masc/fem/inbtw

[Guest verymarried]

Everyone's right to express or conceal their sexuality in however manner they so choose should be respected. However, when I am paying handsomely for sexual services, I find myself favoring certain characteristics associated with the word masculine. On the other hand, some of you prefer just the opposite kinds of guys for hire. My shrink would probably attribute it to some unhealthy factor in my upbringing, but I can't seem to get around it. I have hired guys without finding this out and ended up paying them and just kind of talking the whole time. My question is, how do you approach an escort or in my case sometimes - guys who express interest on social sites, about their particular self expression/mannerisms? I hate the idea of insulting people or making them seem less worthy by judging their mannerisms. I feel questions like this are insulting:... "Are you masc, fem or in-between?"... and even more insulting would be breaking off discussions when they answer not to my preference. I think some of you try to speak directly to escorts by phone. I can do this but making private phone conversations on my particular phone system is complicated for me and I try to minimize it. Thanks for suggestions/comments on how to approach this. Again, I feel even bringing the subject up is insulting. We should love each other for what is inside. Unfortunately, I am not proud that I am not wired this way when it comes to sexuality and I can't afford to pay for talk.

[+ azdr0710]

masculinity is very important to me, too, and the mannerism thing is a turn-off to me....I fully respect almost all people and try to be entirely tolerant (and my tolerance level has risen enormously since getting comfortable with this whole situation), but, in private meetings such as we have here, I certainly want to hang out with somebody who I'm comfortable with....

 

sounds like you do need to talk to potential hires live to make sure they'll work for you....as for the phone situation, pay cash for a cheap pay-as-you-go trac-style phone at Target or Walmart, activate it using bogus info, and pay cash for recharges on it....use it ONLY for this stuff....

[+ FreshFluff]

Does hearing the person's voice tell you if he's got the mannerisms you want? If it does, why not call the guy using a disposable phone. Hide it at work if you need to. You can also call from your work phone using a calling card, but the first option is probably safer.

[EZEtoGRU]

Interesting topic......and one close to my heart. The single most important criteria for me when I hire is masculinity. None of the look (Even if they are extremely handsome or very well hung) attracts me at all if the guy isn't uber-manly. After much trial and error, I find I now mostly rely on male strip clubs (USA and Canada) and male escort saunas (Brazil and Spain) to find the sort of guys I like. There is no way to judge someone's masculinity from a Rentboy ad and, frankly, I find asking the question in a phone conversation kind of absurd. In the end, everyone's definition of who/what is "masculine" is different. An escort may think he is masculine but I may not.....so I cannot really rely on an escort's opinion on his own masculinity. I am the one that needs to be satisfied by the companions masculinity and I have set the bar pretty high for that. This is also why sites like Manhunt, Scruff, and Grindr do not work for me at all. No way to judge masculinity.

 

BTW, don't feel strange about your preference for masculine guys. There are plenty of us out there looking for that. I suspect that there is more demand than supply of this sort of companion.

[corndog]

This reminded me of a New York Times Advice Column I just read about the putting down guys for being too flamboyant. The advice (and the comments that follow it) focus on acceptance of others' diversity, and I agree with that, but the comments failed to mention anything about attraction. So, while I think it is important to accept others, regardless of the femininity with which they conduct themselves, I think we're all attracted to different things and if we're attracted exclusively to traits we consider "masculine," there isn't really a question of political correctness.

 

That said, I don't think you'll get very far searching for "masculinity" without breaking it down to more specific characteristics. For you, is it about body type, mode of dress, pitch of voice, personal hygiene, interests/hobbies, dominance/submissiveness, communication style or openness?

 

Some examples:

 

- Does a masculine guy wear pink? I think the right hot guy, with confidence in his body image, absolutely can.

 

- Can a twink be masculine? What if he has a chip on shoulder and kicks ass?

 

- He hates sports but loves musical theater. Is he feminine?

 

- Should a masculine guy pluck his eyebrows or live with a unibrow?

 

- Can a masculine guy talk about his feelings? Cry?

 

If this all makes it seem difficult to pinpoint what makes a guy masculine, I think it is even harder to ask someone to evaluate themselves. I think that most of us believe that we can walk down the street without being pegged as gay, but don't we always wonder?

[rocky]

I've enjoyed this thread and it certainly has been an issue with me but at times I've also felt like a hypocrite. I usually ask for masculine young men and have been visited in my hotel room by guys wearing finger nail polish, purple and orange hair, overweight (as I am) and hitting AARP age, which I am also. When I make a decision to reach out to an escort I am honest about my age, weight, etc and hope to receive the same. So what happens when that doesn't happen?

[+ Gar1eth]

I've enjoyed this thread and it certainly has been an issue with me but at times I've also felt like a hypocrite. I usually ask for masculine young men and have been visited in my hotel room by guys wearing finger nail polish, purple and orange hair, overweight (as I am) and hitting AARP age, which I am also. When I make a decision to reach out to an escort I am honest about my age, weight, etc and hope to receive the same. So what happens when that doesn't happen?

 

I don't mind the AARP age if they are in good shape. In some ways I prefer older guys although I'm not sure if I've ever been with anyone older than I am. I think I've been with someone within 5 years of my age though.

 

Anyone remember Derek Steel

 

http://www.thepictureswarehouse.com/d/303982-1/Derek+Steel+picture+24149.jpg

 

I think he was in his 50's when I was in my early or mid 40's

 

If he had been versatile, I would have been a regular client.

 

Gman

[seeker630]

New York Times Advice Column[/url] I just read about the putting down guys for being too flamboyant. The advice (and the comments that follow it) focus on acceptance of others' diversity, and I agree with that, but the comments failed to mention anything about attraction. So, while I think it is important to accept others, regardless of the femininity with which they conduct themselves, I think we're all attracted to different things and if we're attracted exclusively to traits we consider "masculine," there isn't really a question of political correctness.

 

That said, I don't think you'll get very far searching for "masculinity" without breaking it down to more specific characteristics. For you, is it about body type, mode of dress, pitch of voice, personal hygiene, interests/hobbies, dominance/submissiveness, communication style or openness?

 

Some examples:

 

- Does a masculine guy wear pink? I think the right hot guy, with confidence in his body image, absolutely can.

 

- Can a twink be masculine? What if he has a chip on shoulder and kicks ass?

 

- He hates sports but loves musical theater. Is he feminine?

 

- Should a masculine guy pluck his eyebrows or live with a unibrow?

 

- Can a masculine guy talk about his feelings? Cry?

 

If this all makes it seem difficult to pinpoint what makes a guy masculine, I think it is even harder to ask someone to evaluate themselves. I think that most of us believe that we can walk down the street without being pegged as gay, but don't we always wonder?

 

Good response!

 

I don't see anything wrong with wanting a particular style or presence ('masculine') when it comes to hiring. You're not making a judgment, you're making a selection. No different than wanting a particular body type or enowment - you should get what turns you on.

 

But, as you say, definitions/criteria for 'masculinity' vary from person to person. and the client's judgment may not match the esccort's.

[+ Gar1eth]

Good response!

 

I don't see anything wrong with wanting a particular style or presence ('masculine') when it comes to hiring. You're not making a judgment, you're making a selection. No different than wanting a particular body type or enowment - you should get what turns you on.

 

But, as you say, definitions/criteria for 'masculinity' vary from person to person. and the client's judgment may not match the esccort's.

 

I find I can make an initial assessment from voice. Now this is hard for me to say because I don't have that deep a voice or a visible Adam's apple (it's not because of being chubby in the neck either--I didnt have a visible Adam's apple when I was skinny at 130 pounds either). Now obviously there are probably masculine men who have higher voices--but it's not just whether the voice is high that I'm listening too--it's also the rhythm of the speech and his phrasing. It's interesting how while not all gay males sound stereotypically gay some do---and it's easy to pick up on. If they sound like that on the phone, I don't usually hire them. My question would be what are the percentage of gay males who sound stereotypically gay vs straight males who for some reason have the same type of speech patterns. And if there are more gay males with this speech pattern--what is it that causes it. Is it something innate about being gay in them. Do they realize they are gay when they are young on some unconscious level and somehow learn to pick up more feminine attributes--or is it a more consciously learned set of skills.

 

One thing to remember--I heard this years ago on a Paul Harvey--Now You Know The Rest Of the Story. There was some French King with a younger brother. Their mother never wanted the younger to challenge for the throne. She kept him in dresses and make up all the time he was growing up. When he was grown--he was acknowledged as being very effete. But even though he was very feminine in appearance and actions--he had something like over 20 illegitimate children. So she wasn't able to change his sense of gender attraction totally--on the radio in the 70's they weren't going to talk about if he had male lovers too.

 

Gman

[+ Travis69]

For me "masculine" is in the way he walks across the room, sits in a chair, moves his body. His speech/voice can be some indication but not always. If "masculine' is a requirement for a good session you aren't going to know until you meet the person.

[EZEtoGRU]

For me "masculine" is in the way he walks across the room, sits in a chair, moves his body. His speech/voice can be some indication but not always. If "masculine' is a requirement for a good session you aren't going to know until you meet the person.

 

This.

 

Which is why strippers or sauna guys are the best path to finding masculine guys in my opinion.

[Epigonos]

This is a fascinating topic. As far as I'm concerned I could care less about a guys mannerisms as long as he is built like a brick shit house. I have always been and I'm sure always will be a body fascists. I want my guys built like collegiate gymnasts or bodybuilders.

[EZEtoGRU]

I have always been and I'm sure always will be a body fascists. I want my guys built like collegiate gymnasts or bodybuilders.

I'm the same........except that for me they also have to be utterly manly. So for me, the pool to draw from is so much smaller. I wish I could be satisfied with the muscle Mary's......but they do nothing for me.

[+ Gar1eth]

I'm the same........except that for me they also have to be utterly manly. So for me, the pool to draw from is so much smaller. I wish I could be satisfied with the muscle Mary's......but they do nothing for me.

 

I'm with Eze on this. I like muscular. But they need to be, preferably, masculine. And I don't mean 'ueber' Butch. Really for me- I just want average, normal mannerisms. Example I was in Chicago a few years ago for IML. I was riding in a pick-up with Andrew Justice ( yes, I'm a name dropper ). We saw a group of 3 or 4 males across the street walking up to wait for a light. So everything fine- I was just looking at them because they were male. Well one of them stops for the light, throws his hip out and sticks out his arm 'akimbo'. Now most guys can put their arms akimbo, and it's fine. But they don't throw their hips out. That, for good or ill, is more of feminine pose. Andrew and I both noticed it and commented on it.

 

Now in normal situations, I need to try to learn not to let this bother me. I may have a lot of body language someone else might not like. But if I'm in a hiring situation, someone who has mannerisms like that is not someone I really want.

 

Gman

[whipped guy]

Last year ago I was thrilled that a certain popular escort would be visiting NYC at the same time a friend and I would be in town. I contacted the escort via email, but he said that he really would not get into an S&M scene. However, I was still determined to meet him as he possessed the exact type of muscular physique that I consider to be ideal. I was even determined to get him to change his mind about the S&M thing as I have managed to convince other basically vanilla escorts in the past to give it a try.

 

As things played out, my buddy hired him and since we would be staying at the same hotel I arranged to be in my friend's room when the escort arrived for their session. Well, the escort knocked and I was the one who opened the door. The escort was a bit startled to see two guys there... but then thought that it was going to be a surprise threesome... and he was actually intrigued with the idea. However, I explained that I was not the client, would be leaving, and simply wanted to meet him.

 

Actually I could not get out of there fast enough!!! In five seconds simply based on the walk, the talk, not to mention the clothing I knew that it would never have worked as he was definitely not the masculine type of guy that would have turned me on... and in spite of his considerable physical attributes.

 

Now by this time the escort really thought we had indeed set him up for a surprise threesome... and thought that I was going to return for the second half of the two hour session.

 

However, as I said I could not get out of there fast enough!!! I hate to sound judgmental, prejudiced, narrow-minded, or whatever. Still while he seemed like a decent sort of guy... he was not someone who would totally satisfy me in a sexual manner... and especially when factoring in monetary considerations. Perhaps if he were "in between" it might have worked... I guess we have friends of all persuasions, but would not want to have "relations" with all of them...

[+ azdr0710]

Now obviously there are probably masculine men who have higher voices--but it's not just whether the voice is high that I'm listening too--it's also the rhythm of the speech and his phrasing. It's interesting how while not all gay males sound stereotypically gay some do---and it's easy to pick up on. If they sound like that on the phone, I don't usually hire them.

 

 

good points...."verymarried" can try this out with the new trac-phone I encouraged him to get in an earlier post here!....you don't have to ask the awkward question, "are you masculine?", but just chat the dude up with inane and not-so-inane questions for a couple minutes and see how he responds...and sounds!.....

[buzz]

I certainly remember Derek Steel. I had the privilege and joy of Derek topping me on several occasions. He was a beautiful man inside and out. I miss him.

[+ Gar1eth]

I certainly remember Derek Steel. I had the privilege and joy of Derek topping me on several occasions. He was a beautiful man inside and out. I miss him.

 

Gosh if only he had been versatile. Well if he had been, a lot of his weekends would have been spent visiting me. I understand he was quite endowed. Even as a top--well I'll put it as a friend does--"A large cock is a thing of beauty and a joy forever (in my case to look at more than anything else).

 

G

[JT Brooklyn]

I don't mind the AARP age if they are in good shape. In some ways I prefer older guys although I'm not sure if I've ever been with anyone older than I am. I think I've been with someone within 5 years of my age though.

 

Anyone remember Derek Steel

 

http://www.thepictureswarehouse.com/d/303982-1/Derek+Steel+picture+24149.jpg

 

I think he was in his 50's when I was in my early or mid 40's

 

If he had been versatile, I would have been a regular client.

 

Gman

 

I think the "Big Mature Hunk" is still Working it somewhere! I've always gone the "Masculine Only Route" which doesn't mean put on some leather either that never works at least not for ME! "To Each His Own" on this topic!

[Traveler North]

I prefer masculine guys but I did see a young guy who was in between for several years. He was a sweetheart and a great kisser and bottom. Really miss him since he retired.