Gay vs Bi

[rguer]

What's the marketing Angola behind some guys advertising themselves as gay in one ad and as bi in another?

 

Is "bi" thought to be less threatening to some market segment?

[rguer]

Oops, that's what happens when you use autocomplete and don't proofread. That should be "What's the marketing angle?"

[Electra 225]

Bi vs. Gay

 

I haven't the foggiest idea why an escort, marketing himself to the gay community (or at least to those potential clients who want to have a man-to-man encounter on whaterver physical level) would want to post that they are "bi" in their advertisements. To me, that is more information than I want to know or care to know. Even if it is pure fantasy on my part, I want to "believe" that everyone I hire is as gay as a goose. I don't want to know that their you-know-what has been in a you-know-what. When I see that an escort/provider lists "bi" in their advertisement, I always--even if they were as hot as a two dollar bill at a Mexican ***** house--move on to someone that will fulfill my fantasy. After all, I am the one paying for the fantasy. Just one opinion, naturally.

[Epigonos]

Electra 225 I agree completely. I'm NOT bi and therefore I don't want to play with guys who identify themselves as such.

[EZEtoGRU]

This is a topic that arises from time to time....well the issue of gay versus bi versus straight male escorts. Unfortunately, many escorts will vary the description of their sexuality depending on the website and what will bring in the most clients. Of the guys that advertise on rentboy, it seems that 20-30% of them categorize themselves as "bi"....which I don't believe for a minute.

 

I think the escorts put down whatever they think will being the most customers rather than what they really are. I usually assume most the guys that classify themselves as "bi" are actually gay.

[seeker630]

This is a topic that arises from time to time....well the issue of gay versus bi versus straight male escorts. Unfortunately, many escorts will vary the description of their sexuality depending on the website and what will bring in the most clients. Of the guys that advertise on rentboy, it seems that 20-30% of them categorize themselves as "bi"....which I don't believe for a minute.

 

I think the escorts put down whatever they think will being the most customers rather than what they really are. I usually assume most the guys that classify themselves as "bi" are actually gay.

 

I suspect you're right - and that probably means that some bi guys advertise as gay, too.

[jjkrkwood]

To some clients the label Bi makes the escort SEEM less GAY and more acceptable, especially if that client is attracted to "str8 actting" guys. Or if that client doesnt label or consider HIMSELF gay, it justifies his actions with the escort (well HE's not Gay either) Its really just a preference and perception kinda thing I think ? It Feeds the Fantasy !

[Steven_Draker]

To some clients the label Bi makes the escort SEEM less GAY and more acceptable

 

To others "Bi" means NOT INTERACTIVE AT ALL ... just lay there and 'look pretty'.

[seeker630]

To some clients the label Bi makes the escort SEEM less GAY and more acceptable, especially if that client is attracted to "str8 actting" guys. Or if that client doesnt label or consider HIMSELF gay, it justifies his actions with the escort (well HE's not Gay either) Its really just a preference and perception kinda thing I think ? It Feeds the Fantasy !

 

To others "Bi" means NOT INTERACTIVE AT ALL ... just lay there and 'look pretty'.

[/color]

 

Both statements are true - as clients, we often make assumptions based on personal preferences and prior experiences. A self-applied descriptor that attracts some clients will repel others. Not one of the labels (bi, gay, straight) assures a fulfilling experience, nor can we count on ever really knowing the truth of the label.

[jjkrkwood]

Both statements are true - as clients, we often make assumptions based on personal preferences and prior experiences. A self-applied descriptor that attracts some clients will repel others. Not one of the labels (bi, gay, straight) assures [/b]a fulfilling experience, nor can we count on ever really knowing the truth of the label.[/QUOTE]

 

Do we REALLY want/need to know ? I thought that for most, the attraction in hiring an escort was the anonymity and Fantasy ?

[seeker630]

Both statements are true - as clients, we often make assumptions based on personal preferences and prior experiences. A self-applied descriptor that attracts some clients will repel others. Not one of the labels (bi, gay, straight) assures [/b]a fulfilling experience, nor can we count on ever really knowing the truth of the label.[/QUOTE]

 

Do we REALLY want/need to know ? I thought that for most, the attraction in hiring an escort was the anonymity and Fantasy ?

 

JJK, I agree with you. What's important to ME is how the escort performs with me (although it IS important to me that I feel the escort is enjoying himself too.) I will, however, probably ask more questions of a guy who identifies himself as bi or straight, to ensure that I don't feel like he's doing something he really doesn't want to, and some people need a particular label to feed their fantasy.

[KMEM]

Isn't part of the fantasy the idea that one might not be paying for sex, merely buying dinner or taking a friend to a concert, etc.? If the person hired is straight or bi (whatever that really is), doesn't that mean by definition it is "gay for pay"? Doesn't do anything for me.

 

BTW, how gay is a goose? Most of the ones I see seem to reproduce without any "difficulty" so, are they "bi" rather than gay?

 

Best regards,

KMEM

[jjkrkwood]

Isn't part of the fantasy the idea that one might not be paying for sex, merely buying dinner or taking a friend to a concert, etc.? If the person hired is straight or bi (whatever that really is), doesn't that mean by definition it is "gay for pay"? Doesn't do anything for me.

 

BTW, how gay is a goose? Most of the ones I see seem to reproduce without any "difficulty" so, are they "bi" rather than gay?

 

Best regards,

KMEM

 

If you asked 1 million people their motivations behind having sex, or their sexual Fantasies, I am sure you could probably get close to 1 million DIFFERENT answers. Who knows WHY a person is attracted to something or WHAT is turning them on. ? Its all in the hidden recesses of the mind. Gay for Pay, str8, Bi, this, that all doesnt matter to me. I know what I want physically when I hire and really dont care what label is on the package. My focus is a slammin HOT body and a big cock and beautiful ass. Shallow YES, but definite. And if I could get that kind of guy without paying, it would be a no brainer, I wouldnt have to hire.

[+ sam.fitzpatrick]

OK - I'll jump on the grenade and offer a contrary opinion.

 

When I first started to explore my sexuality in my mid-40s, I was not all that confident in taking that first step. Hiring an escort for that first experience who advertised as bi was easier than hiring a gay escort. Now that I myself am a little more experienced, I agree that the labels are not important.

 

But for other first-time clients in situations like I was in the not distant past, it may make the difference.

[leigh.bess.toad]

I guess to me, it depends on what the escort is trying to convey by saying bi. That involves some reading between the lines sometimes. Sometimes it means they may be less than active participants in everything.

 

However, sometimes they list it as bi because they truly are bi. One of the best examples is the man I just took to PS weekend -- the Legendary Dave. Dave is truly bi-sexual. He is as involved with every aspect of sex with men as any gay escort I have ever encountered. But he also has female clients. He has one of only several reviews on the forum written by a woman. And the fact that a woman was motivated enough to write a review for him on a website for gay escorts speaks to how he interacts with women as well.

 

Sometimes bi may be shorthand for less interactive. But not always.

[Dave]

what is INSULTING? first let me show you:

 

I haven't the foggiest idea why an escort, marketing himself to the gay community (or at least to those potential clients who want to have a man-to-man encounter on whaterver physical level) would want to post that they are "bi" in their advertisements.

INSULTING

 

I don't want to know that their you-know-what has been in a you-know-what.

INSULTING

 

When I see that an escort/provider lists "bi" in their advertisement, I always--even if they were as hot as a two dollar bill at a Mexican ***** house--move on

INSULTING(and racist, and classist...)

 

I'm NOT bi and therefore I don't want to play with guys who identify themselves as such.

INSULTING

Of the guys that advertise on rentboy, it seems that 20-30% of them categorize themselves as "bi"....which I don't believe for a minute.

INSULTING

I think the escorts put down whatever they think will being the most customers rather than what they really are.

INSULTING

I usually assume most of the guys that classify themselves as "bi" are actually gay.

INSULTING

If the person hired is straight or bi (whatever that really is), doesn't that mean by definition it is "gay for pay"?

INSULTING

 

 

if you don’t yet see how the above statements are INSULTING, let me replace the words a bit. how do you feel reading these:

 

I haven't the foggiest idea why you would want to post that you are "gay" in your advertisements.

 

I don't want to know that your penis has been in another man’s asshole.

 

When I see that you list yourself as "gay" in your advertisement, I move on.

 

I'm NOT gay and therefore I don't want to play with guys who identify themselves as such.

 

20-30% of you categorize yourselves as "gay"....which I don't believe for a minute.

 

I usually assume most of you that classify yourselves as "gay" are actually straight.

 

If you are gay (whatever that really is)

... DO I REALLY EVEN NEED TO FINISH THIS SENTENCE?

 

 

so many of you men who identify as gay have worked so hard with your families, your circle of friends, your communities, and your governments - to get those close minded people to come to an acceptance of yourself as a gay man. and that’s a great thing. yet when i read stuff like this, i am truly disheartened. yeah, i’m a bisexual man. yeah, i’m out about it, completely. and yeah, it’s not always easy being out about it.

 

why? because SOME people are unwilling to accept me for what i am. SOME people doubt me, no matter what i say about my sexual orientation. SOME people tell me i’m wrong. SOME people are unnerved by my orientation.

does this sound familiar?

 

come on guys - don’t force me into some closet. let me advertise truthfully, and accept MY definition of myself just as i accept yours - or anyones. don’t assume guys are listing themselves as bi for marketing purposes. some men who are escorts are on their own journey. and others know exactly who they are - just like you know who you are.

 

sexuality is vast, fluid, and not always so black and white.

it’s a much bigger world than you might imagine.

give a little leeway here. be a little more open.

and a little more accepting.

 

(btw - thank you, Lee, for what you wrote in the above post. it’s nice to be taken for what i am.)

[TruthBTold]

I guess you may find that to decide to put the appellation of "bi" on a site that markets men to men to raise a red flag to be insulting. I am not saying that it is wrong all the time, but the person becomes the "Mitt Romney" of my choices. He'd say just about anything to get my business. I like jjkrkwood's way of putting it, It's the body, baby. It's always the body, baby (well maybe the mind a little bit.)

[Dave]

i'm chuckling here... i wouldn't "say just about anything" to get your business. like my brothers who are stellar in this industry, top quality escorts are here to give - but they don't sell their souls.

 

on the other hand, i guess you don't see my point here. for me, the insulting part of this thread is that some of you are saying escorts who indicate they're bi are being dishonest, using their orientation for marketing purposes, and now - gasp - are like Mitt Romney. jeez, the insults are getting worse

[EZEtoGRU]

Dave,

I take full ownership of the statements that I made and you quoted.......and I stand by them. I'm sorry if you were offended as that was not the intention, but I believe my comments to be accurate (well at least from my perspective).......I will further explain here. First some background.

 

Firstly, I do believe in bisexuality. I know it exists as I have travelled to Brazil many times and I see how well some of those guys perform with gay customers yet they have wives/girlfriends/children and are perfectly happy at home. I also have some experience in the "swinger" scene in the US and I see how some men can move from being with a woman to being with a man with no difficulty and they appear to enjoy both equally and unashamedly. So bisexuality does exist as far as I am concerned.

 

Having said the above, let's get back to the male escort scenario, rentboy, and quoted my comments:

 

Of the guys that advertise on rentboy, it seems that 20-30% of them categorize themselves as "bi"....which I don't believe for a minute.

Let's use today's numbers from Rentboy which I just looked up. There are 1671 male escorts advertising in the US on rentboy today and 560 (33.5%) of them identify themselves as "bisexual". Do any of us believe that number? 33% of the male escorts that advertise on rentboy in the US are active bisexuals?? I for one do not believe it. I think some guys that are "gay" and some that are "straight" use the "bisexual" label as they believe it will get them more customers. Therefore, in my view, many of the guys are misrepresenting themselves. This is unfortunate for the honest advertisers like yourself.

 

I think the escorts put down whatever they think will being the most customers rather than what they really are.

Similar to the first point. Many Rentboy advertisers will vary their description based on what they feel will bring in the most customers rather than indicating a truthful representation. Do all guys do this? No. But many do IMHO. I seem to remember one escort who posts on daddy's started a thread once asking for input on what he should put in his ad for "position". As I recall, he was enquiring as to whether he should put "Top", "Bottom" , or "versatile" so that he could attract they largest possible number of customers. My suggestion to him on the thread was to list the truth.....whatever that was. I found his question strange and an indication of someone who was willing to fudge his description in the interest of getting more business. Again, I'm sorry if you took my comment offensively. You (and some other escorts that post on daddy's) are likely among the minority of escort advertiser that do not mis-represent themselves.....and you all are to be commended for being honest.

 

I usually assume most of the guys that classify themselves as "bi" are actually gay.

Since I assume many of the guys that identify themselves as "bi" on Rentboy, are in fact not "bi" and since rentboy is an escort site for homosexual men, I have to assume that most of the"bi" escorts are in fact "gay".....although some are likely "str8" as well. I'm not sure what other conclusion one can reach.

 

The reality is that most customers use a vetting process when reviewing ads in order to narrow down to a short list. Each of us is unique/individual and different things are important in choosing an escort. What works well for me will not work well for the next client and vice versa. Some guys want someone that has an enormous cock. Others want a beautiful ass. Others must have a model-like face. Others want a macho guy and others a fem. Some want black dudes. Others white. Others Latino. Some of us need a combination of the various factors to make it work. What we all use as a guide it the description used in the escort webside or in reviews.

 

For me, the most important quality in someone I am going to hire is his masculinity. How does one judge "masculinity" from an ad? Very difficult. I have learned through trial and error that I have the best chance at finding very masculine guys if I hire someone that is bi/str8 and someone that is a strict top (ie does not bottom). Does that mean I miss out on some gay escorts and/or some versatile guys that would work for me? Undoubtedly yes......but I also avoid many encounters that would not work. Anyway, I do not know a better way to go about finding a compatible escort online than the process I use. For this reason, the descriptors that escorts use on websites such as Rentboy are really important and I wish everyone were just honest with what they put in their ad.

 

I don't apologize for actively not seeking out "gay" escorts. In the same way, many clients will not hire a "straight" or "bisexual" escort. That is fine also. We have to go with what works for each of us.

 

In closing Dave, I'm sorry you took offense from some of my comments and for that I do apologize to you. I do not apologize for having made the comments to begin with and I hope, at a minimum, you now have a better understanding of why I said them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

what is INSULTING? first let me show you:

 

 

Of the guys that advertise on rentboy, it seems that 20-30% of them categorize themselves as "bi"....which I don't believe for a minute.

[/color]INSULTING

I think the escorts put down whatever they think will being the most customers rather than what they really are.

INSULTING

I usually assume most of the guys that classify themselves as "bi" are actually gay.

INSULTING

 

[/i]so many of you men who identify as gay have worked so hard with your families, your circle of friends, your communities, and your governments - to get those close minded people to come to an acceptance of yourself as a gay man. and that’s a great thing. yet when i read stuff like this, i am truly disheartened. yeah, i’m a bisexual man. yeah, i’m out about it, completely. and yeah, it’s not always easy being out about it.

 

why? because SOME people are unwilling to accept me for what i am. SOME people doubt me, no matter what i say about my sexual orientation. SOME people tell me i’m wrong. SOME people are unnerved by my orientation.

does this sound familiar?

 

come on guys - don’t force me into some closet. let me advertise truthfully, and accept MY definition of myself just as i accept yours - or anyones. don’t assume guys are listing themselves as bi for marketing purposes. some men who are escorts are on their own journey. and others know exactly who they are - just like you know who you are.

 

sexuality is vast, fluid, and not always so black and white.

it’s a much bigger world than you might imagine.

give a little leeway here. be a little more open.

and a little more accepting.

 

[corndog]

I think that this conversation is more about the labels than the sexual preferences. Our culture attaches so much baggage to the words we use to define sexual orientation. Sometimes, people feel like describing themselves as "gay" associates them with the "gay scene," which is more of a subculture than a sexual orientation. Likewise, we unfortunately sometimes also believe that the label "bisexual" represents indecision, or some stage of the coming out process. On rentboy, it seems like "Straight" is shorthand for "masculine."

 

I've often been puzzled by men I meet that describe themselves as "straight" but clearly enjoy the affection, adoration and sex with men. In some of these cases, I'm convinced that they use the term "straight" with honesty and good intent, even though they are exactly what I would call "bisexual."

 

And, as long as we're talking about labels being insulting, how about "straight-acting?" Although I've become a little desensitized to the term, its use is blatantly offensive all gay men who aren't effeminate.

[jjkrkwood]

I think that this conversation is more about the labels than the sexual preferences. Our culture attaches so much baggage to the words we use to define sexual orientation. Sometimes, people feel like describing themselves as "gay" associates them with the "gay scene," which is more of a subculture than a sexual orientation. Likewise, we unfortunately sometimes also believe that the label "bisexual" represents indecision, or some stage of the coming out process. On rentboy, it seems like "Straight" is shorthand for "masculine."

 

I've often been puzzled by men I meet that describe themselves as "straight" but clearly enjoy the affection, adoration and sex with men. In some of these cases, I'm convinced that they use the term "straight" with honesty and good intent, even though they are exactly what I would call "bisexual."

 

And, as long as we're talking about labels being insulting, how about "straight-acting?" Although I've become a little desensitized to the term, its use is blatantly offensive all gay men who aren't effeminate.

 

 

 

Before we even know how a persons "labels" themselves, we are attracted to a' "look". Often that "look" isnt even congruous to the label they assign themselves. If 2 people find chemistry with each other, that is what should drive the interraction. However, some people ARE hung-up on labels and their implications, which basically feeds their Fantasy need...

The gay man that fantasizes seducing a str8 guy, or the closeted guy that thinks its OK to have sex with a Bi dude, because it makes him LESS gay.... The only thing I WONT have a party to is "married" or "partnered". I wouldnt want my partner cheating on me, and therefore wouldnt be a factor in another persons cheating. However, you dont always know, but if I do, its NO go...