Taking Control of Escort Rates

[Guest lighthouse]

I like Devon, and think he is one of the most interesting and intriguing escorts to post here, but I would never hire him as an escort even if he bottomed. The reason is that the views that he expressed here and the quasi-review by Skyguy are exactly what I would expect from him based on my experience with super-star escorts. The price/quality ratio seldom pays off. I am grateful for this long post by Devon because I think it offers real insights into the mental mechanics of the super-star escort that makes the encounters not so much bad as unsatisfying.

 

>I don't feel like I have the

>luxury of slipping into a rut. I try what are for me new

>things -- Do a porn movie! Wax your balls (they're like silk,

>now, baby -- are your $100 Craig's List boy's? I didn't think

>so)! Stop trying to get bigger and just rip up (can you do

>your laundry on your $100 Craig's List boy's abs? I didn't

>think so)! Visit markets you haven't tried! Soon I'm

>probably going to do a redesign of the website, experimenting

>with the look and content to freshen things up and spark new

>interest (of course saving the current pages in case it

>bombs).

 

It is interesting that in the litany of things that he will do stay fresh, it is all about marketing, not abouthow he will keep the sense of innocence and wonderment about escort encunters that makes the encounter a joy for clients. In my experience, the best escorts focus on the latter and not the former, and when they cease to, they either evolve into super-star status and live off past reviews, idiosyncratic star-fucking clients, or they retire.

 

>Without intending to come off sounding

>like a prima donna, I really, really do want at least $200 for

>an hour of my time. That's why I'm charging it. And it's a

>floor, not a ceiling -- LOL. That's the "equalizing" price at

>which all comers are welcome. Now I believe Boston Guy

>himself has implied in the past that he presents himself as a

>youngish (early 40's I believe), fit, easy-going guy, which

>means he is at least offering to bring something to the table

>besides his desire not to pay as much as the escort wants to

>charge. Looking back on my escorting career I'm pretty sure

>the only times I've agreed to negotiate have been when the

>potential client impressed me by "putting up" something --

>like sending a pic or enticing me with a description that so

>piqued my curiosity I just had to agree. I have never been

>the kind of escort who asks for a pic, but that's the $200 me.

> Unfortunately the cheaper me isn't as much of a Will Rogers

>as the $200 me. The cheaper me HAS met men he didn't want to

>go to bad with. That's the sense in which, in my case at

>least, you get what you pay for. With me, $200 is the tint in

>the sunglasses that make everyone look like a VIP BEFORE I've

>met them.

 

Here again, we see the veiled contempt for his clients. In my experience the best escorts really enjoy sex and the connection with the client, or do a damn good job faking! My sense is that an escort who needs to tint his sunglasses to treat a client like a VIP is not an escort who I would ever want to hire. I suspect that the sentiments expressed by Skyguy reveal this attitude. Don't get me wrong, I think it is perfectly understandable that when an escort moves from hired whore to escort super-star or personal companion it must be very hard to keep the original sense of wonderment that they had as nobodies breaking into the biz. I think that is the reason that aside from the star-fuckers, other clients find it hard to reconcile the actual experience with a super-star escort and the hype and the reviews that preceded the experience.

 

>Another aspect to this is that one of the perks and great

>motivators for many escorts, myself included, is the ego rush

>that comes each time we hear someone wants to give us (in my

>case) $200 for the opportunity to be with us for an hour.

>That is so hot to me. After doing and a half years of doing

>this work I still can't believe it. Someone telling me they

>don't value my time that much? Not so hot. Not an auspicious

>beginning for a hot session. Not my kind of humiliation

>scene.

 

Imagine if every service professional adopted an attitude that they would be personally affronted and would not treat clients well for whom they discounted prices and offered sale prices ....!

 

>And another thing (sorry): while from the client's perspective

>there may be not be much of a correlation between price and

>quality, from the escort's perspective this is NOT necessarily

>true. When I was working on that "Ho on the Go" documentary

>-- and I WILL do something with that footage someday -- I

>heard repeatedly from escorts something that matched my own

>experience: that every time they raised their rates the

>clients got better. It's not that we didn't meet any great

>guys at the lower rate (and I'm not casting any aspersions on

>any posters here who prefer to hire at the lower rate), but in

>the aggregate the people who literally value our services more

>seem to treat us better -- the ways in which they value us

>show up in other manifestations in addition to the extra cash.

 

Here again, this goes along way to explaining the disconnect between the star escort and the actual experience. In my experience, the best escorts perform at an optimal level and thus earn the perks. Devon seems to be saying "pay my going rate and I'll give you a workman-like job (but slightly better than had you asked for a discount) but take me for a ride in your Jag or dinner in a 5 star restaurant and I'll show you a great time. I think that is backwardds. An escort earns a trip in the Jag and a dinner chex Alain Ducasse when he makes a stellar performance in bed. Again, it is becoming clearer to me that the super-star escort can make a great income for a time before his career goes nova by targeting star-fuckers, but for the rest of us clients, I think we can find better price/quality escorts with a little more effort and self-discipline.

[Guest Utopia]

Guys I didn't mean to begin this thread to single out a specific escort much less one who I believe has reasonable rates.

 

Come on reviews are for the pro and con posts about Devon ... it isn't fair to him or to those who want to discuss taking control of the escort's rates.

 

[Guest DevonSFescort]

>I am grateful for this long post by Devon because I

>think it offers real insights into the mental mechanics of the

>super-star escort that makes the encounters not so much bad as

>unsatisfying.

 

You know, axe, I've actually always had a certain amount of time for your "superstar" theory, although like your other themes (the Zionist menace; versatile escorts who (gasp!) don't show up ready to bottom after your failure to communicate that that's what you wanted; how much more sophisticated and superior you are to clients who book appointments in advance) you tend to repeat it over and over rather than develop it, because you're so convinced from the outset that you are absolutely right that there's no room for any development (or, for that matter, rethinking) actually to occur. Nevertheless, this one at least contains a kernal of credibility. One does hear about jaded escorts and it seems reasonable to suppose that some of the "superstars" feel they can rest on their laurels and phone in their sessions. In the post you quote from above I go out of my way to praise James's Craig's List stories for the sense of freshness and excitement they convey and state that I've never much believed there's a correlation between price and quality. (How could I, given that I can't count the number of clients who've told me they had fun with me than with ______________ who charged $300?)

 

But the idea that my mental mechanics are those of a "superstar" is just laugh-out-loud funny. Don't look now, but I am the epitome, not of the superstar, but of the niche-marketeer -- a character actor who seems to be in everything but whose name you can't place, if you prefer an analogy to the "legitimate" entertainmnent world. Reading my posts to see how superstars think is like interviewing Robert Forster to figure out how Britney Spears' mind works. Anyone with even a passing familiarity with my website, reviews and diary knows that sexually I'm known primarily for nipple play and muscle scenes. Nipple play and muscle scenes! And I'm a skinny guy, I might add. Yes, skinny with muscles: at 6' and 31 years of age, I'm proud to be the world's tallest, oldest lightweight teenage bodybuilder :+ , but never in my most delusionary fantasies have I confused that with anything like a kind of superstardom. And yes, there's the diary, which I have never charged a penny for and which is available to anyone who wants to read it, regardless of whether he or she has even the slightest interest in hiring me. But that makes me a skinny muscle escort with great tits and a blog. Not a superstar. Not even close.

 

>It is interesting that in the litany of things that he will do

>stay fresh, it is all about marketing, not about how he will

>keep the sense of innocence and wonderment about escort

>encunters that makes the encounter a joy for clients.

 

Actually, waxed balls and ripped abs, whatever they may do for my marketing, are tangible improvements to the PRODUCT, which does include my body. I can see why they wouldn't be of any interest to you, since they're located in areas outside my asshole, but for some other people they do enhance the "encunter" (sic -- love the double entendre of your typo). I'm not sure what you want me to list with regard to "innocence...wonderment...(and) joy" since those are not only intangible feelings that can only be co-created with each individual client. I love how you're trying to use my failure to come up with a formula or one-size-fits-all model for "keeping the sense of innocence and wonderment" as evidence that I must be jaded.

 

As for doing porn, visiting new markets and redesigning my site, yes, those are all marketing moves, but in my case they are the moves of a man who's chasing, you guessed it, a NICHE MARKET. In the case of the muscle scenes, a niche within a niche. You should see how the threads sink like a stone on Muscle Service when I post my travels, while every hiccup by one of the big guys is reported on with breathless excitement and gets hits numbering in the thousands. It's humiliating. But enough interested eyeballs manage to see them to make it worthwhile. That's we niche-marketeers do: we pick up a few clients here, a few clients there, and anywhere we can, even in what don't ostensibly seem like the most promising places. We keep traveling because we have to, especially in a recession.

 

>>With me, $200 is the tint in the sunglasses that make everyone >>look like a VIP BEFORE I've met them.

 

>My sense is that an escort who needs to tint his sunglasses to

>treat a client like a VIP is not an escort who I would ever

>want to hire.

 

That would be a relief to hear if I hadn't known for quite a long time that you had no intention of hiring me, since I don't bottom and am not a twink, and all you want to do is plow twinks' holes -- provided, of course, that they can "keep a sense of innocence and wonderment" going throughout the proceedings. But I appreciate your going to such great lengths to notify me that I will absolutely, definitely, really, really, for-sure for-sure NOT be getting any late night calls from you EVEN IF I a) take up bottoming again AND b) turn back time 8-12 years. Of course, if I did either or both of those two things, I probably wouldn't be available because I'd be a (all together now) SUPERSTAR with an abundance of starfuckers, instead of a niche escort who has never once pretended to cater to your corner of the market. This is really saying something, but I think you've managed to create the most thoroughly redundant post this message board has ever seen.

 

By the way, the key word in my excerpted line above is BEFORE. I want to feel that the client is a VIP BEFORE he walks in the door. Once I take someone on as a client, which is what happens when they've agreed to the rate I charge for my time, he's in. He's a VIP, no questions asked (except those necessary for logistics or to clarify what he's looking for, etc.), no picture requested, no conditions added to the ones we've already agreed upon. I would not be able to look at would-be clients who haggled me down because to them all service providers are interchangeable the same way, which is why I do us both the great favor of not accepting their overtures.

 

>>Another aspect to this is that one of the perks and great

>>motivators for many escorts, myself included, is the ego

>rush that comes each time we hear someone wants to give us (in my

>>case) $200 for the opportunity to be with us for an hour.

>>That is so hot to me. After two and a half years of doing

>>this work I still can't believe it. Someone telling me they

>>don't value my time that much? Not so hot. Not an auspicious

>>beginning for a hot session. Not my kind of humiliation

>>scene.

>

>Imagine if every service professional adopted an attitude that

>they would be personally affronted and would not treat clients

>well for whom they discounted prices and offered sale prices

>....!

 

Do you ever read your posts before you submit them? Of course I wouldn't be "personally affronted" by, or give poor treatment to, a client to whom I'd "offered sale prices!" For that matter, I don't "offer" sale prices in the first place, and the scenario I'm describing above is one in which someone approaches ME, tells me they don't think I'm worth the fee I charge and then expect me to get excited about offering a lower price WHEN THEY ARE OFFERING NOTHING ELSE BUT THEIR DESIRE TO SPEND LESS MONEY.

 

It's fascinating to me that one minute you're complaining about escorts who fail to "keep a sense of innocence and wonderment" going while you drill away and the next minute revealing that you really do think they are just like any other service provider. Tell me, how does your plumber "keep a sense of innocence and wonderment" about unclogging your toilet?

 

>>I heard repeatedly from escorts something that matched my own

>>experience: that every time they raised their rates the

>>clients got better. It's not that we didn't meet any great

>>guys at the lower rate (and I'm not casting any aspersions

>>on any posters here who prefer to hire at the lower rate), but

>>in the aggregate the people who literally value our services

>>more seem to treat us better -- the ways in which they value us

>>show up in other manifestations in addition to the extra

>cash.

>

>Devon seems to be saying "pay my going

>rate and I'll give you a workman-like job (but slightly better

>than had you asked for a discount) but take me for a ride in

>your Jag or dinner in a 5 star restaurant and I'll show you a

>great time.

 

Well, it just goes to show how obsessed you are with your own theme. Anyone who knows me knows I don't give a flying fuck about "Jags" and 5-star restaurants. When clients hire me for an evening date and ask me to pick the restaurant, I take them to my favorite place, where my favorite dish costs $8.95 and the ambience is warm and casual. Sometimes we split an appetizer and we generally take a cab there. I don't touch dessert. My "evening date" rate is a whopping $450 and my 12-hour overnight is $750. How many of the "superstars" charge less than that?

 

What is more, I will thank you not to put words in my mouth to the effect that I do a "workman-like job." The ONLY person making that claim about me is someone with half a dozen posts to his name and whose story is either a fabrication or is so riddled with contradictions that one can only imagine what a tortured, conflicted soul he must be. Let's review: he'd been reading my diary for months, and was familiar with my reviews, but "could care less" about nipple play and doesn't find body worship "fun," and yet he hired -- of all people -- me. He likes escorts who assume he wants a blowjob and start sucking away...but the only escort charging more than $200 that he tells us he likes is...Aaron Westin?!? The recently retired "bi-mostly-straight" guy who doesn't suck dick and who got reviews and numerous posts on the message center describing him as aloof, remote and mechanical?? And he's telling us he had an experience with a "nice guy with a nice body" that was "okay" and left him "not unhappy," yet he felt he needed to devote two posts to making me sound cold, selfish, and unwilling to make a connection?? Am I the only person who thinks this just doesn't add up? And yet you're willing to stack this ancedote up against dozens of reviews, many from multiple reviewers with established track records, to the opposite effect, and furthermore to extrapolate that it must be not only true in this one instance but characteristic of how I operate! Thanks a lot, asshole. If this is how you treat people you like and are intrigued by, I'd hate to get on your bad side. x(

[Guest lighthouse]

As with my comments about Ben, I am surprised by how personally you two take a little constructive criticism. As in his case, your overly-defensive, personal reaction only serves to underscore my analysis. I think you are interesting and intriguing whether you care to hear that or not. I think you would be an interesting person to have a drink and a chat with, but I would never hire an escort with your attitudes to the job as expressed here (even if you did fall into my market segment) without a discount or a money-back guarantee. As for Ben, I admit a continuing curiosity, but not enough of one to stand in line at his rates. I wish you both the best of luck with your future endeavours.

[Guest lighthouse]

Come on now, if an escort can write a marketing soliloquy here, surely there can be a reply or two. I have no clue whether his or any other escort's rates are inflated or not, but I do think that any escort's attack on discounting must be open to questioning and.or critique here. Have we really gone so soft in Hooville thateven that is not permitted? If so, then it would seem that only positive things can ever be said about escorts in general or in particular.

[+ SundayZip]

Wow! Devon, I like you...

[N.N.]

A key quality I look for an escort is attentiveness to the

client's needs and situation. This is not so easily faked;

how much an escort is or isn't self-centered often shows

through no matter how they try to behave toward clients.

 

A polite offer of 10% below an escort's published rate is

not an insult. When an escort tries to cast such an offer

as a statement that he's not worth his price, and calls the

offer humiliating, that suggests to me that the escort is,

by habit, thinking first and foremost about himself.

[woodlawn]

RE: Deciding What You're Willing to Pay!

 

>Also how long have you done your job? Do you now suck at it

>every day since you can't possibly be good at something that

>you do each day - as your post claims.

 

That is not what his post claims. I think he is referring to a job that involves creating an atmosphere of spontaneity and excitement for the customer. I don't find it hard to believe that creating such an atmosphere can become more difficult as time goes by.

 

 

>Yes you should have said something about your experience about

>Devon to Devon. If you're too sniveling to do that

 

My, my, my! What happened to the new rules about maintaining civility and avoiding personal attacks? Or are you under the impression that they are supposed to apply to everyone except you?

 

> then yes

>you should have written a review. It's unfair to him and to

>us that you bring it up here WAY after the fact and that he,

>as he says, has no idea who you are or what happened during

>the appointment. I'm surprised that the text, which was much

>more extensive and detailed then most reviews that are posted

>these days wasn't deleted along with a polite note from the

>monitors to write a review if you want to discuss your

>experiences with escorts.

 

Given the fact that people who post negative reviews often find themselves the target of some pretty vicious accusations from the escort in question, I don't think you should find it hard to understand why someone might be reluctant to do that.

 

> I hope this doesn't become a new

>stragtegy for people who want to cast aspersions at escorts

 

I hope people will continue to use this site to provide whatever information they're comfortable providing on their escort experiences in whatever manner they're comfortable providing it. Because if they don't, this site will no longer be of much use to anyone.

[Guest DevonSFescort]

I am not the least bit surprised at your inability to refute a single point I made, nor am I the least bit surprised that, as with every discussion you enter into on this message center (with the exception of threads you start soliciting advice on how to deal with the latest communication problems you're having with the latest escort), you are ending this conversation in exactly the same position you started. That's because such mundane things as reasoned arguments can't possibly hold a candle to the ongoing film loop you've got playing over and over and over and over again. It's no wonder you're constantly being surprised by escorts' reactions, both in your hiring life and here on the message center: at any given time, you're not even paying attention to the conversation you're participating in because you feel you already know all the answers, and that all the input can only lead to the same inevitable conclusion. How could you NOT be getting caught off guard all the time? But no matter: you just simply decide that the reaction you weren't expecting is further proof of how right you were all along. I haven't even changed your opinion that I am interesting and intriguing because NOTHING changes your opinion. In fact, I may even have lost ground: you have shifted from your most welcome (though stupendeously unsurprising) assurance that you would never hire me to listing two conditions in which you possibly might. I used to think Benjamin and I had nothing in common as escorts except excellent reputations in our respective corners (okay, in his case it's an entire wing) of the escorting universe, but now I see we share at least one other thing: a creep on the message center whose icky fascination we just can't seem to shake. That, and the fact that we'll both muddle through quite nicely without -- oh, chagrin! -- ever being hired by the likes of you.

 

(Memo to Benjamin: I'll donate the rat's ass if you cover the shipping costs. It won't kill us to give this poor loser that much, will it?)

 

I'll take a pass on that drink. Believe me, you can't afford it.

[woodlawn]

RE: Deciding What You're Willing to Pay!

 

>3) Upon receipt of a classy note from someone else -- a

>personal note -- you decide to share the note on a

>public bulletin board. I'm rather glad you did because it

>reinforces my belief that Devon is a classy guy. But sharing

>a personal note in this kind of way on a public forum is

>anything but a classy thing to do.

 

I'm confused by your use of the term "personal note." Do the two people we're talking about have anything but a business relationship (and an extremely brief one at that)? If not, I fail to see how there can be anything "personal" about their communications.

 

 

>4) After asking an escort for a discount, you receive a

>negative response. But the escort thinks it over and calls

>back with an offer. Instead of accepting what you were asking

>for in the first place, you put down what he was saying as

>"yadda, yadda' and laugh at the prospect of the escort not

>being able to pay his cell phone bill.

 

I got the impression that the escort had reacted in a rather unpleasant manner to skyguy's suggestion. If so, I don't wonder that skyguy's reaction to the second conversation was less than sympathetic.

 

 

>All in all, it's not a very nice picture.

 

Look on the bright side. It gave you yet another opportunity to lecture someone else on how to behave, which as we all know is one of your favorite pastimes.

[Guest DevonSFescort]

RE: Deciding What You're Willing to Pay!

 

If I'm not being presumptuous in thinking you meant your comments at least partly as a defense of me, I thank you for them very much, giovoni. However, I disagree with the notion that comments about escorts should be restricted to the reviews. Skyyguy's posts say so much more about him than they do about me that they can't do me any harm. Let them die by exposure to light, not by censorship. Besides, in practice, many more eyes see reviews than they do posts on this message center, even when participation was at a much higher level than it is today. I'd RATHER be smeared here than there, though I am quite capable of defending myself in either arena. Wouldn't you?

[Guest alanm]

RE: Deciding What You're Willing to Pay!

 

Hey Devon, I have tried to keep up to date on all the posting, but

this is #86 and getting sick of the topic. But, I want to commend you you for one of your comments.

 

In one of your longest posting you made the point about the frame of mind you might bring to a call with a client who had negotiated you

down to a lower rate. I am glad an escort had the guts to finally say that. Negotiating prices is more common in other parts of the world than in this country. I have talked to enough successful escorts to understand that answering e-mail and phone call can be a part time job in itself, so adding to that by negotiating the price with most of the prospective clients seems almost double the work.

 

More basically, I wonder how many of those who have posted here in favor of negotiating escort prices would enjoy constantly bargaining for their services in their day jobs? I respect Boston Guy; he has

apparently turned negotiating into a full time hobby. What about the rest of the guys who have written on this subject? I like to get a bargains myself, but airfairs, hotel rates and used cars, etc. are my limit, when you get to something as personal as escorting I do not know how negotiating the price will not result in some escorts believing there's not a lot of respect there on the part of the client. My guess is that they would be correct.

[+ Lucky]

RE: Deciding What You're Willing to Pay!

 

If an escort wants more than I am willing to pay, I don't negotiate. I will possibly tell him what I am willing to pay and see how he responds, but typically I don't. I have the same feeling that has been expressed here, that an escort will feel less enthused about the service if he isn't getting what he asked. But, I agree with Boston Guy that $200 is enough, so there will be no Rico Suave for me in LA. He wants $250.

[Guest lighthouse]

>I am not the least bit surprised at your inability to refute

>a single point I made

 

Not so at all. I think your rather lengthy posts and my rather lengthy replies set out our respective views quite well. I really don't have much more to add, excecept to note that the tone of your responses seems to bear out what I said. Apart from that, the only other quibble that I have is why you think that a niche marketing strategy is inconsistent with a super star following or a super star marketing strategy (take your pick) is entirely beyond me.

 

>That's

>because such mundane things as reasoned arguments can't

>possibly hold a candle to the ongoing film loop you've got

>playing over and over and over and over again.

 

So let me get this straight, you are open-minded despite the fact that you reject my arguments, but I am not because I reject yours? Yes, indeed, you are a very logical escort.

 

>It's no wonder

>you're constantly being surprised by escorts' reactions, both

>in your hiring life and here on the message center:

 

I just love your projections. I have had an overwhelmingly positive experience with escorts (including with your former twink lover). I have written here about less than a handful of negative or more precisely unsatisfactory experiences, and some how you project that to a communication problem. (For the record, one experience related to an escort who became abusive after I cancelled him for being over an hour late, another related to an escort who agreed to a fee for 2 days, but arrived before midnight on a Friday, and left early before 7:00p.m. on the Saturday after a nice time and with my agreement, but who insisted on being paid for 2 days, another experience related to my favorite escort of all time who constantly tried to convert the relationship to a sugar daddy one after I had long since told him that I did not want to hire him any more, and after he agreed to travel to see me on an unpaid basis.) Perhaps, the problems lies more with your reading comprehension.

 

>In fact, I may even

>have lost ground: you have shifted from your most welcome

>(though stupendeously unsurprising) assurance that you would

>never hire me to listing two conditions in which you possibly

>might.

 

Don't humor yourself, I made it abundantly clear that I would never hire you even if you were in my market segment, but that I might have a drink and a chat with you (not at my expense however).

 

Look I am sorry that you take my comments so personally. I guess they hit rather too close to home. I sincerely wish you the best, although without a discount or money-back guarantee I would never hire you even if you were my type because your business attitudes get set off my yellow-flag alert big time. That said, I think you are an interesting and intriguing person, and I wish you well and congratulate you if you can get star-fuckers, or if you prefer, niche-suckers to pay your rate without haggling.

[N.N.]

RE: Deciding What You're Willing to Pay!

 

>But, I agree with Boston Guy that $200 is enough, so

>there will be no Rico Suave for me in LA. He wants $250.

 

You're not missing anything. I hired Rico Suave for

massage once, and he was as aloof as anyone I've ever

hired either for massage or escort. He was disinterested

the whole time--except for when I handed him money at

the end, he managed to smile for a moment at that point.

[giovoni]

RE: Deciding What You're Willing to Pay!

 

They were partially a defense of you but not specifically you as I have no idea how you work or what you're like in person. However I still think if someone is going to say more on a post then most people write in a review they should do it in a review. If this sort of thing became a regular occurrence it could get out of hand very quickly. Insinuating your experiences with an escort into postings on the message board without having to put them into a review is not the way to discuss your experiences with a specific escort at a specific time. In fact the flow of the conversation, thanks to his posting your private note to him, looked just like a review and a response to one. IF he HAD written a review when he saw you, giving you the chance to make it right with him the way you tried in your letter and then later referenced it in a conversation I think that's fine. I just don't buy the subtle insertion of the experience in this tread, using you to illustrate a point which had nothing to do with you specifically.

 

Requiring that posters keep their specific comments about specific encounters with an escort to the reviews is no more censorship then making sure Dr Suess books are kept out of the engineering section of a bookstore.

 

As for being smeared in a more watched arena I suppose you have a point though I've read your writing and I am sure that as you said you could deflect any unwarranted criticisms just fine. However, the class that you showed in your response to him which I imagine would have been just what you would have said in any response to a review he wrote also is not viewed by the wider audience in the review section.

 

 

Gio in Denver

 

"Never Argue with a Fool---Those around you may not notice the Difference"

[Guest lighthouse]

RE: Deciding What You're Willing to Pay!

 

>More basically, I wonder how many of those who have posted

>here in favor of negotiating escort prices would enjoy

>constantly bargaining for their services in their day jobs? I

>respect Boston Guy; he has

>apparently turned negotiating into a full time hobby. What

>about the rest of the guys who have written on this subject? I

>like to get a bargains myself, but airfairs, hotel rates and

>used cars, etc. are my limit, when you get to something as

>personal as escorting I do not know how negotiating the price

>will not result in some escorts believing there's not a lot of

>respect there on the part of the client. My guess is that they

>would be correct.

 

I also am in a service profession, and negotiating price is quite common. Sometimes, I discount, sometimes , I don't, butI don't feel personally insulted if someone does not acept my rate. I just take the next in line.

 

I don't think I actually negotiate escort rates in a strict sense. However, I do tend to ask an escort what there rate is over the phone, even if it is listed in the Ad. Very often the escort lowers the rate from what is posted in the Ad with no prompting from me. In part, I think this comes from escorts who engage in price discrimination in various outlets but can't remember the prices posted.

 

Another form of negotiated price, I suppose is choosing to hire an escort who is listed at an agency and as an independent at his independent rate, or offering to hire an agency escort as an independent, but letting him name the price.

 

A third form of "negotiation" that I have engaged in is typified by a recent experience in London. The igh end of the going rate in London is about 120 Pounds, but an escort asked for 150 Pounds. I offered 120, and he declined it and so I declined to hire him. A similar experience occurred recently in another European capital where I would guess the high end of the going rate to be about EUR 120 - EUR 150, but the escort offered himself for EUR 200, but EUR 300 with his partner. I noted the price discrepancy for one, but was uninterested in two so I declined.

 

Would anyone here find any of these examples of "negotiation" to be objectionable?

[giovoni]

RE: Deciding What You're Willing to Pay!

 

>That is not what his post claims. I think he is referring to

>a job that involves creating an atmosphere of spontaneity and

>excitement for the customer. I don't find it hard to believe

>that creating such an atmosphere can become more difficult as

>time goes by.

 

Here is what he said:

 

But an example, as you state, as a pro, who goes through the motions. I think his comments about a connection are similar to yours, how can you if you do this every day?

 

In my reading that's exactly what he's saying... I think it's uncharacteristically generous of you to interpret that phrase in the best possible light for him. I have no problem believing that a good escort can create an air of spontaneity over and over.. it's a skill that is rare but I think some escorts possess that skill. It's no different then many other skills professionals must use and be diligent about keeping sharp day after day.

 

 

>>Yes you should have said something about your experience

>about

>>Devon to Devon. If you're too sniveling to do that

>

>My, my, my! What happened to the new rules about maintaining

>civility and avoiding personal attacks? Or are you under the

>impression that they are supposed to apply to everyone except

>you?

 

That was too much for you? Wow... I'll take sniveling back.. should I use cowardly? Disingenuous? dishonest? Lacking integrity? which words do you think best describes waiting to bring up a specific encounter with an escort until it will do the most damage and cast the most doubt on that escort?

 

>Given the fact that people who post negative reviews often

>find themselves the target of some pretty vicious accusations

>from the escort in question, I don't think you should find it

>hard to understand why someone might be reluctant to do that.

 

More vicious then you're characterizing my attacks on him? Besides, by posting the exact same information that he would have posted in a review he's opening himself up to the exact same sort of attacks since he mentioned Devon by name and knew he was reading this thread. I really don't buy that fear of escort rebuttals kept him from writing the review in the first place.

 

>> I hope this doesn't become a new

>>stragtegy for people who want to cast aspersions at escorts

>

>I hope people will continue to use this site to provide

>whatever information they're comfortable providing on their

>escort experiences in whatever manner they're comfortable

>providing it. Because if they don't, this site will no longer

>be of much use to anyone.

 

As I said in my response to Devon, there is a place for reviews and a place for conversation. They are kept separate by the owners of the site for a reason (though I may not know the exact reasons). As far as this particular 'review' situation goes though it seems that Devon doesn't care that it was sprung on him here more of less anonymously so I'm not going to spend all that much more energy worrying about it. Apparently it struck me as much more offensive then it struck almost everyone else here, so I guess I'll go try to loosen my ass a couple notches.

 

Gio in Denver

 

"Never Argue with a Fool---Those around you may not notice the Difference"

[VaHawk]

RE: Deciding What You're Willing to Pay!

 

"Requiring that posters keep their specific comments about specific encounters with an escort to the reviews is no more censorship then making sure Dr Suess books are kept out of the engineering section of a bookstore"

 

With all due respect, I have to disagree with this point of view. After all this site does have a Deli section provided for the express purpose of discussing escorts. That's why you see all those threads that start with 411 in that section. Are you advocating that a client with knowledge of an escort should not respond to such queries, as they had their chance to post a review and ergo deserve no right to participate?

[Guest DevonSFescort]

>the only other quibble that I have is why

>you think that a niche marketing strategy is inconsistent with

>a super star following or a super star marketing strategy

>(take your pick) is entirely beyond me.

 

By all means let me help you. In the escorting universe, there is a tiny, tiny, TINY percentage of clients whose bill I fit perfectly just as I am: meaning I've got the stats they like (and remember, I'm only six inches cut which denies me access to a HUGE percentage of the market), have the same sexual proclivities as they do, and charge a price they're willing to pay. Superstars, like versatile twinks, for example, have many, many, many times more clients for whom THEY fit the bill perfectly -- so many that they can't begin to get to all of them.

 

What the tiny-ness of my niche means is, first and foremost, that I have to cover more territory just to be doing okay -- not getting rich, not even coming close; I live in a small studio apartment in one of the cheapest parts of SF, do not own a car, and in all honesty would be caught unprepared if a client DID want to take me to a five-star restaurant because I haven't got the wardrobe for it -- just okay: no debt, no danger of the cellphone being cut off, enough money to pay for paint and canvas, to hire an escort every now and then myself, and to put a depressingly small amount into savings. Secondly, it means that I have to depend a lot more on what I would call one-offs: clients whose type I normally wouldn't conform to but who are, as you say, "intrigued" by my offbeat personality and who like my body enough to give me a try when they're in the mood for something unusual. Coincidentally, last night I had a drink with a former client who hired me once -- ONCE! -- a little less than two years ago but who has religiously followed the diary ever since (and for awhile before). We hit it off very well and we always get together for a drink or a meal whenever we're in the same city. Remembering our appointment, he smiled and said what many have said: "You are without a doubt, hands down THE most unusual escort I've ever been with." He's made it explicitly clear, both at the time and many times since, including last night, that he thoroughly enjoyed himself, left feeling absolutely satisfied and more than a little surprised at that fact. He hangs the moon on me and is one of a select group of people I could count on under any circumstance. But he has never hired me since then, and probably never will, because, like you, he is a die-hard, dyed-in-the-wool top. And you know what? That's okay by me. In fact, I think it's a beautiful thing. I'm glad he chose me that night for his little ramble off the beaten path. I wasn't trying to change him or convert him to anything, just show him something a little different, give him a snapshot of some unusual scenery he'd never seen. I got him back safe. And we're friends and he is even an occasional recurring character in the diary. And you have no idea how glad I am for that. But if I were a superstar I'd have made thousands off him, compared to the one time $300 for two hours that he gladly paid me -- without haggling. What's the difference between me and a superstar? Thousands of dollars, in the case of just this one customer alone. There are plenty of others like him, though we may not all go out drinking together. That's one of the ironies of your trying to paint me as a greedy, cynical money-grubber. My choices, the very nature of how I present myself and any number of controversial diary entries I could point to have consistently shown that with me the dollar is anything but almighty. The ONLY area in which I could be considered hard-nosed is my unwillingness to negotiate with people who themselves have nothing to put up except an unwillingness to pay my full fee. Those who would take that as a sign of how I treat my clients are deluding themselves from the start, for people who expect discounts before we've even met, are, by definition, NOT my clients. And by the way, I am perfectly polite to those people. I have, however spoken plainly in this forum about how their boorish advances make me feel, and if my remarks dissuade people I don't want as clients from trying to become clients then we're all winners. It's quite simple, really. I don't want people who don't think I'm worth my fee to hire me. I don't understand why you think I should care whether they like my "attitude" or not.

 

>So let me get this straight, you are open-minded despite the

>fact that you reject my arguments, but I am not because I

>reject yours?

 

No, I'm open-minded because I actually DO change my mind from time to time, and I have gone on the record many times on this message board and in my diary stating that I was wrong, or describing how my position has evolved. I'm sure you have too, but I think the last time was sometime around the last time pigs flew.

 

>Don't humor yourself, I made it abundantly clear that I would

>never hire you even if you were in my market segment

 

I would say redundantly clear.

 

>but that I might have a drink and a chat with you (not at my expense

>however).

 

You mean you'd let ME buy YOU a drink? Gee. I'm a cheap date (see my rates and the post above about dining preferences) and you're a cheap detente.

 

>Look I am sorry that you take my comments so personally. I

>guess they hit rather too close to home.

 

Actually, the comment I took personally was the one that hit furthest from home:

 

>>Devon seems to be saying "pay my going

>>rate and I'll give you a workman-like job (but slightly better

>>than had you asked for a discount) but take me for a ride in

>>your Jag or dinner in a 5 star restaurant and I'll show you a

>>great time

 

Please allow me to rephrase so you'll know what Devon actually IS saying: "pay my going rate and I will do my best to show you a wonderful time. Please let me know if there is any way in which I am falling short of that goal so I can make it right. There is no need to worry about what the service would be like if you managed to haggle a discount out of me because I simply don't haggle. And I don't care where we go or what we do as long as you're enjoying yourself and feeling that with me, you are free to be yourself."

 

And coming from you, by the way, I take it very personally indeed because, in fact, we have had a rapport over the last couple of years, although I've never approved of the way you advance your views about Israel and attack those who disagree, and although I did not appreciate your email detailing the flaws you detected in my "former twink lover," with whom, at the time, you made the experience sound less than "overwhelmingly positive." I didn't and still don't know what I was supposed to do with that useless information. But overall I have enjoyed your uniquely quirky presence in this message center and even come to find your foibles kind of endearing, as they serve to humanize you. In reading some of your past superstar posts I've had to chuckle as I realize that in some respects you and I are similar: I, too, tend to hire "on the spot" and wouldn't "stand in line" for anybody. It is for that reason that I, too, will probably never hire Benjamin Nicholas. (But unlike you I don't resent or blame him for this fact, but see it simply as a reflection of my hiring habits.) When I have given you solicited advice I have cared enough about you to consider it carefully, and to speak in the tone of someone I respect enough to give the truth as I see it. Though we have disagreed on our fair share of topics, sometimes we have agreed too, and you have never known me to be anything but straightforward and decent.

 

Does all that make us friends? No, but it did add up to making me like you in my own way. So much so that until you launched this intensely personal, venomous campaign against me, I would gladly have met you for that drink. In fact, I am telling the truth when I say that once I came close to emailing you with just such a suggestion, though I don't remember exactly what prompted that occasion. And who knows, after we'd met, what kind of discount you might have been able to charm me into? Maybe I'd even have uncrossed my legs just for you, if you're as suave with the boys as you seem to think you are. But we'll never know that now -- you will never, ever get a chance to penetrate a hole ten times tighter than the tightest twink hole you've ever fucked -- because it ticked you off so much that I have the audacity to set my own rates and stick to them that you had to create a wildly false caricature of me to conform to a stereotype you've had etched in your head for a long time. So yes, I did take that personally, very personally, just as you intended. And I don't believe you're sorry and therefore don't accept your apology. I trust that explains my "tone."

[Chuck50]

I can't believe we are spending this much time on this subject. I have stayed away from it long enough. I have watched my buddies be sucked in and now I guess it is time to go into the Escort Drain of no return. I feel if you dont like the price of a car you move on to a new dealer, or the price of a house then you look in a new neighborhood, clothes if you can't aford then you go to a cheaper store. If you want class then you gotta pay that is if you really want it. We are in most cases taking about class if we don't get it then sooner or later all will know. I pick and choose and can say do my homework and of all the guys I have picked they were all winners and worth every penny. Doesn't mean that other guys out there don't feel gouged but the bottom line is. We hold the key and if you don't want to turn the key then move on an find a cheaper model. I am really tired of this subject I am defending no one but us who choose to have who we want and it is our right to pay them either what they ask for or what we think they are worth. For some I have been with they were worth more to me. They have never disappointed me. So I wish that a couple of sore losers don't try to make all the escorts out to be all about money cause I know some of them are not just about the money. I would be stupid if I thought that without the money they would still be there. But if your DR charges you too much you find a new doc or your company changes health care groups. HUGS Chuck I love my boys!!!!

[pierrot]

In my experience cost is not too related to quality. I've had a number escorting experiences in NYC, all of them for $200, 250 or $300. The two best experiences so far were for $200. The least good was $300. I actually can't tell what makes an escort think he's worth $300 as opposed to 200 or 250, or if it's just a shot in the dark.

As for me, I've decided $250 is henceforth my top fee, and I'll choose a guy for 200 in most cases. There are top quality guys, well reviewed, in NYC for $200.

[Guest DevonSFescort]

RE: Deciding What You're Willing to Pay!

 

>Would anyone here find any of these examples of "negotiation"

>to be objectionable?

 

Not me. Ironic, isn't it?

[VaHawk]

I was innocently walking down a country lane

When lo and behold my eyes espied a sight quite insane

Two piggies moshing in a muddy/shitty slop pit

I'm better as I only shit green

Shouted one in a shrilly voice quite obscene

The other squealed in reply that brown is the color of your shit

But whether green, black, milky white or what the hell pink

All that putrid shit stinks

 

Neither of you, imo, have shown any class whatsoever in your discourses on this thread. Can't speak for any one else, but take it offline and get it on, as it sounds like the classic domination/submissive scene.

 

Sounds like you two would be a perfect match, imo. One is denigrating clients and one is denigrating escorts. Just mo, but you both leave something to be desired.

 

If you had any decency, which neither of you possess, you wouldn't try to drag other escorts and/or clients down into the shit pit with you.

 

BTW: IMO, your assessment of Benjamin screaming NOOOOOOOOO! is right on the mark! :o

[BuckyXTC]

Having been preoccupied with other matters, I finally decided to wade through this rather long thread, and as a result, came to some conclusions.

 

First, I've never negotiated prices with any escort I've hired. With some escorts I've hired multiple times, sometimes they have charged me for less than the time we spent together. When I'm seeking escort services, I look for someone that looks compatible with my interests and my budget. That's not to say that I might not splurge for someone particularly appealing to my tastes, but by and large, my hiring to date has not been in the extreme range of prices. I've never paid less than $150 an hour, and never more than $250.

 

Secondly, this thread has reinforced my favorable opinions of Devon. Although Devon is a bit older than I normally hire, I think he's delightful and would seriously consider hiring him if he were in the neighborhood. Skyyguy's sharing of his less than happy experience with Devon inclines me not to think less of Devon, but to urge folks like Skyyguy to spend a little less on escort hiring so you can sign up for a good assertiveness training workshop. Escorts are not mindreaders, and if you don't tell them what you want, you shouldn't blame them for not delivering.

 

Thirdly, as far as I'm concerned, Lighthouse/Ad rian/Axebahia has finally managed to screw the pooch with me. To put it bluntly, I think you're extremely fucked up, and I don't even know if years of therapy would help. I think you just look for any and every opportunity to crap on someone. You keep coming back like a bad penny. Any credibility you ever had on some issues here has pretty much evaporated. Give it a rest and seek therapy.