Anti-Gay Bakery Closes

[bcohen7719]

fyi

 

BC

 

[video=youtube;r7VrRpN0UdA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7VrRpN0UdA

[seeker630]

Why start a second thread on this a day after your first?

[+ deej]

I'll say it: seems like just desserts.

[instudiocity]

At some point, I hope someone decides to "turn the other cheek."

 

Isn't it ironic that the Bakery's intolerance for gay marriage as expressed in their refusing to supply a wedding cake to a gay couple led to the bakery's closing their storefront? All due to the intolerance expressed by gay people towards the bakery owner's personally held beliefs?

 

As we scream about the intolerance of others, we fail to recognize our intolerance of other people's opinions. As we celebrate DIVERSITY with our rainbows there is yet no color for anyone who's opinion differs from ours. These protestors sought to destroy the livelihoods of those who expressed a contrary opinion! We, who have experienced hate speech, even violence, have become haters, too.

 

So what if a couple has to choose a different bakery? The gay couple had a change of plans. But the bakery owners who stood on their principles are out-of-business.

 

So one couple's inconvenience became another couple's bankruptcy? Are we really that heartless? We pronounce ourselves as the most TOLERANT. I'm ashamed of every gay and straight person connected to this foul travesty.

[+ Gar1eth]

At some point, I hope someone decides to "turn the other cheek."

 

Isn't it ironic that the Bakery's intolerance for gay marriage as expressed in their refusing to supply a wedding cake to a gay couple led to the bakery's closing their storefront? All due to the intolerance expressed by gay people towards the bakery owner's personally held beliefs?

 

As we scream about the intolerance of others, we fail to recognize our intolerance of other people's opinions. As we celebrate DIVERSITY with our rainbows there is yet no color for anyone who's opinion differs from ours. These protestors sought to destroy the livelihoods of those who expressed a contrary opinion! We, who have experienced hate speech, even violence, have become haters, too.

 

So what if a couple has to choose a different bakery? The gay couple had a change of plans. But the bakery owners who stood on their principles are out-of-business.

 

So one couple's inconvenience became another couple's bankruptcy? Are we really that heartless? We pronounce ourselves as the most TOLERANT. I'm ashamed of every gay and straight person connected to this foul travesty.

 

I'm sorry I-City, I cannot disagree with you more strongly. In fact I have to hope that you don't really mean what you wrote but were just trying to provoke a strong response. Well here it is. For a business in public service, their actions were reprehensible. The baker's viewpoint was one of unrestrained bigotry. If the couple had been biracial, and the baker had said, 'I'm sorry- my religion doesn't believe in the mixing of the races- would that have been ok? If this had been a restaurant and some Mexican Americans, Asians, Blacks or any other minority had come to be served, and they had replied 'We have a White's only policy' would that have been ok?

 

 

If the couple had been Jewish, and the baker replied, ' I cant serve you. You killed Our Lord'. Would that be ok in your eyes? How much do you want to bet that the baker routinely breaks the Sabbath, has made cakes for divorces, or naughty bachelors' parties? Oregon is lucky enough to have a non discrimination statute regarding public services and that statute trumps the baker's personal beliefs. If he wants to work in Oregon, he needs to follow the law.

 

I want to apologize to the Moderators. After I wrote all this, I started wondering if this reply could be considered political in nature. If it is, I wonder if the entire thread ought to be moved to the Politics Section of the Forum.

 

Gman

[Newly]

You're back! Great to see you back, I've missed your posts! Plus I'm not very good at saying Tallywhacker.

[bcohen7719]

At some point, I hope someone decides to "turn the other cheek."

 

Isn't it ironic that the Bakery's intolerance for gay marriage as expressed in their refusing to supply a wedding cake to a gay couple led to the bakery's closing their storefront? All due to the intolerance expressed by gay people towards the bakery owner's personally held beliefs?

 

As we scream about the intolerance of others, we fail to recognize our intolerance of other people's opinions. As we celebrate DIVERSITY with our rainbows there is yet no color for anyone who's opinion differs from ours. These protestors sought to destroy the livelihoods of those who expressed a contrary opinion! We, who have experienced hate speech, even violence, have become haters, too.

 

So what if a couple has to choose a different bakery? The gay couple had a change of plans. But the bakery owners who stood on their principles are out-of-business.

 

So one couple's inconvenience became another couple's bankruptcy? Are we really that heartless? We pronounce ourselves as the most TOLERANT. I'm ashamed of every gay and straight person connected to this foul travesty.

 

Turn the other cheek? There are many famous voices, far more eloquent than my own, relating to the role of intolerance

in the face of intolerance. Harvey Fierstein delved into this recently....

 

BC

 

[video=youtube;-2sC7ny7jUs]

[bcohen7719]

Here's another clip of fiery Harvey Fierstein in reaction to those who oppress the gay community....

 

BC

 

http://video.msnbc.msn.com/all-in-/52759660#52759660

[maninsoma]

Exactly. I'm so tired of this "You're intolerant of my point of view" argument when it comes to bigotry. It's as wrong when it comes to sexual orientation as it is with respect to gender, race/ethnicity, etc, etc.

 

No one told these bakers they had to celebrate the same sex wedding. They didn't have to specifically market to that community. They didn't have to attend the wedding. All they had to do was bake a cake like they would for any other customer.

 

If a religious zealot is so small minded that he cannot even tolerate doing business with someone with a different point of view, then he should run a business that only caters to that customers who share his point of view. Maybe these people should open a religious book store instead of a bakery.

 

I'm sorry I-City, I cannot disagree with you more strongly. In fact I have to hope that you don't really mean what you wrote but were just trying to provoke a strong response. Well here it is. For a business in public service, their actions were reprehensible. The baker's viewpoint was one of unrestrained bigotry. If the couple had been biracial, and the baker had said, 'I'm sorry- my religion doesn't believe in the mixing of the races- would that have been ok? If this had been a restaurant and some Mexican Americans, Asians, Blacks or any other minority had come to be served, and they had replied 'We have a White's only policy' would that have been ok?

 

 

If the couple had been Jewish, and the baker replied, ' I cant serve you. You killed Our Lord'. Would that be ok in your eyes? How much do you want to bet that the baker routinely breaks the Sabbath, has made cakes for divorces, or naughty bachelors' parties? Oregon is lucky enough to have a non discrimination statute regarding public services and that statute trumps the baker's personal beliefs. If he wants to work in Oregon, he needs to follow the law.

 

I want to apologize to the Moderators. After I wrote all this, I started wondering if this reply could be considered political in nature. If it is, I wonder if the entire thread ought to be moved to the Politics Section of the Forum.

 

Gman

[bigvalboy]

Quickly I would like to say, welcome back Gman, however brief we have you for, and thank you BC for the links posted and then the additional links that came after each video. It made for a most thoughtful and sober morning and a reminder of the world we live in. Perhaps it is the time for me to go out, and to give more of myself, in an effort to help affect change....

[Juan Vancouver]

At some point, I hope someone decides to "turn the other cheek."

 

Isn't it ironic that the Bakery's intolerance for gay marriage as expressed in their refusing to supply a wedding cake to a gay couple led to the bakery's closing their storefront? All due to the intolerance expressed by gay people towards the bakery owner's personally held beliefs?

 

As we scream about the intolerance of others, we fail to recognize our intolerance of other people's opinions. As we celebrate DIVERSITY with our rainbows there is yet no color for anyone who's opinion differs from ours. These protestors sought to destroy the livelihoods of those who expressed a contrary opinion! We, who have experienced hate speech, even violence, have become haters, too.

 

So what if a couple has to choose a different bakery? The gay couple had a change of plans. But the bakery owners who stood on their principles are out-of-business.

 

So one couple's inconvenience became another couple's bankruptcy? Are we really that heartless? We pronounce ourselves as the most TOLERANT. I'm ashamed of every gay and straight person connected to this foul travesty.

 

Turning the other cheek allowed trainloads of jews, gays and gipsies to be tortured and killed. Turning the other cheek allowed lynchings of countless black men and women in the south. Turning the other cheek empowered every single heinous act of mass genocide all over the world. Turning the other cheek is allowing an ignorant government to pass laws that are directly written to suppress, victimize and disempower very specific sectors of the population with these new and law sanctioned russian anti gay pogroms.

 

There is another way of saying "turning the other cheek" or "turning a blind eye"; it's called endorsing.

 

Spreading hatred and teaching your children and the people around you to hate is not being "diverse", it's just being an anti-social, ignorant member of a sociopathic culture. This is specially bad when it happens in a place where by law you are asked by the majority not to do so.

 

If you want to believe that God is a blue elephant or lives in a cornflower or comes from the stars, by all means, be my guest. We should all revel at your sacred right to be different and be unique.

 

If your idea of being diverse is actively pushing others to behave the way you believe to be the only right way, then you have all the wars, all the genocide, all the hatred in the world. This should not be tolerated by those who are intelligent.

 

 

At some point, I hope someone decides to embrace the right amount of outrage and collectively we put a stop on such hate spreading behaviour.

[Guest Starbuck]

Turning the other cheek allowed trainloads of jews, gays and gipsies to be tortured and killed. Turning the other cheek allowed lynchings of countless black men and women in the south. Turning the other cheek empowered every single heinous act of mass genocide all over the world. Turning the other cheek is allowing an ignorant government to pass laws that are directly written to suppress, victimize and disempower...

 

+1 is not enough here. Juan, thank you for historical perspective expressed with eloquence.

[bigvalboy]

+1 is not enough here. Juan, thank you for historical perspective expressed with eloquence.

 

Yes +2...It was an articulate and poignant historical overview. Thank you Juan.

[Newly]

Especially during this time of the year this means so much. Thank you from the bottom of my heart. +1000

[leigh.bess.toad]

To me it is simple: they were breaking the law. The public accommodations laws in Oregon were quite clear and there is little doubt that they were in violation. We cannot have businesses (or anyone else for that matter) deciding what laws they will or won't follow with impunity for whatever reason. There were religious reasons given for refusing to serve blacks in the south in the 50s, just as there were here. But now there are laws, at least there are in some places, and this baker was in violation. If this had occurred in some place where there was no such law, that would be a different matter. But it did occur in a state where sexual orientation is covered by public accommodation laws. As such, it was right that the case be brought to the state for review. No sympathy for him whatsoever.

[+ Chris Eisenhower]

To me it is simple: they were breaking the law. The public accommodations laws in Oregon were quite clear and there is little doubt that they were in violation. We cannot have businesses (or anyone else for that matter) deciding what laws they will or won't follow with impunity for whatever reason. There were religious reasons given for refusing to serve blacks in the south in the 50s, just as there were here. But now there are laws, at least there are in some places, and this baker was in violation. If this had occurred in some place where there was no such law, that would be a different matter. But it did occur in a state where sexual orientation is covered by public accommodation laws. As such, it was right that the case be brought to the state for review. No sympathy for him whatsoever.

 

You and Juan state it perfectly. We've struggled for decades and decades just to get some basic rights thrown our way. If we don't stand up for ourselves, who will? Certainly not these hateful assholes who "love the sinner, hate the sin."

[Frequentflier]

Turning the other cheek allowed trainloads of jews, gays and gipsies to be tortured and killed. Turning the other cheek allowed lynchings of countless black men and women in the south. Turning the other cheek empowered every single heinous act of mass genocide all over the world. Turning the other cheek is allowing an ignorant government to pass laws that are directly written to suppress, victimize and disempower very specific sectors of the population with these new and law sanctioned russian anti gay pogroms.

.

 

Well stated and I'll go further that even if the bakery owners hadn't been breaking the law by their discriminatory behavior they were wrong and people who opposed, spoke out and encouraged others to boycott their business were right. I guess some people fail to understand that the fair treatment and equal rights that many of us insist on for everyone will be the same rights that will protect them in 10 + years when today's majority are the minority. Too many people don't have the ability to empathize with others.

[Newly]

I agree. I don't think "the law" much matters if something is morally wrong, and civil disobedience is our duty if a law is wrong. Killing Jews wasn't illegal in Nazi Germany, Virginia law disallowed interracial marriage until the Supreme Court forced them to allow it in 1968 (it even had a cute Pocahontas exception when a bunch of Richmond blue bloods who claimed to be related to her and John Smith realized that under the laws they stupidly created they would be prohibited from marrying whites), and so on. If a law is morally reprehensible and allows you to hurt a human being and take away their rights based solely on things like religion, race or sexual orientation at some point you have to take action.

[leigh.bess.toad]

I want to make clear, that I would have supported action such as a boycott against the baker had they been in a state without sexual orientation codified in the public accommodation laws. But since they were in Oregon with those laws in place, use them. It makes it so much easier. However, I am never in support of people calling or emailing death threats to anyone as has happened here by a few. THAT hurts our cause and must be condemned as well.

[+ Gar1eth]

I appreciate the welcome back. Unfortunately at this time I can't contribute routinely. Hopefully some day I will be back for good and can stay.

 

But I wanted to raise a point that I missed in my earlier posting. And Juan and several others are right. The bakery's actions needed to be protested whether Oregon had a non discrimination law or not. Peaceful Civil Disobedience in the name of what is right and fair should always be allowed. I think Juan and several other posters here have been more eloquent than I was in my response. And their replies in turn made me think of the following. It's nothing new- but probably every generation finds out how appropriate it remains for them. So here it is-

 

"First They Came" by Martin Niemoeller

 

 

First they came for the communists,

and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

 

Then they came for the socialists,

and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a socialist.

 

Then they came for the trade unionists,

and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

 

Then they came for me,

and there was no one left to speak for me."

 

Two things - First-even though he wrote this powerful poem- there is controversy over whether Martin was an anti-Semite.

Second- while this return was short. I hope everyone is well. As I stated above- I hope one of these days I can return full time, and that if I do, there are still people around who care.

 

 

Gman

 

PS - and just a quick FYI if anyone is interested- there is no 'h' in 'tallywacker'

 

G

[+ FreshFluff]

I miss you, Gareth. Wish you would stay but your well being comes first.

 

As for the anti-gay bakery, nothing wrong with not tolerating bigotry. This is a situation where I think consumers themselves are more powerful than anti-discrimination laws. Even if someone doesn't care about gay rights, why would she want to be seen going into a place run by bigots especially in a liberal state. Unless other bigots can keep them going, they'd be out of business eventually--and they wouldn't be able to play the martyr role.

[bcohen7719]

Quickly I would like to say, welcome back Gman, however brief we have you for, and thank you BC for the links posted and then the additional links that came after each video. It made for a most thoughtful and sober morning and a reminder of the world we live in. Perhaps it is the time for me to go out, and to give more of myself, in an effort to help affect change....

 

...and thank you, BVB, for your always-positive and encouraging notes. They brighten one's morning

and calm one's evening--just knowing how well you listen, and hearing the

appreciation in your measured voice.

 

Best as always,

 

BC

[bigvalboy]

...and thank you, BVB, for your always-positive and encouraging notes. They brighten one's morning

and calm one's evening--just knowing how well you listen, and hearing the

appreciation in your measured voice.

 

Best as always,

 

BC

 

Thank you for the kind words BC. I will say that I look forward to your always informative posts. It brings a level of quality to the forum that allows many of us to just sit back and reflect on so many aspects of our lives.

[JoshChgo]

A good bakery will rise to the occasion, it's the yeast they can do. They failed. Bye-Bye.

[SethMatthews]

I'll say it: seems like just desserts.

Is that the bakery that closed.. the one on Denman in Vancouver?

 

Or are their billions of bakerys by the name and did I just sound stupid, haha.

I live right beside there, literally right on Denman.

 

If it is that bakery it's kinda ironic they are "anti gay" because I believe that new bath house/sex club(?) just opened up there.

I think it's called 8x10.

 

All this talk of desserts and now cock has got me hungry.. for which one I'm not quite sure.