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AdamSmith Grand Master

AdamSmith

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Somehow it is just perfect for Proust to be one of the hooks for this ongoing grand thread hijack.

 

Marcel Proust - a savagely funny genius

Proust is many things, but, chief among them, he is a comic novelist, alert to the absurdity of human nature and behaviour

By Allan Massie 3:53PM GMT 28 Dec 2013 The Telegraph

 

There are people who can’t get enough of Proust, and those for whom any is too much. This year marked 100 years since Swann’s Way, the first volume of Remembrance of Things Past, was published, and it is firmly established as one of the greatest novels, even if it remains for many one of the greatest Unread.

 

Actually, Proust had difficulty in getting it published. When he sent the manuscript to the Nouvelle Revue Française, it was returned without the parcel having been opened; his devoted housekeeper, Céleste Albaret, recognised the peculiar knots she had tied in the string. It seems that André Gide had thought it ridiculous to suppose that a little socialite like M Proust could have written a novel of any interest. Eventually Proust paid for the publication himself, and the publisher got himself a bargain, because the book he had accepted so doubtfully was soon being acclaimed as a masterpiece.

 

It is that, but there are still those who cannot get on with it. It’s not a novel you can nibble at, not first time round anyway. I recommend total immersion. That was how, urged on by a friend who was in thrall to it, I first read it, in the Scott-Moncrieff translation, in my last year at Cambridge; one of the most marvellous fortnights of my life. Since that first reading I have returned to it again and again.

 

Yet even devoted Proustians recognise, or should recognise, why others have a problem. The book goes on and on. Many of the sentences are labyrinthine. There are long introspective passages, long passages of analysis, equally long passages of description. Exquisite no doubt, but calling to mind Robert Louis Stevenson’s remark that nobody speaks about a beautiful view for five minutes; so why write about such things at length? Yet Alain de Botton once declared that the best bits of Proust are the descriptions and passages of analysis – just what I now tend to skip. This merely shows that different people discover different riches in the book.

 

Evelyn Waugh – surprisingly – found Proust a bore: “Nobody told me he was a mental defective. He has no sense of time.” (A joke, perhaps, in view of the novel’s title.) “And as for the jokes – the boredom of Bloch and Cottard.” This was in a letter to Nancy Mitford, and may have been intended as a tease. She rose to the bait, splendidly, commiserating with him on having to read it in English: “There is not one joke in all the 16 of S-Moncrieff’s volumes.” (Not true.) “In French, one laughs from the stomach.” She thought Proust was as funny as Wodehouse. That may be an exaggeration, but it hits the right note.

 

Proust is many things, but chief among them, he is a comic novelist, alert to the absurdity of human nature and behaviour, keenly aware of the deceptions we practise on ourselves as well as on others, alive to the discrepancies between appearance and reality. There is comedy in most great novelists – in Scott and Stendhal, Austen, Dickens and Dostoevsky; all had a sense of the absurd; all were capable of taking delight, sometimes scornful delight, in the comedy of hypocrisy.

 

As a young man, Proust began by writing parodies of his contemporaries, and the writing of parody is an act of comic criticism. In this he was as accomplished as Max Beerbohm, his contemporary. The parodist is still evident in the novel: the talk, for example, of Bloch and Dr Cottard (in which Waugh found, or pretended to find, nothing funny) is not a representation of how people might actually speak, any more than Mr Micawber’s language is “true to life” – it’s true only to Dickens’s conception of Mr Micawber. And, with apologies to Waugh, I still, after many readings, find Bloch and Cottard as funny as Micawber, or indeed as some of Waugh’s own joyous creations, such as the sublime Arthur Atwater in Work Suspended – not true to life, but true in life.

 

One reads a comic novelist for the characters. There is, for instance, gentle comedy in the narrator’s portrayal of his bedridden Aunt Leonie, who watches the comings and goings in Combray with insatiable curiosity, puzzling even over the identity of an unfamiliar dog. Her maid, Françoise, suggests a possible owner, and Leonie replies sharply: “As if I didn’t know Mme Sazerat’s dog!” The narrator remarks: “My aunt’s critical mind would not be fobbed off so easily.” This is like Jane Austen. There is savage comedy, too, in the many scenes devoted to the social-climbing Verdurins and the loyal crew who devotedly attend their dinner and house parties, to be praised, bullied, criticised, teased and humiliated, according to Mme Verdurin’s mood or whim. These dinner parties are as good as anything in Dickens.

 

There is sour humour in moments that reveal the selfishness and triviality of a character, as when the Duc de Guermantes is in a temper because news that a cousin is on his deathbed means that he can’t go to a party; only for him to cheer up when word comes that the invalid seems to have rallied, and he is able to go after all, saying that he had told everyone his cousin wasn’t that ill.

 

Best of all, there is the Baron de Charlus, magnificent and pathetic, intelligent and blind to the impression he makes on others, a slave to the vice that renders him absurd, even despicable, but which also allows him to reveal his true goodness of heart. Charlus is a man who imperfectly knows himself. Of which of us may this not be said? Which of us, in the eyes of others, is not often a comic figure?

 

People spend time seeking the originals of Proust’s characters. This is an exercise as futile as trying to identify the Fair Youth and Dark Lady of Shakespeare’s sonnets. Proust’s originals are all long dead, his characters gloriously and comically alive.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/books/10539480/Marcel-Proust-a-savagely-funny-genius.html

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purplekow Grand Master

+ purplekow

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Aren't you at least half akimbo here? I can't see what your left arm is doing.

 

 

I'm not good at visualizing things. But in this picture is Heptup putting all his weight on his back or front foot? I think it's his front. But I'm not a good visualizer as I said. I couldn't even do mechanical drawings in Shop Class in 7th and 8th grade.

 

Gman

I would think if all the weight were on the back foot, Heptop's thigh and calf would be much more defined as he has pretty muscular legs and he would be trying to balance on only the balls of his foot. As it is, his front foot is flat on the floor and would put less strain on the individual muscles as more of them would be in use. Of course the total weight would be the same which ever leg he was using.
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whipped guy Grand Master

whipped guy

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Well Now that I know that Proust is a "comic novelist" I might consider reading him if I get bored in my retirement. Damn, who woulda thunk! May the gods bless this forum and TB for starting this thread.

 

If this pans out I might just cancel my subscription to the Blu-Ray edition I Love Lucy reruns!

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WmClarke Mentor

+ WmClarke

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I have a suggestion for reading Proust's first book, "Swann's Way."

 

Start with part II, Swann in Love, which is a relatively easy to read narrative that introduces many of the major characters.

 

Then go back and read Parts I & III

Thanks for the suggestion. It's been siting on my bookshelf for a few years (I asked for a kindle version and someone gave me a boxed set--family! :rolleyes:).

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Gar1eth Grand Master

+ Gar1eth

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Well Now that I know that Proust is a "comic novelist" I might consider reading him if I get bored in my retirement. Damn, who woulda thunk! May the gods bless this forum and TB for starting this thread.

 

If this pans out I might just cancel my subscription to the Blu-Ray edition I Love Lucy reruns!

Well Now that I know that Proust is a "comic novelist" I might consider reading him if I get bored in my retirement. Damn, who woulda thunk! May the gods bless this forum and TB for starting this thread.

 

If this pans out I might just cancel my subscription to the Blu-Ray edition I Love Lucy reruns!

 

Speaking of comic novelists is anyone here familiar with the English writer Jerome K. Jerome and his famous book Three Men In A Boat? I haven't finished it yet. But the first few chapters are hilarious. I find some of it laugh out loud funny. And while it's probably the only example of English literature I've read from the Edwardian era, I can tell you I wasn't really expecting it to make me laugh.

 

I actually came to know of the book through a science fiction book by Connie Willis To Say Nothing The Dog which is a quite humorous book itself dealing with time travel in a light-hearted fashion. It won both a Hugo and Locus awards in 1999.

 

Gman

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TruHart1 Grand Master

TruHart1

Posted
Posted
...

 

However...

 

http://i.guim.co.uk/img/static/sys-images/Arts/Arts_/Pictures/2014/4/30/1398873149854/Peter-Duggans-Artoon---co-017.jpg?w=940&q=85&auto=format&sharp=10&s=a4f4bd3bd9ad1c18c95b30022b65cb62

...

 

I'm not good at visualizing things. But in this picture is Heptup putting all his weight on his back or front foot? I think it's his front. But I'm not a good visualizer as I said. I couldn't even do mechanical drawings in Shop Class in 7th and 8th grade.

Gman

 

Contrapposto: http://emptyeasel.com/2007/12/18/what-is-contrapposto-in-art-heres-an-explanation-of-classical-contrapposto

 

My take on this was the comparison of the way the ancient Greeks depicted the male form as opposed to the way the ancient Egyptions depicted both the male and female form in art! ...and BTW, Gman, visually Heptup (it's a bit of a pun!) has all his weight on his right leg and foot (in front) while leaning on the column with his left arm. Additionally, he is drawn with defined pectoral muscles and the hint of a six pack, which the other male figure does not have!o_O;)

 

Truhart1 :cool:

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Gar1eth Grand Master

+ Gar1eth

Posted
Posted

 

http://i.guim.co.uk/img/static/sys-images/Arts/Arts_/Pictures/2014/4/30/1398873149854/Peter-Duggans-Artoon---co-017.jpg?w=940&q=85&auto=format&sharp=10&s=a4f4bd3bd9ad1c18c95b30022b65cb62

 

Aren't you at least half akimbo here? I can't see what your left arm is doing.

 

 

I'm not good at visualizing things. But in this picture is Heptup putting all his weight on his back or front foot? I think it's his front. But I'm not a good visualizer as I said. I couldn't even do mechanical drawings in Shop Class in 7th and 8th grade.

 

Gman

 

Contrapposto: http://emptyeasel.com/2007/12/18/what-is-contrapposto-in-art-heres-an-explanation-of-classical-contrapposto

 

My take on this was the comparison of the way the ancient Greeks depicted the male form as opposed to the way the ancient Egyptions depicted both the male and female form in art! ...and BTW, Gman, visually Heptup (it's a bit of a pun!) has all his weight on his right leg and foot (in front) while leaning on the column with his left arm. Additionally, he is drawn with defined pectoral muscles and the hint of a six pack, which the other male figure does not have!o_O;)

 

Truhart1 :cool:

 

Tru,

 

While I don't know Heptup from Adam, I was able to figure out the contrast between Greek and Egyptian statuary/drawings from the comic. I think what was confusing me was that the picture shows Heptup with his weight on his right leg with his right foot forward but his right hip seems elevated while his left foot is up on tiptoes with his left hip positioned lower than his right. Is that possible?

 

By the way, who is Heptup? The only place I could find him in a web search is in that cartoon.

 

Gman

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JDXXX Community Regular

JDXXX

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Posted

;)

Well, I respect Tristan because I know of nobody in the business who is more ethical, honest, and trustworthy. Any other attributes are simply icing on the cake! But it's a heck of a cake!

 

http://www.hartculture.com/hcsuperstore/hc-superstore-cakes/cake-services-2.jpg

 

Love Tristan. He's not only a hot looking man with an amazing body, but a sincere, and kind human being. True joy to be around, and a wonderful friend as well. Kudos to you, Tristan, and thanks for being honest, and thoughtful in your post as you brought out the truth to the situation at hand. Needed to be pointed out and said outright, and do Thank you for bringing out the obvious of what you "observed".

 

Stay sweet, my friend - and gorgeously stunning as usual. LOL. ;).

 

HUGS,

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WilliamM Grand Master

+ WilliamM

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One reads a comic novelist for the characters. There is, for instance, gentle comedy in the narrator’s portrayal of his bedridden Aunt Leonie, who watches the comings and goings in Combray with insatiable curiosity, puzzling even over the identity of an unfamiliar dog. Her maid, Françoise, suggests a possible owner, and Leonie replies sharply: “As if I didn’t know Mme Sazerat’s dog!” The narrator remarks: “My aunt’s critical mind would not be fobbed off so easily.” This is like Jane Austen. There is savage comedy, too, in the many scenes devoted to the social-climbing Verdurins and the loyal crew who devotedly attend their dinner and house parties, to be praised, bullied, criticised, teased and humiliated, according to Mme Verdurin’s mood or whim. These dinner parties are as good as anything in Dickens

 

All true. But, Proust devotes an extraordinary amount of pages to Albertine. Marcel and Albertine do not always made sense as a couple, and we see her only from Marcel's eyes. Albertine appears throughout, especially in the penultimate book. By then, I was involved in Proust's world; it did not make and difference. For me at least, the situations with her were comic, but less and less so.

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AdamSmith Grand Master

AdamSmith

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Plus Heptup really does sound quite Egyptian in a Hatshepsut sort of way as well!

 

That was really the hook that grabbed me to post that cartoon, over & above the contrapposto business.

 

One of those things I see and think, Wish I had thought of that! :)

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AdamSmith Grand Master

AdamSmith

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Marcel and Albertine do not always made sense as a couple, and we see her only from Marcel's eyes.

 

Think that is one of Proust's great psychological insights about the nature of romantic love: a person's intense immersion in his perceptions of the other, but still the vast distance between the two actual people. (Stating it ridiculously reductively.)

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WilliamM Grand Master

+ WilliamM

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Think that is one of Proust's great psychological insights about the nature of romantic love: a person's intense immersion in his perceptions of the other, but still the vast distance between the two actual people. (Stating it ridiculously reductively.)

 

Adam, The Remembrance of Things Past is, of course, and extremely long reading experience. By the time, the reader gets to the very long decline of the Albertine-Marcel relationship, the term ridiculously reductively is not an overstatement.

 

Not that maks any difference to his psychological insights, but Proust's experience with Albertine often seems like a relationship with a male lover.

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