What to do to Build Energy and to increase TESTOSTERONE?

[Newly]

Not meaning to be disrespectful, but this thread reminds me of how a French friend of mine used to call America the land of extremes, we never tend to take a middle ground. If loosing weight is good why we should all get as skinny as possible, if exercise is good we should all be marathon runners, if too high a fat level is bad we should all try to have insanely low fat levels, and so forth even though extremes in either direction tend to be harmful. Lots of other variables, but it's funny that even though we spend more per capita than any other country on health care we are about the only developed country where average life span is decreasing. Of course, taking things to the extreme and not finding a middle ground is a characteristic of youth, one that tends to go away as one matures.

[+ Gar1eth]

I was on testosterone therapy for over a year. My original level was at the low end of the normal range. But I had told my physician my libido was low. Basically I wasn't getting aroused/not feeling horny. Before I started testosterone, I was found to be mildly hypothyroid. I started on thyroid hormone replacement 1st because I wasn't thrilled with injecting myself. My libido/erections improvised slightly with the thyroid therapy. But I still didn't feel the same as I had felt even 18 months before. So I started testosterone injections every two weeks. I don't really think they did anything for me. I didn't experience any mood elevations, depression, or rages. And while at times my libido was fine- at other times -blah. And the studies that show it doesn't do a lot for erectile problems were right. I could never tell if it did anything for that or not. Finally I'm not into exercise. It definitely didn't do anything for my energy levels or make me want to work out or be more active. I don't think I gained any weight on it. But I definitely didn't lose any due to increased activity- there was none.

 

So please don't any of you think it is a miracle. It may work in some people- but for me, I think the main thing it did was give me a sore thigh every two weeks.

 

Gman

[Newly]

OK I'll try to keep this short. First of all a forum is supposed to be a place where people with different opinions can respectfully share them, not try to browbeat everyone into thinking they have the only answer. I will also come clean as to why this is a big topic for me. Some years back a couple I knew had a great son, but he was a bit "hyper" and "moody". You know, the type of person who could have been a great artist or musician. But nope, they kept taking him to doctors to "cure" him until he was placed on anti-depressants so that he would be "better". He committed suicide. Yes, maybe he would have anyway but his parents will never know. And the pharmaceuticals and Doctors who were making money off of this were giving this stuff out like candy - without thinking it all out. And no Lee, I don't think you should get fat and lazy but guess what - I'm proud of my age, I'm worse in some ways but better in others and society needs all groups young, middle aged and old to be balanced. The potential concern with changing testosterone levels is that it may turn out that it changes who we are. I don't want to act like a 20 year old and brag about how many people I've fucked, I'd rather cuddle and develop a few closer relationships, and have the wisdom and life experiences I've had. But to each his/her own, heck, maybe "Better Living Through Chemistry" is the way to go. But please don't take things to extremes. Telling people to consider what they are doing before taking a drug is hardly the same as telling people that they should be fat and lazy. Mature people don't tend to see everything in black or white.

[unsub2O17]

Ever play "contradictory proverbs"? In this case, "Fools rush in where angels fear to tread" versus "Nothing ventured, nothing gained" seems to be appropriate.

 

On another note, I am almost 68, but I wear a boys size 16. It's hard to "dress my age".

[instudiocity]

You are right on the money with your comments, save one. Testosterone cypionate, given twice and week (0.5cc twice a week intramuscularly) does not have major peaks and valleys, for most people.

I was waiting for your comments on possible elevations of estradiol and DHT as unwanted results of testosterone therapy. Your audience should be aware of these.

That's one helluvalotta testosterone for a 60 year old man traveler1954... unless you're taking the 1/2 dose, 100mg testosterone cypionate, you're gunning for 'roid rage levels of testosterone... You're hitting up to 400 mg/week!

 

My endocrinologist suggests full replacement injection therapy at 100mg per week and for me, at 56, he's set 80 mg/week.

[jackhammer91406]

Doctors orders...

 

When I was a bit younger I went through a period where my T levels were quite low. I was easily fatigued, had little or no drive and according to my GP went into a severe clinical depression. In addition to immediate counseling,he prescribe testosterone. It was available in a number of ways: sots or pills or cream. I chose the shots and instead of self administered, I went into the Doctors office each time and the nurse gave me the shot. There was no co-pay because it was administered by the nurse, and there was no charge for the shot since it was covered by insurance. There was and almost immediate positive effect from the treatment and I stayed on it for seven or eight years until I got Leukemia and then the shots were stopped. I am not a doctor, but I do not believe the shots and the Leukemia are connected. Just random.

[+ Funguy]

Wow…lots of stuff here now…..

 

Traveler: you are right about the lack of highs or lows with injections twice a week. But who wants injections twice a week. And, for that matter, why is everyone hung ho for the injectable. I have been using 20% in lipocream for 3 years, apply in am and pm, simply rub it on the skin. I was really low and my levels shot up over a 4 week period to well into high optimum range. The only needles I go for are with hGH and they are tiny, tiny and short!

 

The use of T can be inappropriate and used by some only to "increase their sex drive" but in the way I had hoped to present it, it is more of a health issue and I listed many of the +'s in the start of the thread. We're not looking for the Peter Pan Syndrome. Women have menopause when their hormones are no longer produced; men also have what's known as Andropause. Our T, among other things begins to wane, and we feel shitty. Shouldn't we (men, gay and straight) have the option of replacement therapy for better health in general? Again, we are speaking about overall health benefits and increased libido just happens to be one of them. For your information, women also need T so, Fresh, Tyro, whomever, what are you doing about it?

 

Samai - your point about MD's in it for the money - yeah there are those. No one on T therapy needs to go to the MD's office for injections. The rest of your comments were most well-addressed by Lee.

 

Last, Traveler, you mentioned Estradiol and DHT. Yes, a few men will get elevated levels of DHT. After all, it is a breakdown product of T, and it happens to be 5 times more powerful. So, some is good. However, if we are monitoring blood levels as we are supposed to responsibly do, we can block that pathway and your hair won't fall out! Also, Estradiol is another breakdown product which we watch for and, again, if we are following the patient and not giving this out willy nilly, you won't develop gynecomastia (the dreaded enlarged breasts!)

 

Frankly, as a 65 year old, I want every avenue to good health explored. I am healthy, thankfully, and take no other prescription medications other than the DHEA, T, Thyroid, hGH, and Vit D. I attribute my healthiness, at least in part, to the regimen I follow. I do it responsibly and I treat my patients responsibly and ethically as well. That's what we should have in the medical field.

 

Now you guys have the 411….it's up to all of you to take advantage or not.

 

I'm still the

Funguy

[+ FreshFluff]

I see no reason to avoid taking advantage of treatments that make us feel healthier and look more youthful as long as the costs and risks are in line with the benefits. Just because people aged at a certain pace a generation ago doesn't mean we need to do the same.

[Samai139]

Samai -- I would just wonder why? Don't get me wrong, I trust my doctor's advice and recommendations, but there are certainly things that we discuss and consider based upon what I bring to him that he might not have brought up. For me, the passive model of waiting for "the great man" to make decisions about what tests and info I need in all cases is outdated. Shouldn't you be partners with him in your health instead of just relying on him, and hoping he didn't overlook something? When it is simply a blood draw at your annual physical and nothing more. One more tube of blood? Most docs I know don't test for Vitamin D deficiency even though studies have shown that a significant portion of the public is deficient.

 

I'm certainly not criticizing. Just wondering why?

 

Leigh--I respect your concern/curiosity and appreciate your response. Let me try to answer as best I can: I feel I have no reason to ask for my T levels to be checked because I have lots of energy to complete my daily tasks, I volunteer on a regular basis, belong to a local fitness center where I get exercise during the winter months, walk and bike regularly during the spring, summer and fall. I suppose to younger men my sex life may be less than stellar, but it is not because of a absent libido--still have desires, and can perform adequately. Am I the same as I was when I was 40? Of course not and to be honest, I don't want to be.

Do you think there is a sound reason why I should ask for a testerone level test? And yes, I agree with you that in many cases if you do not advocate for yourself in medical concerns, the providers will not initiate questions. During my annual physical exam, my provider does ask questions about many things, but I make sure I bring a list of things I want to discuss as well---learnt that lesson 20 years ago when a different provider assured me that a circular patch on the side of my right hand was "nothing to worry" about. Two years later, when I requested a referral to a dermatologist, I found that I had basal cell cancer and had to have surgery. Perhaps if I had been more adamant in the first instance, I might have less medical intervention.

[+ Funguy]

That's what "freedom of choice" and "informed consent" is all about.

[monopolizer]

Thanks funguy for all of the information you've contributed and to everyone else for sharing their knowledge and experiences on this topic. I was wondering if there were any risks to supplementing HGH and DHEA; I recall hearing something about HGH in the past but don't remember the details.

 

Tests have shown that my free-T is at the lower range of normal for my age; I recall just 10 years ago my internist commenting that it was quite high for my age.... I want all the benefits of tostesterone supplementation, especially energy, clearer thinking, and libido, but am a little afraid of some of the risks. I suppose as long as everything can be monitored it might be worth a try.

[+ Funguy]

Definitely worth the try as long as done responsibly.

 

No dangers in DHEA - besides all the good things (bone density, mood improvement, improvement in immunity, counters stress, lowers cortisol) you can push it way up and it also acts as a precursor to testosterone. Excess may give some acne.

 

HGH is safe when used as an adjunct to all the rest. I recommend beginning with T and DHEA, have your Thyroid tweaked to OPTIMUM, and THEN add hGH if you want the final piece. Bear in mind: injectable only (tiny needles) and expensive.

[traveler1954]

No, 100 mg twice a week=200mg/week ( 100 on Thursday and 100 on Monday) is just fine.

Blood work confirms Free T is in normal range) Everything must be verified by blood work and clinical findings.

[instudiocity]

That's a lot of T!

No, 100 mg twice a week=200mg/week ( 100 on Thursday and 100 on Monday) is just fine.

Blood work confirms Free T is in normal range) Everything must be verified by blood work and clinical findings.

[+ Funguy]

If his T is where it should be and verified then the dose is ok. But again, why 2x weekly injections?

[traveler1954]

Depot injections are easy to do. Pinch the skin on the lateral thigh and thrust the needle through the pinch and then advance the needle into the muscle ( muscle wont feel the needle)

I am a patient of Cenegenics which is the largest age management medical group. They are all around the country, have 16 years experience and 10s of thousands of patients. They practice evidence based medicine and are affiliated with a medical school. I follow their recommendations. They are THE specialists in the field.

Its not about libido or vanity but about not winding up frail, walking bent over with a walker, suffering osteoporotic fractures loss of muscle.

Do you see elderly guys bounding out of chairs or cars? They move slowly because they are still or have no muscle strength . Have you seen older guys whose chin is at the level of his breastbone? His neck bones collapsed. When the spine collapses it is not painless and it is disabling. Why are people shuffling around with walkers or in bed in nursing homes? Proper diet, exercise, lifestyle and optimizing your hormones will greatly reduce loss of muscle strength, bone density, cancer, dementia, cardiovascular disease, etc.. What else do you need?? This will be standard medicine in the coming years.

[+ Funguy]

"Its not about libido or vanity but about not winding up frail, walking bent over with a walker, suffering osteoporotic fractures loss of muscle.

Do you see elderly guys bounding out of chairs or cars? They move slowly because they are still or have no muscle strength . Have you seen older guys whose chin is at the level of his breastbone? His neck bones collapsed. When the spine collapses it is not painless and it is disabling. Why are people shuffling around with walkers or in bed in nursing homes? Proper diet, exercise, lifestyle and optimizing your hormones will greatly reduce loss of muscle strength, bone density, cancer, dementia, cardiovascular disease, etc.. What else do you need?? This will be standard medicine in the coming years."

 

Thanks, Traveler, now you get it!

[Diverdan]

Thanks for these additional posts... great information and worth sharing. Thanks again for all the good stuff.

[+ Axiom2001]

Thanks for these additional posts... great information and worth sharing. Thanks again for all the good stuff.

 

I DITTO what Diverdan wrote here! Many thanks, all! I will be seeing my physician again, soon!!

[+ Axiom2001]

Thanks for these additional posts... great information and worth sharing. Thanks again for all the good stuff.

 

It's the 23rd of July 2014, and I echo the quoted message. Tremendous thanks to all of the contributors to the post. ...quite helpful indeed.

 

Yesterday I picked up my medication to help build my low testosterone. ...know that I need it per discussion with physican as well as the way my limp dick feels and from the look of my bulging tits [...like the high sensitivity of the nips but abhor the size]. My doctor and I discussed this two days ago. Hope this helps for I am horny as hell yet am having problems otherwise in sensitivity of the penis! My moods and energy levels seem fine though!

[gp0560]

Here's a slightly different slant on this topic. I have a well-respected MD as my PCP. When I inquired about T levels, he looked at my blood tests, thought my T was on the low end and prescribed Androgel (a gel, but not the 1.62% pump kind). But I still didn't feel like I thought I should, so I continued to pester him until he referred me to a well-respected endocrinologist. This MD listened to my concerns, looked at my T levels, and promptly prescribed Androgel 1.62%. At this point, had improvement in libido.

 

Back to my PCP with concerns about erections and ejaculation. He didn't find any reason not to prescribe Cialis, first the "as needed" kind, then the daily kind. At this point, had improvement in erections.

 

Scene shift to my "shrink-let," meaning the PA who prescribes my anti-depressants. I wanted to reduce the number of drugs I was taking, so he advised me try going off Cymbalta.

 

Success! Androgel so that I want to cum, Cialis so that I can cum, and no Cymbalta so that I do cum. Holy shit, do I feel great again!

 

Why do I tell you all this? I think the morals of my story are: Don't go to the doc down the street; see reputable professionals with good credentials. Get your PCP to refer you to appropriate specialists. If you take anti-depressants, consider changing or dropping them. Keep your PCP involved. Give every professional a list of all the drugs you are taking. Finally and I hope obviously, the answers to these problems are not the same for everyone, but if you continue to work with good people, you should be able to find the right recipe for you.

 

Funguy, I'd be interested in getting your thoughts on my story.

 

PS. When I told my PCP that dropping the Cymbalta worked, I got the "well, doh" look. Hehehe!

[+ Funguy]

Here's a slightly different slant on this topic. I have a well-respected MD as my PCP. When I inquired about T levels, he looked at my blood tests, thought my T was on the low end and prescribed Androgel (a gel, but not the 1.62% pump kind). But I still didn't feel like I thought I should, so I continued to pester him until he referred me to a well-respected endocrinologist. This MD listened to my concerns, looked at my T levels, and promptly prescribed Androgel 1.62%. At this point, had improvement in libido.

 

Back to my PCP with concerns about erections and ejaculation. He didn't find any reason not to prescribe Cialis, first the "as needed" kind, then the daily kind. At this point, had improvement in erections.

 

Scene shift to my "shrink-let," meaning the PA who prescribes my anti-depressants. I wanted to reduce the number of drugs I was taking, so he advised me try going off Cymbalta.

 

Success! Androgel so that I want to cum, Cialis so that I can cum, and no Cymbalta so that I do cum. Holy shit, do I feel great again!

 

Why do I tell you all this? I think the morals of my story are: Don't go to the doc down the street; see reputable professionals with good credentials. Get your PCP to refer you to appropriate specialists. If you take anti-depressants, consider changing or dropping them. Keep your PCP involved. Give every professional a list of all the drugs you are taking. Finally and I hope obviously, the answers to these problems are not the same for everyone, but if you continue to work with good people, you should be able to find the right recipe for you.

 

Funguy, I'd be interested in getting your thoughts on my story.

 

PS. When I told my PCP that dropping the Cymbalta worked, I got the "well, doh" look. Hehehe!

 

Your story is the most common story we hear! You don't say what your age is but most guys over the age of 50 start having these issues. Basically, anyone, male or female begins to decrease production by 10-15% per decade starting in the 20's. By "our" age we are not producing g what we need.

 

As to the androgen 1.62% - well, your FREE testosterone needs to be followed a couple of times to make sure it is getting up to the range that is

OPTIMUM (as opposed to normal) - we like over 200. Most guys will seem to have an improvement initially and then down the road the effect tapers off because the level just doesn't reach optimum with 1.62% We use, hold on to your pants, a 20% cream, made at compounding pharmacy, 2 times per day (am and pm) and the level remains great, year after year!

 

As you discovered, Testosterone replacement does not cure erectile dysfunction (ED) which is why you are using the Cialis. As long as you do not have any contraindications, that's great. The only question is whether or not to use the "as needed" or the daily and that would be a personal preference based on the level of sexual activity or the spontaneity of the sexual activity.

 

Finally, the antidepressants - Cymbalta - well, as you said, "doh" (sic) DUH!!! Interestingly, some men who are (actually) depressed and need antidepressants, need much higher doses of Testosterone replacement and even then the replacement might not have the desired effect. Those guys WILL do better with an antidepressant. If not needed - don't take!

 

Last, have your FREE testosterone measured after you have been on the Androgel 1.62% for over a month. IF the level needs to come up, ask your Endocrinologist (seems to be more informed than your regular MD) about other options, e.g. stronger cream, injectable (self-injected, 1x per week or every 2 weeks) or even pellets. I don't like the pellets because they are active for 3 month and if for any reason you have to change the dosage, etc. it's a pain to have them removed. injectible drawback is that the breakdown products are different that the topical and you need to watch the estrogenic effects, as well as your hair - you don't want that bald spot to get bigger, LOL.

 

Hope this helped!

 

Ever the,

Funguy