rentboy office raided

[JC954]

Okay this is all crazy as fuck. I'm pissed. I just paid for an ad the other week and haven't even gotten my first client from this renewal.

 

Irony aside, if it was going to happen to anyone, I'm not surprised that it was you.

[+ SimplyAdam]

Of note, Gay City News emailed and mentioned that two "interesting follow-ups" will be in their print and online issue on Thursday. Stay tuned...

 

Also, this is a spot-on - and adorable - comment from my recent blog entry (simplyadam.com/blog) on the fiasco. You can replace "Adam" with any of the guys on here: "Why can’t Homeland Security focus on a bigger picture? Secure our borders and airports, please. Respond to natural disasters, thank you. Oh, and how about you protect me from terrorist? Cause I don’t really need you, Homeland Security, to protect me from my Adam."

[+ Gar1eth]

Having lived for many years in a country where prostitution is simply legal I am looking at this development with amazement. Cynically enough, prostitution was made legal there to better fight the exploitation of victims in the sex industry. Here they made it illegal in an attempt to fight the exploitation of others. I however don't see any signs that the last approach actually works. (Most of all it forces sex workers into unsafe situations.)

 

Isn't The Netherlands flirting with making it illegal? I know I've read something about Amsterdam trying to get rid of the ladies in the windows.

 

 

Gman

[Dave]

Please join the crowdfunding campaign we have created, to support the seven staff members that were targeted in the raid.

 

A group of six of us male escorts (myself, Silas X, Master Avery, Danny Cruz, Steven Kessler, and Simply Adam) have come together to specifically ask those of you who hire, to donate to a crowdfunding campaign for the people charged as a result of the raid. This campaign is expressly directed to you - the readers of this forum on DaddysReviews.com.

The lives of those charged have been turned upside down:

Each individual faces 2 to 5 years in federal prison and a $250,000 fine. Many of their personal items have been seized. They have been thrown into the public limelight. And they are now unemployed.

The money raised will be equally split amongst the seven Rentboy.com staff charged, and will be used at each individual’s discretion. This includes use for primary legal funds, rent, food and other resources.

This is their time of need. They need our help now.

For those of you who hire, you know that just like Daddy's Reviews, Rentboy was a safe, reputable, and discreet way to get information on escorts. The website was also widely recognized for the ways in which it gave back to the community. It supported the operations of HOOK-Online, a harm reduction organization for men in the sex industry. And most recently, Rentboy introduced a scholarship program for escorts, demonstrating it to be more than just a platform on which to advertise.

 

Recognizing Rentboy’s contributions to the industry, the six of us feel it is time the community support the staff who are now involved in this legal entanglement. It has been said that the shutdown of the Rentboy website affects everyone in the escort industry, and a growing number of people see this case as a pivotal step for the future of adult work: not only affecting how escorts advertise, but also how clients make their selections in hiring an escort. Should the Rentboy.com case become a precedent for the industry, the termination of other escort websites will follow.

We are asking people who hire escorts to contribute generously to this fund.

Please donate even if you Haven’t-Yet-But-Are-Considering-Hiring.

Or, if you're a fellow escort. We know business may be slower right now, since you're unable to advertise on Rentboy... but even a small amount from you is important support.

Finally, please donate even if you don't fit into any of the above categories, but are simply a friend of the industry.

It's time for all of us who know that escorting is viable, necessary and important work, to financially show what we believe. Even if it's a very small contribution, like how much you'd spend on a cup of coffee or lunch today.

And yet, we ask that you contribute as much as you’re able, without creating hardship on yourself. Clients, if you’re stuck on an amount, think of how much you spend on a single appointment, and perhaps consider a multiple of that.

 

Contributions may be made online at this link: https://life.indiegogo.com/fundraisers/daddysreviews-com-clients-help-support-rentboy--2

 

Thank you in advance,

Dave

(I know my brothers in this campaign thank you, too: Silas X, Master Avery, Danny Cruz, Steven Kessler, and Simply Adam.)

[mike carey]

Dave, as an outsider, I've thrown a few bux at this campaign (with an identity that implies wrongly that I am from the far south of Argentina). I hope this isn't an indication that your country is going in an appalling direction.

[+ WilliamM]

Please donate even if you Haven’t-Yet-But-Are-Considering-Hiring.

Or, if you're a fellow escort. We know business may be slower right now, since you're unable to advertise on Rentboy... but even a small amount from you is important support.

 

Dave, I would underline that people can donate using the name "anonymous" and designate the amount "private."

 

The last thing one would want is someone who could only contribute a small amount to not give, because he is donating less than many other people. I understand the strategy behind using "screen" names and the amount given, but I wanted to add this informaion to your post.

[mike carey]

The last thing one would want is someone who could only contribute a small amount to not give, because he is donating less than many other people. I understand the strategy behind using "screen" names and the amount given, but I wanted to add this informaion to your post.

Agree, William, people should not feel that they are in some way shamed even if they can only donate $5. Every cent counts. I just realised that the way the AUD is faring lately, my USD donation was bigger for me than it would have been a few months ago.

[Mocha]

Irony aside, if it was going to happen to anyone, I'm not surprised that it was you.

 

Haha, slick comment...bad taste. If one could related rentboy like stock, it's a market that crashed. Granted, I'm sure there's many guys who may have bought multiple ads so my investment wasn't as large...but nevertheless. There's articles that quote how people who have advertised on there, are now broke. So you don't have to be surprised, you can just keep playing stupid.

 

Tbh, not to take away from what happened...but rentboy was never life or death for me. I generally placed an ad about every other month. There was something telling me to not post last month, but I was over zealous by the success the previous month.

 

 

 

 

 

[Dave]

For those who want even more discretion, Dave is it possible that people send a money order to the Indiegogo website, indicating for which initiative it is? Or is there an other address that money orders can be sent to? Sending money orders may make it difficult to receive a receipt, but those for whom discretion is ultra important, may not want to deduct this donation from their taxes anyway ...

 

Anton.

I looked into this and it seems like money orders are not accepted by Indiegogo - the crowdfunding platform we are using for this.

At least in the US, if anyone is concerned about a paper trail, pre-paid credit cards are probably the best way to go (those cards supermarkets sell... you pay for it in cash and don't need to register it with the card's website. then when using it, your payment is anonymous, as long as you don't give any of your personal details).

[+ jrhoutex]

I looked into this and it seems like money orders are not accepted by Indiegogo - the crowdfunding platform we are using for this.

At least in the US, if anyone is concerned about a paper trail, pre-paid credit cards are probably the best way to go (those cards supermarkets sell... you pay for it in cash and don't need to register it with the card's website. then when using it, your payment is anonymous, as long as you don't give any of your personal details).

 

The Indiegogo FAQ states:

 

Indiegogo Restrictions on Payment Type

 

At this time, we accept donations via Visa, MasterCard, Discover, and American Express. We do not accept pre-paid value cards.

 

Any other ideas to donate without a paper trail?

[Dave]

The Indiegogo FAQ states:

Indiegogo Restrictions on Payment Type

At this time, we accept donations via Visa, MasterCard, Discover, and American Express. We do not accept pre-paid value cards.

Any other ideas to donate without a paper trail?

 

pre-paid value cards are cards issued by a store. they can only be redeemed for purchases from that particular store. like, if you go to starbucks and buy a starbucks plastic card for $20... you can only redeem the $20 for goods from a starbucks store (you can't use it to pay for something, say, on amazon)

 

I was talking instead about pre-paid credit cards. they are cards that "look" like a visa card, or a mastercard, or an american express, etc. sometimes they are called "gift cards". you can buy them at supermarkets, some have the values already set (ie, a $100 visa gift card), others have value ranges (I think visa makes one that can range from $20 to $500)... you tell the cashier how much cash you want to put on the card, he or she programs said card, and gives it to you, and voila - you have a visa card worth the amount you asked for.

 

hope this helps -

Dave

[Dave]

ok - who needs a kick in the pants?

you've been reading this thread...so please check out this link:

http://www.companyofmen.org/threads/what-if-it-were-me-what-if-it-were-you.107565/

 

I can't believe that the thread's had over 20,000 visits, yet the DaddysReviews Clients fundraiser to Help Rentboy Staff has only had 36 donations.

 

Seriously, with the magnitude of this, only 36 of us could donate?

[+ Cash4Trash]

Couldn't agree with Dave more. Now is the time to stand up and be counted. We need to help these people out. DONATE!

[LookingAround]

What does hiring have to do with deciding whether to help someone with their legal bills. Sheesh

[mike carey]

OK, there are more than 20K views of this thread, but that's not 20K people. I look at the thread if I log in and there is a new post here, so I'm probably 20+ of those views. In case you're wondering, I did contribute over a fortnight ago. Not my battle but it is an important one to support.

[BaronArtz]

I will not donate even a penny to the former owners/employees of RentBoy. If you skate close to edge of the law all the time, you should accept the consequences of what you are doing. A possible consequence is that you get busted by the cops. This is what seems to have happened here.

 

The main argument though is this: I DO NOT MISS RENTBOY. Escorts have migrated to other sites and the game goes on. I think that RentMen, for instance, has done a great job picking up the slack. What is the BIG DEAL?

 

On a certain level, I do sympathize with escorts who lost money by paying in advance for ads that are no longer available. I also sympathize with the few employees that lost their jobs. These are short-term inconveniences that can be quickly overcome. So, am I, is anybody on this forum, is anybody who hires escorts responsible for the financial mess left behind by a failed business? NO WAY.

[mike carey]

I've already said I'd donated, even though this does not affect me directly, so let me offer an alternative narrative. Whether Rentboy was operating close to the law or not is hardly the issue. If it were just a website pushing the limits it would be noone else's concern. This prosecution is an attack on the boundary between sex work and 'escort services', and also an attack on LGBTI people's agency. Yes, I think sex work should be legal, but that is a separate issue for the moment. It is important that these prosecutions fail. Unless they fail, all escorts and most likely their clients will be subject to law enforcement forces that are empowered by the taking down of Rentboy. They will make life more difficult for all of us. If the prosecutions fail, that pressure will be relieved. On the other hand if the Rentboy prosecutions succeed the police will be able to use that as a precedent to harrass escorts on the pretext that they are just sex workers, and the legal distinction between companionship and sex for money will be lost. I think that funding the legal defence of the Rentboy seven to preserve that distinction is worthwhile.

[+ stevenkesslar]

The main argument though is this: I DO NOT MISS RENTBOY. Escorts have migrated to other sites and the game goes on. I think that RentMen, for instance, has done a great job picking up the slack. What is the BIG DEAL?

 

Hey Baron:

 

Let me make two points, and then answer your question, from my perspective.

 

First point. I had nothing to do with Rentboy, or Rentmen. I never paid a dime for an ad on Rentboy, and I never earned a dime off an ad on Rentboy. So I could give a shit about Rentboy. Beyond that, I agree with you that "people who skate close to the edge of the law all the time" should accept the consequences of doing so. If you don't get that, you are in denial. So we agree, 1000 %

 

Second point. Rentboy was not a "failed" business in the sense that it went bankrupt. It was a successful business that operated at about the size of a McDonalds franchise, according to the New York Times. It was successful enough that it could do things like give away nickels and dimes to college scholarships - the kind of "good deeds" many successful businesses do. The reason it is now in a "financial mess" is simple: it happened to be one of a series of escort websites the government is targeting and shutting down. It comes after MyRedbook, which took about a year from arrest to jail time. It comes before the next website the government targets, maybe.

 

So what's the big deal? Not much, other than this. Unless I am missing the logic, you and almost everybody else on this site - anybody that has hired an "escort" - could be arrested for something called "prostitution." In fact, you deserve it, and you are asking for it, because you are "skating close to the edge of the law."

 

Could other sites that escorts have migrated to be busted? Sure. The government is on a roll. First MyRedbook. Now Rentboy. Follow the bouncing ball. Who's next? Does it matter? No. As you say, the game goes on.

 

Eventually, maybe it even gets to the point where EVERY website operating in the US is either busted or intimidated into not running escort ads, or Tom Dart gets Visa and Mastercard to boycott them, like he got them to boycott Backpage. Does it matter? Not really. By your logic, the game goes on. Rent Men is in the Netherlands. They can't be busted. So what does Tom Dart do?

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/02/02/national-day-of-johns-2015_n_6595358.html

 

Now really, what are the odds that you or any other "john" on this site are going to be targeted and busted by a fake ad on Rent Men? Very small, actually. Should I give a shit? No. The games goes on. It may fuck up your life, but honestly, what is the BIG DEAL? Other johns will pick up the slack. And honestly, anybody "skating close to the edge of the law" deserves to get busted, right?

 

Anyways, anybody with a brain would not let Tom Dart bust them, because they'll only hire escorts who are reviewed on this site, right? Unless, of course, the government decides that Redbook and Rentboy were just the beginning, and they shut this site down somewhere along the way. Please ignore what I'm writing. Because maybe in a year you won't be able to read it. Does anybody here give a fuck? Not really. The game goes on.

 

Here's my point. I think there are two acceptable choices in situations like this, and I really mean this. One: Everybody is on their own. Or two: We all stand together.

 

If you're saying you don't miss Rentboy, and people should just migrate elsewhere, that works fine if you feel that everybody is on their own. If you happen to be the unfortunate website or john or rentboy who gets targeted and busted next, well, tough luck. The reason a lot of us feel it's better to unite is that we feel safer in numbers. I have the weird distinction of having spent decades organizing coalitions and political movements, so I have personal experience that most people don't have, that suggests that if you want to be targeted and get eaten alive, the best way to do so is be out there on your own.

 

That's the choice each and every one of you have to make. I'm speaking now as an organizer, not an escort. Rule #1 in politics to me is that you have to respect peoples choices, and everybody deserves the dignity of being able to choose what risks they will accept. So if your decision is to stand back while a few unfortunate individuals get targeted and taken down, and hope you're not next, that's a decision I respect. With most organizing efforts, big or small, at any point in time, whether its Stonewall or Selma, most people choose NOT to push back. It is a completely honorable choice.

 

But don't be surprised if you're very unfortunate, and you happen to be next. Or the website that you enjoy browsing, or hire off of. And when it happens, don't complain about it. Because people will ask, what's the BIG DEAL?

 

I know my answer. And now I'm really stepping on my moral soapbox. I was mentored by the guy who actually wrote the TVPA, which is the most recent of a century's worth of federal anti-trafficking laws designed to protect vulnerable women and children. He's the guy who tried to stop the Iraq War, and failed. He inspired me to spend 20 years fighting and beating big banks that redlined and Enron and all kinds of other crooks. So, sorry, but Tom Dart or any other cop is not going to define me as a moral degenerate. I'm going to be one of the ones that says this is not the way the game should be played. It IS a big deal. And I have a completely clear conscience in saying that. I don't feel I am some jerk who is skirting the edge of the law. And I honestly believe that the way this is coming down is not only going to lead to embarrassing situations for people like you and me - it is actually going to move the whole effort to help innocent women and children backward.

 

This is where reasonable people have to agree to disagree. It's not a big deal for you. It is for me, and a lot of other people. Let's respect each other's choices, but I hope each and every one of you will consider what kind of game you want to be playing with your future, and whether this is really the best way to play it.

 

One way or the other, the abolitionists always fail. Baron Artz is right. The game will go on.

[BaronArtz]

Hey Steven - I enjoyed reading your post above. That was very thoughtful, and I can appreciate your sentiment. We look at it from a very different perspective and yes, I believe the game will indeed go on.

 

Except for one thing. The abolitionists do not always fail. I am not an American, but I seem to recall that there was something called the Civil War. Those who wished to abolish slavery did not fail. Thankfully, they didn't.

[+ stevenkesslar]

Point take, Baron. I was actually referring to alcohol, and other perceived "sins."

 

You can read into what you are saying that you are equating what we do to "slavery." You didn't mean that, I assume? I of course agree with you that there are some cases in which I want the abolitionists to win, and slavery was, thankfully, one of them.

[+ stevenkesslar]

Adding to my point about the moral high ground, I'm posting three more articles. All three deal with MyRedbook, not Rentboy. The reason I am doing this is it goes to the core of the moral ambiguity of this issue. Baron Artz is right: the game will go on. He is also right, and I was wrong, that sometimes the abolitionists do win, and we want them to win, like when it comes to slavery.

 

I have to look at this issue as if I were a cop trying to help people who are victims, or as if I were Sheila Wellstone, and I found sex slavery to be horrific, or as if I were her husband, and I could team up with a legislator like Rep. Louise Slaughter to fight the enslavement of kids and women. None of this is stuff that Rentboy has been accused of, let alone stuff that was proven. I bring up Redbook because it shows how quickly things get complicated. If you don't want to read all 3 articles, read my summary at the bottom.

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/21/south-san-francisco-sex-slavery_n_2734350.html

 

http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/FBI-Prostitution-Bust-Discovers-Hidden-Bay-Area-Brothels-218049551.html

 

http://www.sfweekly.com/thesnitch/2014/11/20/myredbook-accused-manager-of-escort-site-takes-plea-deal

 

The first article is about a bust that occurred in an SF hotel where MyRedbook was alleged to have been used to advertise at least one underage girl. The reason she was rescued? A hotel employee tipped the cops off. Sounds pretty simple, right? It's Redbook's fault. Shut her down.

 

The second article muddies the water. The embedded video news report is actually more emotionally evocative than the printed news report. Because of big city "crackdowns" in places like massage parlors, pimps moved to places like quiet apartments in San Bruno, which became "brothels." A pimp and two "women" - presumably not minors - were arrested. How were they targeted? Through ads on MyRedbook. How would they have been uncovered, if not through MyRedbook? They probably would not have been.

 

The third story was written after MyRedbook was shut down. In the words of Assistant U.S. Attorney Elise Becker, one of the two MyRedbook employees, Annmarie Lanoce, "fielded correspondence from families and law enforcement about ads that might depict minors and deleted the ads from MyRedbook."

 

Was Redbook essential to helping pimps sell women's services? Yes. Was Redbook essential to helping cops uncover pimps hiding in the "safe" confines of nice suburban apartment complexes? Yes. Did Redbook cooperate with the cops? Yes, according to at least one law enforcement official. Has closing My Redbook stopped prostitution or child trafficking? No. The game goes on. Has it even slowed it down? Who knows? Don't count on it.

 

In my pragmatic world, the best we can hope for is to have websites that work with the cops, and work closely with sex worker groups and community-based organizations that the most vulnerable women and kids being sold for sex, and who want out, actually trust. That's what every report I've read on effective anti-trafficking says, in one way or another. Sorry if I'm just a dumb whore, but I just don't see how targeting those sites and shutting them down and branding the whole community around them - female and male escorts - as a "global criminal enterprise" helps anybody or anything.

 

The game will go on, but I actually think we can at least try to make the game better and safer for everyone. That's what I'm defending - not "just" the 7 people at Rentboy who were the latest targets of a well-intentioned but misguided effort.

[+ FreshFluff]

Mike Carey makes the point that supporting the defense of the Rentboy 7 will help defend the boundary between escorting and. But the Indieagogo isn't a legal defense fund; it may be used that way, but the funds are meant to provide general support for the owner and employees who've been arrested.

 

The money raised will be equally split amongst the seven Rentboy.com staff charged, and will be used at each individual’s discretion. This includes use for primary legal funds, rent, food and other resources.

[+ quoththeraven]

Point take, Baron. I was actually referring to alcohol, and other perceived "sins."

 

You can read into what you are saying that you are equating what we do to "slavery." You didn't mean that, I assume? I of course agree with you that there are some cases in which I want the abolitionists to win, and slavery was, thankfully, one of them.

 

I think the word you were going for here is "prohibition." As for the rest, I'm reminded of what Ben Franklin said when the Declaration of Independence was signed: "We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately." In this case, I'm not sure if the unintended double entendre enhances or detracts from the meaning.

 

Or as Martin Niemoller said, "In Germany, they came first for the Communists. And I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist... When they locked up the Social Democrats, I remained silent; I was not a Social Democrat... Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew... When they came for me, there was no one left to speak out."

[+ stevenkesslar]

In the meanwhile that post has been brought to RentMen's management and I hope they take measure. I do hope they don't think I'm "just another dumb whore" who knows nothing about legal matter, because ...

... I brought the very same topic to the attention of Jeffrey when I met with him in Amsterdam and look where he's now.

 

My God, Anton. Not only are you NOT a dumb whore. You are an amazing investigator. Are you sure you don't want to go work for DHS? I think they need good investigators like you!

 

If Rent Men is based in the US, I'm actually glad. At the risk of sounding chauvinistic, I think it's better they are, even given the risk that misguided govt. agencies can shut them down. Even if they were based outside the US, resourceful prohibitionists like Tom Dart can figure out lots of ways to attack them. At the risk of sounding mean, everybody who has ever hired an escort should be happy that it is the websites being targeted, not you. And every rentboy should be happy if law enforcement focuses on the demand side, not the supply side.

 

Today I am excelling at getting on my moral soapbox, so here I go again.

 

I view very little in legal terms. I view almost everything in political terms. And this is an issue that works well for me when I personalize it.

 

I have two political mentors, one my teacher, one my boss. And I can take away from them two huge life lessons that I can apply to this issue.

 

The first, my boss for 6 years, was Gale Cincotta, "mother" of the anti-redlining movement, who along with Sen. Bill Proxmire was the driving force behind the Community Reinvestment Act and Home Mortgage Disclosure Act. CRA was viewed, positively, as a factor in the huge spike in home ownership during the Clinton years, especially among the have nots. It is viewed negatively, especially by Republicans, as the cause of the subprime lending crisis. While it has nothing to do with escorting, it has everything to do, for me, with the essence of what it means to be a good political whore.

 

If you bother to read this, you are going to think I'm nuts, but this chart makes the entire point I want to make about what I think the current situation calls for:

 

 

Why is this relevant? Because for over a decade, from roughly 1992 to roughly 2003, mostly under the leadership of Bill Clinton, the CRA and the broad concept of community lending partnerships created a huge spike in home ownership, and it particularly helped low-income families, particularly African American and Hispanic families, to accumulate a little bit of equity and wealth. It worked incredibly well for over a decade. Then it all went to hell, particularly from 2004 to 2006 - note that the Republicans ran the White House and Congress during this period - when there was a huge spike in risky subprime lending. It is easy to say that this was a misguided effort to help first time home buyers, but that's false Fox News propaganda. 1) It worked well enough in the 70's and 80's, and it worked very well in the 90's when Clinton ran the show, 2) It's estimated that up to 90 % of the subprime loans that went bad were refinances to existing home buyers who got greedy and stupidly used their inflated home values to take out risky loans to buy boats, motors homes, time shares in Mexico, or whatever. It was pure greed.

 

This is painful to me. I was present at the creation of this mess. It was a huge life lesson. Except Gale and Prox and Clinton and the people who made this happen knew that for things to work well, it simply has to be a finely calibrated partnership. There could be no "us versus them." It could not be communities against banks. It had to be banks and communities working together. Somehow this balance was lost somewhere around 2004, and we all know what happened.

 

I am absolutely convinced that the exact same principles are the only ones that make sense on this issue, whether you call it escorts or prostitution or trafficking or whatever. My other mentor, Wellstone, was as much as anyone the"father" of one of the most significant pieces of federal anti-trafficking legislation. He knew that at the end of the day, the only thing that worked was not polarization, or "us versus them," but partnership.

 

To paint this in polarized terms, you have a situation now where there are a bunch of prohibitionist cops that want to shut down websites they think promote sex in illegal and unethical ways. They don't seem to want to distinguish between adult gay men making consensual decisions, and teenage girls being trafficked by male predators. Meanwhile, you have sex workers carrying signs that say "No bad whores. Just bad laws." I carried that sign for a few hours. It is a perfect example of a simplistic, polarized sign that is great for a banner or chant, but sucks as a strategy for compromise and partnership.

 

The concept of "community policing" is based on the idea that the cops and the communities they protect are served best when they work together. It worked well in Portland when I lived there, when Tom Potter was the Chief of Police, then the Mayor. It's why the idea of shutting down Redbook and Rentboy and driving "high end" websites offshore and driving "low end" hookers back to streets and brothels horrifies me. Maybe I am smug, or paranoid, but I see it as utter disaster in the making. To me the best possible course of action, and what seems to have worked fairly well where it's been tried, are concepts like "community policing" and "community-based partnerships." and cops and sex workers not viewing each other as the enemy. To the degree that "decriminalize" is heard as "get the cops off our backs" and criminalize is heard as "let the cops do whatever they want," I think both words are jargon that do as much harm as good. Calibrated partnerships and trust are never easy, and they can always fall apart, but they are always the best goal.

 

That's a long-winded sermon but it sums up over three decades of my life experience and it is why in my view it is just absolutely fucking nuts for anybody to think that shutting down Redbooks and Rentboys and waiting to see what pops up in the Netherlands or - much worse - some cartel-controlled narco-state, makes any sense whatsoever. Every bit of my life experience suggests it will only make things worse.

[+ quoththeraven]

It may in fact be the case that Rentmen is not based in the Netherlands. It sounds more like it's based in the UK with an American presence. But the exchange of sex for money, if that is indeed what we're talking about - I know there are a variety of views on this, and mine is that charging solely for time doesn't end the inquiry - is legal in the UK, although public solicitation, pimping, and operating brothels are not.

 

While U.S. law applies to its U.S. operations, if Rentmen's headquarters and servers are in another country where the legality of internet-facilitated escorting is not open to question, Rentmen itself seems to me to be protected from what happened to Rentboy. I'm not tech-savvy enough to tell if an ISP in the U.S. indicates that the servers are U.S.-based, which seems foolish if the company is based elsewhere. Maybe it only means the web host is in the U.S., although even that seems foolish in light of recent developments. Or maybe there is a parent company based in the Netherlands of which the UK company is a subsidiary, or something similar, and the UK company is being used as its public face.

 

Bottom line, we don't know what the situation is with Rentmen, nor would it be prudent for them to share that information here. I'm not even sure how useful it is for us to discuss what we've independently found out about Rentmen. As a former government employee I realize that time and resources are precious, but it would be a mistake to think scrutiny of this site is a thing of the past or that no use would ever be made of information that government personnel would be unlikely to unearth on their own - not because it wouldn't be possible, but because there are plenty of other tasks requiring attention, leading any follow-up investigations not integral to the original one to be reactive, not proactive.

 

I hate having to think about what can be said without potentially making the situation for the site, its users, and those under arrest or mentioned in the arrest complaint more difficult. Sometimes even explaining the difficulty is impossible without revealing more than I feel comfortable with. That kind of effort, which I can't in good conscience not undertake, is time-consuming and not a lot of fun. No wonder I took a break.