Amtrak train derails killing 6 people; our aging infrastructure keeps killing Americans.

[McLeanspider]

I agree with you regarding the horrible state of US infrastructure. One thing worth mentioning is that railroad rights-of-way are often owned and maintained by private railroad corporations who lease the right-of-way to Amtrak. The owner, not Amtrak, is responsible for track and railbed maintenance. That being said, regardless who did or did not maintain the right-of-way a few hundred people were injured and at least six people died. If this was an airline the outcry would be deafening.

 

Are we becoming a 3rd world country?

[McLeanspider]

http://media.cmgdigital.com/shared/lt/lt_cache/aresize/835x529/img/photos/2015/05/13/0d/99/BrandonBostian.jpg

 

Seven gone....may they rest in peace...200 injured, some still critical. PTC...positive train control

 

I just hope he gets a fair trial.

[+ ArVaGuy]

Are we becoming a 3rd world country?

 

If we are then it's by choice not circumstance. We lack political leaders of any skill or great ability. We have a poorly informed electorate more concerned about the superficial rather than substantive matters. We are becoming a society focused on collective entitlement rather than individual achievement. Poor education, lousy infrastructure, declining income levels, greater disparity of classes, race relations on a backward trajectory, all of these issues have a single cause. The disengagement of the American electorate. "We have met the enemy and they is us!"

[AdamSmith]

Sorry to have prematurely picked up the cudgel and beaten the infrastructure on this one. (Even though also true, if unrelated here.)

 

Was emailing tonight with a friend who is a motorman, sorry 'operator', on the NYC subway system, who was saying, You know every one of us who drives a train of any kind lives in quiet dread of one day nodding off, like the Metro North driver who derailed in 2013.

 

Agree that this guy refusing to cooperate so far, if that news report is accurate, looks bad.

[LouieD]

Driving the train over 100 mph around a curve in a 50 mph zone! Heavens! No wonder the guy is refusing to talk. I hope, for his sake, he has lawyered up. It sounds like he is in deep trouble. Forget about blaming the infrastructure.

[AdamSmith]

Now the reports are that he is and has been cooperating fully.

 

https://gma.yahoo.com/amtrak-engineer-very-distraught-doesnt-remember-crash-attorney-044400565--abc-news-topstories.html

[+ beethoven]

It's now 8:30 on Thursday morning, and I haven't heard a word about the engineer being tested to see if he was impaired by drugs, alcohol, etc. The NTSB said that he will be interviewed tomorrow, after he has "convalesced."

Isn't it standard procedure to test the engineer, driver, or pilot after an accident to see if he was impaired? Why haven't we heard of this here?

[bigvalboy]

It's now 8:30 on Thursday morning, and I haven't heard a word about the engineer being tested to see if he was impaired by drugs, alcohol, etc. The NTSB said that he will be interviewed tomorrow, after he has "convalesced."

Isn't it standard procedure to test the engineer, driver, or pilot after an accident to see if he was impaired? Why haven't we heard of this here?

 

He did give a blood sample to test. And that happened almost immediately. Sadly this is going to be a case of "what if"...Many will not be willing to draw a direct link from lack of funding for Amtrak or lack of funding for infrastructure to this accident, but in my eyes they are related. We may not like what what we see, but it is quite possible that many people are to blame here.

 

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/may/13/amtrak-funding-cuts-congress-train-crash

 

http://news.yahoo.com/amtrak-crash-throws-spotlight-funding-disputes-republicans-back-224318749--business.html;_ylt=A0SO8ocNm1RVftsA43RXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTEzaDJrY3QzBGNvbG8DZ3ExBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDVklQNTYzXzEEc2VjA3Nj

 

Perhaps if some of these people would put money and politics aside, and not worry about the bottom line, then PTC would have been installed and 7 seven more people would have been home right now.

[marylander1940]

If we are then it's by choice not circumstance. We lack political leaders of any skill or great ability. We have a poorly informed electorate more concerned about the superficial rather than substantive matters. We are becoming a society focused on collective entitlement rather than individual achievement. Poor education, lousy infrastructure, declining income levels, greater disparity of classes, race relations on a backward trajectory, all of these issues have a single cause. The disengagement of the American electorate. "We have met the enemy and they is us!"

 

nec vitia nostra nec remedia pati possumus

(Neither our faults nor their remedies can we endure)

 

Are you willing to take a cut on your Medicaid or Social Security benefits?

 

So many self-inflicted wounds: obesity, homophobia, children born out of wedlock to teenage mothers, HIV, racism, the military industrial complex, bases in more than 80 countries, massive incarceration, drug addiction, 1 in 5 women getting raped while serving in the army (500 rape kit paid by all of us...), race to the bottom on taxes, favors to special interests, "Citizens United SCJ decision, factories shipped over seas, bridges to nowhere (and redneck can't even acknowledge they're on their knees giving head to the Federal govt., etc

 

But the worst is the way we manipulate the law through lobbyist: Michael Dell and Jon Bon Jovi own farms and are legally farmers and because of that the pay a very low taxes, etc

 

http://www.giveupblog.com/maps/map9.jpg

 

http://epicinspirationalquotes.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/you-must-be-the-change-you-wish-to-see-in-the-world.jpg

[marylander1940]

A train derailing while traveling twice the posted speed into a curve is not an infrastructure issue. It's a matter of the engineer not performing his job well at all. Poor training could be a factor, but it's just as likely the engineer was distracted, intoxicated, incompetent, or negligent. The fact that the engineer has refused to cooperate with the initial investigation leads me to conclude there is much more to this tradegy than the media is capable of reporting.

 

Why deal in facts, especially when little is known at this point, when you can jump to conclusions and use the event for political gain? Yes, our infrastructure needs an overhaul, but we've been aware of that fact for decades. Throwing money at the issue is not prudent under the circumstances with out a strategy and long term plan.

 

This is another example of why Positive Train Control (PTC) needs to be implemented ASAP. PTC is a system that would automatically turn off an engine if it blew past a stop signal or was traveling too fast before a curve. A law was put in place requiring PTC by the end of 2015. But, that deadline is not going to be met.

 

There is a proposed bill to extend that deadline until 2020. Until PTC is reality, there will be more accidents due to human error / distraction.

 

It was supposed to be implemented in 2008 but I guess there's always money for a stupid war of choice but not for safety.

[AdamSmith]

Perhaps if some of these people had put money and politics aside, and not worried about the bottom line, then PTC would have been installed and 7 seven more people would have been home right now.

 

Trouble is, money and politics are exactly the point. This is part & parcel of a covert--if only just--scheme among Congress's right wing to drive Amtrak and likewise the USPS to a point where privatization looks the only way to save them.

 

One has only to look at the woeful state of UK rail after privatization to see how that worked. Compared with rail service on the Continent.

[bigvalboy]

Trouble is, money and politics are exactly the point. This is part & parcel of a covert--if only just--scheme among Congress's right wing to drive Amtrak and likewise the USPS to a point where privatization looks the only way to save them.

 

One has only to look at the woeful state of UK rail after privatization to see how that worked. Compared with rail service on the Continent.

 

Bingo...

[Frequentflier]

Anyone who thinks our infrastructure is in poor shape and in need of reliable and consistent funding is mistaken. Republicans, as evidenced by their vote on Amtrak funding yesterday, says everything is fine. They feel the same way about highway construction funding. Unfortunately there is a lot of misinformation out there about the condition of our roads and bridge which some believe shows deficiencies.

[+ FreshFluff]

It's now 8:30 on Thursday morning, and I haven't heard a word about the engineer being tested to see if he was impaired by drugs, alcohol, etc. The NTSB said that he will be interviewed tomorrow, after he has "convalesced."

Isn't it standard procedure to test the engineer, driver, or pilot after an accident to see if he was impaired? Why haven't we heard of this here?

From the NYT:

[bostian's lawyer] added that the engineer gave police officers his cellphone number and a sample of his blood.

[McLeanspider]

Sorry to have prematurely picked up the cudgel and beaten the infrastructure on this one. (Even though also true, if unrelated here.)

 

Exactly!

[Guest]

Now the reports are that he is and has been cooperating fully.

 

https://gma.yahoo.com/amtrak-engineer-very-distraught-doesnt-remember-crash-attorney-044400565--abc-news-topstories.html

 

Saying "I see nothing, I know nothing, I remember nothing" can hardly be described as "cooperating fully." He has given no information whatsoever, claiming no knowledge. It certainly looks as if he killed at least 8 people and maimed dozens of others. If he's really responsible as it appears, I hope he spends the rest of his life in the state penitentiary

[Guest]

[bigvalboy]

 

:D

[+ stevenkesslar]

We have a poorly informed electorate more concerned about the superficial rather than substantive matters. We are becoming a society focused on collective entitlement rather than individual achievement. Poor education, lousy infrastructure, declining income levels, greater disparity of classes, race relations on a backward trajectory, all of these issues have a single cause. The disengagement of the American electorate."

 

We are not going to hell in a hand basket. We have big challenges, but I don't think any of them are really rocket science. I think you hit the nail on the head: the biggest part of the problem is political, meaning the electorate. But it's not because we are dumb or disengaged. It's because we can't agree on what to do. So we are stuck. The word that describes it best is gridlock. And in some ways a train derailment is a perfect metaphor. Nature abhors a vacuum, so even gridlock is not really an option forever. If we have a gridlocked national investment strategy, which we do, eventually somethings gonna go off the tracks, like this train just did. Even if it was caused by a daft engineer, we really need to have an investment debate.

 

To dissect what you said:

 

"...greater disparity of classes"

 

Not really. Check out these charts:

 

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/01/25/upshot/shrinking-middle-class.html?abt=0002&abg=0&_r=0

 

The headline is "glass half empty." Meaning declining middle class. But mostly I view that as short-sighted media babble. Like in 2006 when the media was telling us home prices never went down, right before they did. And in 2010 when the media was telling us home ownership no longer made sense, right before "fire sale" home prices shot back up. The real story to me is "glass half full." As the above charts show, the percentage of Americans that are affluent ($100,000 or more) went from 7 % in 1967 to 25 % in 2000. That is a huge achievement. Granted, it's now slumped to 22 %. I'm hoping the 2016 election will be all about that. No shocker that the theme of Obama's SOTU address this year was "middle class economics." Everybody has gotten and read the memo about the 1 % being richer than ever. And whether it's 22 % or 25 % of Americans that are upper income, if in the 1960's we had the money to send men to the moon, don't tell me we don't have the money (in taxes) to fix tracks so trains don't derail.

 

"Poor education and declining income levels"

 

Look at this chart:

 

http://www.statista.com/statistics/184272/educational-attainment-of-college-diploma-or-higher-by-gender/

 

This is Mickey Mouse statistics, but if you look at 1967, when 7 % of Americans were affluent, about 10 % of Americans graduated from college (more men then women). In 2000, when American affluence peaked at 25 %, almost exactly the same percentage - about 25 % - graduated from college (again, more men then women). Now 32 % of Americans are college graduates (for the first time, there is gender parity) and 22 % are affluent. Affluence and education are diverging. But if you look at the NYT charts, even though the percentage of college graduates that are upper income is declining slightly, the percentage of college graduates that are middle class is stable. Not everybody can get a job at Facebook and Google. My guess is we are actually victims of our own success. With more people going to college then ever, it may be that the formula that worked in the 1960's - college diploma = affluence, has now changed to simply being college diploma = middle class +. I can live with that. We are not less educated. We are more educated.

 

The big challenge now is how can you improve on the fact that only 59 % of people who go to college graduate in 6 years. Nobody would argue that in order for a diet to work, 100 % of the people who try it have to succeed. There's not a lot of information available about what happens to people who go to college and don't graduate, but my best guess is that it goes like this: people who go to college and graduate are way better off, and people who go to college and don't graduate are no worse off - just like people who try to diet and fail.

 

That leads directly to one other part of the puzzle, which I view as basically good news:

 

http://www.wsj.com/articles/economys-supply-side-sputters-1424298482

 

http://www.factcheck.org/2015/03/declining-labor-participation-rates/

 

You may not be able to read that first article unless you have a WSJ subscription, but the basic point is that we have a mounting "supply side" labor problem, meaning not enough skilled workers to fill jobs that are actually available or are emerging, which provide higher standards of living. This is a big challenge, but it is also very good news compared to what we all knew to be true just a few years ago, if you believe what a lot of the media was saying: that all the "good jobs" were going to China, and even they weren't that good anymore, really. The second article basically says that the Republicans are right -we have a declining labor participation rate. But it's not due to Obama (or Bush) mismanaging the economy. To quote the CBO study directly: "Thus, demographics account for slightly more than the entire projected decline of 3.0 percentage points in the aggregate [labor] participation rate between 2007 and 2021" [from about 66 % to about 63%]. Meaning the problem is not that Obama fucked up the economy and young people can't find work, or lazy Obamacare recipients don't want to work. The problem is that relatively older and affluent people don't want to or need to work. Guess what? I'm one of them, just like a lot of my clients. To me, it's not really a problem that a lot of people are getting to be older, and have more money in old age than ever before. Most escorts who get hired by such people would likely agree. :-)

 

My perhaps wildly optimistic view is that nature abhors a vacuum, and there will be mounting pressure on politicians to do whatever it takes to build a better educated and better skilled work force. Everybody from left-leaning students who do graduate but are drowning in debt to the right-leaning Chamber of Commerce, who just proved in 2014 that they can effectively take out Tea party wing nuts in primaries and get more moderate Republicans elected, have a self-interest in that, and the electoral power and money to at least try to make it happen. Just about any proposal out there that involves making it easier for students to get grants or low-interest loans to get better educated now so they can get better paying jobs and pay higher taxes later is wildly popular. I'm guessing both Hillary Clinton and Jeb Bush, or whoever gets the nominations, will be hijacking messages from Elizabeth Warren on this one.

 

"...race relations on a backward trajectory"

 

I don't think race relations are on a backward trajectory, either. The black poverty rate was 55 % in 1959, before the Civil Rights Movement kicked into high gear. It was 35 % in 1967. If you think King, LBJ, or the War On Poverty failed, think again. The next "ratchet down" in black poverty happened under Clinton: it was 33 % in 1992 - essentially flat from Nixon to George H.W. Bush - and then dropped to 23 % by 2000. This did not happen by accident. Clinton didn't only lie about Monica. While he was pronouncing "the era of big government is over," he was also cutting deals with Republicans to fund government programs like the CHIP - the Children's Health Insurance Program - that lifted millions out of poverty by helping them avoid bankruptcy when their kids did nothing worse than get sick. We've basically had two Wars on Poverty so far, one under LBJ and one under Clinton. Both were successful, as these numbers show. The poor may always be with us, but there are fewer of them.

 

It is a tragedy of history that black poverty has not declined under Obama. During his watch, it peaked at 27.6 % in 2010 and has now declined to 27.1 % (in 2013, compared to 24.7 % in 2008). Anybody who thinks it's as simple as blaming Obama for the huge mess he inherited ought to go back to school. What we do know is that the number of uninsured Americans is now dropping like a knife - it has dropped by over 10 million since Obamacare started without increasing the deficit.

 

http://www.motherjones.com/files/insured-charts2-630.png

 

The deficit has decreased from $1.4 trillion in the last pre-Obama budget to about $450 billion and change today, unemployment is back to pre-Great Recession levels, minimum wages are going up all over the US, and we are hearing more and more about the fact that we actually have good jobs, we now need more skilled workers to fill them. My guess is that a reduction in black poverty will be viewed as a legacy of Obama by history, and we are now set up for the next President to promote policies that will strengthen middle class people of all races.

 

Even with the race issue that is most polarizing right now - white cops killing black men - my guess is the worst is behind us. Check this site out:

 

http://killedbypolice.net/

 

It matters greatly that we now live in a world where everything can be posted on the internet, including images of an unarmed black man running from a white cop being shot 8 times. It would not surprise me if in 5 years there is a site like this that actually includes images of police shootings taken from police cameras and posted on police websites. More disclosure will protect "good" apples who follow the rules and make it harder for "bad" apples to hide behind ignorance.

 

Going back to the main point I hijacked, that probably depends most one one thing: whether we have an informed electorate concerned about substantive issues. We actually are better educated than ever. Now we just have to act that way.

[+ dutchmuch]

FOX NEWS consultant says engineer's being gay was a 'factor' in crash:

 

http://www.newnownext.com/fox-news-correspondent-calls-amtrak-engineers-sexuality-a-factor-in-deadly-crash/05/2015/?xrs=synd_facebook_logo

[bigvalboy]

FOX NEWS consultant says engineer's being gay was a 'factor' in crash:

 

http://www.newnownext.com/fox-news-correspondent-calls-amtrak-engineers-sexuality-a-factor-in-deadly-crash/05/2015/?xrs=synd_facebook_logo

 

I love how Rios makes that outrageous statement, and then says, "I'm not inferring that the accident happened because he was gay, (of course you are) but I do think that it is an interesting part of the story, and you can bet it will be edited out" ....."I don't know, but it's something that should be discussed, but I doubt you will hear it anywhere else"

 

They are entertaining if nothing else.

[+ stevenkesslar]

 

They are entertaining if nothing else.

 

Entertaining? How could you laugh about something so serious? Haven't you considered the possibility that this is an attempt by a homophobic Republican Congress to kill gay marriage? If you find this funny, you are probably the kind of idiot that likes South Park, like when Cartman parodied Glenn Beck:

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZAuTDVuD7o

 

 

Could this have anything to do with the fact that the Supreme Court is about to make a decision on whether to make gay marriage legal? I don't know. I'm not inferring that this tragedy is part of a vast right wing conspiracy to suppress gay love. I'm just asking questions. It's something that should be discussed.

Is it just a coincidence that we're all being told that the train was going 50 miles an hour over the speed limit? And how many states are there that will be forced to accept gay marriage? Is it just a coincidence that the answer is 50? Probably, but how do we know?

 

The heterosexual media won't even suggest to you that this is part of a well-orchestrated Republican campaign to defund Amtrak to influence the Supreme Court to ban gay weddings. They'll edit that out! All they'll focus on is that the train was going too fast. But is it possible what they're really saying is that gay marriage is going too fast? Probably not. But how do we know?

 

Why do they keep focusing on the fact that the train had a gay engineer and that it derailed when it was going around a curve? Are they trying to say the way gays do things is twisted?

 

And what is the name of the gay engineer on the train they possibly derailed? Bostian! Friends, I'm no genius, I'm just a normal homo like you, who wants to know, but what is the first state that made gay marriage legal? Massachusetts. And what is the capital of Massachusetts? Boston! And where does Bostian live? New York? Isn't that where the Stonewall riot happened? And where does Bostian come from? San Francisco. Isn't that where the LGBT rights movements started? Could these all really be just coincidences? I'm just asking.

 

I'm not saying that Republicans are sending a message that they are against LGBT rights and that if the Supreme Court legalizes gay marriage a great tragedy is about to occur, and marriage will forever go off the tracks, because the country is confused at its core about what marriage really is.

 

But I am saying I have had an epiphany. And I now realize that what I wrote in the post above - that if you look at the facts and figures we are mostly on track - is total bullshit. I love America. And something about our political debate has changed. We've come to a point where facts and research don't matter. This is not the country I grew up in. And I don't know if we can get it back! The Republican Congress wants to stop gay marriage in its tracks, and they will even derail trains and kill people to get their way. They are out to get us!

 

Or are they? I ain't saying. It's a question. I'm just asking questions.

[+ WmClarke]

Brilliant, SK.

[marylander1940]

Exactly!

 

Infrastructure... yes, our rail system sucks and it's very important here in one if not the most money maker area of the country, yet it took month to get any money for Sandy relief.

 

One of the new theories is that the engineer fell asleep or was tired because he was overworked like so many guys who work for Amtrak, having a 2nd person just in case would have save a lot of lives and a avoid the disruption of Amtrak service in this area that has given so much to the country.

[+ purplekow]

That the train engineer does not recall the events should not be surprising to anyone. You have just been in a train that flipped over and your memory is impaired. Rather than assuming cover-up, how about head trauma. The engineer did not recall relating that the windshield was struck by either a rock or a shot, as many many many other trains have been in that area, at least one that evening, yet there is a witness who says that he did relay that information. Part of his coverup? How about letting the courts and investigators do the job they get paid to do. How about demanding that the journalists do the job that they are supposed to do, which is to report the news not speculate on it based on unsubstantiated data which leads to discussions such as he is cooperating, he is not cooperating. The system will work but it is not McDonald's justice. Do yo want it fast or right? You need to give the proper time and effort to allow all of the information to be sorted. Sorry, but conspiracy mongers and conclusion jumpers, ultimately make the short term confusing and in the long term, they are generally wrong but by the time that is clear they are off to muck up another issue.

As for the American Electorate, ask them to name 5 Kardashians and just about everyone can. Ask them to name 5 Seantors. My guess there are a limited number who can do both. Ignorance has a price and we pay for it every time another dollar is stuffed, sub rosa, into the pockets of politicians and their cronies while they use diversion as adeptly as any magician who has ever lived to keep us looking "over there".