West Side Story

[+ Gar1eth]

Ok talk about one of those times when one thing leads to another- I've come across a gem. I was reading the article in the NY Times about Elaine Strich's last performances. I went to Wikipedia to read more about her although I've read the article before. It talked about her role in Company. I went to Wikipedia's Company article - which I've also read before as I looked it up recently when I watched part of a taped production of Company on Netflix as well as well as a symphonic version which I think was on Hulu plus. Reading about Company, I saw that Larry Kert had taken over for Dean Jones. I had read about Larry before.

 

I'm sorry this exposition is taking so long- but we are almost there- and it's really worth it. So please wait for it.

 

The article mentioned that Larry had been the original Tony in West Side Story but hadn't been cast in the movie as he was in his 30's and looked too old. I'm not sure how young I thought Richard Beymer looked in the movie. But anyway, I wanted to see a picture of Larry Kert. While I was looking up his picture, I found this GEM from the Ed Sullivan show. Both he and Carol Lawrence had incredible voices.

 

Thanks for waiting.

 

Here is the reward

 

[video=youtube;aLHeLU2dGBg]

 

 

 

Gman

[operalover21]

Ok talk about one of those times when one thing leads to another- I've come across a gem. I was reading the article in the NY Times about Elaine Strich's last performances. I went to Wikipedia to read more about her although I've read the article before. It talked about her role in Company. I went to Wikipedia's Company article - which I've also read before as I looked it up recently when I watched part of a taped production of Company on Netflix as well as well as a symphonic version which I think was on Hulu plus. Reading about Company, I saw that Larry Kert had taken over for Dean Jones. I had read about Larry before.

 

I'm sorry this exposition is taking so long- but we are almost there- and it's really worth it. So please wait for it.

 

The article mentioned that Larry had been the original Tony in West Side Story but hadn't been cast in the movie as he was in his 30's and looked too old. I'm not sure how young I thought Richard Beymer looked in the movie. But anyway, I wanted to see a picture of Larry Kert. While I was looking up his picture, I found this GEM from the Ed Sullivan show. Both he and Carol Lawrence had incredible voices.

 

Thanks for waiting.

 

Here is the reward

 

[video=youtube;aLHeLU2dGBg]

 

 

 

Gman

 

It's a shame he wasn't case because, for my money, every single person in the movie version of West Side Story is completely and totally miscast. And not a single one of them actually sings. Now, I don't mind a dubbed voice when the actor/actress you are choosing for the part is the ONLY possible person who could really play that part or they are ideal (a perfect example is Deborah Kerr in King and I. She was completely perfect in that part). But in West Side Story you had Wood, Beymer and Chakiris and none of them were such great actors that there weren't some real singers/actors who could have played those parts. As for Rita Moreno, great performer who could actually sing, and they dubbed her anyway!

 

That movie is atrocious.

[+ purplekow]

Great performance. AS for Mr. Kert looking too old for the role, a big of makeup to fill in the widow's peak and he could definitely pass for 25 which is teen age in movie years.

[operalover21]

Great performance. AS for Mr. Kert looking too old for the role, a big of makeup to fill in the widow's peak and he could definitely pass for 25 which is teen age in movie years.

 

And he could act and sing. Two things Richard Beymer never could do as the great film career he had AFTER West Side Story attests to.

[+ Gar1eth]

His voice in this sounds so natural not a strained note to be found. I found another You Tube of him singing Being Alive from Company. Unfortunately no video of him just the music. I don't know if it was from the cast album or another performance. His voice was incredibly beautiful - again unstrained. But on that song after listening to Dean Jones, Raul Esparza's, and even Neil Patrick Harris' versions-I noticed there didn't seem to be a lot of emotion in it. Of course I have no idea how he appeared when he sang it during an actual performance. I wish I could have seen him ( And I know this will be blasphemy but I'm not a great Sondheim fan although there a few things of his that I like. )

 

Gman

 

PS I will say Beymer was really hunky looking as Tony in the movie of West Side Story- gotta give him that and --Natalie was georgeous. But Operalover21 was right. While I can't think who it could have been, I'm sure there were some hunky actors and pretty actresses at the time that could actually sing who could have done the movie.

 

G

[operalover21]

His voice in this sounds so natural not a strained note to be found. I found another You Tube of him singing Being Alive from Company. Unfortunately no video of him just the music. I don't know if it was from the cast album or another performance. His voice was incredibly beautiful - again unstrained. But on that song after listening to Dean Jones, Raul Esparza's, and even Neil Patrick Harris' versions-I noticed there didn't seem to be a lot of emotion in it. Of course I have no idea how he appeared when he sang it during an actual performance. I wish I could have seen him ( And I know this will be blasphemy but I'm not a great Sondheim fan although there a few things of his that I like. )

 

Gman

 

PS I will say Beymer was really hunky looking as Tony in the movie of West Side Story- gotta give him that and --Natalie was georgeous. But Operalover21 was right. While I can't think who it could have been, I'm sure there were some hunky actors and pretty actresses at the time that could actually sing who could have done the movie.

 

G

 

And Kert was openly gay at a time when that wasn't easy. You can bet that affected the fact that he didn't get Hollywood roles. Btw, Kert was only 29 when West Side Story was filmed and he, sadly, died of AIDS at age 60 in 1991.

[+ Gar1eth]

And Kert was openly gay at a time when that wasn't easy. You can bet that affected the fact that he didn't get Hollywood roles. Btw, Kert was only 29 when West Side Story was filmed and he, sadly, died of AIDS at age 60 in 1991.

 

To give Beymer credit--he was 21. I'm sure he did look a lot younger than a 29-30 year old.

[operalover21]

To give Beymer credit--he was 21. I'm sure he did look a lot younger than a 29-30 year old.

 

It's hard to understand how he got the part unless he was sleeping with Jerome Robbins at the time. He really was completely talentless.

[+ WilliamM]

To give Beymer credit--he was 21. I'm sure he did look a lot younger than a 29-30 year old.

 

Sadly, Larry Kert is far from the only Broadway star who did not create his/her signature role on film. It may have been because of the age difference with Beymer, or that he was opened gay. Whatever the reason, it's a shame.

 

But, I do understand that when "Mame' was filmed, Lucille Ball was far better known than Angela Lansbury. And Lucy had gotten away with her singing on Broadway in 'Wildcat.' Guess studio executives forgot that she was more than decade older, and her voice much deeper. I am not a fan of 'Mame' on any level, but it is such an obvious example of a Hollywood mistake.

[+ Gar1eth]

Sadly, Larry Kert is far from the only Broadway star who did not create his/her signature role on film. It may have been because of the age difference with Beymer, or that he was opened gay. Whatever the reason, it's a shame.

 

But, I do understand that when "Mame' was filmed, Lucille Ball was far better known than Angela Lansbury. And Lucy had gotten away with her singing on Broadway in 'Wildcat.' Guess studio executives forgot that she was more than decade older, and her voice much deeper. I am not a fan of 'Mame' on any level, but it is such an obvious example of a Hollywood mistake.

 

I was just thinking of Mame the other day. In fact I bought it for instant viewing on Amazon. I saw it when it came out when I was 13. I've always liked it. Call me a philistine. Would Angela Lansbury have done better- very likely. But I still like it. Bea Arthur is a gem in it. And the scene where Lucy messes up the play inside the movie is a classic. And she looks really pretty holding the fox at the end of the hunt.

 

Gman

[operalover21]

Sadly, Larry Kert is far from the only Broadway star who did not create his/her signature role on film. It may have been because of the age difference with Beymer, or that he was opened gay. Whatever the reason, it's a shame.

 

But, I do understand that when "Mame' was filmed, Lucille Ball was far better known than Angela Lansbury. And Lucy had gotten away with her singing on Broadway in 'Wildcat.' Guess studio executives forgot that she was more than decade older, and her voice much deeper. I am not a fan of 'Mame' on any level, but it is such an obvious example of a Hollywood mistake.

 

The list is fairly endless, sadly. MAME the Broadway show, which I saw, with Angela was fantastic. The movie was an abortion. Poor Jerry Herman. He had his two greatest shows turned into horrendously bad movies. Then there's HELLO DOLLY with the woefully miscast Barbra Streisand instead of Carol Channing. So Dolly Gallagher Levi is turned from an Irish matchmaker into a young Jewish harridan. No wonder that Walter Matthau literally called it the worst experience of his professional life and wanted to kill the awful Streisand.

[operalover21]

I was just thinking of Mame the other day. In fact I bought it for instant viewing on Amazon. I saw it when it came out when I was 13. I've always liked it. Call me a philistine. Would Angela Lansbury have done better- very likely. But I still like it. Bea Arthur is a gem in it. And the scene where Lucy messes up the play inside the movie is a classic. And she looks really pretty holding the fox at the end of the hunt.

 

Gman

 

Oh no! Gman: your gay theater card is officially revoked

If they had used any more vaseline on the camera lenses when shooting Lucy she would have completely disappeared!

[+ Gar1eth]

Oh no! Gman: your gay theater card is officially revoked

If they had used any more vaseline on the camera lenses when shooting Lucy she would have completely disappeared!

 

I noticed when I was looking at it last night that sometimes she looked a bit fuzzy in some shots. It's less noticeable when the shot includes other people. I hate to ask this though, but you are going to need to give me my card back because you are going to want to take it back again when I tell you I love the movie Hello Dolly!! I don't care that Barbra should have been older. I was 8 years old when I saw it She looked plenty old to me then. And as I've re-viewed it over the years, I will admit that Barbra and Walter look mismatched. But you might as well say that they should have casted him younger. And finally for the piece de resistance where you might even refuse to admit I ever had a card to begin with- I love the movie Thoroughly Modern Millie. I think it's hilarious!! Plus I love looking at John Gavin in his prime.

 

Gman

[operalover21]

I noticed when I was looking at it last night that sometimes she looked a bit fuzzy in some shots. It's less noticeable when the shot includes other people. I hate to ask this though, but you are going to need to give me my card back because you are going to want to take it back again when I tell you I love the movie Hello Dolly!! I don't care that Barbra should have been older. I was 8 years old when I saw it She looked plenty old to me then. And as I've re-viewed it over the years, I will admit that Barbra and Walter look mismatched. But you might as well say that they should have casted him younger. And finally for the piece de resistance where you might even refuse to admit I ever had a card to begin with- I love the movie Thoroughly Modern Millie. I think it's hilarious!! Plus I love looking at John Gavin in his prime.

 

Gman

 

Yep, it's on indefinite suspension. Streisand is not only too young but the character is not Jewish. And that's how she plays it. She also plays it so broadly that she makes Channing look subtle. And that's almost impossible. Gene Kelly could do many things. Direct a musical he wasn't in, wasn't one of them.

[+ WilliamM]

Yep' date=' it's on indefinite suspension. Streisand is not only too young but the character is not Jewish. And that's how she plays it. She also plays it so broadly that she makes Channing look subtle. And that's almost impossible. Gene Kelly could do many things. Direct a musical he wasn't in, wasn't one of them.[/quote']

 

I liked Channing well enough the few times I saw her on stage, but I totally agree about her acting style. I liked "Funny Girl" very much on Broadway (well really the Boston tryout), but have never watched either "Hello, Dolly" or "Funny Girl" on film, and probably never will.

[operalover21]

I liked Channing well enough the few times I saw her on stage, but I totally agree about her acting style. I liked "Funny Girl" very much on Broadway (well really the Boston tryout), but have never watched either "Hello, Dolly" or "Funny Girl" on film, and probably never will.

 

You're not missing anything although FUNNY GIRL is, by far, the better film (better director -- William Wyler - helped) ....

[+ Gar1eth]

I liked Channing well enough the few times I saw her on stage, but I totally agree about her acting style. I liked "Funny Girl" very much on Broadway (well really the Boston tryout), but have never watched either "Hello, Dolly" or "Funny Girl" on film, and probably never will.

 

 

I think you two are stil holding old grudges against Barbra. She was perfect in Hello Dolly. I still enjoy watching it. And you know why that is? I'll tell you. It's simply because, 'I have elegance. And Babra has elegance ( in that part). If you ain't got elegance, you can never ever carry it off '. Ha ha that was from memory. How many other people would know the song. Please return my gay card along with a slight remuneration for the distress you have caused me. While you are at it, please don't rain on my parade. And the last thing I want to leave you with is to remember- It only takes a moment to be loved your whole life through.( Unfortunately I seemed to have missed that moment. But oh well.)

 

 

Gman

 

PS Funny Girl-wonderful movie!!!!!

[bostonman]

I think you two are stil holding old grudges against Barbra. She was perfect in Hello Dolly. I still enjoy watching it. And you know why that is? I'll tell you. It's simply because, 'I have elegance. And Babra has elegance ( in that part). If you ain't got elegance, you can never ever carry it off '. Ha ha that was from memory. How many other people would know the song. Please return my gay card along with a slight remuneration for the distress you have caused me. While you are at it, please don't rain on my parade. And the last thing I want to leave you with is to remember- It only takes a moment to be loved your whole life through.( Unfortunately I seemed to have missed that moment. But oh well.)

 

 

Gman

 

PS Funny Girl-wonderful movie!!!!!

 

Actually, I think Streisand LACKS elegance in the movie of Hello, Dolly. She's doing her classic "look how hard I'm working" thing - evident right from the top in the new song they gave her ("Just Leave Everything To Me"). It's that same kind of frantic, sweaty "boy, acting is tough stuff" attitude I hear in her recorded performance of "Putting It Together" on her first Broadway album - instead of making this all seem easy, as many performers would do, she seems to delight in hitting us over the head with how much effort she's putting into it all. The story goes that the original working title for the Broadway show was Dolly - A Damned Exasperating Woman (I'm not making this up, lol), and I tend to think that's exactly what Streisand is doing - playing a damned exasperating woman. She isn't charming in this film, she isn't elegant in this film, and to me she isn't Dolly Levi.

 

And if, god forbid, her fantasy of playing Madame Rose in a new film of Gypsy does come true, I have a feeling she'll approach that role the same way - oversell, oversell, oversell. I'll pass...

 

(Btw, you almost got the Dolly lyrics correctly from memory, lol - but if I may, it's "it only takes a moment / to be loved your whole life LONG" - not "through.")

 

;-)

[+ Gar1eth]

Actually, I think Streisand LACKS elegance in the movie of Hello, Dolly. She's doing her classic "look how hard I'm working" thing - evident right from the top in the new song they gave her ("Just Leave Everything To Me"). It's that same kind of frantic, sweaty "boy, acting is tough stuff" attitude I hear in her recorded performance of "Putting It Together" on her first Broadway album - instead of making this all seem easy, as many performers would do, she seems to delight in hitting us over the head with how much effort she's putting into it all. The story goes that the original working title for the Broadway show was Dolly - A Damned Exasperating Woman (I'm not making this up, lol), and I tend to think that's exactly what Streisand is doing - playing a damned exasperating woman. She isn't charming in this film, she isn't elegant in this film, and to me she isn't Dolly Levi.

 

And if, god forbid, her fantasy of playing Madame Rose in a new film of Gypsy does come true, I have a feeling she'll approach that role the same way - oversell, oversell, oversell. I'll pass...

 

(Btw, you almost got the Dolly lyrics correctly from memory, lol - but if I may, it's "it only takes a moment / to be loved your whole life LONG" - not "through.")

 

;-)

 

I appreciate the lyric correction. But about the name of the show Dolly- A Damn Exasperating Woman-well since it was the Broadway Play wouldn't it in this case have referred to Ms. Channing then?

 

 

Anyway- fellas, we are just going to have to agree to disagree. I'll admit there are some musicals (films) that I loved growing up that I'm not sure I do anymore- Camelot and (maybe) Fiddler On The Roof being the two I can think up off the top of my head ( and I may not be that fond of Fiddler the play either. I had a major fight with someone I wanted as a boyfriend 18 years ago at a touring production starring Theodore Bikel- don't worry it didnt disturb the production. But the memory makes me not really want to see it again- except I love the dream sequence in the movie).

 

But I still love Barbra in 'Funny Girl' and 'Hello Dolly' ( and Barnaby is very cute- very tragic about his murder years later). I also like the non musical-' What's Up Doc?'. Now before you say I'm just one of those guys in love with Barbra- I'll have to tell you- I don't like 'For Pete's Sake' or 'The Main Event'. I doubt I would like the 'Owl and the Pussycat' either. I'll admit 'The Way We Were' was a good movie but I don't like sad endings. And I'm not sure about 'A Star Is Born'. I think I remember liking Yentl- but it may have been too long. And I'm not sure I like it enough to watch it again and again the way I do Funny Girl or Hello Dolly- although it seems to me now that I am thinking that there might be a skinny dipping scene in Yentl that might be interesting to review sometime.

 

So again we will have to agree to disagree. And I promise if we ever meet, not to force you to watch Mame, Funny Girl, or Hello Dolly. Please be so kind not to show me Camelot or Fiddler ( except for the dream sequence, of course) or the PBS versions of Sunday In The Park With George or Into The Woods.

Gman

[+ WilliamM]

Jerry Herman wrote "Hello, Dolly" for Ethel Merman, who turned it down, as did several others before they got to Carol Channing. So the original title does not necessary have anything to do with Channing.

[operalover21]

I think you two are stil holding old grudges against Barbra. She was perfect in Hello Dolly. I still enjoy watching it. And you know why that is? I'll tell you. It's simply because, 'I have elegance. And Babra has elegance ( in that part). If you ain't got elegance, you can never ever carry it off '. Ha ha that was from memory. How many other people would know the song. Please return my gay card along with a slight remuneration for the distress you have caused me. While you are at it, please don't rain on my parade. And the last thing I want to leave you with is to remember- It only takes a moment to be loved your whole life through.( Unfortunately I seemed to have missed that moment. But oh well.)

 

Gman: I'm sorry but you're totally wrong. There's no grudge. How can you claim she was "perfect" in Hello Dolly when she plays an Irish character in a broadly Jewish way and is at least 20 years too young for the part? I'm sorry, the movie is a mess and her performance is awful. The character is NOT elegant. And when was Streisand ever elegant, anyway? She's always loud and crass.

Gman

[bostonman]

[quote=operalover21;852704 And when was Streisand ever elegant, anyway? She's always loud and crass.

Gman

 

Well, to give the lady some due, I don't think she's ALWAYS loud and crass - and in fact I'm not sure crass would be a word I'd use to describe her performance persona in general. But I do often feel there's something a little "pushed" in her presentation - that sense of "showing us the work" that I mentioned before - and not always the grace and ease that I wish she'd rely more on. She has, to be fair, done some very impressive work in her time - and if you go back and find videos of her early TV specials ("My Name is Barbra" et al), there's much more of that sense of ease and natural sensibility there. At some point I feel she really lost touch with that.

[+ WilliamM]

Well' date=' to give the lady some due, I don't think she's ALWAYS loud and crass - and in fact I'm not sure crass would be a word I'd use to describe her performance persona in general. But I do often feel there's something a little "pushed" in her presentation - that sense of "showing us the work" that I mentioned before - and not always the grace and ease that I wish she'd rely more on. She has, to be fair, done some very impressive work in her time - and if you go back and find videos of her early TV specials ("My Name is Barbra" et al), there's much more of that sense of ease and natural sensibility there. At some point I feel she really lost touch with that.[/quote']

 

I agree about the high quality of Streisand's early television specials as well as her famous appearance on the "The Judy Garland Show" in 1963 before "Funny Girl." I also like her concert (available on DVD) on the grounds of her former Malibu

home in the 1980s. I have only seen her once in concert recently (2006, I believe). She was fine, but I would not pay those high ticket prices again...but I do not remember thinking she was either loud or crass.

[+ Gar1eth]

 

Gman: I'm sorry but you're totally wrong. There's no grudge. How can you claim she was "perfect" in Hello Dolly when she plays an Irish character in a broadly Jewish way

 

Having just re-watched part of the movie- I can see your point. Sometimes there are definite Funny Girl-isms. But it doesn't detract much for me at all. And it was only her second movie- after having 1st played Funny Girl. Give her a break. Cary Grant played the same character for most of his film roles forever, and people loved him.

 

The musical is a throwback to the big budget musicals of the 1940's. The music is great, she is in great voice, the costumes are excellent, the colors are lush and supersaturated.

 

I saw a scene with Channing on You Tube- probably from the Tonys. Her singing voice had much less vibrato than it did in her later years. But comparing her and Barbra- I'd rather listen to Barbra's voice for close to 2-1/2 hours than hers. That doesn't mean I wouldn't have been thrilled to see her in the original run on Broadway ( I do love her in Thoroughly Modern Millie after all) - or Pearl Baily either- but I'm not sure either could have carried a film. It might have been interesting to see an all African American Version with Pearl Bailey like a Carmen Jones version of Hello Dolly.

 

and is at least 20 years too young for the part? I'm sorry, the movie is a mess and her performance is awful.

 

I don't care about her age. If you really want to talk about mismatched characters, Vivian Vance was waaay too young for William Cauley. People remarked about it, and then let it go. As Ethyl explained many times, she was a child bride. So that's even more likely to have happened in the 1890's when the story took place.

 

The character is NOT Crass

 

As for crass- she's a matchmaker in a big musical- shy and retiring she wouldn't be- whether being played Irish or Jewish.

 

 

And Barbra just looked stunning. Her glorious red hair. That scene of her in that gown coming into the Harmonia Gardens restaurant- incredible. The only scene I can think of that was even similar in magnificence was Dolly Parton at the top of the stairs in a fantastic red dress in Best Little ***** House In Texas. Now you want to talk about a lousy film version of a musical (although it had its moments).

 

I defy anyone not to see the scene of 'Put On Your Sunday Clothes' in the film and not feel the joie de vivre of being alive ( yes I know what I said was redundant). It puts a smile on my face even when I'm down. And knowing my depression you must realize how incredible it is if it can do that. The only thing that makes me sad about the scene is I want to be one of them- both as an actual character in the film and as a actor performing ( unfortunately even if I had been old enough- I can't dance- don't ask me). The number in the play is nice but like a pale copy. The song comes to life with the expanded scenery and the cast of 1000's that film allows.

 

It's not my favorite film in the whole wide world- but I love the movie! I love the extravagance. It's what a movie musical should be!!

 

Gman

[+ WilliamM]

 

Having just re-watched part of the movie- I can see your point. Sometimes there are definite Funny Girl-isms. But it doesn't detract much for me at all. And it was only her second movie- after having 1st played Funny Girl. Give her a break. Cary Grant played the same character for most of his film roles forever, and people loved him.

 

The musical is a throwback to the big budget musicals of the 1940's. The music is great, she is in great voice, the costumes are excellent, the colors are lush and supersaturated.

 

I saw a scene with Channing on You Tube- probably from the Tonys. Her singing voice had much less vibrato than it did in her later years. But comparing her and Barbra- I'd rather listen to Barbra's voice for close to 2-1/2 hours than hers. That doesn't mean I wouldn't have been thrilled to see her in the original run on Broadway ( I do love her in Thoroughly Modern Millie after all) - or Pearl Baily either- but I'm not sure either could have carried a film. It might have been interesting to see an all African American Version with Pearl Bailey like a Carmen Jones version of Hello Dolly.

 

 

 

I don't care about her age. If you really want to talk about mismatched characters, Vivian Vance was waaay too young for William Cauley. People remarked about it, and then let it go. As Ethyl explained many times, she was a child bride. So that's even more likely to have happened in the 1890's when the story took place.

 

 

 

As for crass- she's a matchmaker in a big musical- shy and retiring she wouldn't be- whether being played Irish or Jewish.

 

 

And Barbra just looked stunning. Her glorious red hair. That scene of her in that gown coming into the Harmonia Gardens restaurant- incredible. The only scene I can think of that was even similar in magnificence was Dolly Parton at the top of the stairs in a fantastic red dress in Best Little ***** House In Texas. Now you want to talk about a lousy film version of a musical (although it had its moments).

 

I defy anyone not to see the scene of 'Put On Your Sunday Clothes' in the film and not feel the joie de vivre of being alive ( yes I know what I said was redundant). It puts a smile on my face even when I'm down. And knowing my depression you must realize how incredible it is if it can do that. The only thing that makes me sad about the scene is I want to be one of them- both as an actual character in the film and as a actor performing ( unfortunately even if I had been old enough- I can't dance- don't ask me). The number in the play is nice but like a pale copy. The song comes to life with the expanded scenery and the cast of 1000's that film allows.

 

It's not my favorite film in the whole wide world- but I love the movie! I love the extravagance. It's what a movie musical should be!!

 

Gman

 

Maybe it is worth a look, after all. Thanks, Gman.