Love in the afternoon

[Rick Munroe]

So, I was at Cooper Union this morning with Derek. We were there to watch a certain candidate for President speak (I won't mention his name or this post will get moved ;-) ). Sitting behind me was this hairy, sexy, friendly Italian hunk. His shirt had two buttons undone and the chest hair was thick and black, as was the hair on his thick wrists (his sleeves were rolled up a bit). As we were all waiting for the speaker to arrive, and amidst the CNN reporters and other commotion, I turned around and we started to chat. His mouth was so sexy and our heads were so close and the next thing you know he and I were making out right there in our seats. It was so fucking hot. I should have gotten involved in politics a long time ago. :9

[+ Lucky]

Why do I believe thais about as much as I believe Dean is sincerely sorry for his confederate flag remark?

 

Somehow Rick I don't think people were there to make out for CNN...or maybe...

[Rick Munroe]

>Why do I believe thais about as much as I believe Dean is

>sincerely sorry for his confederate flag remark?

 

Well, the kiss only lasted about 10 seconds.

 

I don't think he has anything to be sorry for. He never condoned the use of the Confederate flag; what he basically said was that those people need to be brought into the political process. Rep. Major Owens (a member of the Congressional Black Caucus) said on CNBC tonight that the insinuation that Dean may be racist or a supporter of the Confederate flag is ludicrous, and that Sharpton is just going after headlines. What Dean said today was:

 

"The issue of the confederate flag has become an issue in this presidential race. Let me make this clear. I believe that we have one flag in this country, the flag of the United States of America. I believe that the flag of the Confederate States of America is a painful symbol and reminder of racial injustice and slavery, which Lincoln denounced from here over 150 years ago. And I do not condone the use of the flag of the Confederate States of America. I do believe that this country needs to engage in a serious discussion about race, and that everyone must participate in that discussion. I started this discussion in a clumsy way.

 

"This discussion will be painful, and I regret the pain that I may have caused either to African-American or southern white voters in the beginning of this discussion. But we need to have this discussion in an honest open way.

 

"In 1968 the Republican Party embarked on a strategy to divide white people from black people in the south just as they were divided when Abraham Lincoln stood at this podium 150 years ago. That is intolerable. Ending that is what this campaign is all about.

 

"I am determined to find a way to bring white Americans and black Americans--as Dr. King said--to the same table of common brotherhood. As I said, we have started in a difficult way, but there is no way to escape the pain of this discussion. To think that racism was banished from the face of this country--even after the success of the civil rights movement is wrong.

 

"Today in America, you have a better chance of being called back for a job interview if you're white with a criminal record than you do if you're black with a clean record--never having been arrested or convicted. Institutional racism exists in this country not because institutions are run by bigots or racists, but because of our unconscious bias towards hiring people just like ourselves. I am determined we will overcome this. I am also determined that we will not leave anyone behind in this discussion--no matter what their color, no matter where they live.

 

"I understand Senator Edward's concern last night that we not have people from the north telling people from the south how to run their states--but we all need to understand that we are in this together and that it will be a difficult and painful discussion, and feelings will be hurt. And what we must do is that people of good will must stay at the table.

 

"If we are ever to vanquish the scourge of racism left over from 400 hundred years of slavery and Jim Crow, only 40 or 50 years ago [did] the Civil Rights Movement begin to see relief from that. We can't think it is over; we must have the dialogue Bill Clinton promised us; we must continue that dialogue, and we must all be at the table. Many of the people in the African American community have supported what I have said in the past few days, because they understand. Some have not, so I say, to those, I deeply regret the pain I have may caused. Many of our white supporters have understood, but to those who do not, I regret the pain that I have caused. I will tell you, there is no easy way to do this. There will be pain as we discuss it; we must face it together--hand-in-hand, as Dr. King and Abraham Lincoln asked us to do."

[+ Lucky]

RE: Love or Sloppy Ten Seconds?

 

Then why is he apologizing? Jay Leno quoted Dean tonight: "I'm really sorry about that remark, and I'm not just whistling Dixie here!"

(Yes, Leno was joking!)

[Rick Munroe]

RE: Love or Sloppy Ten Seconds?

 

>I'm not just

>whistling Dixie here!"

 

Now that's funny. :7

[Candyman]

RE: Love or Sloppy Ten Seconds?

 

Love Dean and he can whistle Dixie. Me I rather whistle the Duke boys!!!

}(

[+ Lucky]

RE: Love or Sloppy Ten Seconds?

 

I'd rather whistle Andrew Keegan.

[Guest Throat Poker]

Fuck, that was a lot of typing.

 

:+

[VaHawk]

Sounds like an attempt at an apology to me, and perhaps very likely to cost him votes in the South, from both whites and blacks. As a white Southern voter, I feel he needs to clarify his position a whole lot better than this to earn my vote.

 

Why? Because his attempt at an explanation, is even more insulting than his original comments. To equate the Confederate flag with racism from a 21st century view is moot at best.

 

But that didn't stop his explanation from equating racism with southerners did it? The northern states don't need to dictate to the southern states? What the heck is that all about? The South didn't like that tactic in the 19th century and they sure as hell won't like it in the 21st century.

 

Given the "boot in face" subjugation and constant monitoring of the South as a result of the Civil Rights movement/laws of the last 40 years, I'd be more than willing to bet that racism runs much more rampant in the states/big cities of those states north of the Mason Dixon line in 2003 than is currently prevalent in the modern South!

 

That said, I really think his fumbling explanation of his statement is going to cost him a lot of votes in the South. He was weak in the South to begin with, but I feel he can now just forget about winning this area of the country. It really is sad, when someone like Dean with so much to offer, opens his mouth and inserts his foot.

 

Of course he doesn't have to win the South to win the election, but just as Al Gore what he would have done to win Tennesee and thus avoided the fiasco in Florida.

[JamesK840]

Racism.

 

I moved all over the place growing up, particularly from rural Florida to rural Michigan during my most formative years.

 

Florida was the most racist place I'd ever been. Not only was Nigger an everyday word amongst my former relatives down there, they were not that different from anybody else, we're not talking KKK or anything. The divide between whites and blacks was stark, even in school a strong us vs. them mentality. You say it's changed in the last 10-15 years, I say the 2000 election proved otherwise. Thousands of blacks illegally removed from the rolls, road blocks in poor neighborhoods, and police in the precincts to make sure those being denied the right to vote didn't cause too much trouble.

 

In Michigan, in was a 180 degree difference. I was in schools with less money but with teachers that really cared, it was inherently friendly instead of hostile, and there was full integration, no note made of differences. I had suspected all along the things I'd picked up in Florida were wrong, it was so great to experience proof. One hell of an example, when I was in college there was a KKK rally (rally's a bit strong, three KKK members on stage, maybe a handful on the supporter side of the fence vs. dozens, maybe a hundred or more on the protester side) at the nearby University. People are very tolerant in Michigan, up until the point you start screaming racist BS through a megaphone at them. Things started to be thrown, the KKKowards that started it ran to safety, but the crowd turned against the few that were on the 'supporter' side of the fence. There was this amazing photo of a black woman shielding a Klan supporter on the ground with her body. I think just about everywhere an unruly crowd can turn ugly, but in my experience there aren't many places where people will stand up to the crowd and tell them they're wrong instead of just going along, and that's just one dramatic example of something I noticed several times there.

 

These are just my experiences, but having lived in both the deep south and just about as far north as you can get I think there is still quite a lot of racism in the south. Those that live there may think it's normal, it is not.

[Rick Munroe]

>He was weak in the South to begin with, but I feel he can now

>just forget about winning this area of the country.

 

According to the latest Zogby poll, "Dean is the leader in the South with 13%, followed by an 8% tie of Edwards, Lieberman, and Sharpton." He has also "expanded his (national) lead ...moving away from a late September tie with retired General Wesley Clark. Dean now receives 15%...and Clark has slipped slightly to 10%."

 

He also just received the endorsement of the Service Employees International Union, the biggest in the AFL-CIO, and the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees is likely to endorse him next Wednesday (bad news for Gephardt).

[dick_nyc]

I will agree that there is a lot of racism in the South still, but the most racist place I have lived surprisingly is Charlestown, MA. I had a contract there for 10 years and as the man in charge of the payroll/personnel/benefits system I had to run a whole series of reports for the feds to prove that we were trying to meet the EEO standards - 6 copies, 4000 pages every month. I asked an African American employee why we had so much trouble hiring blacks and he told me that they were afraid even to come to Charlestown to apply for a job. The racial situation was so bad that the Charlestown high school was not allowed to play the Roxbury school (think Harlem for an equivalent) because of a shooting incident at a high school game where a Roxbury athlete was shot and ended up paralyzed. There was an incident where a Caucasian disk jockey and his son and a black musician friend stopped to get a slice of pizza. The locals literally stoned them and the son lost the sight in his eye. The cops stood there and watched this happen. In South Boston the city bought up some below standard housing stock and renovated it for low income families. They moved a couple of black families in and within a week all the families were burned out. Racism is definitely not restricted to the South. I just wish that the whole racism problem would get solved so that we did not have to deal with it any more. It would be nice to see the whole racism industry go away because it was not needed anymore.