How much is it okay to discuss before meeting?

[diggme23]

I always get nervous when I contact an escort and he wants to know exact details of what I want before we meet. I know that sounds counter productive, but I have a friend who was caught in a sting, and it has left me hesitant to discuss specific things before meeting.

 

He is a good friend and coworker. He was going through a nasty divorce, and was on a business trip to Phoenix. He figured what the hell, and looked up a female escort from what was suppose to be a reputable sight. At first, because he was hesitant, he contacted her through an anonymous e mail account he had set up through Yahoo. They talked back and forth a few times, discussing what he was into. Apparently the line about payment for time only was even mentioned, and sex was the result of two consenting adults. They had a phone conversation once he felt comfortable enough, and set up a date. When he arrived it was a police internet task force waiting for him. He didn't even need to be caught paying her, he just needed to be the one who showed up.

 

To make matters worse, right before the scheduled meet time, she had apparently sent an e mail claiming she hadn't been completely honest, that she was underage, and asking if that was okay. My friend says he was already on the way to meet her, and never got that e mail. The task force was never able to prove that he got that e mail, and his lawyer did a great job of showing how with his travel time vs. the time it was sent, and because he didn't have a smart phone, that he couldn't have possibly gotten that e mail, but they still charged him with it.

 

The end result was he won the charges against him propositioning a minor, but he was still put on the sexual predator list, and has to register as one everywhere he goes. He lost the charges for hiring a prostitute. Even though the line had been used about money for time only, and even though the prostitute had never existed, but been a police task force all along, they determined that specific sexual acts had been clearly discussed, and a price was clearly discussed, and the intent was clearly obvious which negated any other disclaimers. They had all his e-mails, and his phone call recorded and there as evidence against him.

 

The end result: What was suppose to be a week long business trip ended up being over a year spent in Phoenix, half of that time spent in jail, the rest stuck there waiting for the next court date. Over 200k in legal fees and fines. He lost everything in the divorce, including custody of his two kids, the prostitution case being used against him, and he couldn't appear anyways because he was in jail. He was added to the sexual predator list, which resulted in automatically being kicked out of his union. He was obviously fired from his job back in the beginning of the whole mess as well. It is now a few years later, and he is still stuck in phoenix dealing with the aftermath, working as a mechanic because that's the only job he could find that would hire him.

 

Naturally having seen a friend go through this, I get very reluctant about who I hire. I basically try to hire only escorts I've seen well reviewed on this site. Even then, I don't want to discuss anything beforehand. I know what the escort will and won't do based on their previous reviews and their add. I usually confirm their rates, and then say for the first date I would like something simple and legal, like a massage. Then once we've actually met and are obviously not law enforcement, I feel safer to discuss other things I am into, but even then, nothing in writing.

 

Does this sound over paranoid? I've tried this route with many escorts, and I find that about 50% have issues with it. I will tell them that simply put, for our first meeting, I just want a simple plain massage, and half the time I get a response that the escort doesn't really do massages, but let them know if there's anything spicier I'm into. Some escorts play the role perfectly, they get that I don't want to discuss anything illegal. They agree that a massage would be great. I show up and a massage starts, followed by a quick touch or kiss, something law enforcement would never do, and then they ask what I really want to do.

?

Is there any kind of unspoken protocol I should know about between escorts and clients when the client doesn't want to discuss anything incriminating? Or am I handling it well already?

[+ azdr0710]

very sorry to hear about your friend.....what a depressing, sad story....

 

I do think stings (against clients) are much more aimed at those patronizing female escorts because of great (and probably justified) concern about the women being abused, controlled by a pimp, or involved in human trafficking....

 

funny story: I met with an escort for the first time once and was full of first-time-meet jitters thinking he was a cop...I tried to make small talk and asked if he does this much (yeah, I was a bit nervous!)....he answered, "uh, maybe"....I could tell he thought I was an undercover cop because of my question and it came to within about one second of him calling off the meet, I think...I very quickly jumped on his dick with my mouth to end any of that speculation by him and all was well afterwards....we had several more successful meets, thank god, as he was great.....

 

your concerns are very valid and this is a great topic to periodically go over.....always communicate your concerns from the beginning....be honest and forthright....it sometimes is difficult to do, but never mention money at all in the same communication as discussion of hoped-for "acts" at the meeting....if you plan a meeting with one of the well-known, well-reviewed guys here, you won't have anything to worry about at all, of course....and never mention money at the meet....arrange ahead of time how payment will occur (usually an envelope in plain view, but not pointed out)....you may know most of this already, I know

 

your mention of varying responses from escorts to doing just a massage at first is very logical...the sophisticated ones will get it right away....others want a wam-bam session, get paid, and get out and will marvel at all the coy discussion that seems unnecessary to them....some escorts may think you're trying to get a lower "massage" rate out of them and, thus, may not be interested.....

 

lots to discuss here....other will chime in

[Zapped]

The "payment is for time only" disclaimer doesn't hold up in court, obviously, if there's other evidence that sexual services were expected. I'm so sorry for what happened to your friend!

 

I once met with an escort who said he was also a reserve sheriff. He was quite antsy about protocols. We started with a massage, then at some point he asked me if I was satisfied with the massage, I said I was, and we agreed that his paid time was over. Then we had our playtime. He seemed convinced that this worked and protected him. Whether it would protect a client in a sting, I don't know.

 

Years before, I had talked to an escort on the phone who coached me through using euphemisms to avoid anything too explicit. It seemed a bit silly to me, but it gives me an idea now.

 

You could say, "I would never want to suggest on the phone, as I'm sure you wouldn't, that I was interested in exchanging money for sex. I'm only looking to pay for a massage. If we were ever to see each other socially, it happens that I like . . . " and use as many code words as possible. "But I'm only looking to pay for a massage." If someone tries to press you for more details, well, danger Will Robinson! (Whether this would actually protect you in a sting, I don't know, because I'm not a lawyer.)

 

Back when gay.com was popular, there'd occasionally be someone making it clear he was for hire. I remember one wanting to quote me prices for what I wanted to do, and that just reeked of being a sting to me.

 

Well-reviewed guys are the safest.

[Xander]

If I am explicit in trying to change the topic (as zapped referenced above) I am just as well making note that I am acknowledging its presence. If a question isn't asked in a certain manner it is ignored. If the client doesn't understand why it is ignored, I explain to them why it was ignored. I believe it is best handled this way.

 

Also -- very sorry to hear about your friend. That sucks.

[Walker1]

Very sad. Sometimes I wonder if living in Russia would give us more freedom than here. Best to hire reviewd escorts- at least you know they are not armed thugs-err cops. Although I guess escorts don't have that luxury.

[Zapped]

A very interesting thing is that concerns about women being abused, controlled by a pimp, or involved in human trafficking was exactly the reason why prostitution was legalized in the Netherlands. That way these side-effects can be better fought. (Sometimes there are other and better solutions to problems than simply making certain activities illegal.)

 

If this country (the USA) had more sensible and pragmatic people voting for sensible and pragmatic legislators, we'd do the same thing. But this country is full of religious lunatics, and politicians afraid of being attacked by them. Imagine running on a pro-gun control, pro-pot, and pro-legalizing prostitution platform!

[KMEM]

Imagine never being elected.

 

Best regards,

KMEM

[Frequentflier]

A question to whomever knows the answer. The first post said that the friend is now a registered sex offender yet the person arrested wasn't convicted of the charge involving a minor. If someone is arrested for making a deal and meeting with an escort (male or female) I thought the charge was a misdemeanors and the person isn't considered a sex offender (generally an act against someone's will, a minor, etc).