NYC's Townhouse

[Tonyko]

It seems that every aging Hollywood diva stepped into that part--Ginger Rogers, Betty Grable and many others (famously Pearl Bailey.) I saw a revival with Channing and she was priceless. Someone suggested the part to Jack Benny, who said he would consider it only if George Burns played Vandergelder.

Yes. Martha Raye Dorothy Lamour Betty Hutton Betty Garret many others, somewhere there's photos side by side of ALL of them in SAME costume and I swear it's not that easy to tell any of them apart. (except Pearl

[Tonyko]

Mary Martin was approached first early on for "My Fair Lady," "Funny Girl" and "Mame" for Broadway. She was not English ("My Fair Lady"), Jewish ("Funny Girl") or the right type ("Mame). I was likely a joint decision amongst the producers and Martin & her husband-manager. At some point Mary Martin (not long after "South Pacific" and "Peter Pan") decided to move on.

 

I am not saying that Barbra Streisand should have turned down "Hello, Dolly." But, I believe it would have been better movie with an older, more experienced star.

THANK YOU

[Tonyko]

Yes. Martha Raye Dorothy Lamour Betty Hutton Betty Garret many others, somewhere there's photos side by side of ALL of them in SAME costume and I swear it's not that easy to tell any of them apart. (except Pearl

Mary Martin was approached first early on for "My Fair Lady," "Funny Girl" and "Mame" for Broadway. She was not English ("My Fair Lady"), Jewish ("Funny Girl") or the right type ("Mame). I was likely a joint decision amongst the producers and Martin & her husband-manager. At some point Mary Martin (not long after "South Pacific" and "Peter Pan") decided to move on.

 

I am not saying that Barbra Streisand should have turned down "Hello, Dolly." But, I believe it would have been better movie with an older, more experienced star.

Anyone wants a FUN EASY book read, "Diary Of A Mad Playwrite". James Kirkwood's (PS Your Cat Is Dead etc) chronicles of a production of his ill fated play about two aging stars STARRING (well, ditto) Mary Martin and Carol Channing. A FUN read!

[+ WilliamM]

I saw Kirkwood's play, "Legend!" which lasted 13 months on the road, but never played New York or London. Now that was a project that both Mary Martin and Carol Channing should have turned down. I do not think "Legends!" recouped, but maybe only because of 7 perfroemances a week, not 8.

 

Yes, the book is good, a lot better than the play!

[+ bigjoey]

It seems that every aging Hollywood diva stepped into that part--Ginger Rogers, Betty Grable and many others (famously Pearl Bailey.) I saw a revival with Channing and she was priceless. Someone suggested the part to Jack Benny, who said he would consider it only if George Burns played Vandergelder.

 

Saw the original with Channing but was blown away by Pearl Bailey. She was amazing and it was a love fest with the audience; she "owned" the audience and had them in the palm of her hand. I remember that after the curtain calls, the audience remained seated and Pearl Bailey came out on the runway that extended into the audience and talked to the audience and took questions. A fantastic evening in the theater with a great entertainer.

[+ WilliamM]

One more response

 

"Dolly" was written for a not young not thin not so pretty loud brassy widow who's ship had sailed, it was written for Ethel. And even thou she couldn't open in it and Channing became synonomous with the role, when Ethel DID take over the role.

 

Merman was ending two and half years with "Gypsy." The producer David Merrick called Merman in one of the last cities on the "Gypsy" tour, and she immediately said no to "Hello, Dolly." She was tired and had significant back problems. Yes years later, Merman did play Dolly on Broadway, but for a limited run.

 

My favorite Merman story. She went to see Lauren Bacall in "Applause" on opening night. Merman had never heard Bacall sing. Five or six notes into Bacall's first song, Merman said, "Jesus!" Of course, everyone knew Merman's voice. Not sure whether Bacall heard her. At intermission, Merman went backstage and asked Bacall if she could use her "powder room." No singing lessons though.

[+ goosh69]

OK, guys! I've gotten the picture, and I live in California. Please get back to the Townhouse, for I just might be enticed to visit when I hope to be back in New York, City

in 2016. Is this venue currently comprised of older men and escorts primarily?

 

They use the term in the Bay Area too.

[mmk123]

only a group of queens could take a thread about the Townhouse and escorts and turn it into a discussion about musicals and Broadway legends.

 

(not that there is anything wrong with that-I think any thread on here could be turned into a discussion about Broadway diva's)

[Andrew]

I've heard the term used here in SF too. For the longest time I was puzzled by the tunnel reference. Which tunnel? The Caldecott? When I learned it was an imported NYC term it made more sense.

Good point on the "tunnel" question. Maybe the BART tube from OAK and into the City.

[+ FreshFluff]

I"M talking about the diff between a lonely 60-something widow singing "Before The Parade Passes By" and a pretty 26 year old girl doing it .

 

The song, as I understand it, is about the approach of the character's sell-by date. Hello Dolly is supposed to be set at the turn of the 20th century, so a 26-year-old actress, or even a 23-year-old, would be perfect for that number.

[+ FreshFluff]

I once saw came across the online dating profile of an NJ man who specified that non-Manhattan residents need not apply.

 

For the first time, probably ever, Queens is a desirable place to live as opposed to "wouldn't be found dead living there." It was the only place left for affordable apartments with easy access to Manhattan.

 

Long Island City is heating up, but it remains a difficult sell on the pick up scene. From a sex perspective, guys are better off living in Manhattan with multiple roommates.

 

The excuse is that it simply takes too long to get between the boroughs and Manhattan. But distance is relative, of course. It's amazing how close Greenwich is.

[Tonyko]

The song, as I understand it, is about the approach of the character's sell-by date. Hello Dolly is supposed to be set at the turn of the 20th century, so a 26-year-old actress, or even a 23-year-old, would be perfect for that number.

LOL She's a lonely old WIDOWWWWWWW who's spent the last TWENTY YEARS finding love for everyone else

[+ Gar1eth]

The song, as I understand it, is about the approach of the character's sell-by date. Hello Dolly is supposed to be set at the turn of the 20th century, so a 26-year-old actress, or even a 23-year-old, would be perfect for that number.

 

LOL She's a lonely old WIDOWWWWWWW who's spent the last TWENTY YEARS finding love for everyone else

 

She was 27 in 1969 when the movie came out. So she was a child prodigy Yenta at the age of 7. Besides if I can employ 'suspension of disbelief' regarding people singing in perfect tune in the middle of a street with a hidden orchestra chiming in, suspending disbelief regarding Barbra's age is nothing. It's one of my favorite movies from childhood. You can't shake my love.

 

Gman

[+ WilliamM]

She was 27 in 1969 when the movie came out. So she was a child prodigy Yenta at the age of 7. Besides if I can employ 'suspension of disbelief' regarding people singing in perfect tune in the middle of a street with a hidden orchestra chiming in, suspending disbelief regarding Barbra's age is nothing. It's one of my favorite movies from childhood. You can't shake my love.

 

I understand your liking for Streisand because I saw her on stage in two Broadway musicals before her first film.

 

The musicals were, as follow: "I Can Get It For You Wholesale" and "Funny Girl." "Wholesale" was in a Boston out-of - teown tryout before New York. it most have been like Ethel Merman and Mary Martin, who both became stars upon first performances on Broadway (in 1930 and 1938 respectively)

[+ Gar1eth]

I understand your liking for Streisand because I saw her on stage in two Broadway musicals before her first film.

 

The musicals were, as follow: "I Can Get It For You Wholesale" and "Funny Girl." "Wholesale" was in a Boston out-of - teown tryout before New York. it most have been like Ethel Merman and Mary Martin, who both became stars upon first performances on Broadway (in 1930 and 1938 respectively)

 

 

Lucky guy!!!Those would have been so cool to see!!

 

Gman

[+ FreshFluff]

LOL She's a lonely old WIDOWWWWWWW who's spent the last TWENTY YEARS finding love for everyone else

 

Twenty? Having watched Barbra in the part, I thought she worked for a few years and then took a few years off, putting her at maybe 30. I assumed that her husband was older. But I mostly watched the musical numbers.

 

My favorite part is the dinner with Walter Matthau.

[+ FreshFluff]

Well I say "nay" back lol. You're talking about production values which is always true in a movie version of a "one perspective" 4th wall stage production no matter how brilliant the cast.

 

I know what the fourth wall is, but what do you mean by a 4th wall stage production? Why are the production values more important for these kinds of movies?

[+ Gar1eth]

Twenty? Having watched Barbra in the part, I thought she worked for a few years and then took a few years off, putting her at maybe 30. I assumed that her husband was older. But I mostly watched the musical numbers.

 

My favorite part is the dinner with Walter Matthau.

 

I think she was 27 or so at the time of the movie. But I don't mind as I'm suspending my disbelief. I could easily imagine her being in her mid-30's, and the plot timeline could work well with that if she was married in her teens as was common. Look at Ermengarde. She doesn't look that far from early teens, and she wants to marry Ambrose. Juliet after all was only 13.

 

I know what the fourth wall is, but what do you mean by a 4th wall stage production? Why are the production values more important for these kinds of movies?

 

I think Tonyko is referring to the fact that a play is stuck inside a (usually )proscenium type theater where the action is limited. But a movie can be more expansive due to large sound stages and location shoots.

 

Gman

[+ WilliamM]

But I mostly watched the musical numbers

 

I know what the fourth wall is, but what do you mean by a 4th wall stage production? Why are the production values more important for these kinds of movies?

 

As I mentioned above, I was very lucky to see Barbra Streisand in two musicals before she appeared in films. In fact, I have never seen the film version of "Funny Girl," just Streisand in the stage version. It took me 40 years to see "The Sound of Music," which I saw on Broadway with Mary Martin first. To be fair to my pal, Gman, there are many, many film musicals I have never seen. And not just because I saw the musical on stage first. I just do not enjoy movie musicals.

[+ Gar1eth]

I just do not enjoy movie musicals.

 

While I don't like all-I love many of the classic movie musicals. One of the first movies I remember seeing was Mary Poppins. I would probably have been about 3 or 4. I also have vague memories of seeing The Sound Of Music with my family when I was 4 or 5, Thoroughly Modern Millie when I was 6, and Funny Girl when I was 7. I have to admit Mary Poppins has held up better then The Sound Of Music. I think I saw Oliver with a school friend when I was 9. And then there were Finian's Rainbow, Dr. Doolittle, Fiddler On The Roof, Mame,and Camelot. Not all have held up as well. But I loved them all at the time. Millie, Dolly, Mame, and Funny Girl remain among my favorites.

 

Gman

[Tonyko]

I know what the fourth wall is, but what do you mean by a 4th wall stage production? Why are the production values more important for these kinds of movies?

YAH it's basically you're in your living room and they take one wall out and the people in the theater can see in lol that's what we're looking at in a stage prod. And natch when it comes to big showy musicals, that can never compare to what you can do in a film version, In Sunday Clothes in Dolly which the first person mentioned there's crane shots helicoptor shots an entire town and train station circa 1900 Yonkers hundreds of extras a complete period train riding down the Hudson to NYC etc, on the stage it was 30 people in front of a set singing lol. Some film versions hipped it up and made it work in a era like the 70's when a movie musical norm wouldn't have been cool, like Cabaret. Same with Chicago and Dreamgirls. But SOME WERE BETTER ON THE STAGE. "A Chorus Line" to me is best examp, it was MADE to be watched on a theater stage. the movie version is gawd awful which is why many don't even know they made one

[Tonyko]

Twenty? Having watched Barbra in the part, I thought she worked for a few years and then took a few years off, putting her at maybe 30. I assumed that her husband was older. But I mostly watched the musical numbers.

 

My favorite part is the dinner with Walter Matthau.

I'm talking about the Character Dolly Levi as it was written, for an older widow who'd been alone a long time and had been arranging marriages for others for 20 years

[Tonyko]

I understand your liking for Streisand because I saw her on stage in two Broadway musicals before her first film.

 

The musicals were, as follow: "I Can Get It For You Wholesale" and "Funny Girl." "Wholesale" was in a Boston out-of - teown tryout before New York. it most have been like Ethel Merman and Mary Martin, who both became stars upon first performances on Broadway (in 1930 and 1938 respectively)

There's a little seen MOVIE version of "Wholesale" from the 50's I've only caught it once on TV CAN'T remember WHO was in it but was unique casting (I'm trying NOT to Google lol) and I remember Barbra's secretary part was kind of non-discript in the film.

[+ WilliamM]

There's a little seen MOVIE version of "Wholesale" from the 50's I've only caught it once on TV CAN'T remember WHO was in it but was unique casting (I'm trying NOT to Google lol) and I remember Barbra's secretary part was kind of non-discript in the film.

 

I saw the pre-Broadway tryout of "Wholesale" in Boston on a week night with a fairly good sized audience. The cast was first rate, despite no huge stars. I had seen Brabra Streisand a few times on late night TV with either Jack Paar or Mike Wallace. She sang other songs with a group early and late in the musical, "Miss Marblestein" was her only solo. She stopped the show and then some. I shall never forget it. Elliott Gould was too young and inexperienced to carry the show, especially as an unlikeable character. The original cast album is wonderful. It's a very under appreciated musical, Tonyko.

 

I know about the film, It's on TCM occasionally. But, I have never seen it. I will now because you mentioned it.

[+ WilliamM]

http://40.media.tumblr.com/065d8501b2f57fe517f3880594967163/tumblr_nr6jfk9Onl1qgyefyo5_1280.jpg

But SOME WERE BETTER ON THE STAGE

 

I believe that "The Sound of Music" film was better than the broadway show, except for "Do-Re-Me," and "My Favorite Things." After her huge success on live TV with "Peter Pan" in 1955 and 1956, the audience wanted to see as much of Mary Martin as possible. So the very simple staging of "Do-Re-Mi" accomplshed what the audience wanted. People do not realize all these years later, that "The Sound of Music" on Broadway was always sold-out. I could only get a ticket in the highest balcony at age 16 in 1960.