Rage at this age

[jackhammer91406]

Guys,

This is a follow up on a post I did sometime ago about relationships. I am in the first stages of asking guys out on dates and still can't get past my hangup about my age and the difference between it and the guys I am attracted to (15-20 years difference). Would love to have some constructive help on how to get over this. I know May-December relationships exist between former escorts who are now "in love" but in my case, that poor escort would starve so obviously I don't have that kind of budget. But are there many of you who have had fulfilling relationships with guys who are either much younger or much older. What are the chances? Like with everything, it would depend alot on the individuals, but am I looking for something that can't really exist? Frienships maybe, but nothing LT? Would love some feedback and I think I can take it from anyone including Axebahia (BTW Axe, I am feeling pretty good these days, thanks for asking).

 

Smiles to everyone and to NYC, Go PRide!

 

:7

[jackhammer91406]

Probably don't need to say this, but I am not talking about dating escorts. That can happen of course, but this question is more on the non business level.

Thanks for all thoughts

[+ Lucky]

Well, jack, as you know my partner is 13 years younger than me, and we have lasted 21 years....so, yes, it is possible.

[Guest Gringo]

I think such relationships are possible, but more available in latin countries. Here in the good old usa, the focus on youth is very intense. However, with the graying of america, its interesting to note that the fastest growing segment of the population is those who are 80+. However, in latin countries, and Brazil especially, the lines between young and old, gay and straight are refreshingly relaxed. Many young men consider themselves lucky indeed to find an older man to help and love. It have seen it many times and it has warmed my old and jaded heart. Keep yourself open to the opportunity. There are hustlers, there are sauna boys, and there are many capable of sincere attraction and affection. Go for it!!:+

[woodlawn]

If you have the impression that most younger gay men have little interest in dating older men, you're probably perceiving the world around you quite accurately. I've no doubt there are some younger men who prefer the older ones, but my sense is they are a minority and if you are hoping to run into some of them by hanging out in some general-interest bar or club you may have a very long search ahead of you. I believe there once were and may still be some websites specifically devoted to younger men who prefer older, and you can always post ads in various places that are worded to attract such younger men. Even if you could find such a youth, there remains the issue of whether it makes sense to think you can have a long term relationship with someone who is too young to know himself and who will go through a good many changes as the years pass.

 

Ever thought about just growing up and spending time with people your own age? I think that's the most constructive suggestion anyone can make to you.

[+ Lucky]

"Ever thought about just growing up and spending time with people your own age?"

 

Isn't that what we are doing here?

 

(BTW, woodie, would you come to the wedding?)

[Bilbo]

Bad news: My third husband (I'm on my fifth) was 20 years older than me. Why is that bad? He was also the wierdest of all my husbands. But we were together 2 years and you can have a wonderful two years, or at least a great one followed by a rougher second one, if you are only judging by this. Which you shouldn't.

 

Mediocre news: I don't remember how old you are, so I don't know how old you are looking for. But if you are looking for a lover under 26, I hope you don't find one. Those boys, by and large, are just not ready for you, whether they think they are or not. I know I'm being prejudiced here, but I think you deserve better than that.

 

Good news: AIDS! Whoda thunk it would ever be referred to as good news. But its a really worse wind than would be allowed to blow that doesn't have some niceties in its wake. If you look at them askew. Anyway, as even Woodlawn said, "most" young men don't turn on to older guys. Leaving some who do. And too, too many of your gay contemporaries were killed off in the pandemic. Leaving fewer for the guys who want older men to choose from. So, while you probably usually feel like a "glut on the market", you are actually, in many ways, one of the few guys who are right for the guys you are right for.

[+ Lucky]

Sorry, Bilbo, but the good news spin you try to weave really falls flat with me. It is good news that so many men died leaving more younger guys available for jack? I don't think jack would accept that price.

[Will]

I've thought a lot about this myself, but I don't think I have any wisdom to offer on the subject. I do have a couple of thoughts, though.

 

First, Lucky -- along with many, many other men -- is living proof that a distinct difference in age can be the sauce that keeps a relationship spicey. So that's that.

 

On the other hand is the difficulty I've had in meeting/dating men in my own age group. Usually, they are all looking for the younger set; and if they aren't, they are so nuts that I can hardly be in the same room with them. I think that things will be much, much better for the next generation and for the one following. I say that because the increasing indifference that young people have towards sexual orientation is a sign to me that, in thirty or so more years, out gay men will have grown up, side by side, have dated, and have made lives together. All in an ordinary way. That is certainly the case among the well-educated, socially self-confident young people I know (and I know hundreds, maybe thousands, of them).

 

Another thought is that the kind of man who is attracted to you will be a reflection of who you really are. For example, although not many younger men are sexually attracted to me -- not that I know of anyhow, although I don't live in an environment that would make it likely -- younger men seem to be irresistably drawn to me in bonds of affection. That's because I am not "old" in any sense of the word. I'm as open, naive, idealistic, and enthusiastic about life as I ever was as a young man, and I think younger men find that enormously encouraging and attractive.

 

So I would suggest that you figure out what kind of man you want to be with. Will he be interested in politics? In religion? In environmental causes? In opera? In art? In sports? Figure those things out, and then find gatherings of men who are united around common interests as much as, or even more than, around The Hunt. For example, no serious recovering alcoholic would look for a potential partner in a bar. And no biker is going to an interior designers' convention in pursuit of the perfect Hell's Angel.

 

Gentlemen Of A Certain Age have a hard time believing that anything about themselves is interesting unless they're willing to pay somebody to be interested in them. That's why I think that "just dating" is probably a bad idea when one is a little long in the tooth. On the other hand, the local ACLU chapter, the local gay men's chorus, the local whatever -- that's where you might just find date material. And while you're looking, you may even make some friends. Fancy that!

[Bilbo]

Lucky - Given the choice, none of us would have accepted it. Accepted, acknowledged or not, it's there.

[VaHawk]

Why would who he is seeking have to be a youth??? I believe he said 15 to 20 years younger. If he is in his fifties that would mean someone in their mid 30's or older. If a guy isn't grown up by then, then perhaps he should be avoided?

[+ Lucky]

Bilbo- But let's not classify it as "good news."

[+ bigjoey]

there are many gay men in relationships with large age differences. two famous men that come to mind are christopher isherwood (i think his lover was close to 30 or 40 years younger) and philip johnson who has a much younger lover of at least 20 years as i recall. i am in a relationship where there is a 14 year difference and one of my closest friends is in one where there is a 15 year difference(he has been with his lover for about a decade). it really comes down to the chemistry of the people involved. if being with a younger man is your goal, it is possible.

 

just do not get too hung up on your idealized man. i was always attracted to blond, blue-eyed aryans. the man i fell in love with is a brown haired, brown eyed man of italian background---go figure? when i met him, i knew we were right for each other as things just clicked and i could care less about hair, eyes and background; the surface was not important, it was the soul inside. so it can be about age; if you are lucky to find your soul mate, look beyond the temporal.

 

good luck in your search.

[Guest]

>Good news: AIDS! Whoda thunk it would ever be referred to as

>good news.

>And too, too many of your gay contemporaries were killed off

>in the pandemic. Leaving fewer for the guys who want older men

>to choose from. So, while you probably usually feel like a

>"glut on the market", you are actually, in many ways, one of

>the few guys who are right for the guys you are right for.

 

Contrary to the opinion of fundamentalists and many other ignorant people, only a small fraction of gay people have contracted HIV (let alone succumbed to AIDS). I don't have exact numbers (maybe someone else does), but I'm pretty sure it's less than 10%.

[axebahia]

>Ever thought about just growing up and spending time with

>people your own age? I think that's the most constructive

>suggestion anyone can make to you.

 

Another option - one that his therapist - is to return to the rental market. It exists to help arbitrage the gap between desire and capacity. Viewed in that light his banker might even agree with his therapist too!

[Paul Revere]

Jack;

 

There are great possibilities for older men/younger men relationships. As some have already pointed out, you need to put yourself in the venue where there are younger guys seeking older guys. I hate to use this stereotype, but is there a piano bar near where you live? Boston used have Napolean's; where younger men sought older men singing show tunes around the piano. Of course in those venues, you need to sort through he hustlers and flakes, but there really are younger men seekeing older men.

 

I have a very hot friend in his thirties who only dates men over 60. Go figure.

 

The other place that you may try is: http://www.apollonetwork.com/.

 

This is a website for matching men with age differneces. A good friend of mine used it to meet his current bf, and they are very happy. My freind is in his 60's, the BF in his 40s. It works for them, and it may be able to work for you.

 

If you are trying to meet and fall in love with an Abercrombie and Fitch model, you may need to take that fantasy up with your therapist.

 

And by the way, I found Bilbo's post distasteful in every way. I generally ignore his posts, but the one on this thread calls for an apology and/or retraction. His comments about our contemporaries who have passed from AIDS was simplt twisted. I also would be reluctant to take relationship advice from someone who is on his fifth "hsuband". Either he is drawn to bad relationships, or he doesn't know the difference between a "husband" and an extended trick.

[Bilbo]

Lucky - I concede your point. But for an older man who isn't confident of his own sexiness, wouldn't the knowledge that if he dares to become confident of it he will be, not a rare commodity, but one that just matches its demand instead of being overstocked be nice news? That his shelf life is not past sell by date?

 

Now that I have conceded and - I apologize as well!! - I am a bit tired of this argument and have purposefully laid myself open to be hit on instead for over objectifying our newly confident sexy friend by the overuse of marketing terms.

[Bilbo]

See above for an apolgy.

 

An extended trick probably lasts 3 months tops. A husband lasts at least two years, unless he dies first, which my first one did when we had been together for nine months. My fourth died, too, after six years together, from AIDS. I am, therefore, qualified to say whatever I damn well please about the hateful plague which took him from me. If you doubt that it is possible to have had five husbands and have loved them all, you are probably a good bit younger than I am. And luckier than my lover. I am his fourth husband because he had three die on him from AIDS in the space of ten years. He himself is a long term survivor, so if AIDS won't leave us alone, I certainly hope our humor, no matter how mordant it may be at times, doesn't either.

 

If you can find a treasure trove of older gay men who have been out and proud for over a decade, I believe that I can find a lot of younger men looking for them. Such as many of my clients.

 

Jackhammer surely can be old enough for a sufficiently younger man to be in his early 30s. I have never set eyes on a photograph of Jack, or Little Jack either for that matter. From his writing, and from what others have said of him, I don't picture him as being over 36 myself. But then Karl Haas didn't look as old and professory as I had hoped he was from his sexy radio voice when I finally saw a picture of him, so I have not proven to be a good judge in this sort of thing.

 

And I have never been widely known as tasteful. (Indeed, my lack of taste helped my drag personna raise thousands of dollars for the fight against AIDS.) And when I try to be subtle, it goes completely unnoticed. And when I do sometimes embrace the unfortunately overlying cynacism of this age, I am sick and twisted.

 

I am sorry to hear that you usually ignore my posts. And I shall try to never again have such a giddy time as the fifteen minutes or so in which I posted about six times yesterday.

[Rod Hagen]

>...and if they aren't, they are so nuts that I

>can hardly be in the same room with them.

 

What do you mean by this?

 

About a year ago I appealed to this, and the muscle service's, board for the reasoning behind May/December desires. And it still confounds me. You can control who you are attracted to, we aren't dogs. It takes discipline, but it's totally doable. Since that is the case,whenever Old will ONLY consider young (and I'm talking Isherwood-styled age discrepancies), isn't there the implication that Old is "Less Than"? Seems that way to me.

 

My partner's 18 years older than me, not a HUGE spread. But I've had plenty of sex with guys in there 70s. I've also spent time with outside the bedroom with these men, particularly in the days when I was doing overnights. They're fun, well-rounded guys. So why are most men in that age group not even WILLING to consider similar-age relationships? What's so horrible about partnering with someone in his 70's/60's? Nothing that I can see.

[+ Lucky]

Well, I can move on here.

[Rod Hagen]

>What's so horrible about partnering with someone in his

>70's/60's? Nothing that I can see.

 

Should read: "When one is in his 70s/60s, what is so horrible about partnering with someone in his 70s/60s? Nothing that I can see."

 

-Hagen

[+ Lucky]

Well, shrinkled shriveled limp dicks for one! Rod, you are unique in that you can find a sexual attraction in most men, at least older men. We as an older community are beaten over the head with images of youth and are so widely dismissed when we go out into the "community." Despite the opinion of some here that my salad days aren't over yet, I never get cruised at the gym where the majority are young guys. They tend to walk right into me as if I weren't there, except for that sweet guy with the mohawk haircut.

All of my friends are over 40, and I like it that way. I find that guys in their 20's tend to talk about only one thing, not sex. Themselves! That is a generalization, but give me a guy who reads, travels, goes to the theater, movies, and nice restaurants, plus stakes good care of himself. They are rare under 30 and that's why those who do have that can charge for their company.

But, like men everywhere, the flower of youth puts a charge in my life.

[woodlawn]

>"Ever thought about just growing up and spending time with

>people your own age?"

 

>Isn't that what we are doing here?

 

Nope. Posting stupid insults on an anonymous internet message board does not constitute a relationship.

 

>(BTW, woodie, would you come to the wedding?)

 

Only if I thought someone would be there whom I might actually enjoy meeting. That lets out just about everyone here.

[woodlawn]

>Why would who he is seeking have to be a youth??? I believe

>he said 15 to 20 years younger. If he is in his fifties that

>would mean someone in their mid 30's or older. If a guy isn't

>grown up by then, then perhaps he should be avoided?

 

I distinctly recall seeing a post from jackhammer earlier this year stating that he is 45. So someone twenty years younger would be . . . ?

 

I would agree with you that if a guy hasn't grown up by the time he's in his mid thirties there must be a serious problem. That's the first thing that comes to mind when I see some of the posters here giggling like schoolgirls over the charms of some escort.

 

Growing up also involves developing the ability to distinguish between fantasy and reality. Desiring a younger sexual partner is not exactly unusual. If my straight friends are to be believed, that is the most common sexual fantasy among heterosexual men. But surely it is part of growing up to understand that relationships are about reality, not fantasy.

[+ Lucky]

"Only if I thought someone would be there whom I might actually enjoy meeting. That lets out just about everyone here"

 

Then why do you spend so much time with us?