Racial diversity in this forum

[+ Axiom2001]

First, to remark on the more recent posts on this topic (and to a degree, all the recent heated discussions on race and preference). What I'll say won't change the world or some people's minds... so here it goes!

I don't think anyone on this forum is necessarily racist. They may say some incredibly ignorant shit, but not racist... closed minded about certain aspects of life and what people "of color" or any race may face, but not racist... type a set of words that are ill-suited for what they truly mean... but not racist.

 

We all have our preferences and prejudices about something... it doesn't mean we are racists or exhibit some other form of bigotry. Yes, there is a measure of institutionalized racism (as well as overt racism) that exists, which partly stems from what people are exposed to (or not exposed to), perception of other cultures, financial/physical power, and plain old fear. People sometimes don't seek the knowledge to empower themselves. They just rely on what is easily presented to them. Which is truly sad. And, of course, there are some racist assholes, who will always be racist assholes no matter what. That's another discussion for another day. People need to expand there horizons more dammit!!! LOL!

 

Which leads me to commenting on the original topic... people tend to like what they are exposed to frequently. Porn is mostly white anglo-saxon. (Hell... fashion, tv, on and on and on represents the "white man's" perspective mainly, but not always.) I can't blame someone's preference on what they see as beautiful solely on racists attitudes. It's like those experiments 20/20 in the 80's used to do where they'd give the little black girls a black doll and a white doll and the majority would pick the white one as pretty. Even though the only difference between the dolls were the color of plastic and hair color/texture. (Ok, now I'm rambling.) Part of it is conditioning, part of it is social, and the last part... who knows. Some even go against the grain and like the opposite of what they are exposed to regularly. Humans are strange creatures sometimes.

 

Perception is changing slowly. It's rough and sometimes there are set backs, as well as major breakthroughs. (Some change is better than no change.) Diversity is great. I like it... be it from the food I eat, the entertainment I enjoy, or the people whose company I keep.

 

So latbear... broaden people's minds. Highlight more"of color" escorts... post pics showing how beautiful all shades can be. If attitudes don't change... screw em. More for you and others to enjoy.

 

 

You wrote succinctly and highly logically! I wholeheartedly concur and truly thank you for writing!

[Steven_Draker]

Today I overheard a discussion in the gym's locker room between two black guys. The locker room was pretty empty and the two guys were talking as nobody was there.

 

I wish I wasn't a witness to what I heard. Reverse racism exists.

[+ José Soplanucas]

Today I overheard a discussion in the gym's locker room between two black guys. The locker room was pretty empty and the two guys were talking as nobody was there.

 

I wish I wasn't a witness to what I heard. Reverse racism exists.

 

It is actually called defensive racism.

[Rudynate]

Today I overheard a discussion in the gym's locker room between two black guys. The locker room was pretty empty and the two guys were talking as nobody was there.

 

I wish I wasn't a witness to what I heard. Reverse racism exists.

 

Why should that be a surprise? Blacks are a product of the same racist society that produced racist whites. Why wouldn't there be anti-white racism among blacks?

[+ José Soplanucas]

Why should that be a surprise? Blacks are a product of the same racist society that produced racist whites. Why wouldn't there be anti-white racism among blacks?

Of course. And even tons of studies are written about B vs B racism. I guess we can make a relatively valid analogy with homophobia, and its clear presence inside the gay "community" and ourselves.

[Lookin]

It is actually called defensive racism.

 

Mebbe, mebbe not.

 

Once I realized that no single race has a lock on assholes, I began to get some distance from my own prejudices.

[bigvalboy]

It is actually called defensive racism.

 

Mebbe, mebbe not.

 

One of my favorite bits from Chris Rock......And yes he's right. http://www.boytoy.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/yes.gif

 

[+ José Soplanucas]

Mebbe, mebbe not.

 

Once I realized that no single race has a lock on assholes, I began to get some distance from my own prejudices.

I agree, Lookin, but a few assholes is,one thing. Millions is a trend and a socio/cultural issue.

[Guy Fawkes]

As one of those students affected by the late 60's "Finger Plan" in Oklahoma City, Perhaps I have a unique prospective. The forced busing of both white and black students was in a word a "Failure." http://www.orangepower.com/threads/forty-years-since-the-finger-plan.153911/

 

Mine was one of the high schools that was eventually closed. It was my school where one of the teachers that was hit over the head by chair and forced into retirement in her 30's. It was my photo in the year book extending a middle finger along side of one my best friends that just happened to be darker than myself to say: "Finger the Finger Plan"

 

With very few exceptions, anybody that wants to register here can register. With even fewer exceptions anybody that wants to post may post. I refuse to be a "Flapper" http://www.shmoop.com/gullivers-travels/the-laputians.html to enforce what today's view of politically correct is.

 

I refuse to put a spit cup at the door so that I can conduct a DNA analysis of who is allowed to enter, and who may not. If you wish to go create a message-forum that is specific to young black/brown/asian men you are welcome to do so. Just be prepared to have the specter of discrimination raised against your forum if you do so.

 

I realize that your post may have been simply humor. However, it's one that tears open a very painful scab for me.

 

Hello my horny friends!

I hope I am not burning down myself with this posting. Being relatively new, I may just need to be educated on how to look for what I am looking for, which is young black/brown/asian men.

I find daddy's reviews, the escorts discussed in these forums, and the pictures shared in the gallery threads lacking of racial diversity. Do you think I am right? I AM NOT saying there is no diversity, I am saying there is not enough. You would say what "enough" is. If we round American population to 70% White, I would expect at least 30% of escorts discussed here to be non white. I do not think we are close to that figure. Maybe we should start some kind of affirmative action policy here?

And yes, before anybody else point it out, I am being completely selfish and centered in my sexual preferences. Which could easily influence my "lack of diversity" feeling. Sorry for that.

If you are upset or offended at this point of my message, please go up and read my first two sentences.

Gracias!

[Rudynate]

I firmly believe that, in order to get rid of racism, we have to get rid of the notion of race.

[+ stevenkesslar]

As one of those students affected by the late 60's "Finger Plan" in Oklahoma City, Perhaps I have a unique prospective. The forced busing of both white and black students was in a word a "Failure." http://www.orangepower.com/threads/forty-years-since-the-finger-plan.153911/ I realize that your post may have been simply humor. However, it's one that tears open a very painful scab for me.

 

A few years back a very popular escort whose base is in Atlanta had in his escort's ad that he preferred "NOT" to have black men engage his services. I wanted some clarification, so I sent him an email addressing this matter. He responded to me reasonably and candidly with some very logical and valid reasons, but after his reading my message and personally assessing his previous criteria, he and I managed to see each other while he visited Northern California. To date he's still escorting; to date I have fond memories of our time together, and my reviews are still extant at this site!

 

I wanted to intentionally put these two posts side by side because to me they speak volumes to this issue, and represent two ends to a continuum of choices we can all make in dealing with the issue of sexual preferences. As many people have said, it is complicated and nuanced. Who would have thought things like sexual preferences as they relate to racial preferences or racism would ever be an easy thing?

 

Thanks Daddy for reminding us that well-intentioned liberalism may not help and can hurt when it amounts to using a sledgehammer to force things to change. I read the link you provided about what happened in Oklahoma and it sounds like a textbook example of that. When I commented on this in the "white twenty something" thread I actually included the language used on Craigslist to ban the use of written racial preferences in rental housing ads. I have to deal with that as a landlord, because it's the law, but my reason for bringing it up is that you, as the administrator of this site, can't do such things. First, there is no law banning racial preferences in the hiring of escorts. Second, I'm glad there is not, because it would be stupid. You can't legislate every problem away, and this is one where trying to institute a ban would be just dumb and unenforceable.

 

I still go with what Epigonos said as the best possible pragmatic solution, or maybe you could also call it the "least worst" option. Just keep your mouth shut about your preferences. As he said, that is what many clients prefer with escorts. They don't want it spelled out that they are too old, too fat, too disabled, or too whatever. In the same way, black escorts don't need to feel like their skin color is a disease that makes them undesirable. Several people have raised a good point: what if you can't get a hard on around [fill in the blank]? I am not the best one to speak to that, because I have been hired by many people that others might not choose to be hired by - fat, old, disabled, one legged, small cocked, black, Hispanic, Asian - whatever label that is possibly a "turn off" you want to throw around. It is a dumb business strategy to say "I only want to be hired by clients who look perfect, by my own arbitrary standards, even though I don't." As many people have pointed out, many clients that escorts are hired by are probably not the embodiment of their ideal of physical perfection, anyway. So what? Frankly, I find it very hard to believe that many escorts on this site are so deeply racist that they could not get a hard on around someone simply because of their race. And if they are that racist, they may want to take a few extra seconds to say "no, thank you"privately to prospective clients, if for no other reason than to at least appear to be a sensitive human being, and not make it publicly clear in writing that they are close-minded to everybody that reads their ad. I'm sure racist young punks can get away with immature and tactless behavior and language - they are after all so precious and pretty and young - so it will keep happening. But God will have her way as they age and learn they might not be able to be heartless little pricks forever and always get away with it and pay the rent.

 

It's a different issue with clients, who can of course say, "Why pay money to have sex with guys who don't turn me on?" If you feel that way, don't. But Epigonos is right. There are a million ways to say it without saying it, to edit less desirable choices out without bluntly saying, "I am editing you out because you are black and that turns me off." Speaking as an escort, obviously clients who are edited out might figure it out anyway, when an escort asks you a question like "Tell me about the way you look?" But I would argue that is better, even for the escort, than saying something in an ad like "FAT PEOPLE TURN ME OFF AND THAT MEANS YOU!!! SO DON'T EVEN THINK OF CALLING ME!!!!" Nobody gets tolerance or empathy stars for spelling out things like that. There are definitely certain things that are turns off to me sexually - pain, unsafe sex, etc. - but honestly it is not that hard to leave these issues to private conversations in which you can at least try to state something about a preference without making the other party feel they are wrong or diseased. I am not the most tactful person in the world, by far, and yet I've managed to get away with this for 15 years as an escort.

 

The reason I included what Axiom wrote (in a different thread) is I just think it is wonderful, and it represents a gold standard for how we can all deal with this issue for people who really feel they want to be open-minded and challenge themselves at least a tiny bit. Note that unlike the example Daddy gave, it has nothing to do with coercive policies, it has to do with communication and openness and making choices. We all like those things. When I read what Axiom wrote my first reaction was, "Why bother paying money to hire an escort who starts out with a preference against you?" Then I realized the answer: because we both might enjoy being open to a new experience. In this case the experiment worked, and it sounds like it resulted in a nice session for both the escort and client, and the escort got a fee and a positive review.

 

Quentin Crisp is absolutely right in the film excerpt I posted above, and I like the pea analogy: it works out very nicely that you think you don't like peas so you don't try eating them, so you know you don't like them. Similar arguments have been used to ban or castigate against gay sex or same sex marriage forever, until we challenged the world to truly start to accept us. Yes, our neighbors don't have to get erections to accept our marriages. But the common denominator is that you can't feel comfortable with something you've never tried or even been open to. I've talked about this issue with a lot of clients, and I admire the ones who at least base their racial (or other) preferences on saying, "I tried it, and it wasn't my thing." (I did let somebody tie me up and do a minor pain session with me once, so at least I can say it definitely was NOT my thing.)

 

Kudos to you, Axiom, for being open-minded and for inviting another escort to be more open in a respectful and positive and non-coercive way. I think what you did is as close as you can get to a perfect, personal, and pragmatic solution. I hope we are all like you when we grow up. :)

[+ José Soplanucas]

As one of those students affected by the late 60's "Finger Plan" in Oklahoma City, Perhaps I have a unique prospective. The forced busing of both white and black students was in a word a "Failure." http://www.orangepower.com/threads/forty-years-since-the-finger-plan.153911/

 

Mine was one of the high schools that was eventually closed. It was my school where one of the teachers that was hit over the head by chair and forced into retirement in her 30's. It was my photo in the year book extending a middle finger along side of one my best friends that just happened to be darker than myself to say: "Finger the Finger Plan"

 

With very few exceptions, anybody that wants to register here can register. With even fewer exceptions anybody that wants to post may post. I refuse to be a "Flapper" http://www.shmoop.com/gullivers-travels/the-laputians.html to enforce what today's view of politically correct is.

 

I refuse to put a spit cup at the door so that I can conduct a DNA analysis of who is allowed to enter, and who may not. If you wish to go create a message-forum that is specific to young black/brown/asian men you are welcome to do so. Just be prepared to have the specter of discrimination raised against your forum if you do so.

 

I realize that your post may have been simply humor. However, it's one that tears open a very painful scab for me.

 

Daddy, I apologize if I hurt your feelings. I highly appreciate your work here and the service your website and this forum provide! HIGHLY. You started it, and now it is a collective construction of all the members. As one of the friends pointed out to me earlier in this thread, if I want more diversity, it is up to me to do something about it, there is freedom to do it. THANK YOU for creating and working hard for this space, and again my apologies if I hurt you. I am really sorry for that.

[Rudynate]

Be careful about collapsing the domains of race and sexual attraction. In many, they definitely do overlap, but in many, they don't.

[thickornotatall]

Racist....Ageist..Fat-shaming...? http://jacksonville.craigslist.org/cas/5150107156.html

[+ stevenkesslar]

Racist....Ageist..Fat-shaming...? http://jacksonville.craigslist.org/cas/5150107156.html

 

I note that's from Craigslist "Casual Encounters."

 

Kind of proves one of my points, and disproves another.

 

If it were Craiglist rental housing ads, he could not say, in effect, "no blacks need apply." It's illegal. There is no similarly illegal thing for escort ads, let alone casual sex hookups on Craigslist, nor do I think there should be.

 

You disproved my point that people become less tactless as they age. He's older. Although he's not an escort, so he does not have to worry about the market of people who will pay to have sex with him, and what they may think, he just has to worry about the market of people who will have sex with him for free.

 

To further his education, I sent him the following email. I'm pretty sure I'll get a defensive reaction, if any, but it may at least make him think, and if he gets a lot of reactions like that it may actually change his mind:

 

"You may have racial preferences when it comes to sex, but it's rude to state them in the manner you did. I'm a white escort who is attractive and in shape and I would not have sex with someone who thinks like you if you paid me to do it. Might want to change your ad so you are informing the world you like sex, not bigotry."

[thickornotatall]

I note that's from Craigslist "Casual Encounters."

 

Kind of proves one of my points, and disproves another.

 

If it were Craiglist rental housing ads, he could not say, in effect, "no blacks need apply." It's illegal. There is no similarly illegal thing for escort ads, let alone casual sex hookups on Craigslist, nor do I think there should be.

 

You disproved my point that people become less tactless as they age. He's older. Although he's not an escort, so he does not have to worry about the market of people who will pay to have sex with him, and what they may think, he just has to worry about the market of people who will have sex with him for free.

 

To further his education, I sent him the following email. I'm pretty sure I'll get a defensive reaction, if any, but it may at least make him think, and if he gets a lot of reactions like that it may actually change his mind:

 

"You may have racial preferences when it comes to sex, but it's rude to state them in the manner you did. I'm a white escort who is attractive and in shape and I would not have sex with someone who thinks like you if you paid me to do it. Might want to change your ad so you are informing the world you like sex, not bigotry."

You might have threatened with a spanking!..that would teach him...

[+ stevenkesslar]

You might have threatened with a spanking!..that would teach him...

 

Actually, it would teach me a lesson.

 

I am getting older, you know. Isn't it about time I figured out how to be a gay Daddy?

 

http://boysspankingboysblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/MALE-GAY-SPANKING.jpg