) and Bosnia (2013). I learned from that experience, so Ukraine and some of the other former Soviet Union countries, like Georgia, are on my travel list.

[+ FreshFluff]

As the State Department link you quoted states: The Department of State has received reports of DPRK authorities detaining U.S. citizens without charges and not allowing them to depart the country.

 

One of the guys detained was Matthew Todd Miller, who came to North Korea to "seek asylum" and basically begged to be arrested. The DPRK authorities didn't know what to make of him. Another was a Christian missionary running a tour operation, and his tour company may have been proselytizing, which is obviously a huge offense there. A third did absolutely nothing wrong: He merely left a Bible behind in his hotel room.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-22379241

 

I was more playing with the idea than seriously considering going. I'm interested in propaganda (among other things), and I wanted to see how it's used in a closed society like North Korea. I was especially fascinated by the propaganda on the hidden floor of the hotel, which are perhaps meant for DPRK citizens would might be tempted by the free world on which they're eavesdropping.

 

If the DPRK authorities decide they want a human bargaining chip, are you prepared to spend months or maybe even years in horrid conditions as that bargaining chip?

 

That and my distaste for propping up the regime made me decide against it, at least until there's a different regime.

[marylander1940]

They could just frame him dropping a Bible in his hotel room and accusing him or promoting Christianity which is illegal in NK.... After that they could use him as a bargaining cheap to bring some attention to their regime and get concessions.

 

why the F... bother?

[+ WilliamM]

I was playing with more playing with the idea than seriously considering going. I'm interested in propaganda (among other things), and I wanted to see how it's used in a closed society like North Korea. I was especially fascinated by the propaganda on the hidden floor of the hotel, which are perhaps meant for DPRK citizens would might be tempted by the free world on which they're eavesdropping.

 

Now that things have quieted down a bit in eastern Ukraine, how about Odessa which seems to never have seen much fighting or Kiev in the western part of the country. Ukraine is beautiful in the summer, perhaps all the fighting will be over by then.

 

As I wrote earlier I am sorry that I waited so long to visit Russia and Bosnia:)

[geminibear]

Now that things have quieted down a bit in eastern Ukraine, how about Odessa which seems to never have seen much fighting or Kiev in the western part of the country. Ukraine is beautiful in the summer, perhaps all the fighting will be over by then.

 

As I wrote earlier I am sorry that I waited so long to visit Russia and Bosnia:)

 

I hear Syria is beautiful this time of the year.

[+ WilliamM]

I hear Syria is beautiful this time of the year.

 

I am posted with some decent knowledge of Ukraine, geminibear. I have a friend whose son has been a journalist in Ukraine for a very long time. He recently visited his son near Donetsk and they traveled by bus to Odessa.

[sincitymix]

One of the guys detained was Matthew Todd Miller, who came to North Korea to "seek asylum" and basically begged to be arrested. The DPRK authorities didn't know what to make of him. Another was a Christian missionary running a tour operation, and his tour company may have been proselytizing, which is obviously a huge offense there. A third did absolutely nothing wrong: He merely left a Bible behind in his hotel room.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-22379241

 

I was playing with more playing with the idea than seriously considering going. I'm interested in propaganda (among other things), and I wanted to see how it's used in a closed society like North Korea. I was especially fascinated by the propaganda on the hidden floor of the hotel, which are perhaps meant for DPRK citizens would might be tempted by the free world on which they're eavesdropping.

 

 

 

That and my distaste for propping up the regime made me decide against it, at least until there's a different regime.

 

For the missionaries and the guy who left a bible behind, I am sure they were told NOT to proselytize. Even the act of leaving a bible behind is considered Proselytizing. I am sure he wanted the maid to have contact with the word of god. They wanted to be martyrs.. either that or they think im an American/british/etc etc citizen. they cant touch me.

 

I just don't know what these "Activists" are expecting when they go into north korea. They are lucky they weren't executed, or sent to a work camp for life. did they think they were only going to get a slap on the wrist and just deported?