Iwo Jima image controversy

[+ WmClarke]

A decade after creating a gay pride image inspired by the famous Iwo Jima photograph, backlash.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/checkpoint/wp/2015/07/01/iwo-jima-marines-gay-pride-and-a-photo-adaptation-that-spawns-fury/?tid=sm_fb

[Phlmuscle]

Who ever did this is being disrespectful. Those of us that were around at that time remember the thousands of American lives that were lost at Iwo Jima. To even think that one could compare the gay rights marriage issue to that is being disrespectful to the lives that were lost. Shame on them.

[rvwnsd]

Who ever did this is being disrespectful. Those of us that were around at that time remember the thousands of American lives that were lost at Iwo Jima. To even think that one could compare the gay rights marriage issue to that is being disrespectful to the lives that were lost. Shame on them.

Have you read the article WmClarke referenced in his post? The photograph in question was created more than ten years ago and was never the subject of controversy until someone posted it to social media in conjunction with the same-sex marriage ruling. Someone could easily have posted the original photograph (or any other iconic photograph). As the photographer stated in the article, until the advent of social media, only those who wished to see an image would have occasion to see it. Now, an image gets posted to Facebook or Twitter and it goes viral. I'd argue that we can still avoid seeing images we don't wish to see. We can simply not look at them. Saves a lot of outrage.

[+ WilliamM]

Who ever did this is being disrespectful. Those of us that were around at that time remember the thousands of American lives that were lost at Iwo Jima. To even think that one could compare the gay rights marriage issue to that is being disrespectful to the lives that were lost. Shame on them.

 

I have written here before that I was drafted and served in an infantry unit in a brigade in Vietnam for a year (1968-1969). While I am not 100% in favor of the photograph in question, I have no problems with it being posted.

 

As you certainly know Pilmuscle, gay men served in every U.S. war and were present at Iwo Jima. Shame on the military and society in general for Don't Ask, Don't Tell ."

[Zman]

It is interesting to learn how old this image is. Can anyone here say they had even seen this image before it was recently posted so it could be decried? I love how theycomplainers want to pretend this is some kind of universally embraced gay icon. I'm thinking most people are wondering where the heck did they dig that picture up?

[mike carey]

It interesting to learn how old this image is. Can anyone here say they had even seen this image before it was recently posted so it could be decried?

I had certainly seen it before but I'm not sure how long ago, at least five years ago though. The Wikipedia article refers to the early 2000s (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raising_the_Flag_on_Iwo_Jima) when it was on the cover of Frontiers magazine. The US Naval Institute published an article earlier this year - http://www.usni.org/iwo-jima-parody-photos/ - asking whether it is the most reproduced and parodied photo in history, but did not include this version.

 

When I first saw the gay version I wasn't offended, but it's not my country's image. I thought that using an iconic image like that to represent a struggle was a fair use, but in that it is only symbolic, it could never imply equivalence! I can, however, understand that some would find it uncomfortable, but no more so than the Simpsons versions. I suspect that the reason for the fury now when there was little or none when it was first published is that 10 years ago political debate wasn't so partisan, and there had not been 12 years of wars in which support for the troops had become such a touchstone. This week, the conservative crankytariat is looking for any perceived slight of their view of America Values against which to launch a tirade. Of course it's not a universally embraced gay icon, but it makes them feel better to imagine that it is!

[rvwnsd]

It is interesting to learn how old this image is. Can anyone here say they had even seen this image before it was recently posted so it could be decried? I love how theycomplainers want to pretend this is some kind of universally embraced gay icon. I'm thinking most people are wondering where the heck did they dig that picture up?

Yes, I had seen it several times back in the day when it was newly created. However, I haven't seen it in at least 5 to 7 years. Frankly, I think the furor is much ado about nothing. A contemporary photographer created a picture that tips its hat to an iconic photo from WWII, which I might add, has not seen much attention in recent years.

[+ Gar1eth]

Basically if you don't like this, and I'm not saying that those who do are wrong (I have to admit to being neutral on the subject but that may be a failing in me-plus I haven't read about the controversy yet-what I read may make me change my mind), you'd need to not like any changes to the original.

 

Gman

[Michael Wayne]

The US Marine Corps Iwo Jima Memorial is one of my favorite and most special places to visit. Thank God for that generation. My generation (other than Iraq/afganistan veterans) has no comprehension of what it was like then. I always enjoy my seniorest of senior citizen clients who are willing to tell their stories

[gilbert]

The Iwo Jima statue is one of my favorites. It is so inspiring to view the statue with Washington DC as its backdrop. Have you ever seen the Sunset Parade featuring the Marines from the Marine Barracks in DC at the memorial on Tuesday evenings in the summer? Wow! Anyway, over the years people have imitated the statue's iconic stance using all sorts of subject matter. They're not done as acts of disrespect, but just a creative transitions on a familiar subject. Would there be as big of an outcry if they weren't holding a gay flag? A big hissy-fit over nothing.

[rvwnsd]

The Iwo Jima statue is one of my favorites. It is so inspiring to view the statue with Washington DC as its backdrop. Have you ever seen the Sunset Parade featuring the Marines from the Marine Barracks in DC at the memorial on Tuesday evenings in the summer? Wow! Anyway, over the years people have imitated the statue's iconic stance using all sorts of subject matter. They're not done as acts of disrespect, but just a creative transitions on a familiar subject. Would there be as big of an outcry if they weren't holding a gay flag? A big hissy-fit over nothing.

I agree with you. My guess is that no controversy would erupt if a photograph depicted Rick Warren, Joel Osteen, Billy Graham, and Pat Roberston lifting a flag with the words "Jesus is Lord" printed on it.

[Epigonos]

I'm gay. I'm 74. I'm a fiscal arch conservative. I love artistic freedom. I love the original photo and statue. I love the gay version. The entire hoopla amounts to nothing more than a tempest in a teapot. I never cease to be amazed at what people chose to get upset about -- don't they have a life?

[+ WilliamM]

I'm gay. I'm 74. I'm a fiscal arch conservative. I love artistic freedom. I love the original photo and statue. I love the gay version. The entire hoopla amounts to nothing more than a tempest in a teapot. I never cease to be amazed at what people chose to get upset about -- don't they have a life?

 

I agree, except on your fiscal arch conservative comment. It's a way for people to vent on a five to four decision that they strongly disagree with and perhaps even hate. We can not forget that there are still many, many people who disagree about gay marriage. The battle is still on, sadly -- just listen to the Republican candidates for president.

[Phlmuscle]

I have written here before that I was drafted and served in an infantry unit in a brigade in Vietnam for a year (1968-1969). While I am not 100% in favor of the photograph in question, I have no problems with it being posted.

 

As you certainly know Pilmuscle, gay men served in every U.S. war and were present at Iwo Jima. Shame on the military and society in general for Don't Ask, Don't Tell ."

 

You missed my point William. I have no problem with the photograph for what it was originally meant to depict. The problem I have is using it as a comparison of the victory over gay marriage to the victory at Iwo Jima which is why it has surfaced again at this time. There is no comparison at all. And again it is disrespectful for the use in which it was intended at this time. Then again, liberals can say and do anything they want and get away with it these days.

[+ Gar1eth]

You missed my point William. I have no problem with the photograph for what it was originally meant to depict. The problem I have is using it as a comparison of the victory over gay marriage to the victory at Iwo Jima which is why it has surfaced again at this time. There is no comparison at all. And again it is disrespectful for the use in which it was intended at this time. Then again, liberals can say and do anything they want and get away with it these days.

I respect your opinion on the flag. But you are way off, I think, on the statement 'Liberals can do anything....' Or maybe you are right. But there certainly doesn't seem to be much holding conservatives back either.

 

Gman

[BgMstr4u]

Perhaps it is in poor taste. I can see how some would think so. I don't. I think it is wonderful.

 

Iwo Jima was a place of costly carnage, a struggle to win a war in which freedom was at stake, where defeat would mean the triumph of authoritarian fascism and an end to many kinds of personal liberty. When I look at the Freeman photo I see in it the parallel struggle of gay men for liberty. Many of us and our comrades and forebears fought and struggled for the right to live our lives openly and honestly, and if you read our history with attention, you will know that not a few suffered physically and even died in that cause. The buff bodies of the flag raisers are pleasing, to be sure, but they are not just eye candy. They are idealizing symbols of our own struggles, life and death struggles still with us, in certain parts of the Muslim world and elsewhere, even as we celebrate our rights achieved in the US and other western democracies. Our struggles are not trivial, even if some of us relish the trivial in celebration of our freedoms. Our freedom is linked to everyone's freedom, and our achievements open freedom's expanse to others as well as to ourselves.

 

I love this homage. I think it entirely appropriate, especially on Fourth of July weekend when we remember the liberty this nation gives us and many others to struggle to come out of the shadows into the sunlight, and which openly and generously permits and even honors those struggles.

[Epigonos]

For what it is worth -- absolutely nothing - this is my last comment on this topic. I see this entire issue as one of freedom of expression and I sincerely believe that to be one of the most basic principles on which this country was founded and hopefully for which it still stands. I'm sick to death of sacred cows regardless of their origin -- the political LEFT or the political RIGHT. I'm also sick to death of political correctness regardless of its origin -- the political LEFT or the political RIGHT. As far as I'm concerned we should ALL lighten up, sit back, relax, have a drink and enjoy life!

[+ Italiano]

Well said Epigones and BgMstr4u!

 

I would understand if the rainbow pic would have shown those 5 hunks naked or touching each other...but hey, lighten up!

Disrespectful...why? Where is the respect for the original pic and event taken away from?

 

Two amazing moments in history, different but somehow similar.

[Steven_Draker]

Who ever did this is being disrespectful. Those of us that were around at that time remember the thousands of American lives that were lost at Iwo Jima. To even think that one could compare the gay rights marriage issue to that is being disrespectful to the lives that were lost. Shame on them.

 

Out of curiosity, do you think guys wrapping themselves in the US flag are being more respectful or less respectful?

http://www.randyxboy.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/h3nn1n6.tumblr_US-flag.jpg

 

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-bvCC6AaneJU/U7bcjzOofSI/AAAAAAAAiJU/6Ba9HPi58IE/s1600/america-usa-flag-stars-stripes-naked-shirtless-men-guys-gay-muscle-ass-speedo-shirt-ass-beach-parade-swim-suit-jock-red-white-blue-4th-july-memorial-day-labor-holiday-army-navy-air-force-marines-01419.jpg

 

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-hmNOUUy-vkQ/U7Z1LYEb6cI/AAAAAAAA2P4/iBU30qXPBQM/s1600/america-usa-flag-stars-stripes-naked-shirtless-men-guys-gay-muscle-ass-speedo-shirt-ass-beach-parade-swim-suit-jock-red-white-blue-4th-july-memorial-day-labor-holiday-army-navy-air-force-marines-09.jpg

[Kenny]

Yes, it is so much more respectful to use the photo to advertise Ol' Glory beer. <burp>

 

And no gay American ever suffered and died as a result of the equality struggle in the land of the free. <burp>

 

Maybe the complainers are pissed that the homo version only has four men.

 

Then there's this, from the US Naval Institute: http://news.usni.org/2015/02/23/iwo-jima-at-70-the-most-reproduced-and-parodied-photo-in-history

[Steven_Draker]

Yes, it is so much more respectful to use the photo to advertise Ol' Glory beer. <burp>

http://i0.wp.com/news.usni.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/ol-glory.png?resize=625%2C811

 

Cheers!

[+ deej]

There's a lot of manufactured poutrage out there.

 

A furor over a ten-year old photo isn't much of a surprise. Heck, an NBC affiliate in some southern state received an absolutely SCATHING email last week complaining about the station altering their logo because of marriage equality. (Hint: the NBC peacock has ALWAYS been in those colors! It was intended to celebrate the arrival of color TV!)

 

People who are determined to complain will find something to complain about.

[mike carey]

There's a lot of manufactured poutrage out there.

 

A furor over a ten-year old photo isn't much of a surprise. Heck, an NBC affiliate in some southern state received an absolutely SCATHING email last week complaining about the station altering their logo because of marriage equality. (Hint: the NBC peacock has ALWAYS been in those colors! It was intended to celebrate the arrival of color TV!)

 

People who are determined to complain will find something to complain about.

+1 Deej

 

Looking back over uses and adaptations of the image, of all the uses in the USNI paper that Kenny and I linked to, only the 'peace', 'environmental' and now this use have been slammed. The fact that the Simpsons and Old Glory Beer got away with it (hell, I wonder how even the name old glory for a beer slipped through) makes me think that the use of the image is universally accepted as being a hommage rather than its exploitation. Where there is outrage, I would say for the most part it has nothing to do with the Iwo Jima image, and is mostly resentment at the ability of the issue (in this case LGBTI rights, not just SSM) to gain any publicity by whatever means.

 

PS I had no idea that NBC had been supporting SSM for 50 or so years. How forward thinking they are!!

[Kenny]

Out of curiosity, do you think guys wrapping themselves in the US flag are being more respectful or less respectful?

http://www.randyxboy.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/h3nn1n6.tumblr_US-flag.jpg

 

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-bvCC6AaneJU/U7bcjzOofSI/AAAAAAAAiJU/6Ba9HPi58IE/s1600/america-usa-flag-stars-stripes-naked-shirtless-men-guys-gay-muscle-ass-speedo-shirt-ass-beach-parade-swim-suit-jock-red-white-blue-4th-july-memorial-day-labor-holiday-army-navy-air-force-marines-01419.jpg

 

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-hmNOUUy-vkQ/U7Z1LYEb6cI/AAAAAAAA2P4/iBU30qXPBQM/s1600/america-usa-flag-stars-stripes-naked-shirtless-men-guys-gay-muscle-ass-speedo-shirt-ass-beach-parade-swim-suit-jock-red-white-blue-4th-july-memorial-day-labor-holiday-army-navy-air-force-marines-09.jpg

 

Old Glory meets New Glory

[+ deej]

PS I had no idea that NBC had been supporting SSM for 50 or so years. How forward thinking they are!!

 

LOL! I hadn't actually thought of that angle.

 

Actually, the colors on the NBC peacock are in the wrong order to be the rainbow flag so the complainer was wrong *there* too.