It amazes me how many guys out there want a escort, but hate the idea of paying for 1

[JoeyBryant]

I know this is a sticky topic, but in the past month...I've found myself debating and reasoning (which I know I probably shouldn't waste my time doing...but being that these were real-life interactions, I had to assert my position as an escort) with men who want instant, no-strings sex...but despite having the means to afford escort services, feel as though it's insulting to them, and that they NEVER pay for sex. But yet, they want all the things that go along with having an escort (no-strings and instant gratification).

 

The 3 situations I've encountered recently, was 1 where a friend of mine knew a guy (twice his age) in Kansas City, who invited us out for drinks, and to stay the night at his home. Actually, my friend initiated the scenario, and had already previously had sex with him. However, my friend lead me to believe that that this was a potential client for me because this guy paid a masseur $220 for a massage (often times, clients will have 'scenarios' with 1 guy who is a masseur, and 1 guy who is for free)... Although I wasn't betting on it, I went along with it anyway. Well, later in the night we all ended up in the same bed. But, when I mentioned my expectations for the encounter, the guy was all taken aback and asserted he never pays for sex. So, I ended up sleeping in the guest room, while him and my friend played around. My friend is such a dummy, because the next day, he wants to complain about how it's unfair that some people can afford to live in a such a big house and afford a boat and a truck, while he's struggling. I'm like you dumb bitch, you just slept with someone who is virtually a client for free. He's know your struggling, and all he could offer was drinks, a place to sleep for 1 NIGHT, and brunch...only because it's convenient and not much work on his part. He though it was a victory for having a place to sleep for a night...yet if he was smart, he'd of had his own place to stay for a month, instead of shacking up with me. That could have been a duo overnight session. And I'm sure it wouldn't of killed him to pay for it either. But it might of killed his ego.

 

The other situation appeared last weekend when I had to tell a guy at my gym I'm an escort, because after exchanging numbers...he started talking about fucking me, after I asked about what he's having for dinner. And I don't even know how he assumed I was a bottom anyway...but it pissed me off enough to where I had to tell him since he approached me like I was an prostitute, he must want to pay for one. He claims, he 'doesn't have to'. Well, guess what? With me you do.

 

Then last night at a bar, a guy from Chelsea, NYC approached a different friend of mine that I play with occasionally. This guy went on to discuss how he has a home in Chelsea, Colorado, and some other place. Basically saying he's well within his means to pay. Being my friend and I were together, I had to get the intentions of this guy. He just wanted quick, no-strings fun. But nooooo, he NEVER PAYS. Well then, you will NEVER get with me and my friend. Atleast not while I'm around.

 

Now, I know gay men have been having anonymous, no-strings sex, since the dawn of time probably. I also realize it's not about seeing a guy as a cash cow, or taking advantage of their wealth. But, it makes me feel like sometimes I'm pushing up against a brick wall. I put so much work into advertising, pictures, personality, only to fucking realize that majority of gay men do not support the adult industry much beyond porn and go-go dancers. It's not even about rates, or looks, or any of that. It's all about the fact that these guys want to get something for nothing. And for them, obviously they don't have an issue finding guys to get free services off of, if they feel the need to boast about how they never pay. I don't know who taught people that it's okay to be, or want a prostitute, as long as you're not paying/getting paid for it. Where they learn that from?

[JoeyBryant]

That could have been a duo overnight session. And I'm sure it wouldn't of killed him to pay for it either. But it might of killed his ego. I don't know who taught people that it's okay to be, or want a prostitute, as long as you're not paying/getting paid for it. Where they learn that from?

 

I might be talking to myself here, but think I found the answer to my question, hence the self-quoting here:

 

The superego

 

(German: Über-Ich)[26] reflects the internalization of cultural rules, mainly taught by parents applying their guidance and influence.[8]

 

The super-ego aims for perfection.[24] It forms the organized part of the personality structure, mainly but not entirely unconscious, that includes the individual's ego ideals, spiritual goals, and the psychic agency (commonly called "conscience") that criticizes and prohibits his or her drives, fantasies, feelings, and actions. "The Super-ego can be thought of as a type of conscience that punishes misbehavior with feelings of guilt. For example, for having extra-marital affairs."[29] Taken in this sense, the super-ego is the precedent for the conceptualization of the inner critic as it appears in contemporary therapies such as IFS and Voice Dialogue.[citation needed]

 

The super-ego works in contradiction to the id. The super-ego strives to act in a socially appropriate manner, whereas the id just wants instant self-gratification. The super-ego controls our sense of right and wrong and guilt. It helps us fit into society by getting us to act in socially acceptable ways.[1]

 

The super-ego's demands often oppose the id’s, so the ego sometimes has a hard time in reconciling the two.[24] The super-ego tends to stand in opposition to the desires of the id because of their conflicting objectives, and its aggressiveness towards the ego. The super-ego acts as the conscience, maintaining our sense of morality and proscription from taboos. -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Id,_ego_and_super-ego#Super-ego

[Nvr2Thick]

I think I get it. What you're saying is that your super ego makes you feel guilty about being an escort because prostitution is outside the social norm, and is not consistent with how you were raised. Your id adjusts your reality to compensate, by causing you to distort your expectation of society. As a result you see every gay man who pursues casual sex as someone who really should be looking for an escort. This mind-shift normalizes prostitution by making into a practice that every man already accepts, thus relieving the guilt.

[maninsoma]

I'm a little confused. It's one thing for a guy to contact you via an escort ad and then try to manipulate you into having sex for free. It's quite another for two men to meet in some social situation and you to presume that because the other guy is older or has money or some other reason you form in your mind that the guy should pay you to have sex. There's nothing wrong with someone wanting to have sex with you and not offer you money for it; in fact, most people would probably view that as more reasonable than having an expectation that they have to pay to have sex.

 

As to the situation with you, your friend, and the gentleman who is twice your friend's age: If your friend isn't interested in that guy sexually and is only there because he is really looking for a sugar daddy, then I agree that your friend is approaching the other guy in the wrong way. Maybe the other guy would tell him to take a hike if your friend suggested a more remunerative relationship, or maybe he'd go along with it. With the exception of your friend inviting you along, it actually sounds like a typical "date" situation with the more financially secure person paying for a meal and drinks. A lot of people go on such dates and very few of them would turn those into an expectation that the person with more money should provide money beyond paying for their social activities. But, again, a real "date" assumes there is some level of mutual interest. If your friend really is into this guy just for the money, he should make that explicit and then be willing to move on if the other guy declines to become more generous.

[+ Funguy]

I might be talking to myself here...

 

Guess who again...

[robberbaron4u]

"Paying" for companionship and sexual intimacy is not part and parcel of "American" middle-class culture which is based, largely, on Judeo-Chrisitan concepts of the "righteous" life. Among the American "upper class", which emulates the European model, "paying" is more acceptable; of course, one does not flaunt a provider for convention's sake.

[MiamiLooker]

...I had to assert my position as an escort) with men who want instant, no-strings sex...but despite having the means to afford escort services, feel as though it's insulting to them, and that they NEVER pay for sex.

 

You mean they’re insulted because you’ve targeted them because they’re wealthy gay men? You pretend to be interested in them; gladly accept their paying for your drinks, you stay in their home, they take you to brunch, etc. And then they’re insulted when you tell them you’re only doing all this because you’re an escort? How ungrateful of them.

[instudiocity]

It amazes me how many guys out there want a escort, but hate the idea of paying for 1

Change TWO WORDS to one and you'll understand your conundrum, to wit:

 

It amazes me how many guys out there want (a escort) SEX, but hate the idea of paying for 1.

What's the statistic? Guys think about sex on average every 30 seconds or something? Guys think about paying for sex when? Like Never?

 

Few are those who have computed the price of relationship sex, i.e. husband/wife, costs one whole hella lot more than $200 an hour.

[BaronArtz]

This is nothing personal because I don't know you but let me say the following: if you have a hard time finding guys who will pay you for sex, this is not the right business for you.

 

I live in NYC, which is hyper-competitive for escorts and masseurs. The best guys are always busy though. They don't have a problem getting people to pay for their services. I would encourage you to think about it.

[instudiocity]

This is nothing personal because I don't know you but let me say the following: if you have a hard time finding guys who will pay you for sex, this is not the right business for you.

 

I live in NYC, which is hyper-competitive for escorts and masseurs. The best guys are always busy though. They don't have a problem getting people to pay for their services. I would encourage you to think about it.

LOL! As if the esteemed Mr. Bishop hasn't read that from multiple members of this august forum a couple thousand times.

[BgMstr4u]

What I sense in how you describe these 3 scenarios is a lack of clarity. None of them is a clearcut "contact an escort" situation. Rather, they are ambiguous social situations.

 

Coming at it from the point of view of the almost-but-not-quite client, here's what I see: You're a very attractive, sexually confident guy who is expressing some sort of interest in me. Your interest did not begin because I contacted you in your role as an escort. In fact, I'm not even sure you are an escort. All I know is that here you are in my life in a way that I interpret as you being interested in me.

 

That being the case, I really don't think you should be annoyed at these guys. I think you should be flattered and understand why they are coming on to you. It's because you have the goods! They just don't know what you do for a living.

 

I also think that you should find a way to make your position clear with them that is polite, respectful, and keeps their interest alive. A sort of "Gosh, that's nice! I'd love to, but, you know, since I'm an escort I would be very happy to make this conversation much more explicit on those terms." Or something like. All the time keeping eye contact and smiling and making them want you more.

 

As for situations where the potential client knows your situation and still tries to get you for free, well, again, it's really a compliment. Learn to kill them with kindness -- "You know, that sounds so nice, but I'd rather give you my full professional attention", or something like. Don't burn the bridge. Maybe they are just testing the water. Lots of guys ask for more than they're going to get, on the theory that you won't get what you don't ask for.

 

In any case, none of us can really read minds. Clear communication and a winning attitude will open more doors that it closes.

[wklucas]

how does 1 single person have so much negativity & so much to moan & whine about.....constantly......no wonder that I have never, ever even remotely considered you as a guy to hire.....the whole experience would be soooooo depressing.

I guess some guys find you attractive / appealing.....saying "some" might be a stretch.....maybe a few....or a couple......or 1......somewhere......somehow.....for some (unknown) reason.

sheesh.....one sees a joey bryant posting & ya know it's gonna be a downer....big time !!!!

[MiamiLooker]

LOL! As if the esteemed Mr. Bishop hasn't read that from multiple members of this august forum a couple thousand times.

 

I think it was Regis Philbin that told him that.

[MiamiLooker]

sheesh.....one sees a joey bryant posting & ya know it's gonna be a downer....big time !!!!

 

You don't find them entertaining? At least a little bit?

[bigvalboy]

You don't find them entertaining? At least a little bit?

 

+1....I do, find them entertaining that is.

[+ Funguy]

Isn't there a course that Joey could take on "How to Escort - Successfully! and give the CLIENT what he wants"?

Communication, business models, how to treat the customer, client satisfaction, how to stop whining, etc.

[tom1980]

I live in NYC, which is hyper-competitive for escorts and masseurs. The best guys are always busy though. They don't have a problem getting people to pay for their services. I would encourage you to think about it.

 

Case in point, AJ Irons is fully booked and no longer taking appointments for his upcoming trip to NYC. Lucky are the guys who scheduled time with him before his calendar filled up.

[instudiocity]

Isn't there a course that Joey could take on "How to Escort - Successfully! and give the CLIENT what he wants"?

Communication, business models, how to treat the customer, client satisfaction, how to stop whining, etc.

joey needs no course. He wrote the definitive one. Now he's trying to document his arguments.

[instudiocity]

Case in point, AJ Irons is fully booked and no longer taking appointments for his upcoming trip to NYC. Lucky are the guys who scheduled time with him before his calendar filled up.

AJ Irons? He makes my blood boil.

[McLeanspider]

It does hurt my self esteem having to pay for sex with young men I find desirable but at the same time I'm glad there are young men out there willing to have sex with me for money. When I was young I didn't even look at men older than me, the simply didn't exist for me.

[JoeyBryant]

What I sense in how you describe these 3 scenarios is a lack of clarity. None of them is a clearcut "contact an escort" situation. Rather, they are ambiguous social situations.

 

Coming at it from the point of view of the almost-but-not-quite client, here's what I see: You're a very attractive, sexually confident guy who is expressing some sort of interest in me. Your interest did not begin because I contacted you in your role as an escort. In fact, I'm not even sure you are an escort. All I know is that here you are in my life in a way that I interpret as you being interested in me.

 

That being the case, I really don't think you should be annoyed at these guys. I think you should be flattered and understand why they are coming on to you. It's because you have the goods! They just don't know what you do for a living.

 

I also think that you should find a way to make your position clear with them that is polite, respectful, and keeps their interest alive. A sort of "Gosh, that's nice! I'd love to, but, you know, since I'm an escort I would be very happy to make this conversation much more explicit on those terms." Or something like. All the time keeping eye contact and smiling and making them want you more.

 

As for situations where the potential client knows your situation and still tries to get you for free, well, again, it's really a compliment. Learn to kill them with kindness -- "You know, that sounds so nice, but I'd rather give you my full professional attention", or something like. Don't burn the bridge. Maybe they are just testing the water. Lots of guys ask for more than they're going to get, on the theory that you won't get what you don't ask for.

 

In any case, none of us can really read minds. Clear communication and a winning attitude will open more doors that it closes.

 

I understand the flattery aspect of the 'approach'. But, I've done the free hookup thing for awhile, and **once in awhile** still do, but I'm never really satisfied with the result. I do it knowing it's not going to turn into anything serious, and if I do expect it, disappointment ensues. My main thing is, I'm a relationship kind of guy. If a guy is coming onto me just trying to get the goods and go, what does that say about how they view me?

 

I try to teach my friends this ALL THE TIME, when they come to me with a story about a guy they met off the latest grindr/craigslist/bar fling. They have great sex or whatever, but then they wonder why after a couple of times, they don't want to have anything to do with them. I'm like well, did you not see that all they were wanting was sex? I mean, that's what escorts get paid to do, but yet...they gladly got it for $0 down, no APR. Sure, they probably didn't "MEAN" to pay for it or not pay for it...but the fact of the matter is this: the guy didn't have to buy dinner, buy a movie, use any gas, make breakfast, cook lunch, anything. Basically, not allowing the guy to go out of his way to get what he wants...thus putting a lesser value on it, thus making the person more disposable.

 

I believe men originally have the willpower to become rich and successful, so they can find suitable mates, and reproduce. That's just male biology. Putting into simpler forms, I think many gay men are doing themselves and each other a disservice by allowing these easy, quick, free hookups all the time. These men actually FEEL ENTITLED to be a cheapskate AND get good, free sex. The only difference between that and prostitution is the fact 1 gets paid, the other doesn't. Hence the title of my thread. They want a prostitute, but the idea of paying for one? Another story.

[JoeyBryant]

It's quite another for two men to meet in some social situation and you to presume that because the other guy is older or has money or some other reason you form in your mind that the guy should pay you to have sex. There's nothing wrong with someone wanting to have sex with you and not offer you money for it; in fact, most people would probably view that as more reasonable than having an expectation that they have to pay to have sex.

 

As to the situation with you, your friend, and the gentleman who is twice your friend's age: If your friend isn't interested in that guy sexually and is only there because he is really looking for a sugar daddy, then I agree that your friend is approaching the other guy in the wrong way.

 

OK, I have to mention 2 things about the social situation that I didn't: The 1 with the friend in the bar, that's a guy who I'm in somewhat of a weird 'open friend/relationship with. Simplified; fuck buddies. So, in that case, I got priority over the Chelsea guy. Now, this Chelsea guy was being rather aggressive in trying to get my friend and I in the same bed with him. And as a matter of fact, I broke it out right there for the 1st time to my friend, what I'm about. My friend was perfectly fine with it, but the Chelsea guy got all flustered about it. So clearly, it wasn't going to work out.

 

In the 2nd scenario, the reason why I felt the way I did...is because I was put in a position that I needed to assert myself. In the bed with my friend, and then the client starts getting naked. I am pretty well known in the Kansas City area by clients. So, the thought of this 'massage client' getting a session without paying, just think about it. It just didn't seem fair to me or my other clients. The reason why my friend and I tend to bump heads, is because he lost his father while he was a teenager, and is looking for him in between the legs of these older, well-off men. But, I tell him that these guys DON'T want to take care of him, and instead of being a free prostitute, he needs to look for men closer to his age. Otherwise, continue down the path of being used and abused by men who should probably be paying prostitutes to begin with.

[JoeyBryant]

It does hurt my self esteem having to pay for sex with young men I find desirable but at the same time I'm glad there are young men out there willing to have sex with me for money. When I was young I didn't even look at men older than me, the simply didn't exist for me.

 

You my friend, are a class act. Honestly though, I wouldn't let it hurt your self-esteem. Guess what? I've paid before. I gave my X money for X,Y,Z because he needed it, but of course he let me do X,Y,Z as well before I handed it to him. My X was also an escort, and I wasn't. If I had lots of disposable income, I'd still be paying guys...while getting paid myself. Call it, revolving credit.

 

The issue with these, "I don't pay" guys, is they see it as an insult. As in, they dont 'have to pay'. Nobody HAS to pay. One guy told me, "I'm not ugly or old enough to have to pay". I'm like dude...it's not even about that. I've had more attractive guys, who were younger pay. But, Americans tend to have this idea that only the repulsive pay...and that couldn't be further from the truth.

 

I'm glad there's guys like the posters on daddys who understand, it's all about getting what you want, when you want.

 

This is nothing personal because I don't know you but let me say the following: if you have a hard time finding guys who will pay you for sex, this is not the right business for you.

 

I live in NYC, which is hyper-competitive for escorts and masseurs. The best guys are always busy though. They don't have a problem getting people to pay for their services. I would encourage you to think about it.

 

Wait. Stop. Let's backtrack. Who said I had any problem getting guys to pay for my services? All I did was mention that despite all the efforts that I and the advertising companies make, we in America still have a large segment that don't buy because they feel entitled to get it for free. Accept that. I'm accepting it. It is what it is. I am also not interested in how many clients an escort in NYC sees.

 

You also don't know anything beyond what people tell you. I've met quite a few clients from NYC, and many have been pleasant, some can be like spawns of the devil. Being there's SO MANY escorts, cities like that also tend to breed a system of abuse. Feeling as they have precedence over one because they are paying. That's why I tend to find better client experiences in even the smallest towns of Oklahoma, than the biggest neighborhoods of NYC, LA and Miami. 1 of my worst clients in Denver, happened to be some jerk from NYC. Some treat even the best escorts like gum on their shoe. Recall that 1 thread, about the guy who went to NYC, and wanted to hire 2 escorts, but couldn't have enough money to pull from the ATM, and the session ended up cancelled? You don't know what those guys experience, dealing with New York clients. I'm also not paying $2,000 a month for rent, so really I don't need to be that busy anyway. So your argument is null. Don't come to me with the 'well escort so and so'...it never works with me. If I listen to everytime a person told me so and so escort does this and that...I'd believe I should be making $100,000 a year too.

 

Isn't there a course that Joey could take on "How to Escort - Successfully! and give the CLIENT what he wants"?

Communication, business models, how to treat the customer, client satisfaction, how to stop whining, etc.

 

No, but there should be a course specifically for you titled: HOW TO NOT GET BUTT-HURT, WHEN THE TRUTH HURTS. I'll be your tutor.

[JoeyBryant]

"Paying" for companionship and sexual intimacy is not part and parcel of "American" middle-class culture which is based, largely, on Judeo-Chrisitan concepts of the "righteous" life. Among the American "upper class", which emulates the European model, "paying" is more acceptable; of course, one does not flaunt a provider for convention's sake.

 

Makes perfect sense. But where does middle class, Christian, American culture say it's ok to do it for free, but not for pay? Or that it's okay to text a guy, "want to sit on my face?", or "send me cock pic", or "wanna come back to my place and fuck me", after knowing them only 5 minutes at a gym...and then say, "oh no...I'm not paying, I don't have to pay". Sounds like someone's requesting escort services to me. But, unfortunately it's become so commonplace, people consider it normal to approach a normal civilian like a prostitute off the street. And yet, they believe we should be 'flattered' by it. Ain't that some shit?

[instudiocity]

It does hurt my self esteem having to pay for sex with young men I find desirable but at the same time I'm glad there are young men out there willing to have sex with me for money. When I was young I didn't even look at men older than me, the simply didn't exist for me.

Does your self-esteem suffer pain when you pay for a car? Buy a house? Enjoy an evening out? Arrange a visit with a doctor, lawyer, plumber or electrician? How about when you pay your electric bill?